AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Skreech Verminking]

10 hours ago, Coyote said:

Yes

Oh that’s good to know, already thought we might have lost you to the insanity Duncan had to go through.

good thing though that we skaven players are rather quick on our feet’s and know how to escape. (EDIT: not like Winston form 1984)

It’s a good thing we know politics😜 (a knife to the back never hurts as long as it is somebody else then you,

Yes-yes)

Edited May 18, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Kirjava13]

That is... the most unexpected sideways pivot into a 1984 reference I think I've ever seen.

[Overread]

6 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

That is... the most unexpected sideways pivot into a 1984 reference I think I've ever seen.

I think by now we need to fully accept that Skreech is just nuts

[Brakkus]

So went to the tournament today and finished 2-1. Was a lot of fun and skryre can shoot...A LOT. I played the 1200 point list I put up.

Game 1 was against Legions of Nagash. I gave him first turn and he ran everything up into shooting range. Took out 2 heroes and a unit of 10 knights. Got the double turn and after two straight shooting phases, the rest was clean up. I was surprised how effective my shooting was even though I failed every spell cast attempt, even with spark rerolls

Game 2 was against slaanesh. Again, I gave him first turn and he ran up. I made sure I was far enough back not to give him easy charges and he didn't get in to me. I shot and killed his Keeper and unit of 10 seekers turn 1. Didn't get the double and he hit my lines with 2 chariots, hellstriders and the unique character. Got lucky with some bad rolls from my opponent and decent save rolls. I retreated from the combats I could and shot off some wounds, but only wiped the striders from battle shock. I got the double and killed the rest of his heroes. All that was left was to take the objectives and hunt down his unit of daemonettes.

Game 3 was against gloomspite, knife to the heart. I knew this would be tough as he had FAR more models than me. We also rolled up the feature that units couldn't run unless they could also fly. Long story short, his boing grot bounders got him to take my objective bottom of 4. I sling shotted my AW up to try and sneak onto his unguarded objective bottom of 3, but was 2" away...if only I could've ran...

As most have said, pure skryre is bonkers fun but not having any clan rats was really felt. Jezzails, cannon and AW were all stars, and while the acolytes were good, I felt they were inconsistent, especially since my magic was ice cold all day. I'm thinking of trying out a unit of 6 stormfiends and see how that goes, as the unit of 3 were solid all day.

Anyway, skaven continues to be loads of fun and I look forward to playing them more and really settling into how I want/like to play them.

[Skreech Verminking]

20 hours ago, Kirjava13 said:

That is... the most unexpected sideways pivot into a 1984 reference I think I've ever seen.

To be cunning you must be unpredictable on the battlefield and your tactics, unexpected.

20 hours ago, Overread said:

I think by now we need to fully accept that Skreech is just nuts

It’s a miracle you haven’t till now😂

[Darkhan]

Tested out Warpseer for the first time on Saturday. NEVER building a list without him again. That battleshock bubble is worth EVERY point. Not a single rat ran. Total glorious value.

2v2 game. 1500 points armies, FeC + Nagash vs Skaven + Slaanesh. 

Skaven & Slaanesh victory!

[Mascule]

Hello fellow skaven fan, i am a skaven fan since i started aos, but never have been a horde army guy so hete is my touch on the skaventide. I have a 2k tournament next weekend and i plan on using this list, any advices are welcome.

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Arch-Warlock (160)
- General
- Trait: Deranged Inventor 
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector 
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
Warlock Bombardier (100)
Warlock Bombardier (100)
Warlock Engineer (100)

Battleline

Units
3 x Stormfiends (260)
3 x Stormfiends (260)
15 x Skryre Acolytes (180)

War Machines
Doomwheel (160)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Endless Spells
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 108
 

[Gwendar]

Anyone have the BOBO results? Really curious to see how Dan Bradshaws Verminlord\Endless Spell list did as I really want to give something similar a shot next month.

[Saodexan]

3 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Anyone have the BOBO results? Really curious to see how Dan Bradshaws Verminlord\Endless Spell list did as I really want to give something similar a shot next month.

Second place, but all top 5 have 5 win 0 lose. The 4th was a plaguemonk list.

[Unter]

3 hours ago, Saodexan said:

Second place, but all top 5 have 5 win 0 lose. The 4th was a plaguemonk list.

Plague monk list was mine, had a really fun tournament.

 

happy to answer any questions

[5kaven5lave]

6 minutes ago, Unter said:

Plague monk list was mine, had a really fun tournament.

 

happy to answer any questions

Great work man. 

As extensive a write up as you fancy doing would be welcome!!

[Unter]

5 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Great work man. 

As extensive a write up as you fancy doing would be welcome!!

Cheers! 

I won't go through a blow by blow of my games, but I got a few favoured matchups (big monsters) that provided good targets for my cannon and vortex, as well as solid battleplans (no relocation orb or burning objectives).

Over 5 games I played versus 6 Dragons, 3 Bloodthirsters and 2 Keepers of Secrets, which is ok for Skaven, as we've got screens for days.

I think the list is tight, and there's not too much I'd change. Congregation of Filth I took mainly to lower the drops, which paid off in a couple of matchups as I was able to dictate priority. Most Skaven lists are closer to 10-11 drops so it should pay off in a Skaven mirror too, which was the initial logic.

Plague Monks are insanely undercosted and Death Frenzy just turns them up to 11. Skaven are ultimately just extremely strong and have an answer to most things, plague monks definitely need toned down/increased points, but I'm not complaining - I've waited a long time for Skaven to be good!

I tended to deploy in a tight ball in the middle of the table with a long clanrat screen at 1" spacing, with the monks in a tight bunch just behind. I tried to use the Plague Furnace to take up space to block double pile-ins or serious movement shenanigans from getting into my monks by flying over screens, which it was good for.

The ball of plague monks then went off in a hand-grenade like direction in T1 or T2, spreading from a tight ball to a wide line with cogs where possible, leaving them with an 8" move and +3 to charge. The amount of distance you can cover with those bonuses and a pile-in is pretty nuts, and it was relatively straightforward to tag multiple units.

Warpseer was good bait in a lot of games. Left deliberately out of position to try and draw a charge and he didn't die in the whole tournament (partly thanks to some lucky rolling). His scry-orb also won me my game 5 by killing the last summoning hero for Slaanesh, so don't forget that - I often do.

 

[Gwendar]

@Saodexan Awesome, thanks. Really wish there was video of it because I would love to see how he plays that. I may need to give that list a shot as I've been dying to try it out ever since it posted awhile back.

6 hours ago, Unter said:

Plague Monks are insanely undercosted and Death Frenzy just turns them up to 11. Skaven are ultimately just extremely strong and have an answer to most things, plague monks definitely need toned down/increased points, but I'm not complaining - I've waited a long time for Skaven to be good!

Grats on 4th, I know there's not much you would change but do you think it would still greatly benefit a shoot-heavy list (like I usually run, 9 Jezzails + 30 Acolytes) to tone back Clanrats or some of the shooting and bring 40 Monks? Even if unsupported by a Furnace? This way you at least have a little bit of everything.

I think in the end I'm going to see if the GHB drastically drops Stormvermin or increases Monks, but I haven't felt the need to have anything in the combat phase since I put so much into shooting that can (often) delete whole units each turn. Granted, not getting a double-turn really can hurt such shoot-heavy lists that I run.

[5kaven5lave]

@Gwendar I’ve been running min Clanrats and 40 Monks pushing a Bell with Death Frenzy in my mixed list with Jezzails, Acolytes etc.,works ok for me. Could easily be a Furnace though instead of a bell though I guess?

[Gwendar]

@5kaven5lave I suppose so.. may need to mess around with it a bit. Next list was going to just drop some Acolytes\Jezzails and throw in a Doomwheel but, I'll be honest...

...I'm more concerned with buying another VL and setting up something similar to Dan's list.

[Poryague]

13 hours ago, Unter said:

Cheers! 

I won't go through a blow by blow of my games, but I got a few favoured matchups (big monsters) that provided good targets for my cannon and vortex, as well as solid battleplans (no relocation orb or burning objectives).

Over 5 games I played versus 6 Dragons, 3 Bloodthirsters and 2 Keepers of Secrets, which is ok for Skaven, as we've got screens for days.

I think the list is tight, and there's not too much I'd change. Congregation of Filth I took mainly to lower the drops, which paid off in a couple of matchups as I was able to dictate priority. Most Skaven lists are closer to 10-11 drops so it should pay off in a Skaven mirror too, which was the initial logic.

Plague Monks are insanely undercosted and Death Frenzy just turns them up to 11. Skaven are ultimately just extremely strong and have an answer to most things, plague monks definitely need toned down/increased points, but I'm not complaining - I've waited a long time for Skaven to be good!

I tended to deploy in a tight ball in the middle of the table with a long clanrat screen at 1" spacing, with the monks in a tight bunch just behind. I tried to use the Plague Furnace to take up space to block double pile-ins or serious movement shenanigans from getting into my monks by flying over screens, which it was good for.

The ball of plague monks then went off in a hand-grenade like direction in T1 or T2, spreading from a tight ball to a wide line with cogs where possible, leaving them with an 8" move and +3 to charge. The amount of distance you can cover with those bonuses and a pile-in is pretty nuts, and it was relatively straightforward to tag multiple units.

Warpseer was good bait in a lot of games. Left deliberately out of position to try and draw a charge and he didn't die in the whole tournament (partly thanks to some lucky rolling). His scry-orb also won me my game 5 by killing the last summoning hero for Slaanesh, so don't forget that - I often do.

 

 did the plague furnace have an artifact if so what was it?

[Unter]

9 hours ago, Poryague said:

 did the plague furnace have an artifact if so what was it?

No, for my 2nd artefact I went for Vigordust injector for +1 to hit and +1 to charge on monks, so I'd have +2 to move from cogs and +4 to charge from injector/cogs/monk banner.

On reflection, I rarely needed those bonuses. By having enough of a ranged threat people tended to come to me (partially due to the matchups I had), so I'd maybe have gone for the reroll prayers artefact on the furnace instead of injector.

 

16 hours ago, Gwendar said:

@Saodexan Awesome, thanks. Really wish there was video of it because I would love to see how he plays that. I may need to give that list a shot as I've been dying to try it out ever since it posted awhile back.

Grats on 4th, I know there's not much you would change but do you think it would still greatly benefit a shoot-heavy list (like I usually run, 9 Jezzails + 30 Acolytes) to tone back Clanrats or some of the shooting and bring 40 Monks? Even if unsupported by a Furnace? This way you at least have a little bit of everything.

I think in the end I'm going to see if the GHB drastically drops Stormvermin or increases Monks, but I haven't felt the need to have anything in the combat phase since I put so much into shooting that can (often) delete whole units each turn. Granted, not getting a double-turn really can hurt such shoot-heavy lists that I run.

Cheers! Yeah you have to. Even without Death Frenzy, monks are so so cheap and they can delete almost any unit in the game. Furthermore, their frontage is so large that you can comfortably get them into multiple units and just blow people up.

I'm certain monks will go up, as they are probably the most egregiously overpowered facet of Skaventide, but I'd be surprised to see any compensatory buffs or point reductions given how the wider community feels about Skaven atm.

The Furnace I really just took to get my drops down, but it provided very handy battleshock immune and a decent mortal wound output. It was also quite an effective screening drop. Given its large frontage you can use it to deny a flank charge on to your monks, and its cheap enough to throw away if you need to.

 

[Bozly]

On 5/20/2019 at 5:19 AM, Unter said:

Plague monk list was mine, had a really fun tournament.

 

happy to answer any questions

What was your list and how did you run it? How did it handle fec dok and shootcast?

[Unter]

1 hour ago, Bozly said:

What was your list and how did you run it? How did it handle fec dok and shootcast?

Grey Seer - Frenzy

Engineer - Vigordust, Warpshield

Warpseer - Suspicious Stone

Furnace

3x20 Clanrats

2x40 Monks

Cannon

Cogs

Vortex

Congregation of Filth Battalion

I managed to dodge FEC and DOK. FEC wouldn't be so scary as I've Frenzy and screens, but priority would be important.

DOK I think is a very hard matchup full stop, Morathi shrugs off tons of wounds, and even a few witch elves will tear through monks, plus they're more resilient. Sniping the general would be key.

I did play Stormcast but probably had too many bodies. I managed to dispel my own Vortex with Master of Magic then recast it onto their main shooting which was clustered together in cover.

My opponent who was a great guy, also probably focused on the Furnace/Warpseer too much, as opposed to the monks. 

The Furnace and Warpseer throughout the event took a disproportionate amount of heat, and any advice I'd give to people playing against a monk heavy list would be to just start chipping away on those blocks asap, even with 1MW/d3MW spells even though it feels like a waste. 

Getting the monks below the Skaventide horde bonuses is a big deal.

In each game I played defensively, I was against pretty aggressive combat lists in 4/5 games which was in my favour. They had to come across the board quick or they'd get chipped down by Vortex and Cannon, which let me get even a single block of monks into 2/3 units on occasion, and their busted warscroll does the rest.

Toughest game was my game 5 versus Slaanesh as they made both monk blocks strike last. Luckily in the previous round I'd been able to keep my furnace alive thanks to hot dice and my Warpseer safe so their damage combined with a few magic phase and shooting MW meant my blocks survived the double pile-in and cleaned house.

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Unter

[GeneralZero]

On 5/20/2019 at 7:47 AM, Saodexan said:

Second place, but all top 5 have 5 win 0 lose. The 4th was a plaguemonk list.

I must say on a general note that I am super pleased by the diversity of the lists presented and, more important, the diversity of the top 10 lists. GW did a nice job (almost) balancing all those so different armies. AoS is by that point far ahead of 40K I think. 

[Skreech Verminking]

I’m impressed by the sparkling coven player who got the 38th place 

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

Question: Does the Shadow Master command trait for Eshin still allow them to be charged? I assume this trait is only for the purposes of mitigating spells and shooting as the core rules for charging does not specify you need line of sight. 

[Skreech Verminking]

5 minutes ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Question: Does the Shadow Master command trait for Eshin still allow them to be charged? I assume this trait is only for the purposes of mitigating spells and shooting as the core rules for charging does not specify you need line of sight. 

It’s definitely an interesting question that could be in need of some clarification, but since it doesn’t exist and there are no rules prohibiting to charge an Enemy that is technically not seen, I would probably say that in such a case it would be useless 

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Skreech Verminking I'll wait and see. The game as it is promotes models dying left and right and this interpretation would certainly be against that. I recently decided to give pure Eshin a try with Slinktalon and came across weird questions like that one. 

[Skreech Verminking]

48 minutes ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@Skreech Verminking I'll wait and see. The game as it is promotes models dying left and right and this interpretation would certainly be against that. I recently decided to give pure Eshin a try with Slinktalon and came across weird questions like that one. 

Good luck then, still even if it isn’t possible to prevent the enemy from charging, but most damage dealing magic or shooting attacks can be literally be kept away from your General.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Skreech Verminking