AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

Also mixed skaven are prolly high tier 2 or tier 1 once people stop complaining about new FEC and play against some tooled up lists 😂 but pure pestilens (or any pure list in the skaven book) is tier 2 to me

and although running 300 monks sounds like fun I’m pretty sure I know a tzeentch list that would beat you on wizard only objectives and a legion of azgorh list that would kill you as much as you are killing them point for point. And also a legion list that would beat you overall for how many models in game (but not starting, only after casualties for both sides) and therefore might win board control XD, and the legion of Asgorh list isn’t even that different to what i’d run normally so challenge double accepted let me buy and paint up almost as many dwarves as you are bringing monks 

5 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Challenge accepted.

my list will consist of:

1Grey seer:120p(deathfrenzy cloak of something and verminus valour)

8x40Plagye monks:1920 (all with blades)

now i only need to buy another 6-8boxes of plague monks and somehow manage a week without food🤮 (I think my purse hates my 🥶)

 

Lol fight me mate

8 hours ago, Donut Assassin said:

mixed skaven and Pestilens are both T1. If I owned 200+ plague monks, I would be playing them. Take battalion for the main purpose of being a low drop army and go first, run 200  monks up the board. Should be next to impossible to lose any games if you focus on objectives. You do average 33 mortal wounds back Just for having guys die in combat phase lol. Take a warpseer and give him trait to pass wounds to nearby rats, and artifact for additional 5++, keep him alive for the big no battleshock bubble. So plague furnace and 5x40 monks with congregation battalion, + warpseer is 1800 pts and 2 drops. Take WLV + 10 monks added into battalion or whatever else. I would keep it 2 drop tho. 235 wounds in a list. Let’s not forget gnaw holes and threatening to throw 40 monks into their back lines if they engage your front ranks. Everything about this is T1. 

I mean if that was unbeatable I think all those lists who could do all that before the battletome would’ve won more tournaments... everyone does know that monks before book could take all the options in a unit of ten instead of 1/20 like it is now? And that they could take a scroll giving re rolls to wound once per game? And that they had mortal wounds on their basic attacks? And that wither stacked plus on to wound on enemy units? And that monks could die and still attack? 

200 plague monks isn’t a new idea, it’s a good list but not auto win (it does however destroy khaine which is hilarious!!! Thinking that can be a top tier army pshhawww they fish food)

gnawholes and spells are the only new tool they got...

awesome in theory, is just in line with others tournament lists in practice (from what I’ve seen)

[Zinnar]

So, I've been playing this 1000pt list for a few weeks now, and it's surprisingly strong. Admittedly I've yet to win, but I attribute that to the fact that I'm typically facing an army that is a pretty hard counter to a lot of this list (Nighthaunt). I also don't have Gnawholes yet, since I'm determined not to buy anything until I finish painting my models, and those would help immensely with mobility.

Grey Seer (120)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Staff of Rightful Supremacy
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
3 x Stormfiends (260)
20 x Skryre Acolytes (240)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

 

The way this typically works is that the Grey Seer buffs the Stormfiends with Mystic Shield and Death Frenzy turn 1, and they act as an anvil while the Acolytes, Warp Lightning Cannon, and Engineers dish out damage and mortal wounds. In later turns the Stormfiends get Death Frenzy, and a unit they are locked in combat with gets Withered, to increase their survivability.

I've also experimented with the Snoutgrovel robes, which can keep command points free to use for charge rolls, or getting an automatic 6" run on the Acolytes.

Acolytes buffed with a warpstone spark and More-more-more Warp Power! are very dangerous. Hell, even if they don't get the spell, they can still do work.

I'm pretty happy with it, but I have to play pretty intelligently. If my Acolytes get charged, it's pretty much over, so I have to work as hard as possible to distract my opponent with the Stormfiends. I typically run the fiends with a Ratling Gun, Warpfire Thrower, and Shock Gauntlets, but I'm considering switching the gun to Grinderfists- not to tunnel, but to do more damage in melee.

[Kugane]

14 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Challenge accepted.

my list will consist of:

1Grey seer:120p(deathfrenzy cloak of something and verminus valour)

8x40Plagye monks:1920 (all with blades)

now i only need to buy another 6-8boxes of plague monks and somehow manage a week without food🤮 (I think my purse hates my 🥶)

 

And another week of your life busy cleaning moldlines of hundreds of underlings. Moldlines are the wrong kind of mold pestilens likes.

[Skreech Verminking]

8 hours ago, Kugane said:

And another week of your life busy cleaning moldlines of hundreds of underlings. Moldlines are the wrong kind of mold pestilens likes.

And so the torture begins

18 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

 Lol fight me mate

 If possible, I would love to.

 

[mmimzie]

Did we ever figure if the two death frenzies stacked? 

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, mmimzie said:

Did we ever figure if the two death frenzies stacked? 

Well the faq never mentioned it so, I guess from a raw perspective and on tournamanets it should be possible to stack’ em.

(although i wouldn’t use it in friendly battle, probably to hard)

Edited March 20, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

12 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

 

 If possible, I would love to.

 

Do you live near Nova Scotia 😆

[Skreech Verminking]

2 minutes ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

Do you live near Nova Scotia 😆

Edit: Canada sounds great, jus so far away from Europe😅.

well maybe in a few years when I can actually  afford such a flight and after I visited Dave and the rest from Miniwargaming, heard that they are quit a welcoming bunch

Edited March 20, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Edit: Canada sounds great, jus so far away from Europe😅.

well maybe in a few years when I can actually  afford such a flight and after I visited Dave and the rest from Miniwargaming, heard that they are quit a welcoming bunch

Lol I’ll be waiting 

[Overread]

Just a heads up for any in the UK - TrollTrader has around 10 pairs of Rat Ogres from Island of Blood up for sale in 2 unit sets at present. They appear nicely made and are sprayed in a dark brown colour; they are priced very nicely for the pair (around £10 which is a lot less than they often go for when being bid for even though they are undercoated). 

[Gwendar]

Anyone look into the SAGT results with Dan Brewer coming #1? The list is intriguing to me and it's interesting to see a Doomwheel.. I've been considering giving mine a shot but I tend to prefer better shooting. I still really want to give 6-9 Stormfiends a go, but I have a feeling that Jezzails + Acolytes can produce a similar enough effect and still allow me to take plenty of Clanrats for objectives since that's the name of the game in the long run.

Assuming the rest of my bits come in from overseas to make the Acolytes, I think I'll be giving this a shot in the coming weeks:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Arch-Warlock (160)
- General
- Trait: Deranged Inventor 
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector 
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (200)
- Lore of Ruin: Warpgale

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)
30 x Skryre Acolytes (320)

Endless Spells
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 179
 

Quite obviously based on Dan's list with the removal of the Doomwheel in favor of more shooting. The overlapping buffs from the Warlock ensure the Jezzails or Acolytes get buffed from something assuming MMMWP doesn't go off, but he will be a pretty big target. BS immunity redundancy from the Warpseer and Bell allow you to be safe against any T1 charge shenanigans and really allow you split your army more effectively later on. It will definitely be all about picking targets, but the Jezzails ability to kill elites\heroes coupled with the Acolytes horde\whatever-they-want deleting abilities lead to some scary situations for your opponent if they don't watch what they're doing.

People continue to underestimate the Clanrats retreat + charge and I can't tell you how many times that has won me games so having 100-120 of them is a must in my opinion. Thoughts?

[mmimzie]

1 hour ago, Gwendar said:

Anyone look into the SAGT results with Dan Brewer coming #1? The list is intriguing to me and it's interesting to see a Doomwheel.. I've been considering giving mine a shot but I tend to prefer better shooting. I still really want to give 6-9 Stormfiends a go, but I have a feeling that Jezzails + Acolytes can produce a similar enough effect and still allow me to take plenty of Clanrats for objectives since that's the name of the game in the long run.

Assuming the rest of my bits come in from overseas to make the Acolytes, I think I'll be giving this a shot in the coming weeks:

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Arch-Warlock (160)
- General
- Trait: Deranged Inventor 
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector 
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (200)
- Lore of Ruin: Warpgale

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)
30 x Skryre Acolytes (320)

Endless Spells
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 179
 

Quite obviously based on Dan's list with the removal of the Doomwheel in favor of more shooting. The overlapping buffs from the Warlock ensure the Jezzails or Acolytes get buffed from something assuming MMMWP doesn't go off, but he will be a pretty big target. BS immunity redundancy from the Warpseer and Bell allow you to be safe against any T1 charge shenanigans and really allow you split your army more effectively later on. It will definitely be all about picking targets, but the Jezzails ability to kill elites\heroes coupled with the Acolytes horde\whatever-they-want deleting abilities lead to some scary situations for your opponent if they don't watch what they're doing.

People continue to underestimate the Clanrats retreat + charge and I can't tell you how many times that has won me games so having 100-120 of them is a must in my opinion. Thoughts?

Retreat + charge is amazing. Getting that not entirely insignifigant damage where you want is great, but more importantly you are always where you need to be as skaven. 

[5kaven5lave]

1 hour ago, Gwendar said:

Anyone look into the SAGT results with Dan Brewer coming #1? The list is intriguing to me and it's interesting to see a Doomwheel.. I've been considering giving mine a shot but I tend to prefer better shooting. I still really want to give 6-9 Stormfiends a go, but I have a feeling that Jezzails + Acolytes can produce a similar enough effect and still allow me to take plenty of Clanrats for objectives since that's the name of the game in the long run.

Assuming the rest of my bits come in from overseas to make the Acolytes, I think I'll be giving this a shot in the coming weeks:

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Arch-Warlock (160)
- General
- Trait: Deranged Inventor 
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector 
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (200)
- Lore of Ruin: Warpgale

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)
30 x Skryre Acolytes (320)

Endless Spells
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 179
 

Quite obviously based on Dan's list with the removal of the Doomwheel in favor of more shooting. The overlapping buffs from the Warlock ensure the Jezzails or Acolytes get buffed from something assuming MMMWP doesn't go off, but he will be a pretty big target. BS immunity redundancy from the Warpseer and Bell allow you to be safe against any T1 charge shenanigans and really allow you split your army more effectively later on. It will definitely be all about picking targets, but the Jezzails ability to kill elites\heroes coupled with the Acolytes horde\whatever-they-want deleting abilities lead to some scary situations for your opponent if they don't watch what they're doing.

People continue to underestimate the Clanrats retreat + charge and I can't tell you how many times that has won me games so having 100-120 of them is a must in my opinion. Thoughts?

I think it looks good man, cool list. What I’m looking into at the moment is finding some points and swapping an Arch-Warlock for a Bombardier and an Engineer to build in some redundancy with MMWP. 

This is what I’m gonna have a go with at the weekend:

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic  
- Artefact: Suspicious Stone  
Grey Seer (120)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap
Warlock Bombardier (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear

Units
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
30 x Skryre Acolytes (320)

War Machines
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Endless Spells
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)
Vermintide (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 173
 

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, mmimzie said:

Retreat + charge is amazing. Getting that not entirely insignifigant damage where you want is great, but more importantly you are always where you need to be as skaven. 

I never expect them to do damage but if they do it's a nice bonus. Learning to swing around a unit and only keep 1-3 Clanrats in range to minimize damage taken is really key to making the most of them. At that point your options are generally; Run a 14" retreat to hit a far back objective or re-consolidate them (to continue minimizing damage taken and move closer to a held objective) with a standard retreat + charge.

I really do love them and just need to keep practicing with them.. a Screaming Bell for support should work well.

1 hour ago, 5kaven5lave said:

I think it looks good man, cool list. What I’m looking into at the moment is finding some points and swapping an Arch-Warlock for a Bombardier and an Engineer to build in some redundancy with MMWP. 

I've considered doing the same but there isn't much room for 2 of them unless I drop something that I would rather keep hold of. Of course, I usually do like for my Warpseer to be my General solely for the VV +Stone tankiness that he provides.. but we'll see how the Arch-Warlock trait + artifact combo pays off. To most people, the Warpseer or Bell are big enough carnifexs (which is magnified by their ability to negate BS and keep the Clanrats around) that they may largely ignore the Arch-Warlock until they figure out his purpose.

In your case, having 2 Engineers is probably better anyway since you have 2 WLC's to overcharge. The jezzails largely act without support unless they need to move which would make them a good candidate for Deranged Inventor.

Let us know how your games go. Curious to see what the Acolytes do for you.. I would run Monks if I felt like dealing with the amount of time resolving attacks would take but my opponents and I generally don't have that kind of time.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Gwendar

[IneptusAstartes]

How do pure Moulder armies look? Obviously not competitive, mind, but the thought of a non-horde Skaven army full of Frankensteined monsters has a certain appeal. I’m considering babby’s first Skaven army, and playing Nurgle my first thought was Pestilens, but I’m not thrilled about preparing hundreds of plague monks. 

[Xasto]

Sorry if this has been answered before, but what is the generally prefered loadout for Stormfiends? Any general consensus at all?

 

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, IneptusAstartes said:

How do pure Moulder armies look? Obviously not competitive, mind, but the thought of a non-horde Skaven army full of Frankensteined monsters has a certain appeal. I’m considering babby’s first Skaven army, and playing Nurgle my first thought was Pestilens, but I’m not thrilled about preparing hundreds of plague monks. 

With Moulder you'll be doing hundreds of Giant Rats unless you plan to just run tons of Rat Ogres. Moulder has some decent effectiveness with a Hell Pit Abomination and Rat Ogres, but outside of that you're generally better off taking Clanrats. That said, with hordes of Giant Rats dying in droves, you have the potential to bring the entire unit back when it dies, same with Rat Ogres.. so there is some merit if that goes off.

1 hour ago, Xasto said:

Sorry if this has been answered before, but what is the generally prefered loadout for Stormfiends? Any general consensus at all?

 

It would seem to be Ratling Guns + Windlauncher + Doomflayers\Shock Gauntlets (whatever your preference between those 2) but I stick with shock gauntlets. Stick them in units of 6-9, buff them with MMMWP + Vigordust and you'll be doing quite a lot of shooting. If the fight moves to combat these same buffs will also make them not totally useless in that regard either.

[kenshin620]

57 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

With Moulder you'll be doing hundreds of Giant Rats unless you plan to just run tons of Rat Ogres. Moulder has some decent effectiveness with a Hell Pit Abomination and Rat Ogres, but outside of that you're generally better off taking Clanrats. That said, with hordes of Giant Rats dying in droves, you have the potential to bring the entire unit back when it dies, same with Rat Ogres.. so there is some merit if that goes off.

You dont have to take huge units of giant rats, a few people here mentioned taking 10 strong rat units for screens.

[Gwendar]

16 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

You dont have to take huge units of giant rats, a few people here mentioned taking 10 strong rat units for screens.

"unless you plan to just run tons of Rat Ogres" the idea with that statement was that you would be running minimum units of Giant Rats and take more of everything else. I guess I could've conveyed that a little better.

Something can be said for Wolf Rats as well.. we have a guy around here that plays around 500-1k Moulder and takes a unit of 10 which tends to be his workhorse most of the time.

[kenshin620]

Too bad Stormfiends aren't Pack units. Literally one keyword away from receiving all the Moulder buffs! I suppose you could tote one unit for some shooting.

[Inquisitorsz]

I've done the maths on fully buffed units of Jezzails... It's pretty disgusting.  

It's something like 9 Jezzails = 17.3 wounds and 3 mortal wounds on average when buffed with +1 to hit, rerolls to hit/wound, +1 damage. 
at 30in range and -2 rend. 

You'll melt or at least seriously hobble most heroes who don't have a decent ward save or a 2+ armor save. 
You'll pretty much wipe out most low model count elite units 
And you'll put anything else in significant threat of serious battleshock damage. 

also you take damage from 2 of those buffs next turn so the unit's power goes down a bit, but it's probably worth it to delete a support character every turn. 
if you lose 2 each turn to the buff damage, you're still doing 15.5 + 2.3 wound next turn and 11.1 + 1.6 the following turn. 

As for 30 acolytes, I know they look great on paper, especially buffed but I can't see it being easy to use their 8" range, especially on a table that has another 100 clan rats all over it. 
Run and shoot is great of course but I just feel a unit that size would be difficult to use. Maybe it's just a matter of charging something, wiping it out in shooting and hoping to stay alive that way. 

Doom wheels..... I think they are pretty fun.  4D6 movement is random of course but it's a decent average and huge potential to suddenly pop up somewhere unexpected. The damage output is random but I think if you maybe have 2 doomwheels coming down a flank, they can be a big problem for your opponent. 
I do agree that a warp lighning cannon is probably a better use of almost the same points though. 
Doomwheel is a much cooler unit though and makes for a more interesting army visiually, espeically if you don't have any other centerpice units like verminlords, bells/furnaces or hell pits. Though I think almost every army will have at least 1 of those (or thanquol). 

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, Inquisitorsz said:

As for 30 acolytes, I know they look great on paper, especially buffed but I can't see it being easy to use their 8" range, especially on a table that has another 100 clan rats all over it. 
Run and shoot is great of course but I just feel a unit that size would be difficult to use. Maybe it's just a matter of charging something, wiping it out in shooting and hoping to stay alive that way. 

Doom wheels..... I think they are pretty fun.  4D6 movement is random of course but it's a decent average and huge potential to suddenly pop up somewhere unexpected. The damage output is random but I think if you maybe have 2 doomwheels coming down a flank, they can be a big problem for your opponent. 
I do agree that a warp lighning cannon is probably a better use of almost the same points though. 
Doomwheel is a much cooler unit though and makes for a more interesting army visiually, espeically if you don't have any other centerpice units like verminlords, bells/furnaces or hell pits. Though I think almost every army will have at least 1 of those (or thanquol). 

In practice it works better than it seems (I've ran 20 before the update). 30 allows you a little wiggle-room to getting shot at before they can drop their payload on a juicy target and leaves them with room to take the damage from buffs. If you auto-run them 6" you're looking at a 20" threat range which isn't too bad.. it may be best to run with the smaller Clanrat unit in front unless you need to use them to stand behind to protect from deepstrike shenanigans.

It's fun for sure, and I'll definitely mess with it, but during competitive play it'll probably stay at home. I do wonder have a feeling running more than 1 would definitely make them more worth it as a whole. I just really dislike the random movement.. although due to shooting it doesn't hurt as bad as an HPA rolling a 2" move.

[Inquisitorsz]

Yeah I feel like a hellpit is more annoying in terms of random movement. 
The normal distribution curve for 4D6 is so much nicer than 2D6. 
For a doom wheel, you have like a 90% chance to go 10" or more.  
14" is the average of course but if you compare with the average of the HPA (7) the doom wheel has a 98.8% chance of rolling 7" or more.

So if you wanna talk averages, the doomwheels have a minimum threat range of 17" and average threat range of 27" and a max threat range of 47". 
It's the random shots that's the problem.... but again, perhaps with some buffs, D6 shots doing D3 damage has some potential. High variance but possibly high reward. Even if it's just a distraction, that's probably worth it more than some screen unit or clan rats the opponents can kind of ignore. It also becomes a bit of a bomb when it gets low on health because then you don't mind overcharging the shooting. 

I think Hellpits are best used via a gnawhole. good opponents will block them of course, but if you can drop a hellpit 9" away from the enemy, it makes his job of getting across the table much easier.  

[Gwendar]

Locally it could serve as a good distraction but I feel that against any higher tier opponent, the threat of 40 Clanrats holding an objective will outweigh a Doomwheel to them. It definitely serves a purpose(s) but I'm still on board with bringing a WLC instead.

I still need to build my HPA but I'm really excited to try it out. It will most definitely get focused down but the look on an opponents face when it comes back?

...oh man, it'll be great.

[Num]

Hello all

I have a weird event coming up. It is a double (2v2), 500 points each. But it seems that we are going to be paired randomly. So I have to design a 500pts list that could match with about anything...

Do you think that it is worth specializing still? At the risk of being matched with someone specialized the same way?

• For instance horde: 1 clawlord, 80 clanrats. Or 1 master moulder, 80 giant rats
• Or snipe with a warp-lightning cannon
• Or magic with WLV, balewind and wizards jumping from gnawholes to gnawholes

Or should I try diversifying instead?

• 40 clanrats + snipe + magic
• 40 giant rats + 4 rat ogors + master moulder

 

I am lost... I never played 2v2 before (let alone with random pairing) so I don't really know how to approach this

Thanks for your input