AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Skreech Verminking]

So a friend of mine asked me if I had time 

to play against his flesh eater courts again.

I accepted his offer/challenge, knowing very well that he his unbeaten and one of our top tournament players in our country.

So yeah I was thinking a lot lately, trying to basically strip his army apart and  to find it’s weaknesses.

I think the problem many armies have against flesh eaters court is the attack first rule they basically have.

terrorgheist will slay units with 40 or less wounds in one turn, doesn’t matter what you do.

Still we skaven have a rather good counter against the once elvish always strike first rule.

With Death frenzy, the dreaded version, high damage shooting and movement shenanigans, we can basically outmaneuver those armies with a bit of cunning gameplay.

So basically I came up with 2lists.

the first one:

Heroes:600p

1Grey seer:120p(Skitterleap)

1Grey seer:120p(deathfrenzy)

our very overpowered Verminlord Warpseer:260p

And a crazy warlock bombardier:100p(deranged inventor, mmmwp, General, vigordust injector)

Battleline:

3x20clanrats:360p(I don’t really enjoy playing with almost no meathsields, but for cost efficiencies it is basically better then 120clanrats against 2terrorgheists)

others:

6Stormfiends:520p

(2rattling guns, 2doomflayer gauntlets, 2poisoned Wind gauntlets(?))

40Plague monks:240p

1 warplightning cannon:180p

endless spells:100p

1warplightning vortex

Total: exactly 2000p

I think that probably most of you guys probably already see the Well very clear combination and what kind of expectation I have for the list (still if there is anything unclear, just ask and I’ll happily answer your question)

 

my second list is well is a bit more tricksy and shows the cunning tricks we had to bring up in the past years when a battletome for our beloved skaven was just a dream, unlikely to have come true (thankfully it went differently).

Heroes:700p

1Grey seer:120p(deathfrenzy)

1Grey seer:120p(Skitterleap)

1Verminlord Warbringer:260p

1Warlock bombardier:100p(General, deranged inventor, mmmwp, vigordust injector)

1Clawlord:100p(brutal fury, sword of judgement (realm artefact ulgu)

Battleline:380p

2x20Clanrats:240p

1x10Stormvermins:140p

others:3Stormfiends:260p

40plague monks:240p

Battaillons:180p

Claw-horde:180p

endless spells:

Warplightning vortex:100p

1chromatic cogs:80p

 1malevolent maelstrom:10p

 

So yeah ever heard about the corruptor/ sword of judgement/Skitterleap bomb.

yeha it’s basically a nightmare for every heroes, that doesn’t attack first and can kill it with guarantee.

no I guess most of you are asking yourself of why I instead took a clawlord (most of you might have already noticed the combination)

So ever had trouble killing a ghoul king on terrorgheist in one round of combat, well the I present to you the mighty clawlord bomb.

basically what you do is take him buff him with dreaded and the normal deathfrenzy (meaning if he dies (which basically will happen) you’ll be able to pile in and attack twice)

and basically inject him with a vigor-filling warpstone dust.

with all of that done either Skitterleap him straight forward into one of those monsters and charge him with the extra plus 2to the role thanks to cogs (plus 3 if we count the injector as well)

pop the brutal fury warlord trait and boom that terrorgheist just got killed by its prey.

if your uncertain about your roles, you could even spend your command points for gnash gnaw on your bones, which basically grants you 2extra attack (thanks to double deathfrenzy) and the command ability of the Warbringer if in range. (Or basically spend it for the new reroll 1s to hit command ability)

min the end you’ll be making 11 attacks twice while hitting on 2s with retooling 1s and hits of 5 and 6doing d6mortal wounds each.

And now comes the best part ,

Does 600p worth of buffs are also very effective on other units like plague monks, Stormfiends, and in a dire situations even some of your other heroes can be sacrificed for the greater good 

[5kaven5lave]

Not necessarily related to your list but I imagine that lots of WLCs and Jezzails protected behind 2 or more small screens of Clanrats positioned 4’’ in front of each other to prevent the double pile-in would get a FEC player sweating at the armpits. Anything in that 20’’-30’’ killzone is fully dead, even an AGKoT. 

[Skreech Verminking]

16 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Not necessarily related to your list but I imagine that lots of WLCs and Jezzails protected behind 2 or more small screens of Clanrats positioned 4’’ in front of each other to prevent the double pile-in would get a FEC player sweating at the armpits. Anything in that 20’’-30’’ killzone is fully dead, even an AGKoT. 

That sounds good sadly I don’t own 9 or more jezzails.

I just barley have 6.

But I’ll keep it in mind thanks

[Gwendar]

3 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

That sounds good sadly I don’t own 9 or more jezzails.

I just barley have 6.

But I’ll keep it in mind thanks

Since I play FeC as well, yeah your best bet is typically shooting\magic. Locking down that alpha-strike army with WLV\Shackles works well when combined with 1-2 turns of shooting. As you know, I prefer Jezzails but 2 WLC's with 1-2 Engineers is a good substitute to 9-12 Jezzails. Between the two, I'm going with the 1st list as preference.

Of course, you will need those screens.. 40 Clanrats can hold out against Ghouls, but will likely get munched by the TG's.. if you have -1 to hit, it will hurt his output but the 6 MW's per unmodified 6 on the bite is where the damage really comes from overall. My best lists with FeC are 1-2 TG's backed with 60 Ghouls, not to mention the additional 40 Ghouls or 6-9 Knights that I can summon in on top of that with my 2 Archregents. I honestly think it's best played defensively to remove the large threats and then go all in to remove his heroes\Ghouls.. but you will really need to get this done quickly before the game get's too far in. There's something to be said about 1-2 Death Frenzied Monks\Stormvermin getting into their face as well if you prefer that route.

[Skarn]

6 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

basically what you do is take him buff him with dreaded and the normal deathfrenzy (meaning if he dies (which basically will happen) you’ll be able to pile in and attack twice)

As I recall normal death frenzy cant be cast on Heroes, meaning only dreaded would be in effect or am I missing something?

[Skreech Verminking]

5 minutes ago, Skarn said:

As I recall normal death frenzy cant be cast on Heroes, meaning only dreaded would be in effect or am I missing something?

Yep your right! (Must have most it Reading through the Book)

Well then I guess I’ll be going the plague monks/magic/shooting route.

Edited June 24, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Darkhan]

On 6/23/2019 at 5:14 AM, Gwendar said:

Alright everyone, monthly tourneys over and I have my 2 games up on my batrep blog. Feel free to give any feedback or comments either on the blog post or here (probably the latter in case there's any discussion of list usage\questions\etc. so everyone can see).

It was a good time minus one not-so-great-guy but... that's all covered below. I love using the magic heavy list (this was an altered version of the BOBO 2nd place list) and plan to do it again, barring no crazy changes that make it impossible to still use effectively. Thanks everyone!
 

 

 

Read the report!

Was wondering how you were able to recast WLV so often, did you just roll like a god on the dispell? You would need a 9+? Or did you have dispell bonuses from something.

Thx!

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, Darkhan said:

 

Read the report!

Was wondering how you were able to recast WLV so often, did you just roll like a god on the dispell? You would need a 9+? Or did you have dispell bonuses from something.

Thx!

Oh I was absolutely getting lucky as hell with the dispells. I typically use the Warpseer to do it in case I need to pop Master of Magic.. but I don't expect to roll like that for some time as I think I used up all my luck from these 2 games (or maybe my Skaven dice have just missed me since they roll horrifically with my FeC).

Normally I try to place it where I think it can remain most of the game, but for these 2 I often found that I needed to shift it and I took the risk.. had I not been able to shift it onto those Hearthguard it would've hampered me a little more.. but Thanquol still would've disintegrated them regardless.

[Cosmicsheep]

Quick question on gnawholes. If a unit is in combat but within 6” of a gnawhole , would moving through the gnawhole count as a retreat?

Edited June 24, 2019 by Cosmicsheep

[Coyote]

My GHB 19 Pitched Battles Profile has a misprint?

It has the points for Stormvermin at 140/500.

That can’t be right.  140 for 10 / 500 for 40,  

[Baron Wastelands]

41 minutes ago, Coyote said:

My GHB 19 Pitched Battles Profile has a misprint?

It has the points for Stormvermin at 140/500.

That can’t be right.  140 for 10 / 500 for 40,  

That is right. You’re getting a 60 pt discount for taking a max sized unit of 40 (since 4x140=560pts)

[Coyote]

It’s the same misprint for several years now.  

[Baron Wastelands]

2 minutes ago, Coyote said:

It’s the same misprint for several years now.  

Ah well. That I can’t help with 😉

[Gwendar]

2 hours ago, Cosmicsheep said:

Quick question on gnawholes. If a unit is in combat but within 6” of a gnawhole , would moving through the gnawhole count as a retreat?

I would say no as you're removing it and placing it elsewhere... sort of like a Seraphons teleport or Skitterleap, although those happen in Hero Phase.

A retreat is you making a normal move with the unit to be at least outside of 3" while the Gnawhole is classed more as a teleport and is something that happens at the start of the movement phase and is a remove + setup rather than a normal move.

[Skreech Verminking]

8 hours ago, Coyote said:

It’s the same misprint for several years now.  

Well let’s hope then they haven’t misprinted, the misprint again.

edit: because I really want my Stormvermins cheaper.

Edited June 25, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Verminlord]

Feels silly to ask but you can move over/onto gnawholes correct? And a hero or unit standing wholly within the the middle of one would receive cover?

[Skreech Verminking]

2 minutes ago, Verminlord said:

Feels silly to ask but you can move over/onto gnawholes correct? And a hero or unit standing wholly within the the middle of one would receive cover?

I would have said yes.

[Cosmicsheep]

I believe so yes, the warscroll even states that it is a an obstacle (meaning it provides cover) in the same way as walls and fences are.

[TimM85]

Skaven Warpstone Rules

Is there any official ruling on when Skaven can use their warp stone,

As the rule reads during the phase, now I can understand taking a warp stone after failing a cast roll but taking one after rolling to hit and rolling to wound to increase damage just seems plain wrong and makes no viable sense even in a fantasy land, for example a bullet has fired its wounded now i'm gonna munch this stone to make it stronger.

any official ruling or any T/Os that have ruled on this would be a fantastic help

[Skreech Verminking]

43 minutes ago, TimM85 said:

Skaven Warpstone Rules

Is there any official ruling on when Skaven can use their warp stone,

As the rule reads during the phase, now I can understand taking a warp stone after failing a cast roll but taking one after rolling to hit and rolling to wound to increase damage just seems plain wrong and makes no viable sense even in a fantasy land, for example a bullet has fired its wounded now i'm gonna munch this stone to make it stronger.

any official ruling or any T/Os that have ruled on this would be a fantastic help

Well just had another look.

And as you described it seems like it is possible to do that.

and no there isn’t an faq that changed/cleared this rule (yet).

[frostfire]

How do you usually build a 1K skaven list for a new player?

Haven't played 1k a lot. Competitive lists would be awesome.

Edited June 27, 2019 by frostfire

[KingOfSuede]

2 hours ago, frostfire said:

How do you usually build a 1K skaven list for a new player?

Haven't played 1k a lot. Competitive lists would be awesome.

In my limited experience, at least until the point updates:

40 x Clanrats

20 x Clanrats

3 x Stormfiends

Warlock Bombardier

Verminlord Warpseer

(+1 CP)

Has worked well for me each time I took them out.

[Black Blade]

Just experienced the wrong end of a Warp Lightning Vortex, 3 triggers before I could move away cause I lost the roll off. Is the consensus here, that this endless spell is fine as is written and/or for it's cost?

[Coyote]

I think WLV is fine at the 100 points.  We can’t guarantee we’ll get the spell cast, and frankly doesn’t work against everyone as effectively as some that are brutalized by it.  Also, you it can be dispelled on the Opponents hero phase, which I’ve seen half the time I’ve cast it.  So 100 points and rules as written seems fair to me.

[Saodexan]

3 hours ago, Black Blade said:

Just experienced the wrong end of a Warp Lightning Vortex, 3 triggers before I could move away cause I lost the roll off. Is the consensus here, that this endless spell is fine as is written and/or for it's cost?

Vortex is really strong, but to be honest you lose the double turn against shooting. Any shooting/magic/ranged ability is deadly and you eat them twice before you can move. From terrorgheist scream to kharadon firepower, lose the double turn and you gonna feel the pain. It's just the nature of ranged damage, you can't do ****** about it and eat it twice.