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11 hours ago, Inquisitorsz said:

I'm assuming that the suspicious stone stacks with protection of the horned rat... Perhaps that might get FAQed because the rule wording is identical. I dunno if there's a precedent for that. 

Unless they decide to change other FNP saves that stack then I don't see it changing really. Considering the MW spam that this game continues to move towards, I would think we would start seeing this more often on top of more units having MW saves.

7 hours ago, Verminlord said:

Thoughts?

Anyone use the new HPA yet? Seems very strong but I'm not sure if it's auto-include material.

I usually run gutter runners in groups of 20, but couldn't fit them without removing HPA.  Anyone use 10ers?

I like it on paper. I'm ordering my HPA today possibly so I will be giving it a try in the coming weeks. I don't believe it's an auto-include but it does seem to be a great deal for it's points as it can go after hordes or single targets\elites reasonably well. Getting a 5-6 for it to not die is a nice bonus but I wouldn't rely on it.

I've used 10 Gutter Runners in the past but nowadays I'm mostly just using 20. 10 works exceptionally well as a distraction\harassing unit and they can snatch objectives from weak units typically as their combat stats are decent.

Edited by Gwendar
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Howdy folks wanted a quick opinion. So i saw on warhammer weekly that they said the default verminlord to summon with the bell's 12 roll would be skreech, but i'm not quite so sure?? The appeal of him summoning wise would be that he lets you set up some clan rats to get objectives, and outside of thath e's another sorta generic verminlord. In my listh is command ability is kind of useless as i already run the warbringer. 

Was wondering what you folks think is the best verminlord to bring onto the table??

My vote is Deciever, while expensive to pay for, free he's pretty great.  Dread skitter leap lets you summon him and immediate go aggressive, while he also has a shooting attack. Making his immediate impact on the state of the game pretty aggressive.

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2 hours ago, mmimzie said:

Howdy folks wanted a quick opinion. So i saw on warhammer weekly that they said the default verminlord to summon with the bell's 12 roll would be skreech, but i'm not quite so sure?? The appeal of him summoning wise would be that he lets you set up some clan rats to get objectives, and outside of thath e's another sorta generic verminlord. In my listh is command ability is kind of useless as i already run the warbringer. 

Was wondering what you folks think is the best verminlord to bring onto the table??

My vote is Deciever, while expensive to pay for, free he's pretty great.  Dread skitter leap lets you summon him and immediate go aggressive, while he also has a shooting attack. Making his immediate impact on the state of the game pretty aggressive.

I agree with you completely. Deceiver is my go to for the bell summon. Skitterleap can teleport heros out of dangerous situations too or on to neglected objectives.

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On 3/15/2019 at 6:30 AM, Verminlord said:

Anyone use the new HPA yet? Seems very strong but I'm not sure if it's auto-include material.

I usually run gutter runners in groups of 20, but couldn't fit them without removing HPA.  Anyone use 10ers?

I have used the HPA in 3 games now and man it hits like a truck! Be wary that the randomness of his movement makes him a bit unreliable but still love it. Last game was against a Kharadron Overlords army which almost used all his firepower on it and still diden't manage to bring it down (survived with one wound) but healed up the turn after up to 8 wound because of its ability and twist in the game. 

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So, I had a doubles game (1k each) against Sylvaneth and Tzeentch today. Lore-wise, we just assumed they did some pretty heinous stuff considering the fact that Skaven and Seraphon would never find a reason to ally. 

Batleplan  was Starstrike

Lists (unsure what spells\traits\artifacts other players had):

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide
Grey Seer (120)
- General
- Trait: Verminous Valour 
- Artefact: Suspicious Stone 
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Warlock Bombardier (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: Warp Lightning Shield
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Gutter Runners (200)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Total: 1000 / 1000
----------------------------------------------------------

Allegiance: Seraphon
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Trait: Great Rememberer 
Skink Starpriest (80)
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters & Moonstone Clubs
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters & Moonstone Clubs
6 x Ripperdactyl Riders (280)
Shadowstrike Starhost (180)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)

Total: 1000 / 1000
----------------------------------------------------------
Allegiance: Tzeentch
Herald of Tzeentch on Disc (140)
- Staff of Change
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
- General
Magister (140)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 980 / 1000
----------------------------------------------------------

Allegiance: Sylvaneth

Leaders
Drycha Hamadreth (280)
- General

Battleline
20 x Dryads (200)
10 x Dryads (100)

Units
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Greatbows
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Greatswords

Total: 980 / 1000


T1
Tzeentch\Sylvaneth get priority; fate points are generated while the trees shimmy into their.. well, trees. The Bownoths manage to take the Grey Seer down to 3 remaining which was worrying until the WLC overcharged with a 1 and did 12 MW's right back and was still left with 1 wound remaining after exploding. Gutter Runners showed up and got the Herald down to 2 remaining while Ripperdactyls came down and killed the Gaunt Summoner. I'll say it's much nicer to see them when they aren't being used against me.
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T2
We get the double turn which was pretty crucial as the objective landed on our right side directly in front of 40 Clanrats who secured it since the tree's were still hanging out elsewhere. The Gutter Runners manage to finish off the herald with more plink shooting (since I forgot to charge them in last turn) and the WLC rolls another 1 for 6 MW's against the Pinks. Combat phase largely revolved around the Gutter Runners finishing off the remaining Bownoth while the Rippers finished off the Magister and went into the pinks\dryads to little effect.

Their turn saw a last show of power from Tzeentch with 7 MW's out of a Tzeentchs Inferno into the Rippers. Drycha charged the right side Clanrats and killed 14 but they managed to hold just fine thanks to IP. We end the round ahead 2-0.
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T3
Last 2 objectives drop and ours is dead center right on top of the 10 Skinks and theirs drops on our right within range of the Gutter Runners... really unfortunate for them. The win priority and the Drycha manages to finish off the WLC but combat largely devolves into nothing except more rat-killing, however I still had control of the 1st objective with 17 bodies to 9.

At this point, it's pretty obvious they don't really have the means to push into taking our objectives now that Tzeentchs heroes have all been killed so we decide to call it there making the final tally 11-0 and major victory to the unlikely alliance between Seraphon and Skaven.
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Overall Thoughts
 First off, it's a real shame that they despise each other lore-wise but hey, what can you do. In terms of gameplay I really like Seraphon + Skaven as there is a lot to contend with and our combined objective game is very strong. 

That said, I think this game could've swung the other direction had we not managed to get the double turn and their objective landed elsewhere. The Tzeentch player made a huge misplay by not screening 2\3 of his heroes from the 3.1" deepstriking Rippers which I think is what really cost them the game along with the fact that the Sylvaneth player really did not play as aggressively as he could have. I really didn't have much firepower outside of the WLC and the Gutter Runners were... average? If I had the points to spare I would've taken a HPA or 40 Plague Monks.. maybe drop 20 Clanrats to do so? Oh, and I really wanted to take the WLV but I didn't really want to that again to the Tzeentch player so soon after the last time I did it. Next time may be a different story.

Anyway, thanks for reading. I have the HPA coming in soon so I will be curious to see how it performs.

Attach35874_20190316_192538.jpg

Edited by Gwendar
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Wow, so those Ripperdactyls can deepstrike 3" away?!  I've heard they're pretty nasty but I didn't know they could do that.  Gonna have to research what other armies can do before Adepticon.  I'm unfamiliar with many of the tools and units in the competitive scene.  I know the Seraphon have shooty dinos like that gem topped ankylosaurus and they can teleport 1 thing a turn.  And Skinks ignore rend -1, and something called an Engine of the Gods can generate Skinks.  

But as for the Skaven, do they have any good way to buff a charge roll besides the CP reroll of a charge roll?  The Deceiver can get up to 6" away with his Dreaded Skitterleap, or he can give that to any other Skaven hero but Thanquol.   They kinda nerfed the Gautfyre Skorch didn't they?  Used to be the 3" deepstrike?  Hmmm, Gutter Runners are pretty darn stabby.  I'd like to make some outflanking charges with them after shooting.

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1 hour ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Wow, so those Ripperdactyls can deepstrike 3" away?!  I've heard they're pretty nasty but I didn't know they could do that.  Gonna have to research what other armies can do before Adepticon.  I'm unfamiliar with many of the tools and units in the competitive scene.  I know the Seraphon have shooty dinos like that gem topped ankylosaurus and they can teleport 1 thing a turn.  And Skinks ignore rend -1, and something called an Engine of the Gods can generate Skinks. 

The deepstrike comes from  Shadowstrike Starhost. The Battalion gives the 3" deepstrike, 2D6" movement for all Battalion members in their first movement phase, and a reusable ability that allows for re-rolling of HITS and WOUNDS of 1.  What really makes the deepstrike powerful are the unit's abilities:

  1. Swooping Dive = re-roll ALL failed hit and wound rolls for ALL attacks made in that combat phase
  2. Voracious Appetite = Vicious Beak successful hits are D3 hits, instead of 1.
  3. Toad Rage = the Blot Toad, a buff unit that is not targetable, and give a Ripper unit that attacks an enemy within 2" of it, 3 Vicious Beak attacks, instead of 1.

You can see how that can quickly compound. The standard unit is 6 models, which gets 7x 2" spear attacks, 18 Slashing Claw attacks, and 18 Vicious Beak attacks, all of which re-roll failed hits and wounds. It's a one shot, hoard wiping or surgical strike attack. Each time I've played it against @Gwendar he's murdered the unit after they've slaughtered their target. This was the first game they managed to survive and do additional work.

Edited by Wilhelm Stürmer
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2 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

But as for the Skaven, do they have any good way to buff a charge roll besides the CP reroll of a charge roll?  The Deceiver can get up to 6" away with his Dreaded Skitterleap, or he can give that to any other Skaven hero but Thanquol.   They kinda nerfed the Gautfyre Skorch didn't they?  Used to be the 3" deepstrike?  Hmmm, Gutter Runners are pretty darn stabby.  I'd like to make some outflanking charges with them after shooting.

Not particularly, but with a Warpseer General (and I mean, why not?) you're getting an extra CP on a 3+ or d3 on a 6+ and any masterclan heroes will get that CP back after using it on a command ability on a 5+... so you should have plenty to spare for whatever you need. Gautfyre (and all Skryre battalions, to be honest) is not worth using at all so I would steer clear of it. If you wanted to go pure Skryre, focusing on shooting and buffing those units to do so is great. If you really want those Stormfiends\Acolytes\Cannons\etc to hit something in the back, just use a Gnawhole.

Gutter Runners are average in that department. They will definitely do wonders against squishy heroes, war-machines and things like that but tend to melt when touched just like Clanrats. The deepstrike is great, but it's unfortunate that they must come out T1 movement phase. Still, the plink shooting followed by a charge does well but I think it only does well in units of 20. If you don't intend to run that many I would just stick with 5-10 as skirmishing units to harass others.

Edited by Gwendar
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11 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Gutter Runners are average in that department. They will definitely do wonders against squishy heroes, war-machines and things like that but tend to melt when touched just like Clanrats. The deepstrike is great, but it's unfortunate that they must come out T1 movement phase. Still, the plink shooting followed by a charge does well but I think it only does well in units of 20. If you don't intend to run that many I would just stick with 5-10 as skirmishing units to harass others.

Gutter runners are not a killy unit, and should never be treated as such unless buffed by a Deceiver. They're an extraordinarily cheap 5-rat sabotage unit that can't be ignored because they can threaten poorly guarded backfield objectives. 

Their job is to sneak into tiny holes in the opponent's deepstriking blockade and pull enemy units or shooting away from your frontline, or simply steal objectives if ignored. 

Never take more than 5, unless you take 20, and even then.  2x5 will outperform 1x10 every day of the week. For strategic purposes, pretend they do -no damage-

Those 60 points alone  will win you games 

Edited by Mayple
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4 minutes ago, Mayple said:

Gutter runners are not a killy unit, and should never be treated as such unless buffed by a Deceiver. They're an extraordinarily cheap 5-rat sabotage unit that can't be ignored because they can threaten poorly guarded backfield objectives. 

Their job is to sneak into tiny holes in the opponent's deepstriking blockade and pull enemy units or shooting away from your frontline, or simply steal objectives if ignored. 

Never take more than 5, unless you take 20, and even then.  2x5 will outperform 1x10 every day of the week. For strategic purposes, pretend they do -no damage-

Those 60 points alone  will win you games 

This makes me miss the days of double shot slinger gutter runners with poison attacks. I'm surprised at the lack of poisons eshin units have. Like I dunno "Eshin Poisons: Units with this ability may reroll unmodified To Wound rolls of 1".

Also kind of funny in the book, they talk about how Eshin skaven are adept at all sorts of weapons including firearms. Where's my "Vindicare" skaven assassin!

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13 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

This makes me miss the days of double shot slinger gutter runners with poison attacks. I'm surprised at the lack of poisons eshin units have. Like I dunno "Eshin Poisons: Units with this ability may reroll unmodified To Wound rolls of 1".

Also kind of funny in the book, they talk about how Eshin skaven are adept at all sorts of weapons including firearms. Where's my "Vindicare" skaven assassin!

Theres a lot hinting at eshin being more than they appear (lorewise) in the book . I have a feeling we will see a full eshin release as its own faction that can ally with skaventide down the line.

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Eshin is a hard one to really give their own expansion to when you compare a movey/stealthy army that is mostly combat..

compared to guns/explosions/crazy inventions or plagues/prayers/fanatics from skryre and pestilens.. there seems to be a bit more meat to build on there that would make an exciting focus. 

Also both are acknowledged in the new Skaven book as the 2 big players in Skavendom and who have had the most influence historically and continue to do so..

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42 minutes ago, Nikobot said:

Eshin is a hard one to really give their own expansion to when you compare a movey/stealthy army that is mostly combat..

compared to guns/explosions/crazy inventions or plagues/prayers/fanatics from skryre and pestilens.. there seems to be a bit more meat to build on there that would make an exciting focus. 

Also both are acknowledged in the new Skaven book as the 2 big players in Skavendom and who have had the most influence historically and continue to do so..

Skyre makes somewhat more sense.

as for pestilence I cannot say, the first book was more of a failure, and a second one giving no new minis just seems odd and stupid.

Truly said I can see that either skyre or Eshin might get their own battletome, while also having a possibility of gaining some potential plastic miniatures next to having 90%of their range of weird looking monkeyrats or are made of failcast/metal.

also I’m seeing much bigger potential in new Eshin or skyre models than anything new for the pestilence range.

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30 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

also I’m seeing much bigger potential in new Eshin or skyre models than anything new for the pestilence range

Id rate skryre and moulder as most potential.. crazy inventions and crazy mutants, and they do collaborate from time to time!!

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1 hour ago, Nikobot said:

Eshin is a hard one to really give their own expansion to when you compare a movey/stealthy army that is mostly combat..

compared to guns/explosions/crazy inventions or plagues/prayers/fanatics from skryre and pestilens.. there seems to be a bit more meat to build on there that would make an exciting focus. 

Also both are acknowledged in the new Skaven book as the 2 big players in Skavendom and who have had the most influence historically and continue to do so..

Well, that can easily change. You’re examples are existing units. The advantage with Eshin is that everything is still open. From shroud makers that function as those spore fanatics giving minuses to shooting. Tin can opener assassins that focus on high rend attacks with an metal eating acid on their blades. Airborn cavalry assassins that trained the shadow bats of the shadow realm.  Illusionairy units in the Same manner of the silver tower assassins. Etc etc. 

All made up by me of course but by still shrouding Eshin in shadows everything is possible. On the other hand to shake things up for the more established clans they will need a bigger ‘trigger’ to change things up. Which granted could be as small as some rat invented a new way to use realm stone And now you have all kinds of new machinery explained. 

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As for wishlisting, I am more hoping that Verminus might get some new units.

Stormvermins riding ratogres, bringing back the clawlord on bonebracker ratogre and maybe bringing some kind of more elite Stormvermins (deathvermins)

would be cool.

But anything new (modelwise for the skaven would make me happy)

although my hapiness for the skaven is already on a high decree.

 

Edited by Skreech Verminking
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@Kramer some nice ideas

After seeing what the current skaven book yielded, i actually felt that the best thing might be the same again, but when they can commit resources to a model refresh and expansion. 

It would be huge, but they could effectively fully update a real great and exciting part of AOS lore in skaven  and expand even further

- old model refresh

- battletome refresh

- expanded allegiance abilities and options for sub-clan creation that melds clans like DoK temples etc, moulder/skryre, eshin/verminus, pestilens/moulder etc

- expand each clan by a few heroes and units with the main focus being the cross-clan collaboration e.g. eshin/verminus elite killers, skryre/moulder exploding rats and mechanized upgrades for mutant, plagued rats and rat ogres etc

Sounds too huge to happen maybe :)

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5 hours ago, Verminlord said:

 I have a feeling we will see a full eshin release as its own faction that can ally with skaventide down the line.

While that does sound cool, I think giving Eshin 2-3 more units (what happened to the deathrunners, granted methinks they would have gotten rid of the weird "2 places at once" rule) and updated night runners/gutter runners is a more realistic option.

 

Plus they really need to start updating all the old metal sculpts from the whole skaven line! What is this, Chaos Space Marines? 😛

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Nikobot said:

Eshin is a hard one to really give their own expansion to when you compare a movey/stealthy army that is mostly combat..

compared to guns/explosions/crazy inventions or plagues/prayers/fanatics from skryre and pestilens.. there seems to be a bit more meat to build on there that would make an exciting focus. 

Also both are acknowledged in the new Skaven book as the 2 big players in Skavendom and who have had the most influence historically and continue to do so..

Genestealer  cult does exist in 40k.

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