AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Skreech Verminking]

On 6/7/2019 at 7:28 AM, Skreech Verminking said:

heros:220p

1Grey seer:120p(skitterleap)

1Warlock bombardier:100p(General; deranged inventor; something injector)

battleline:400p

 2x40Clanrats:400p

others:520p

3Stormfiends:260p

1Rattling gun:80p

 1Warplightning cannon:180p

endless spells:100p

Warplightning vortex:100p

total:1240p.

So like  promised yesterday, I played my against my foe-things Felsh water courts.

he brought, a ghoulking on terrorgheist, two of those summoning dudes who cost 200points each, 2units of 10ghouls, a corpscart, the stampede and cauldron endless spells.

well he chose the first turn, which is funny considering almost does it, and well got literally every spell of on his ghoul king, who the  jumped into the front line of my clanrats.

thankfully he failed to make the charge twice.

in my first turn well I cast skitterleap onto my warlock bombardier to get him to my skryre units, I also sucefully cast the vortex and got both of his summoning dues each down to 1wpund remaining.

in my movement phase I shuffled up a little with everything, and buffed and overloaded everything into the terrorgheist, which was barely alive with one wound (my Warlock bombardier skittered to far away to overcharge my cannon which in the end was my downfall)

anyways in hopes of killing the ghoulking K charged one of my units of clanrats, and well 33of them died to the surprisingly damageoutput 1whole Monster can do, and I was sadly unable to kill him of.

basically the monster then got all of his wounds back thanks to the cauldron and well teared through my ranks, till there was nothing left.

so what did I learn from that game.

well basically 2things

1. always, always overcharge your skryre stuff

and last but not least I should have probably tried to dispel the cauldron😭

 

[frostfire]

Haven’t faced Fyreslayer yet. Is our army hitting hard enough to eliminate them?

[Skreech Verminking]

3 hours ago, frostfire said:

Haven’t faced Fyreslayer yet. Is our army hitting hard enough to eliminate them?

Nor have I but plague monks are a problem solver for anything.

especially if you put deathfrenzy on them.

 

[Coyote]

Brood Horror - how to create models

Has anyone made them, and how did you put them together?

Need help, want to make or find other models to modify to make Brood Horrors?

Preferably I’d like to use GW models as I’d like to be able to use my creations in Tournaments without any issues.  

Key - Want to avoiding buying the models from Forge World for pricing, especially if I want to field like 2 and a mounted Clawlord.

[Skreech Verminking]

9 minutes ago, Coyote said:

Brood Horror - how to create models

Has anyone made them, and how did you put them together?

Need help, want to make or find other models to modify to make Brood Horrors?

Preferably I’d like to use GW models as I’d like to be able to use my creations in Tournaments without any issues.  

Key - Want to avoiding buying the models from Forge World for pricing, especially if I want to field like 2 and a mounted Clawlord.

Ratogre+Clawlord=Claworld on Brood horror.

or go the Gloomspite way and chain two Stormfiends or ratogres together and put a fanatic little master moulder on top of it.

or buy that new csm guy on that very funky looking maschinery.

cut of the head and put a few skaven symbols on it while gluing some crazy warlock on top of it.

[frostfire]

53 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Nor have I but plague monks are a problem solver for anything.

Sound solid but I assume when they have 3+r1 save and 4+fnp, it would become less handy to deal with them.

[KingOfSuede]

Quick newbie AoS general strategy question that I think will be relevant for a lot of Clanrat usage:

How often do you consider unit formations when setting up and moving units of 20-40 models?

In my limited experience, a unit formation can be a tight 5x4 "rank and file" formation, a 1x40 line with the maximum 1" spacing between each model, and anything in between. Am I over thinking this or is there serious consideration given to units that are going to charge, be charged at, take an objective, hold an objective, block scenery chokes, and on and on?

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@frostfire Indeed fyreslayers now are true anvil units and tough to remove. I believe they now have a unit that's Marathi level indestructible. My advice: Don't try to kill them, tag them with a unit of clanrats, just like in the video a few posts above. Fortunately, that army's weakness is movement and so putting any of their units out of position, whether its tempting them with juicy targets on the edge of the field, ambushing them in the backfeild, you can remove them from the game from them not participating at in combat. 

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@KingOfSuede Great question. Personally I do something weird with clanrats when I know they're accompanied by a hero, screaming bells in particular. I'll have a line of rats in front of hero and then a clump of them to the side. Kinda like a stove pot shape. The reason why is so I do have some hitting power to one side while also screening my hero. The reason I don't do a crescent shaped bubble wrap like you might expect is you'll find that the Scurry away ability is wasted for your heroes because there's nowhere to go. Center-piece models often get stuck behind your battleline if they don't have a direction to swing out to. Alternatively, a thin line of clanrats can be the first to die thus allowing your hero to easily get their hands dirty in combat.

Frankly, feel free to experiment with your play style, and by no means should you worry about overthinking. Maneuvering clanrats is secretly one of the most strategic and critical parts of playing skaven. How you arrange them can be different unit to unit, and this can change round to round. This is the part of the game that takes the most practice. I recommend 1000 point games to put the reps in. Don't feel overwhelmed though, always do what is the most relaxing/satisfying for your level of comfort. Have fun. 

[frostfire]

@Riff_Raff_RascalThx for advice (again!). Finally come up with this with my favorite units:

Allegiance: Skaventide
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (200)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic 
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Plague Priest on Plague Furnace (180)
Verminlord Corruptor (260)
Warlock Bombardier (100)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector 
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)
Vermintide (40)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 181
 

It looks great but I am considering switching the corruptor with warbringer to get double Death Frenzy, which is enlightenment from @Riff_Raff_Rascal, to make monks 21 attacks each!

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, KingOfSuede said:

Quick newbie AoS general strategy question that I think will be relevant for a lot of Clanrat usage:

How often do you consider unit formations when setting up and moving units of 20-40 models?

In my limited experience, a unit formation can be a tight 5x4 "rank and file" formation, a 1x40 line with the maximum 1" spacing between each model, and anything in between. Am I over thinking this or is there serious consideration given to units that are going to charge, be charged at, take an objective, hold an objective, block scenery chokes, and on and on?

To be honest, I don't really group them in tight formations, but I also don't use them for damage.. I leave that to my magic and shooting. The front line may be spaced to some degree but outside of that they're typically pretty loosely packed. One of the biggest things to consider (as I mention it time and time again) is what you want to get out of them; are you planning to just lock down units without taking much damage in return? See the video I posted above.. you will want to be more careful about how they're packed and placement on the charge. Is your goal to get as many into combat as possible? Then I would pack them together a bit more to ensure you get your 2 ranks in (with Blades) on a charge.

The great thing with Clanrats is that even when they get charged, your retreat + charge lets you easily re-position them against your opponent. Holding objectives will vary and depends on what you're up against; sometimes you may want to flood the objective to get as many within that 6" as possible, but if you're facing down a more elite army (like stormcast) that may not be as important and you can leave just enough in range to hold it while they have minimal models that they can swing with. @Riff_Raff_Rascal pretty much summed it up.. just get practice in and you'll see what we mean.

[Lord Krungharr]

On 6/5/2019 at 2:03 PM, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Question: For a slinktalon battalion (fun to say), when I deploy the battalion's units, can't I deploy assassins and gutter runners off the table still (as per their warscroll abilities)? Usually such tricks would state "at least half the units must be on the board rule" but no such thing put in print for skaven. 

Yes, we can deploy all the Gutter Runners to outflank if we want.   That could come in very handy when facing another alpha strike army too.  Doesn't a Deathmaster always have to come out of a unit of more than 5 Skaven?  Or can they deploy normally?  Haven't used mine yet.

 

On 6/5/2019 at 12:43 PM, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Recently played pure Eshin to give them their chance. The Masters of Murder trait actually worked wonders. Through trickery and good positioning I was able to have my Deceivers kill all four of my friends Stormcast heroes by round 3.  

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Skaventide - Mortal Realm: Aqshy
LEADERS
Deathmaster (100)
- Artefact : The Cube of Mists
Deathmaster (100)
Verminlord Deceiver (300)
Verminlord Deceiver (300)
- General
- Command Trait : Unrivalled Killer
- Artefact : Thermalrider Cloak
UNITS
20 x Gutter Runners (200)
40 x Night Runners (280)
10 x Night Runners (80)
20 x Gutter Runners (200)
10 x Night Runners (80)
10 x Night Runners (80)
5 x Gutter Runners (60)
5 x Gutter Runners (60)
BATTALIONS
Slinktalon (160)

A few things I noticed:

An interesting interaction with the Gnawholes I discovered was that if your opponent kinda stretches their army like taffy to try to contain your teleport abilities, you can dreaded skitterleap onto a gnawhole where a hero is trying to zone you out, kill them, then use the gnawhole to escape next hero phase. You might even have room to drop in a unit at that gnawhole next turn. Its the 6'' rule for the dreaded skitterleap that can catch people off guard when they are zoning the board with 9'' all around. 

I never got to use my slinktalon ability but I still recommend the battalion for how cheap it is. The more artifacts your assassin characters have, the better. Its utility suffers from the fact that all eshin battleline are really easy to kill. The one-time use nature of the battalion encourages multiple engagements in a turn but generally (for any army) you don't want multiple engagements all at once because, well, half of your battalion died before the attack. I actively chose not to use it for fear of not being efficient enough. In hindsight just use the damn thing for a small skirmish because why not. 

Night Runners are NOT Clanrats. Firstly, not being able to retreat and charge was such a drag. Once you commit to an engagement you pretty much assume they are dead meat. 

Eshin wants to be a shooting army. ITS NOT. My whole army has shooting and I managed to do 15 wounds out of ~150 shots over 3 rounds.  Between the exploding hits ability on my battleline, being able to re-roll wounds for shooting against heroes army-wide, the running and shooting ability and the really cool Warpweaper Star artifact, its all a big tease. Without any movement shenanigans built-in, eshin battline's 12'' range is really a death sentence. If they charge after shooting, they hit like feathers, if they stay put after "running and shooting" to extend their threat range they explode into dust when charged. 

Recommendations:

If you want to have the eshin flavor in your army, stick with a core of eshin heroes to really make use of their army trait. The cube of mists is spicy tech. If you put it on a Deathmaster, you actually extend the artifacts target range when you deploy the hidden unit. It comes out to be about 8'' range, from nearest battline unit. The gnawbomb I've used in other games consistently and is great sometimes for a +1 to cast in the middle of the field or moving your centerpiece hero to the other side of the board after your opponent over-committed to take 'em out. Use the slinktalon at almost min size, keeping a max block of gutter runners if you want that extra artifact. Eshin hate monsters.  They very well could not be a hero. Account for this when making lists. And finally, give a Deceiver flying. We skaven players have never flown before. Who needs skitterleap when you can jump battlelines and kill heroes in their sleep (*cough* "thermalrider cloak" *cough*).

I definitely want to try the Deceiver with the Thermalrider Cloak!  Seems really really fun, and coupled with the trait where he can't be seen 6" if he's near terrain, that would be really ninja-ish.

Gutter Runners get 2 attacks each at rend -1.  Isn't it 3+/4+ too, plus the Skaven bonus for hitting if they have a big unit intact?  That's pretty good used next to a Deciever's command ability.  I've only used them at 1000 points, and that was Warpseer General, Deceiver, 2x20 Gutter Runners, Vermintide.  You make a good point about maxing out the heroes though.   Warpseer is such a good general though for Skaven.   Maybe I can squeeze in another Deathmaster somewhere, as now I have 80 Gutter Runners and 20 Night Runners for a huge Slinktalon.

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Lord Krungharr Don't get me wrong, Gutter Runners are great. I treat them like the stormvermin of clan eshin (cheaper per model huh, weird). Its the night runners that I have a problem with. For the Deathmasters, they can deploy either way. I think they're still fun but in a vacuum not all that great assassins. Honestly if you throw a Sword of Judgement or a Dimensional Blade on one of them, their killing power goes through the roof, particularly against the heroes they get re-rolls against. Personally, I like giving them -3 Rend on their fighting claws for better all around combat and makes those 5 wound heroes shake in their boots. 

[frostfire]

Quick question: do you often put MMMWP on Jezzails? They are so vulnerable that taking D3 mortal wounds may reduce they missile output.

[Coyote]

I take Jezzails in unit of 6, so less worry.

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, frostfire said:

Quick question: do you often put MMMWP on Jezzails? They are so vulnerable that taking D3 mortal wounds may reduce they missile output.

I only run 9 most of the time, but never less than 6.. you want this for survivability of them as the low bravery is what kills them most of the time. I will only put MMMWP on them if I'm out of range of my 20-30 unit of Acolytes as it's far more useful on them.

That said, if you really want to make sure that hero\monster dies THIS TURN then I typically go for it. It's how I managed to 1-shot a LoC, Bloodthirster, Cauldron of Blood.. etc. I send them through a Gnawhole in case someone's hiding a unit they don't want butchered and that 30" range gets pretty much anywhere.

[Laststand]

15 hours ago, Coyote said:

Brood Horror - how to create models

Has anyone made them, and how did you put them together?

Need help, want to make or find other models to modify to make Brood Horrors?

Preferably I’d like to use GW models as I’d like to be able to use my creations in Tournaments without any issues.  

Key - Want to avoiding buying the models from Forge World for pricing, especially if I want to field like 2 and a mounted Clawlord.

If you are going to build one from a GW model you could use a 40k Lord Discordant as a base. Add in some hellpit abomination bits to rat it up and it would be awesome.

99120102100_CSMVexMachinator01.webp

[frostfire]

Have my first Skaven game today! It was against Fyreslayer, as I mentioned above, and luckily I won the game.

This is the first time that I played a horde army in AoS, the models are so numerous, which is contradictory to what I played before (SCE and Sylvaneth), that it takes much time to deploy and move, and roll dices for plague monks of course! The video above helps a lot too, to slow down the hearthguards.

It feels all new to play a different type of army and I am glad that plague monks just performed even better than I expected.  Now I can see that they are solver for anything.

I think I will dive deeper in this army and try other tactics and shenanigans, hoping to have you guys' wisdom.

[Vampire]

Hi guys! I'm new to AoS and Skaven. I will have today my first introductory game at 500 points and would love to know if you would be so kind to help me. I was thinking about bringing the following:

- Plague Priest (General) with Master of Rot and Ruin and Foul Pendant / Maybe Liber Bubonicus?

- 2x30 Plague Monks with Foetid Blades

Any feedback will be highly appreciated. Thank you so much in advance my lovely people rats. 🐭

[Skreech Verminking]

22 minutes ago, Vampire said:

Hi guys! I'm new to AoS and Skaven. I will have today my first introductory game at 500 points and would love to know if you would be so kind to help me. I was thinking about bringing the following:

- Plague Priest (General) with Master of Rot and Ruin and Foul Pendant / Maybe Liber Bubonicus?

- 2x30 Plague Monks with Foetid Blades

Any feedback will be highly appreciated. Thank you so much in advance my lovely people rats. 🐭

Looks good, although I’m not sure if you’re opponent will be happy with the result.

anyways good luck and happy wargaming.

[5kaven5lave]

Been running 6 Shootfiends in my Skryre list last few games and they’re rapidly becoming my MVPs. With MMMWP and a Warpstone Spark the Ratling guns are killing stuff before the Windlaunchers get a go!! So brutal. 

[frostfire]

42 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Been running 6 Shootfiends in my Skryre list last few games and they’re rapidly becoming my MVPs. With MMMWP and a Warpstone Spark the Ratling guns are killing stuff before the Windlaunchers get a go!! So brutal. 

Yes, I have played against this type of list, but he ran 9 instead of 6. They just got buffed up and wiped out most of my army (SCE)in a single turn.

[KingOfSuede]

@5kaven5lave in my couple practice games so far, they've been my favorite unit as well. Windlaunchers have been insane, doing what I'd want Warpfire Projectors to do but at a safer range and not requiring LOS. -3 Rend is just about as good as mortal wounds too.

They also seem to be the closest thing Skaven have to some semblance of a cavalry unit.

[Skreech Verminking]

Skaa Bloodtail ready to murder-slay for-things,

Yes-yes Queek will be pleased!

 

[michu]

Nice Clawlord @Skreech Verminking. Is that a Duardin axe?

Ok. so who want to upset Dispossessed players and add their cannons to Skaven armies? They will run out of ink for their Book of Grudges.  

Edited June 11, 2019 by michu