AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Mayple]

3 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well more slave-thing for us-us🤗

anyways will be playing against a friend of mine, who is currently ranged to be at the top in my local area.

will be playing or using:

Heros:860p

1Verminlord Warpseer:260p(General; Master of magic, and that stone thingie)

3x1Screaming bell:600p(warpgale, skitterleap, deathfrenzy)

battleline:520p

1x20Clanrats:120p

2x40Clanrats:400p

others:480p

1x40Plague monks with double blade:240p

1x40Plague monks with staff and blade:240p

endless spells:160p

Warplightning vortex:100p

spellportal:60p

total:2020p

 

You know I'm a strong advocate for gutter runners..

..But have you considered adding some gutter runners (minimum unit)? Three screaming bells scream (geddit?) overkill next to a Warpseer. Trading one of them out for either 20 more clanrats for your third battleline  (or another 20-rat minimum unit) + gutter runners, or a clawlord + gutter runners will both give you some tactical flexibility in how you want to approach the battle, and forces your opponent to leave part of his forces in the backfield to prevent cheeky steals, which in turn opens up more opportunity for you to shift around with the gnawholes There's also the added benefit that you would no longer be 20 points above the maximum. 

edit: as an alternative if you plan to go heavy spellcasting or something, and don't really care for gutter runners; 2x Warlock Bombadiers (they're still 100? I'm fuzzy on their points) gives you some cheap, scary punch you'll happily sacrifice if need be. 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Mayple

[Skreech Verminking]

53 minutes ago, Mayple said:

You know I'm a strong advocate for gutter runners..

..But have you considered adding some gutter runners (minimum unit)? Three screaming bells scream (geddit?) overkill next to a Warpseer. Trading one of them out for either 20 more clanrats for your third battleline  (or another 20-rat minimum unit) + gutter runners, or a clawlord + gutter runners will both give you some tactical flexibility in how you want to approach the battle, and forces your opponent to leave part of his forces in the backfield to prevent cheeky steals, which in turn opens up more opportunity for you to shift around with the gnawholes There's also the added benefit that you would no longer be 20 points above the maximum. 

edit: as an alternative if you plan to go heavy spellcasting or something, and don't really care for gutter runners; 2x Warlock Bombadiers (they're still 100? I'm fuzzy on their points) gives you some cheap, scary punch you'll happily sacrifice if need be. 

It sounds interesting, but I’m mostly just hoping that my friend will literally just charge forward😜.

his playing fec with a few thousand dragon and flying terrors.

 

[Kirjava13]

1k against Daughters of Khaine later today. Not optimistic. I'm thinking ranged Stormfiends to try and vigourdust/MMMWP the witches to death at range, cc Stormfiends to warpfire thrower them to death and then some spells to plink off the characters. But if he goes Khailebron my shooting will be neutered by the -1 to hit... uncertain. I wonder if the vortex is worth it in such a limited points environment?

Also is it me or this forum about as reliable as a Skaven friendship? I feel like 3/10 times I try to get on, it's down.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Kirjava13
WARP LIGHTNING VORTEX?!?

[Mayple]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

It sounds interesting, but I’m mostly just hoping that my friend will literally just charge forward😜.

his playing fec with a few thousand dragon and flying terrors.

 

If he does that, that's all the more reason to bring more bodies and some gutter runners the gutter runners alone would ruin his day if he rushed forward.

[Skreech Verminking]

32 minutes ago, Mayple said:

If he does that, that's all the more reason to bring more bodies and some gutter runners the gutter runners alone would ruin his day if he rushed forward.

Good to know.

Ill definitely tell them with me next time.

sadly, I was an ideas and didn't bring them with me to work.

well of we go, let’s see if the horned rat stands in my favor again 

 

[Kirjava13]

Ok, going with the Arch-Warlock, 2x3 Stormfiends, 20 Acolytes and the WLC. I'm 20 points over but my opponent doesn't care. Plan is to focus the characters down and use the vortex and the warpfire projectors to take out the inevitable blob of witches. If he goes snake-heavy, I have plenty of mortal wounds to take his expensive two-wound models off the table. 

Trying to mentally prepare for the dice going all 1s...

[Skreech Verminking]

So to shortly summarize, I got a minor victory against my friend,

bit also just barley and only because my plague monks killed a hero and 500p worth of summoning.

edit:I’ll be reporting my victory and tactics tomorrow.

(and to mayple, gutter runner are definitely worth the points, sadly this mission onlywanted wizard to hold them, but will definitely consider taking them next time)

Edited May 10, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Kirjava13]

So I gave him first turn, he moved forwards, I plopped down the WLV and that was the game basically. Between that and Stormfiend shooting, he lost his entire army and I took one wound on a Stormfiend from vigourdust. Dude got so salty about WLV that I said sure, I'll just being a Warlock Bombardier instead, and so we reracked and played a second game, which went about as I expected. I lost everything except the Bombardier and a Stormfiend, he lost his Witch elves and Sisters of Slaughter, with an untouched Cauldron, Medusa and five Khinerai by the end. 

I never enjoy one-sided games but being made to feel guilty for bringing a strong (arguably overpowered) choice against DAUGHTERS OF KHAINE, no less, really spoiled it for me. Sorry, I won't bring the 100 point thing that can be denied, can hurt my own guys and is largely ineffective if you don't bunch up. You carry on with your army-wide FNP and rerolls for everything, it's cool.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Kirjava13

[Mayple]

@Kirjava13 How dare you win any games!? You should get tabled instead, like any self-respecting skaven player. 

While I do agree that WLV is.. let's say problematic, that did sound more like him (kettle) calling the pot black. Congrats on your one-punch win Don't feel guilty for bringing stuff. Do what you feel like doing. You play Skaven, you've earned the right.

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Kirjava13 said:

So I gave him first turn, he moved forwards, I plopped down the WLV and that was the game basically. Between that and Stormfiend shooting, he lost his entire army and I took one wound on a Stormfiend from vigourdust. Dude got so salty about WLV that I said sure, I'll just being a Warlock Bombardier instead, and so we reracked and played a second game, which went about as I expected. I lost everything except the Bombardier and a Stormfiend, he lost his Witch elves and Sisters of Slaughter, with an untouched Cauldron, Medusa and five Khinerai by the end. 

I never enjoy one-sided games but being made to feel guilty for bringing a strong (arguably overpowered) choice against DAUGHTERS OF KHAINE, no less, really spoiled it for me. Sorry, I won't bring the 100 point thing that can be denied, can hurt my own guys and is largely ineffective if you don't bunch up. You carry on with your army-wide FNP and rerolls for everything, it's cool.

Wise man one said, that history was written by  winners.

So who cares if you’re friend/foe is whining about unfair overpowered game play, everybody knows that there never has been any fair play in battle,

mans definitely not when fighting against the skaven forces.

anyways you have written history today my friend, May the great horned rat watch over you in the future.

[Gwendar]

4 hours ago, Kirjava13 said:

Sorry, I won't bring the 100 point thing that can be denied, can hurt my own guys and is largely ineffective if you don't bunch up. You carry on with your army-wide FNP and rerolls for everything, it's cool.

Yeah, I mean WLV may need looking at but I really don't believe it's as bad as people cry about it. I felt bad for using it the first few times but...

...people just still haven't really learned to stop grouping all their heroes together so I keep doing it. In the end, it tends to be the Jezzails, Doomwheel and Acolytes pulling all the weight anyway. Everybody has a strong point and ours is now Magic and shooting, for the most part.

[Saodexan]

5 hours ago, Kirjava13 said:

So I gave him first turn, he moved forwards, I plopped down the WLV and that was the game basically. Between that and Stormfiend shooting, he lost his entire army and I took one wound on a Stormfiend from vigourdust. Dude got so salty about WLV that I said sure, I'll just being a Warlock Bombardier instead, and so we reracked and played a second game, which went about as I expected. I lost everything except the Bombardier and a Stormfiend, he lost his Witch elves and Sisters of Slaughter, with an untouched Cauldron, Medusa and five Khinerai by the end. 

I never enjoy one-sided games but being made to feel guilty for bringing a strong (arguably overpowered) choice against DAUGHTERS OF KHAINE, no less, really spoiled it for me. Sorry, I won't bring the 100 point thing that can be denied, can hurt my own guys and is largely ineffective if you don't bunch up. You carry on with your army-wide FNP and rerolls for everything, it's cool.

Tell him to ally a Knight Incantor to auto unbind the vortex.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Saodexan

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

Starting a PtG soon with Skaven and we're including command traits. The question is, which would be best for a Grey Seer on foot? I like a lot of the options, but I can't yet decide. Any advice?

Edited May 10, 2019 by Thalassic Monstrosity

[mmimzie]

3 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Yeah, I mean WLV may need looking at but I really don't believe it's as bad as people cry about it. I felt bad for using it the first few times but...

...people just still haven't really learned to stop grouping all their heroes together so I keep doing it. In the end, it tends to be the Jezzails, Doomwheel and Acolytes pulling all the weight anyway. Everybody has a strong point and ours is now Magic and shooting, for the most part.

Well what makes it strong is part of the game for many army's is to group heros next to other units to use buffs and other short range skills. Most buffs are range from 6"-18" with optional wholly within.  Many buffs are done in the hero phase meaning your unit needs to be close the turn before you use said buff. 

 

The WLV has a max range from 1 lightning's max reach to the other of 22"

Meaning if you put the buff targetted unit many armies revolve around in the center of the storm every hero trying to buff will very likely be in range of one or more orb.

 

So while don't stack your heros is sage advice to defending it is very much so against the whole game.  So its punishes opponents not because they play poorly, but because they are playing the game the way the game tells them to play. 

 

Even more so even if you kill only 1 single hero model the WLV has paid for itself, and this isnt account for the tactical advantage of smacking a 22" equilateral triangle in the middle of an enemy's  line and forcing them to spread out. 

 

Heck some deployment lines are only ~55" or 48" long. Thats about half the front line space of many lines army's can set up on. 

 

Lastly, unlike many spells that can be unbound, you can every effectively set up a vortex from a range that exceed most unbind ranges with a 26" set up and 7" + 6" set up and effect ranges. 

 

I'd say it should be some where around 160-200pts. 

[Priminister]

On 5/8/2019 at 1:17 AM, Skreech Verminking said:

1) Welcome welcome new meat, you have chosen wisely-good.

Only the skaven are-are the greatest-best Army You could ever dream to play-use.

2)well you won’t need to much melee if your partner is going already that road.

just take a few clanrats as battleline tax. Throw them as the upcoming meathsields in front of your enemy while protecting the snake ladies and the rest of your army is good to go with shooting or anything You like playing with the most.

3)it’s an interesting thought, definitely something worth trying out.

4)looks good👍🏻

5)surely, just take the unit/models with you you really want to try out.

most of our units/models have become very good, and there are definitely a few possibility’s to make a great list with all of those models.

anyways good luck on the event.

now go out there and take-steal victory for the great horned Rat!!

1)Welcome back old, unknown, probably never have met, friend. 

2)that’s a good amount of models you have hear, perfect for building a few list to try out👍🏻😁

3)if your going up with your collection to 2000p I’d recommend you to buy yourselves at least another box of clanrats, which make it possible for you to field the min. Of 3battleline units and with a 100clanrats you’ll have enough meathsields to survive a good amount of time.  And for the rest just go with what you like the most.

4)well one of my favorite loadout for the stormfiends are 1with the warpfire barzziers, 1with the rattling gun, and last but not least 1with the doom flauer gauntlet. This is probaly one of my favorites loadouts, since it gives you the player a unit that can keep up with any units, dealing immense damage to hordes and elites, or better said basically anything that exist on the battlefield.

still if you dislike this kind of load-out, there are still others that can be rather useful.

Thanks for the advice! (Sorry for the late reply!)

Any thoughts on Verminlords, Thanquol, and a Hellpit? thinking of nabbing one of those 3 next! 

[Gwendar]

57 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

I'd say it should be some where around 160-200pts. 

I'd rather it go up in points than be nerfed into oblivion, but I doubt that will happen. Who knows.

I'm well aware of why it is strong and that's why I use it. I can't give any advice to the people I play against other than "well, hope you unbind it next time" or "keep your heroes less clumped" hell, I don't even cast it out of unbind range unless it's a tournament just so they at least have a shot. I got out of NH because I couldn't stand how close range (and the abundance of) wholly within ranges they had.. but it's true that this is the case for most armies. What is it that needs to be changed then, if not the point values?

1 MW and d3 on a unmodified 6 but still keep the range and debuffs?

Tone down the debuffs\range\radius but keep the damage?

It would be the first endless spell to be over 100 points but it could be justified I suppose. Of course, we don't know what these new ones will be capable of doing either, so like all things in this game lately... probably best to wait as something far worse could be around the corner.

[mmimzie]

I mean for as much as the WLV does it could be over 100pts and still be pretty darn great, it just really boost the risk reward of the model quite a lot. Even more so in the tournament scene.  Like it's pts being higher is so reasonable i've repeatedly considered taking and have taken a battalion (claw pack like 300pts i wouldn't spend otherwise) just to get the artifact so that i could auto unbind it once per game.

I think changing how it works isn't nessary it's good and very strong, but nagash is great and strong and also cost a lot. Plus the oppurtinity cost of WLV being very expensive isn't so high as most if not all skaven list are pumping out some where between 4-8 spells per turn, and the verminlords can't even take a 2nd spell, and generally rely on endless spells. 

[Skreech Verminking]

3 hours ago, mmimzie said:

I mean for as much as the WLV does it could be over 100pts and still be pretty darn great, it just really boost the risk reward of the model quite a lot. Even more so in the tournament scene.  Like it's pts being higher is so reasonable i've repeatedly considered taking and have taken a battalion (claw pack like 300pts i wouldn't spend otherwise) just to get the artifact so that i could auto unbind it once per game.

I think changing how it works isn't nessary it's good and very strong, but nagash is great and strong and also cost a lot. Plus the oppurtinity cost of WLV being very expensive isn't so high as most if not all skaven list are pumping out some where between 4-8 spells per turn, and the verminlords can't even take a 2nd spell, and generally rely on endless spells. 

From a slight look at it the warplightning vortex seems to be very strong, and from what I have heard my assumption seem to be correct.

Sadly I didn’t got the WPV off in my game yesterday my friend somehow always has beaten my role by 1, so yeah I guess I’ll never learn how good the spell actually  is😂

maybe next time.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Nikobot]

On 5/9/2019 at 12:26 AM, Gwendar said:

 Often times I will give Deranged Inventor to the Jezzails so I can move them (Gnawhole movement is still movement) 

No it's not. 

It's a setup not a move, so doesn't count as a move except for the fact you can't make an actual move and thus doesn't affect their ability. 

It was dealt with in core rules FAQ under RESERVES section

Q: Some abilities allow you to remove a unit from the battlefield and set it up again, and say that this ‘counts as their move for the movement phase’ (or words to that effect). Do these units count as having made a move for the purposes of any other rules or abilities?
A: No, it simply restricts them from making a move later on.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Nikobot

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, Nikobot said:

No it's not. 

It's a setup not a move, so doesn't count as a move except for the fact you can't make an actual move and thus doesn't affect their ability. 

It was dealt with in core rules FAQ under RESERVES section

Q: Some abilities allow you to remove a unit from the battlefield and set it up again, and say that this ‘counts as their move for the movement phase’ (or words to that effect). Do these units count as having made a move for the purposes of any other rules or abilities?
A: No, it simply restricts them from making a move later on.

I always agreed with that same sentiment, but was always told otherwise. Which was strange considering when I played Wanderers, their allegiance ability and Sisters double attacks had roughly the same rules interaction. I must've missed that FAQ.

Regardless, still lets them move and shoot at full capacity while the Acolytes can get MMMWP.

[Congratz]

Another dumb question! best weapon loadout for Stormfiends?!
I really like the Ratling gun but what about Warpfire and Gas thingy?

[Kirjava13]

5 minutes ago, Congratz said:

Another dumb question! best weapon loadout for Stormfiends?!
I really like the Ratling gun but what about Warpfire and Gas thingy?

We can't specialise our Stormfriends now, so the best we can do is try. My rule of thumb is that a melee unit should have: Grinderfists, Warpfire Projector, Doomflayer/Shock Gauntlets. A shooting unit should have Ratling Guns, Windlaunchers, Doomflayer/Shock Gauntlets. 

Put Vigourdust and More-More-More Warp Power on a big unit of six "shooty" Stormfiends and watch your enemies die-die.

[gronnelg]

Guys! Halp! 

My first tournament tomorrow! 

First round will be Focal points. 

My list:

His list:

What are my keys to doing well here? 

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, gronnelg said:

Guys! Halp! 

My first tournament tomorrow! 

First round will be Focal points. 

My list:

His list:

What are my keys to doing well here? 

Well How should I put it, try and get off your spells especially warpgale, Dreaded Warpgale and Warplightning vortex.

You really don’t want your foe-thing to come near you at all, since he will murder most of your army turn one.

And your lacking the bodies needed to protect your line, especially since you traded 2units of 10Stormvermins for the much better and more reliable clanrat unit’s of 20.

if everything works as planned shoot his Eels, as soon and many times as possible.

those units will be your opponents melee stars in battle, with them gone, he won’t have much left to fight you in close combat, a place you still are better of ignoring.

I’m not sure if your still able to change the list till tomorrow, but succeeding with your spells is something you’ll really need, if changing it isn’t a possibility anymore.

Well still I’ll be rooting for you.

as for any other suggestion, have fun and don’t feel bad if things don’t go your way, your army was anyways trying to betray you, and you the cunning warlord knew it and has send them to their doom anyways😉.

Now go out there and:”

Gewinne für Skreech, 

Ja-Ja, die Zeit ist gekommen, töte-töte die Elfdinge!!

Wir-wir werden triumphieren-gewinnen.

Gewinne für die Gehörnte Ratte!

Triumphiere für deinen Clan!!!”

(Hope that’s how you say it in German?,

My knowledge of that language has gotten a little bit rusty)

Edited May 11, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[gronnelg]

@Skreech VerminkingCast ALL THE SPELLS, kill eels, stay out of combat. Got it! Thanks 🙂 Yeah, I know u should use clanrats instead, but these are all the models I own 😛

Unt ja, Ich will scheise die fisch - elf! 

PS. Your German is way better than mine at any rate 😛