AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Asamu]

18 hours ago, Balloon Dwarf said:

Okay  I've got a game on Saturday at my local games store against a guy who brings a huge khorne bloodthunder stampede. He's bringing about 30 bloodcrushers, a bloodthirster and a skullmaster? Any tips on how to deal with this monstrosity that deals mortal wounds on the charge with the following list? The only options I have available is to add in up to 2 doomwheels somewhere, I've also got a warpfire thrower team and a warp grinder team. 

Allegiance: Skaventide

LEADERS
Arch-Warlock (160) 
- General
- Command Trait : Deranged Inventor 
- Artefact : Vigordust Injector 
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (100) 
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Engineer (100) 
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!

UNITS 
6 x Stormfiends (520)  2x shock gauntlets, 2x windlaunchers, 2x ratling cannons 
3 x Stormfiends (260)  1x doomflayer gauntlets, 1x grinderfist, 1x warpfire thrower
3 x Stormfiends (260)  1x Doomflayer Gauntlets,  1x ratling cannons, 1x warpfire thrower

WAR MACHINES 
Warp Lightning Cannon (180) 
Warp Lightning Cannon (180) 


ENDLESS SPELLS
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)


 TOTAL: 1940/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 104
LEADERS: 3/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 0/4 ARTILLERY: 2/4

I suspect I'm screwed, but any tactical ideas would be nice? 

I'd drop the cannons or one of the 3x stormfiends, an engineer, and lifeswarm for 3x20 clanrats to screen and a grey seer for warpgale so you can cut movement/charge distance in half on a priority target. As long as you don't receive charges from the bloodcrushers, they aren't a huge threat. Once the clanrat screen goes down, you can charge in with the stormfiends to lock things down.  The big unit can delete 1-2 units per turn with shooting as long as you get some buffs off.

If you drop the cannons and lifeswarm for 3x20 clanrats, you're left with 120 points which can be used for the grey seer.

As is, you can likely delete any single unit with the cannons and windlaunchers in each shooting phase, assuming you buff the 6x stormfiends with everything you can; ratling cannons can delete another each shooting phase once they get close enough.

[Num]

3 hours ago, mmimzie said:

This seems quite incorrect?? 

 

 

 

Its a 9.72% chance you explode?? Unless I'm completely missing what you are talking about.

 

 

Yes sorry... I had AnyDice showing the probability to have "at least" and I forgot to turn it off. Its indeed 9.72% risk of exploding

[5kaven5lave]

1 minute ago, Num said:

Yes sorry... I had AnyDice showing the probability to have "at least" and I forgot to turn it off. Its indeed 9.72% risk of exploding

As I just found out in the first cast of turn 1 in my game...

[mmimzie]

28 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

As I just found out in the first cast of turn 1 in my game...

Honestly if it's to cast WLV might just be worth it. 

[Skreech Verminking]

So The battle just ended from a minute ago. We were playing boarder war.

His list was consisting of blood warriors (20) a unit of 10 Bloodreavers, a Bloodsecrator 2Bloodpriest a Lord on juggernaut and basically his deathstar the 9 Skullcrushers.

so having since he had a battailon, he basically finished first giving me the first turn.

the first turn for me was a bit more relaxed then the other ones.

I started trying to cast the dreaded deathfrenzy onto my Stormvermins and plague monks who where protecting my big squad of Stormvermins from charges (or so I hoped), but I sadly failed.

the Screaming bell tried to just cast a normal deathfrenzy on my nearby clanrats which successfully, frenzied my clanrats who where protecting a cannon and 2flamers.

in the movement phase my clanrats Stormvermins and plague monks shuffled a few inches up trying to catch the two objective markers.

in my shooting phase I overcharged my Warplightning cannon who then instantly killed 6Bloodwarriors who weren’t really sure what hit them.

sadly my Bombardier wasn’t in range to shoot his rocket and screamed-squeaked random  orders into the air.

in my opponents first turn, he charged his damaged unit of bloodwarriors into my skaven, hoping to gain the Bloodgod a gaze for a second. Sadly his gaze was meant for another and so the bloodwarriors disappointedly killed 4rats in total, but staying alive in return, since their Armour seemed to be working, which was very unfortunate for my 36rats.

although I had the first turn, the great Horned rats gaze seemed to have missed my glorious plans and so I lost the role of to my enmey. He immediately started to summon his axe and skull prayers , killing of my scream of plague monks which gave way for his now buffed Skullcrushers who where able to reroll there save of 2+, killing of 8of  my Stormvermins in the charge.

they soon attacked and killed another 22stormvermins leaving me with a pile of a joke left.

unsure of what happened I chose my clanrats to attack inflicting no wounds since his bloodwarriors seemed to have some kind of an anti rat Armour.

he then killed of my remaining clanrats with his lord on juggernaut an the rest of his bloodwarriors and blooreavers.

knowing that everything was lost at my left side I retreaded my clawlord ab the Verminlord away trying to reach my right side. Knowing that everything was already lost at that side I choose to let the Storvermins that where left on their own, leaving their faith as peculiar meatshields be.

in my shooting phase my warplightning cannon, who got stuck with the bloddreavers in combat, dealt 10mortal wounds killing them off and freeing itself.

my warpfire thrower weapons teams, weren’t bad either, and chose to kill of his reamaining 10bloodwarriors of in one fell swoop.

and incredibly they both didn’t blow up (first time I got to use them multiple times.

My Verminlord who’s pride was on the line charged his lord on juggernaut activiatimg his brutal furry abilities, but sadly doing only 7wounds to him.

luckily I got the next turn and my flamer burned his lord to pile of black ash.

freeing my Verminlord, who then sadly failed his charge doing nothing.

in my opponents 3rd turn he killed of my remaining Stormvermins and even got my Clawlord who I sadly haven’t frenzied to death. (Those skulls really have a high reputation) on the forth turn I won the roll of , and killed of another priest who got shoot to death by green lightning.

After having Snorted those warpstone sparks, my bombardier who saw him as the greatest overcharged his doomrocket, while laughing in agony, know-thinking he wouldn’t miss. Sadly his own estimated skills where to high for him and so the rocket exploded before it even got shoot, killing of the overly estimated wisenheimer.

in my charge phase my Verminlord made his charge after having rerolled it, choosing to charge my enemy’s death-stars, and right after retreat to the near objective with scurry away, giving me the upper hands for a turn.

sadly my luck ran out and so, my Verminlord died to the mighty axe of khorne furry, while my screaming bell was destroyed by hungry juggernauts charging it.

although I lost I’m very happy to have played the game.

it was fun and also gave me a chance to see what unit is best or be taken for my next upcoming tournament.

although I love The esthetics and fluff of the Stormvermins so so much and can almost not bring to my heart, throwing them out of my list, I sadly have to admit that they cost just too much for what they can do.

the units that really amazed me and in the last few battle did not disappoint me at all, where the flamers.

although only having 3wounds a piece, their damage dealing power, is uncertainly very high.

most of your enemy’s will forget that they even exist until they charge your clanrats.

in very desperate cases this guys can be used to shoot down 1wound left hero’s with a high Armour, giving you a change to free your own units.

the cannon was amazing as well, although it just might be my bad rolling which made it so amazing.

I always overcharged it and always got  10 or more wounds off while it suffered most of the time just 1-2wounds.

its great when the rest of your roles are bad😂.

I think taking 2of them instead of the Stormvermins would be a great charm having seen how my enemy feared the mortal wound dealing cannon.

the Verminlord and Screaming bells, are good.

but I might need some more time and a few more games  before I can decide if they are really worth it.

the clanrats where very good meatshields. Did what they do best for their points (dying😅😂)

Ps: I forgot to take some pics, so yeah it’s just going to be some boring text😅.

 

 

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

So I was looking at jezzails, realistically if my opponent had heroes that were important and needed to be kept alive what could they even do other then staying out of range against a unit of twelve? I mean staying out of range and still being effective isn’t an option for many heroes especially if I move the jezzails, and twelve would do around 6 to 7 wounds to a hero every turn. Other then price it seems unfair honestly. 

 

[hakoMike]

On 2/22/2019 at 11:47 PM, MasterMoulder said:

If you have a local pestilens player ask them, they will likely have a pile of the base ornament rats left over from the plague monk kits. They are a little bit smaller than the official giant rats, but it is all GW so usually not an issue!

It's pretty common to put more than one giant rat on a base too. It gives them a more swarmy look, and avoids the weird looking "single tiny rat on a base" syndrome.

[Gwendar]

2 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

So I was looking at jezzails, realistically if my opponent had heroes that were important and needed to be kept alive what could they even do other then staying out of range against a unit of twelve? I mean staying out of range and still being effective isn’t an option for many heroes especially if I move the jezzails, and twelve would do around 6 to 7 wounds to a hero every turn. Other then price it seems unfair honestly. 

 

Unfair to the other player for being afraid of a ranged unit? How? Their price for what they can do is fair in my opinion. There are other things worse\just as deadly as Jezzails. Unless I'm misunderstanding.

Part of the tactics of this game are using bully units or other mind games to keep them on the back-foot. Same reason horde units don't want to charge Thanquol..they know if they don't kill him, he'll just warpfire them down next turn.

[Balloon Dwarf]

7 hours ago, Asamu said:

I'd drop the cannons or one of the 3x stormfiends, an engineer, and lifeswarm for 3x20 clanrats to screen and a grey seer for warpgale so you can cut movement/charge distance in half on a priority target. As long as you don't receive charges from the bloodcrushers, they aren't a huge threat. Once the clanrat screen goes down, you can charge in with the stormfiends to lock things down.  The big unit can delete 1-2 units per turn with shooting as long as you get some buffs off.

If you drop the cannons and lifeswarm for 3x20 clanrats, you're left with 120 points which can be used for the grey seer.

As is, you can likely delete any single unit with the cannons and windlaunchers in each shooting phase, assuming you buff the 6x stormfiends with everything you can; ratling cannons can delete another each shooting phase once they get close enough.

It's something I'll consider in the future, but at the moment I'm steering clear of clanrats just because I struggle to paint as is and the thought of painting 60 models, however simple, makes me feel ill.

 

Cheers for the advice though! Thank you.

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

1 hour ago, Gwendar said:

Unfair to the other player for being afraid of a ranged unit? How? Their price for what they can do is fair in my opinion. There are other things worse\just as deadly as Jezzails. Unless I'm misunderstanding.

Part of the tactics of this game are using bully units or other mind games to keep them on the back-foot. Same reason horde units don't want to charge Thanquol..they know if they don't kill him, he'll just warpfire them down next turn.

I remember skydives being particularly bothersome at some point, ranged units with 6 up abilities tend to be uncounterable for heroes in this game. Even a 4 up ward save only keep Death off for a turn lol. So I was wondering if they had any counter other then “don’t go near them” 

alpha strikes seem effective, not relying on heroes is another one, and blocking line of sight is a third option (that really isn’t an option it’s luck based on terrain). Was wondering other things that counter them specifically 

[Gwendar]

51 minutes ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

I remember skydives being particularly bothersome at some point, ranged units with 6 up abilities tend to be uncounterable for heroes in this game. Even a 4 up ward save only keep Death off for a turn lol. So I was wondering if they had any counter other then “don’t go near them” 

alpha strikes seem effective, not relying on heroes is another one, and blocking line of sight is a third option (that really isn’t an option it’s luck based on terrain). Was wondering other things that counter them specifically 

I mean, they're pretty paper thin so deepstriking against them can wipe them out rather quickly and I would say this is the top weakness. I don't really think they need more weaknesses or there would really be no point in using them.. the whole point is that they are a paper-thin unit with long range damage. Charge a chaff unit into them and they won't shoot at heroes\elites. Hero-sniping is less of an issue compared to aos 1 in my opinion. They can re-fulfill this role in aos 2 which has heroes being more important across the board but overall shooting is not as prevalent as it once was.

Outside of deepstriking\charging with chaff, there isn't much countering that I can see.  A couple of players around here know what they do and just hide behind stuff and summon.. although Gnawholes have proven a counter to this as I can hit them with a buff to give them back their hit re-rolls, teleport and then snipe whatever is hiding.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Gwendar

[Lord Krungharr]

I used Skaventide for the first time yesterday at Adepticon here in Chicagoland, USA in the Vanguard event (1000 points).  I used Clan Eshin (Warpseer general, Deceiver with Ignax's Scales, 2x20 Gutter Runners, Vermintide).  It was super fun to use them, as I think Skaventide is a thinking man's army; kinda the opposite of Legion of Azgorh which I've been playing for 6 or 8 months now.  

Their movement options throughout the game are very useful and the verminlords are really great support monsters.  They can't actually kill that much in combat but I'd call them 'anvils'.  

Gutter Runners are pretty killy, and can hang in there when needed vs non rend attacks.  I found the Warpseer's extra CPs essential! Looking forward to painting 40 more Gutter Runners, 20 Night Runners, and a Deathmaster to make the Slinktalon for 2000 points!

[mmimzie]

I wonder if multiple units of clan rats could hold an army up mostly on there own?? 

 

With a clawlord, double death frenzy, and warbringer buff you can have clan rats packing a real punch, and it lets you be rather flexible with where you apply your damage, even more so with access to retreat and charge. 

 

Like a clan rat unit that attack and double death frenzies ever model will put out more damage than plague monks (not a likely thing to happen), but what you lose in punch is flexibility of where your damage comes from. 

Edited March 30, 2019 by mmimzie

[Laststand]

10 hours ago, Balloon Dwarf said:

I'm steering clear of clanrats just because I struggle to paint as is and the thought of painting 60 models, however simple, makes me feel ill.

 

They are really easy and quite fun to paint. I followed this and managed to paint 40 (2x batches of 20) in under 4 hours for the lot. It could have been faster but I faffed around with some details and added another colour. I have another 40 to do but it should go quickly too.  

[Gwendar]

@Balloon Dwarf I know what you mean, but guides like the one @Laststand linked work well.

Before settling on my new scheme, I followed this guide (and to this day I still do a slightly modified method of painting for pretty much everything): 
https://jesterpaintingstudio.weebly.com/blog/how-to-speed-paint-skaven

This method can get you 20 Clanrats fully painted (aside from basing) in just a few hours and you don't have to strain yourself painting in little details or the need to touch up certain areas. Most of my painting now-a-days consists of creating a value sketch, washes\glazes and drybrushing.

[Skreech Verminking]

There’s an even lazier way of painting your clanrats.

For example I’ve been using the leather brown spray from army painter, giving most of my clanrats their fur color.

next step is to just base with any kind of color  your pieces of clothes, and finish of your basing with an basecoat of fleshcolour on their tail.

your model now only needs it weapon painted with the standard grey tone and your model is almost finished just needing some lovingly placed touch of Agra’s earth shade.

youll be finishing of each models in about 5-minutes and your models will still look good enough for the battle field.

her we have a pic of some clanrats painted that way: 

Edited March 30, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Skavelynn]

10 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

There’s an even lazier way of painting your clanrats.

For example I’ve been using the leather brown spray from army painter, giving most of my clanrats their fur color.

next step is to just base with any kind of color  your pieces of clothes, and finish of your basing with an basecoat of fleshcolour on their tail.

your model now only needs it weapon painted with the standard grey tone and your model is almost finished just needing some lovingly placed touch of Agra’s earth shade.

youll be finishing of each models in about 5-minutes and your models will still look good enough for the battle field.

Yes! I do that exact paint scheme for my clanrats, except I spray them black and do an all over heavy drybrush of brown, and I use ushabti bone for the eyes, teeth, and to drybrush the fur. I find the bone color makes the eyes 'pop' more than red since the model is mostly darker colors. I personally really like the dark and gritty look to the clanrats.

 I could probably do an entire unit of 40 in one day with the scheme if I am motivated enough and have the time (although that never happens 😆). 

[kenshin620]

On the topic of painting hundreds of clanrats, I am very curious what mad science GW has up their sleeve with that cryptic painting video....

I mean I highly doubt Citadel paints is at the forefront of painting technology. But hey maybe they'll make painting 120 plague monks bearable!

[basement dweller]

Any recommendations for a pure moulder list?  Im thinking 2 masters, bell, 80 giant rats, 6 rat ogres, hell pit abomination, storm fiends ( for a little shooting), 6 rat swarms (cuz i want to), 3 packmasters and fleshmeld menagerie battalion.  

Thats 1980.  Any recommendations or must haves?  I do like the endless spells so could make room.  Theres no real scary heroes in this...and maybe another master would be safer if someone is hunting them....

Want to get some advice before i start painting it all....

[Baron Wastelands]

6 hours ago, basement dweller said:

Any recommendations for a pure moulder list?  Im thinking 2 masters, bell, 80 giant rats, 6 rat ogres, hell pit abomination, storm fiends ( for a little shooting), 6 rat swarms (cuz i want to), 3 packmasters and fleshmeld menagerie battalion.  

Thats 1980.  Any recommendations or must haves?  I do like the endless spells so could make room.  Theres no real scary heroes in this...and maybe another master would be safer if someone is hunting them....

Want to get some advice before i start painting it all....

Stormfiends shooting without Skryre command/artifact is a bit lacklustre, so I’m not sure I would bother. If you want fiends in a moulder list, I’d take a more combat orientated Loadout, like shock+warpfire+grinder. 80 giant rats is good, I really like units of 40. Aboms are great, think you’d like another one instead of rat swarms, but your choice 😉

not sure I’d take a bell in a moulder list; I guess you want it for the battleshock immunity, so you’d be surrounding it with giant rats ... the rest doesn’t really need it, even rat ogres when accompanied by a Master moulder. Rat ogres are surprisingly good, especially when accompanied.

[Gwendar]

12 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

On the topic of painting hundreds of clanrats, I am very curious what mad science GW has up their sleeve with that cryptic painting video....

I mean I highly doubt Citadel paints is at the forefront of painting technology. But hey maybe they'll make painting 120 plague monks bearable!

I think most of us are assuming it's an airbrush but there's plenty of theories going around. Luckily I decided on my super simple selective desaturation scheme for all my Skaven so whatever they come out with can hopefully be used for my other 3 armies I'm working on.

[Nikobot]

7 hours ago, basement dweller said:

Any recommendations for a pure moulder list?  I'm thinking 2 masters, bell, 80 giant rats, 6 rat ogres, hell pit abomination, storm fiends ( for a little shooting), 6 rat swarms (cuz i want to), 3 packmasters and fleshmeld menagerie battalion.  

Thats 1980.  Any recommendations or must haves?  I do like the endless spells so could make room.  Theres no real scary heroes in this...and maybe another master would be safer if someone is hunting them....

Want to get some advice before i start painting it all....

the giant rats are nothing but wounds now, id recommend some smaller units as speed humps/screens

stormfiends without skryre buffs are probably not the greatest, i wouldnt expect too much from the shooting

rat ogres + packmaster's +1 hit + rabid crown can do some heavy damage

if you are trying to include spells and are thinking masterclan general.. then OK.

otherwise consider, drop a lot of Giant rats+bell, bring in 3x20 clanrats to meet battleline, include a warlock and now you can seriously buff your fiends, if you make him general then even more so... i know its not pure moulder then, just ideas

[basement dweller]

2 hours ago, Baron Wastelands said:

Stormfiends shooting without Skryre command/artifact is a bit lacklustre, so I’m not sure I would bother. If you want fiends in a moulder list, I’d take a more combat orientated Loadout, like shock+warpfire+grinder. 80 giant rats is good, I really like units of 40. Aboms are great, think you’d like another one instead of rat swarms, but your choice 😉

not sure I’d take a bell in a moulder list; I guess you want it for the battleshock immunity, so you’d be surrounding it with giant rats ... the rest doesn’t really need it, even rat ogres when accompanied by a Master moulder. Rat ogres are surprisingly good, especially when accompanied.

Thank you.  I thought a second Abom was a good idea but not sure want to paint 2...

Im okay to drop the bell...would want some magic and the greyseer is the only way.  An unmounted one would save me some points.

Im good with a hth load out of the storm fiends....i have 6 so dont mind building all 6 variants...back to hating repeat painting.

Thank you....

[basement dweller]

51 minutes ago, Nikobot said:

the giant rats are nothing but wounds now, id recommend some smaller units as speed humps/screens

stormfiends without skryre buffs are probably not the greatest, i wouldnt expect too much from the shooting

rat ogres + packmaster's +1 hit + rabid crown can do some heavy damage

if you are trying to include spells and are thinking masterclan general.. then OK.

otherwise consider, drop a lot of Giant rats+bell, bring in 3x20 clanrats to meet battleline, include a warlock and now you can seriously buff your fiends, if you make him general then even more so... i know its not pure moulder then, just ideas

ive got clan rats and will be doing a second list with them and guns.  Im going to try and keep this as moulder as i can as long as its fun to play and not wiped off the board everytime.

Some screening units is a good idea...ill have to think about how best to do that.

I could do more rat ogres...just want some variaty in painting and models on the table as well...plus a ****** ton of giant rats....

Thank you for your perspective...helps me see things differently...

[gronnelg]

Alright guys! I need halp! Gonna participate in my first tournament in mid may. 
2k points, three rounds. A friend of mine is bringing Sylvaneth, there's gonna be som LoN, and probably Dok, FEC, and more. 
I dont have a great unit selection as of yet, so I'm gonna get owned 0-3. But that's fine. I'm there for the fun!

So I have the following units:

20 clanrats, 20 stormvermin, 20 plague monks, 3 stormfiends, 1 WLC, 1 WLC/catapult, 1 warlock bombardier, 1 warpseer, 1 grey seer, 1 plague furnace, 1 doomwheel. I also have balewind vortex, WLV, vermintide, doombell. 

Realm artefacts are allowed, but we're not playing with the realm rules. 

What do you think about this list? Any tactical pointers will be appreciated.
 

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Grey Seer (120)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic 
- Lore of Ruin: Plague
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
- Artefact: Snoutgrovel Robes 
Warlock Bombardier (100)
Plague Priest on Plague Furnace (180)

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
10 x Stormvermin (140)
- Halberd
10 x Stormvermin (140)
- Halberd

Units
20 x Plague Monks (140)
- Foetid Blades
3 x Stormfiends (260)

War Machines
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Endless Spells
Balewind Vortex (40)
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)
Vermintide (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 129

My idea was to stick the grey seer on the balewind near a gnawhole. What artefacts should I get?