AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@frostfire It is intentional that its only good against monsters/heroes. Most of the time verminlords sit back behind clanrats and wait for opponents to isolate their important units, that's when you can swing out and surprise them. Here's how its done: He starts with 10 attacks, has a built in Nat6 on hit to do 1 MW, then the Nat 6 to hit from SOJ, and most importantly, his command ability allows for 1 friendly Pestilens unit to re-roll attacks (himself). With 10 dice, you can get, lets say 2 6's to start, then, regardless of how many other hit, you re-roll everything else (8 dice). On average you'll get one more 6. So for this example thats (3 x d6) + (3 x 1) MW's. For added spice, at end of combat, he has a built in 4+ do another d3 MWs to something. 

Keep in mind, this is just a conservative example, he's very swingy. Its unfortunate but he's often a better "assassin" than the Verminlord Deceiver because of this. 

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Skreech Verminking Well hot diggity. A wild Great Unclean One appeared. Ooh ooh, how bout Festus the Leechlord so Thanquol can heal 1 +d3  a turn? Or how bout an anvil unit like chaos knights so acolytes can just shoot from behind them all day long. The Chaos Sorcerer is spicy for even the lowliest clanrats when fully buffed (3+/3+/-/ 1dmg, re-rolling all 1's). Need a cannonball unit? Look no further than the demon prince. All of this for the low-low price of a plague priest as your general (80pts). Why you'd do that I don't know but I'm into it. 

[frostfire]

@Riff_Raff_RascalOh I can see that how Deceiver+Corruptor combo works. That’s a baller.Thx again!

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

I tried out an alpha strike verminous: Mixed Skaven vs. Mixed Order (mostly shooty stormcast); Chamon (no rend for the battle). Just played a game with this list except it was derpy due to "no rend allowed" for the battle.  

Step 1: Huddle army around a Gnawhole. +1 to cast for all your wizards this way.  Cast Cogs. 

Step 2: Death frenzy x2 the stormvermin ("Death Frenzy" + "Dreaded Death Frenzy")

Step 3: Skitterleap Assassin to nearby terrain feature. Drop a Gnawbomb. Send Storm-vermies through the Gnawhole. 

Step 4: Skitterleap Warbringer close to enemy (within 6'')

Step 5: At end of movement, tunnel up a Clawlord near where the storm-vermies will hopefully charge

Step 6: Charge in with the storm-vermies and pop the Clawlord and Warbringer's Command Abilities. 

Step 7: Enjoy the 7 attacks per model at 3+/2+/-1/ 1dmag, re-rolling all 1's (they pile-in and attack twice upon death)

Spoiler

LEADERS
Grey Seer (120)
- Lore of Ruin : Skitterleap
Grey Seer (120)
- Lore of Ruin : Death Frenzy
Verminlord Warbringer (260)
- General
- Command Trait : Devious Adversary
Clawlord (100)
- Mighty Warlord Command Trait : Verminous Valour
Deathmaster (100)
- Artefact : Gnawbomb
Verminlord Deceiver (300)
UNITS
40 x Stormvermin (500)
- Halberd & Shield
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
ENDLESS SPELLS
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Quicksilver Swords (20)
TOTAL: 1900/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2

No battle report needed as both sides couldn't kill each other at all but the above steps worked exactly as planned. That said, being in the opponent's face turn one changes the nature of the game considerably. Fun times. 

[frostfire]

I have noticed that Big Rats list with endless spells went amazingly well at several tournaments, how does it work so well with such a low body count? 

[Skreech Verminking]

5 minutes ago, frostfire said:

I have noticed that Big Rats list with endless spells went amazingly well at several tournaments, how does it work so well with such a low body count? 

I haven’t seen the battles, but I guess the player used the warplightning vortex/ shackles combo and kept his enemy’s from moving.

Bit I could be wrong😅

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[gronnelg]

@Riff_Raff_RascalHoly molly! That's awesome! Basically, anything the stormvermin touches will just die, right? But I guess if the opponents screens well, this list will have a hard time?

[robbobobo]

1 hour ago, frostfire said:

I have noticed that Big Rats list with endless spells went amazingly well at several tournaments, how does it work so well with such a low body count? 

The list works because Endless spells are classed as friendly models, so you can't pass through them normally. Some of the endless spells also deny movement or block LoS, like Vermintide or Prismatic Palisades, or are large models that make it difficult to move around them. They are used to control the board; an army that can't move effectively can't take objectives. Most of them also cause damage in addition to inhibiting movement, ie. Warp Lightning Vortex and Soulsnare Shackles.  If they dispel them, just cast them again, your wizards are probably next to Gnawholes anyway. If they teleport away, cast normal spells and stomp them, you have 4 Verminlords.

EDIT: Casting 8 spells a turn is also very, very hard to stop.

Edited May 29, 2019 by robbobobo

[frostfire]

3 minutes ago, robbobobo said:

The list works because Endless spells are classed as friendly models, so you can't pass through them normally. Some of the endless spells also deny movement or block LoS, like Vermintide or Prismatic Palisades, or are large models that make it difficult to move around them. They are used to control the board; an army that can't move effectively can't take objectives. Most of them also cause damage in addition to inhibiting movement, ie. Warp Lightning Vortex and Soulsnare Shackles.  If they dispel them, just cast them again, your wizards are probably next to Gnawholes anyway. If they teleport away, cast normal spells and stomp them, you have 4 Verminlords.

EDIT: Casting 8 spells a turn is also very, very hard to stop.

But how about fighting Nagash or other LoN armies? Or even FEC that can fly over the spell? 

[robbobobo]

12 minutes ago, frostfire said:

But how about fighting Nagash or other LoN armies? Or even FEC that can fly over the spell? 

Dreaded Warpgale,  Soulsnare Shackles, Warp Lightning Vortex are good for taking care of fliers. You also need to consider where you place your spells since each model can deny movement. If they can't fit in an area they can't move there. Malevolent Maelstrom is a choice I've seen in a few lists to help against spellcasters, though it's not taken often. Dreaded Skitterleaping a Verminlord Corruptor with a Sword of Judgement usually solves the Nagash issue, if all goes well.

 

[frostfire]

3 minutes ago, robbobobo said:

Dreaded Warpgale,  Soulsnare Shackles, Warp Lightning Vortex are good for taking care of fliers.

Brilliant for slow down fliers! How could I forget them! But what concern me is when facing Nagash, it might be hard to get my spell off because he can unbind 8 spells with +3 unbinding. 

[robbobobo]

3 minutes ago, frostfire said:

 But what concern me is when facing Nagash, it might be hard to get my spell off because he can unbind 8 spells with +3 unbinding.  

Your only option is to try and try again, cast what you  can, bait out the dispels, then try to get off one of your two Skitterleaps (Dreaded from the Deceiver, and normal from the Grey Seer, which forms your 5th caster) and try to assassinate Nagash. If not outright kill, then hurt him enough to make his cast and unbinds significantly weaker.

Edited May 29, 2019 by robbobobo

[frostfire]

22 minutes ago, robbobobo said:

Your only option is to try and try again, cast what you  can, bait out the dispels, then try to get off one of your two Skitterleaps (Dreaded from the Deceiver, and normal from the Grey Seer, which forms your 5th caster) and try to assassinate Nagash. If not outright kill, then hurt him enough to make his cast and unbinds significantly weaker.

Although it is a bit difficult to get to Nagash himself when your opponent secures him with dire wolves or something similar, it seems to be the only way. Anyway, it's nice to have your wisdom!Yes-yes!

[Coyote]

Here to drain your intelligence again - new question...

If I have 2 of the same Verminlords (I.e. 2 Deceivers) in my list - Can they both cast their spell (I.e Dreaded askitterleap?) 

Asking for a friend, not to like, plot against you all or anything.

[Saodexan]

1 hour ago, Coyote said:

Here to drain your intelligence again - new question...

If I have 2 of the same Verminlords (I.e. 2 Deceivers) in my list - Can they both cast their spell (I.e Dreaded askitterleap?) 

Asking for a friend, not to like, plot against you all or anything.

No. Can't cast the same spell twice unless stated otherwise like the engineer/bombardier. But you can give Skitterleap to your Grey Seer and cast Skitterleap + Dreaded Skitterleap.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Saodexan

[Coyote]

Glad I asked, and funny you should mention that!

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@gronnelg Holy Moly indeed. I'm glad you like it. To address bubble wrapping, the Death Frenzy effect is very unique for a "Deathstar" style unit and actually overcomes proper deployment from an opponent unlike units such as like Witch Elves. The hypothesis I'm running with is that the initial attack will put that chaff wall into the grinder so it don't exist, however, the vermin-ballz of death haven't used up their hitting power until you're following hero phase. That's the spice. You're opponent is forced to try to obliterate that block of vermin because of the display of killing power AND you're in their face. But thats when they get 4 more attacks upon death (6 if you spend your last command point), very likely against their heroes or elite units which is actually where stormvermin shine. 

[Coyote]

So, planning to murder Druthru this weekend.  Have only 750 points. 

Thoughts?  

[Skreech Verminking]

15 minutes ago, Coyote said:

So, planning to murder Druthru this weekend.  Have only 750 points. 

Thoughts?  

2warlock bombardiers:200p

2warplightning cannons:360p

40Clanrats:200p

call your warplightning cannons the tree burners and boom, Durthur is dead yes, yes

or burn him with 6warpflamer weapon teams:420p.

trees must burn-burn!!

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@frostfireShoot the sucker. Two lightning cannons with warlock support even makes a war mammoth think twice. Nagash does have a 4+ MW save but if your opponent doesn't respect that MW output then thats on them. Nagash can stop spells but can't stop being shot. Its not like he can hide behind most terrain. I like using realm spells such as Lens of Refraction or Spell Mirror to discourage spells being used on the things that kill those pesky magic types. 

[will pollock]

Question, if you use a warpstone spark to increase the damage of a warpfire thrower, does each 4+ cause two mortal wounds?

Same goes for warp lightning cannons

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, will pollock said:

Question, if you use a warpstone spark to increase the damage of a warpfire thrower, does each 4+ cause two mortal wounds?

Same goes for warp lightning cannons

Neither have damage characteristics and therefore you can't use a spark on them.

[GrimDork]

1 hour ago, will pollock said:

Question, if you use a warpstone spark to increase the damage of a warpfire thrower, does each 4+ cause two mortal wounds?

Same goes for warp lightning cannons

I think warp stone spark does not work with warp fire throwers and lightning cannons as they do not have a damage characteristic.

[Specks006]

Has anyone had anyluck with a 40 man Stormvermin unit? Im thinking a block of them with a clawlord on broodhorror would look sexy.

I know plague monks are better but I really hate those models.

My current list idea around them is this: 

Allegiance: Chaos
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Skaven Clawlord on Brood Horror(160)
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
- Mighty Warlord Command Trait: Brutal Fury
Verminlord Warbringer (260)
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic 
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (200)
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Stormvermin (500)
- Halberd
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)
Vermintide (40)

Total: 1920 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 165

[5kaven5lave]

@Specks006

You sure you don’t want an endless spell in there as well man? Could put in a cheeky Shackles to make your Rat Trap even filthier. 

Let us know how you get on with that 500 point Stormvermin unit, it’s quite the investment.