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3 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

Well I mean they aren’t really one faction are they? They are as together and helpful to each other as the 4 chaos gods are... pestilens started like two civil wars? Clans constantly fighting each other? Seems like nurgle vs khorne vs slaanesh vs tzeentch to me honestly. Although I think the problem people are having could easily be fixed by making battleline “if general is blank” instead of needing all of them to be one clan. Unlike LoN where every “army” is just different types of undead which can all be controlled by one death wizard (other then ghouls or ghosts I think? ANd both of them have separate srmy books as well sooo...) the clans are vastly different forces with unique feel and look to them. If it’s “just a fluff thing the rules shouldn’t reflect it” then I think you could argue that dwarves, elves and humans should all be in one battletome designed like the skaven one... since honestly they work together just as often while also not liking each other. In the end people are jus to trying to keep the battline they want and take the models they want without a clan rat tax...

 

someone petition to make battline options based on general! This is the actual issue in my mind

But now you are mixing lore and game rules as an argument. 

The lore argument, You can do so, a Skaventide Pestilens army vs Skaventide Moulder army.  And if you feel that's to restricting to represent the narrative of your game. Just discuss with your opponent, my group does that all the time. 

The rules argument, with just General means Battleline if. You don't suddenly play a Skryre army. You still play a Skaventide army. So it's very different then the situation with Nighthaunt that has a book. If Pestilence gets a seperate book, i'm sure they can ally in Skaventide units. Which is of course a guess on my end. 
In the current situation, I think GW just realised they couldn't oversee all the potential builds if it was just Battleline if general is. I'd wager money that the moment they changed that Moulder/Eshin Generals would be a big thing because that would mean the cheapest battleline tax. Probably not what GW envisioned with the Skaventide army.
Again this is just a guess on my part, but I think that's why GW chose this very exclusive system of Battleline if whole army has keyword x.

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We are looking forward to a 1000 point game Skaven vs Seraphon. I have to face obviesly a Slann with summoning, maybe a Engine of the Gods with summoning and  of course Skinks.

Do you have any experience with playing vs Seraphon?

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5 minutes ago, Vexcor said:

We are looking forward to a 1000 point game Skaven vs Seraphon. I have to face obviesly a Slann with summoning, maybe a Engine of the Gods with summoning and  of course Skinks.

Do you have any experience with playing vs Seraphon?

Yes.

use flamers as many as possible.

youll need them!

believe me grilled Crocodile tastes fantastic, you really don’t wanna miss it

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4 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Yes.

use flamers as many as possible.

youll need them!

believe me grilled Crocodile tastes fantastic, you really don’t wanna miss it

Sounds nice !

i am a little bit worried about stuff like razordons. just 3 or 4 of them can slaughter nearly everything in 1000 point games.

and on top of that, to face a turn 2 troglodon from summoning is really a badass.

maybe he deploy more saurus warriors then skinks, who knows.

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1 hour ago, Vexcor said:

Sounds nice !

i am a little bit worried about stuff like razordons. just 3 or 4 of them can slaughter nearly everything in 1000 point games.

and on top of that, to face a turn 2 troglodon from summoning is really a badass.

maybe he deploy more saurus warriors then skinks, who knows.

Well I’ve played 1500p against them.

I would just protect your flamers by clanrats and hope he won’t be shooting at them.

in other words take some with you like a hell pit abomination or a Verminlord, who’ll take the enemy’s attention and get shot rather then your flamers.

 

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So following on from my heat 1 summary report, I have begun thinking about what I would do and change about my army.

One of the things I felt I really lack was stuff to do at range turn 1/2, with most of our spells limited to only 13" and the ralting guns also only 12" range. When my opponents made me go first (I had 12 drops, I never get to choose 😛 ) I found that I often did not have much to do other than position myself round the board. This was an issue I didn't have before our battle tome as I had PWM instead of the ratling guns who could provide me with long range damage effective against most unit, also don't need line of sight (handy vs trees and hiding support heroes). 

Obviously with the loss of the mortar from the rules I cant put them back in, however the Plague claw catapult is a more buffed up, albeit more expensive, version of the mortar now.  So will be giving them a go in the list, almost had them in my GT list in the first place but decided to try the ralting guns instead.

On the subject of ratling guns, they were very effective in many of my game. I did find though getting them in position and range to shoot was harder than I would of liked. Main issue being the would shoot and wipe out a target. then have to spend a whole turn getting in range of another target to be effective. Also often 3 was actually overkill but does give you back up for when 1 blows up. 

The plague monks and the clanrats performed the roles as you may expect. Have 4 40 man block made trying up and slowing down units very easy. The 20 man units was nice to have around and hold objectives with/teleport through the gnawhole. Not sure if I need it though.

The Grey seer was great at stopping the guys running away with robes, but magic wise was often to short range to do anything effective (didn't cast plague once). I would probably swap plague out for skitterleap and was a major mistake not having it in my list imo. 

The Bell did better than I thought it would, the battle shock combined with the seer meant that my army pretty much never took a battle shock test in the whole weekend. the effect of the bell itself were variable. -1 to hit being the most useful and +1 cast/unbind. Most of the other results were a bit meaningless in the end though. 

Gutter runners were either pointless or incredibly useful. The ability to clear gnaw holes of chaff unit proved to be their most useful role and just to put pressure on opponents objective was useful. But then some games they didn't have much to do and just die and run too easy.

Lastly the vermin lord warbringer, was somewhat underwhelming, his combat prowess isn't what it used to be which is a bummer. the command trait is still handy but requires him to be well positioned and getting it on multiple units can be difficult unless he is functioning as a solely support character in your line. Death frenzy is good but difficult to cast without buffs. I would probably prefer the Deciever for a combat role in the future and skitterleap. Although warpseer would be good as it is more survivable if not it loses a bit of combat punch but not much.

will post a revised list up later

Edited by AliKing
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Just to be sure I played correct:

1)

Can a unit of 40 Plaque Monks be equipped with Contagion Banner and Icon of Pestilence as well as a Doom Gong and Bale-chime?

 2)

For a unit of 40 Clanrats will 2 Bell-Ringer add 4 (instead 2) to run rolls?

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4 minutes ago, Ashes said:

Just to be sure I played correct:

1)

Can a unit of 40 Plaque Monks be equipped with Contagion Banner and Icon of Pestilence as well as a Doom Gong and Bale-chime?

 2)

For a unit of 40 Clanrats will 2 Bell-Ringer add 4 (instead 2) to run rolls?

1) yes

2)no, if i'm not wrong it says "for any bell-ringer", so it does not stuck

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22 minutes ago, AliKing said:


One of the things I felt I really lack was stuff to do at range turn 1/2, with most of our spells limited to only 13" and the ralting guns also only 12" range. When my opponents made me go first (I had 12 drops, I never get to choose 😛 ) I found that I often did not have much to do other than position myself round the board. This was an issue I didn't have before our battle tome as I had PWM instead of the ratling guns who could provide me with long range damage effective against most unit, also don't need line of sight (handy vs trees and hiding support heroes).

I agree the plagueclaws are worth testing... 3 plagueclaw, 1 plague priest and the foulrain congregation is 670 points. For this we get 3 attacks 2+/2+/-2/2d6 (against 10+ models) no line of sight 31", one extra artifacts and one extra CP.

For 640 pts we can alternatively get 3 WLC and one warlock bombardier. 24" attacks and a boost to one wlc per turn with risks of self destruction.

 

I don't know...

In all cases, building WLC to be dual use with plagueclaws requires minor conversion at assembly and is definitely worth the effort :D

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2 hours ago, Kramer said:

But now you are mixing lore and game rules as an argument. 

The lore argument, You can do so, a Skaventide Pestilens army vs Skaventide Moulder army.  And if you feel that's to restricting to represent the narrative of your game. Just discuss with your opponent, my group does that all the time. 

The rules argument, with just General means Battleline if. You don't suddenly play a Skryre army. You still play a Skaventide army. So it's very different then the situation with Nighthaunt that has a book. If Pestilence gets a seperate book, i'm sure they can ally in Skaventide units. Which is of course a guess on my end. 
In the current situation, I think GW just realised they couldn't oversee all the potential builds if it was just Battleline if general is. I'd wager money that the moment they changed that Moulder/Eshin Generals would be a big thing because that would mean the cheapest battleline tax. Probably not what GW envisioned with the Skaventide army.
Again this is just a guess on my part, but I think that's why GW chose this very exclusive system of Battleline if whole army has keyword x.

I want everyone to ponder why individual armies get books and why GW doesn’t just put all of order In one book and do something similar to skaventide but for order, destruction, death, and chaos. Or how about why a verminlord gets the monster keyword but a sequitor does not. Or why Sylvaneth can pop up woods everywhere. Or why sigmars chosen have 4 up saves. Rules ARE a reflection of the fluff, without Lore you don’t have any justification for any of the units or armies. Armies have army books to give them the feel they have. They change how a group of models play to match the fluff. For instance a mangler squig gets a unique damage table, tell me why that is? Fluff and rules have always been loosely linked, and skaven lists have ALWAYS reflected what I proposed before AOS. I’m guessing in 8th edition the different battleline were called core right? Now maybe I’m wrong as I’ve never seen the inside of a fantasy skaven codex (I played vampire counts and orks) so someone please confirm that in 8th that they had core for every clan.

with my above statement you can see why I “mixed” my arguments. I stated the fluff and gave a rule to match it. Now I understand that not every rule matches fluff 100 percent(this is normally due to the fluff happening would be op as heck) but you can definitely tell that 90 percent of the time the fluff is what decides the rules. Name one unit that completely defies its fluff. In my mind fluff arguments are rule arguments, and I get that you can change when with friends but clearly there is a limit to that is completely determined by the subjective views of other human beings. In my mind if they really want people not using generals that unlock cheap battline in tournaments then they should just improve the grey seers abilities until he becomes the best option for general (thus keeping the battline in competitive lists the same with clan rat and storm vermin battleline and also making people take a model they prolly already would have as casters are pretty much required in serious lists unless you are a special faction like pestilens) maybe upping the cp gain to 4 up. Also even if they did do that clan rats are still the best chaff in the tome so I think we would still see them.  And even with grabbing eshin or Moulder battleline the only difference in the list is that they have more room for toys and can actually choose freely? Also the battline rats look different... I mean making people pay a larger tax just for models they might not even like is weird to me, armies should have varied choices for battline to make up the many archetypes their army can have.

my views stem from the belief that if an army doesn’t represent the fluff well from a narrative stand point then it’s failed as an army. And unless the tourney lists are all one unit or something extreme like that then it’s not really a failure. Lol I don’t even play narrative games 😂 anyways basically once we start to separate rules from fluff things stop making sense is my point 

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17 minutes ago, Num said:

I agree the plagueclaws are worth testing... 3 plagueclaw, 1 plague priest and the foulrain congregation is 670 points. For this we get 3 attacks 2+/2+/-2/2d6 (against 10+ models) no line of sight 31", one extra artifacts and one extra CP.

For 640 pts we can alternatively get 3 WLC and one warlock bombardier. 24" attacks and a boost to one wlc per turn with risks of self destruction.

Don't forget you can get the trait  to re-roll wounds for pestilence shooting as well

Edited by AliKing
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2 hours ago, Vexcor said:

Sounds nice !

i am a little bit worried about stuff like razordons. just 3 or 4 of them can slaughter nearly everything in 1000 point games.

and on top of that, to face a turn 2 troglodon from summoning is really a badass.

maybe he deploy more saurus warriors then skinks, who knows.

I've found them difficult to deal with in anything under 2k. Warpfire throwers are not the answer in my opinion as they will be shot to pieces before you can get it in range of a unit of 20-40 Skinks.. and even then my local Seraphon player spreads them in long ranks as he never charges them, just shoots.

Any smart Seraphon player is simply going to hide behind terrain out of LoS and generate summoning points the entire game all while making sure to screen any deepstrikes (like Gnawholes) with strung out skink units. If you kill the Slann, you'll probably have an easy time playing cleanup. You can play the objective game by bringing big Clanrat units, but you will eventually lose to that if you sit there and let them shoot at you; they can always summon in more skinks and teleport them onto an objective, you cant. A WLC or Jezzails would be a nice investment, but you'll be banking on getting a good angle on his most-likely-hidden-Slann to be able to shoot it.

Next time, I will be trying out a Deceiver, 10 Gutter Runners (or 20 if you drop some Clanrats but this spot can be filled with other things), 60\80 Clanrats and I may even bring along a proxy catapult just to test it out. It would work great against the large Skink units and it could potentially snipe out the Slann since it doesn't require LoS. If that doesn't work, you get the Deceiver to Skitterleap in, make a 6" charge and kill it. Worse case scenario is the Slann lives and they teleport them away, but hey, you can follow along with your own teleport.

Edited by Gwendar
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3 hours ago, Vexcor said:

We are looking forward to a 1000 point game Skaven vs Seraphon. I have to face obviesly a Slann with summoning, maybe a Engine of the Gods with summoning and  of course Skinks.

Do you have any experience with playing vs Seraphon?

They can be tricky. You either have to shoot the heroes and engine down asap, or bring enough power to destroy skink hordes and the summoned units quickly so you can take over objectives. Last time I played against lizards they ironically ended up tying up my clanrats and constantly summoned in more skinks and warriors to block them from reaching objectives. I wasn't able to kill either their heroes or the summons fast enough, although this was before the tome and changes.

Stormfiends might actually be a good choice here if you're worried about warpfire thrower teams getting shot down, plus they'll provide some good shooting to target heroes with. I think rat ogres will be very good too if you can get them in range, every successful attack kills 2 skinks/warriors and if you can manage a charge on a hero, they'll very likely kill or severely wound it. Gnawholes/skitterleap could be very good if your opponent doesn't know how to play around them or is in a bad position

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30 minutes ago, Lobeau said:

Out of curiosity, do y'all recommend priming stormvermin on the spruce, or are they decent to assemble, prime and then paint?

I never prime anything on-sprue. The main reason is because if its on the sprue then you're going to miss mould lines and the connection points to the sprue, that means once you've clipped it out you've got a lot of model plastic cleaning to do which will scrape off and leave gaps in the spray. 

My method is always to unclip the model, clean up the connection points and the mould lines and then either part or fully assemble the model then spray. Spraying should only happen once you're sure there's nothing to touch up. Even then I'd give the model one quick spray that won't cover it totally - let that dry and double check for any more faults on the model before a final second coat of spray to fully undercoat. 

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16 minutes ago, Lobeau said:

Out of curiosity, do y'all recommend priming stormvermin on the spruce, or are they decent to assemble, prime and then paint?

I personally prime and paint all my models assembled or mostly assembled, no issues with stormvermin. I find painting stormvermin to be pretty similar to painting clanrats, they're just not as quick to batch paint and assemble. So long as you don't assemble the halberd shafts to be clutched closely to the stormvermin's body or something like that, you shouldn't have any problems painting and priming.

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14 minutes ago, Luca said:

About stormvermin, i can build all with shield and halberd whit their kit? And also is a problem i i build the leader whit  a different weapon?

No it isn’t a problem if you give the leader a warpickaxe.

it’ll still count as a halberd.

as for shields, you should be able to equip all of them with one, although I would just put some on the back if there isn’t   any free place on their arm.

 

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Hey rat-things, I ruminated on the feedback I received before on my Skaventide list as I began the construction of my warp lightning cannons.  I thought maybe relying too much on the Warfire Throwers could put me into deep water if my opponents had any shooting at all.  As my DoK opponent is currently painting some harpies who can deep-strike and throw javalins, there is the possibility of the warpfire throwers being sniped out of my clanrats at just the right time to protect the following witches from our glorious cleansing flames.  So I dropped Thanqoul (for now) and expanded my 60 Clanrats to 100, and shuffled points into a Doomwheel as well.  I figure a Doomwheel can be a distraction carnifex or even tie up a flank for very low points cost.  If the Doomwheel gets charged by 30 Witches... then the witches 'waste' a lot of damage on overkilling the doomwheel.  If other smaller units like 10 Sisters of Slaughter charge it, then it is likely to survive and overload it's warp lightning and retaliate before burning out in a blaze of glory.  What do you guys think?  Is lacking a Master Clan caster too much of an issue?  Having x4 warlocks means I can overcharge all four cannons now also.  Taking only x2 Bombardier means I can still get both of them rerolling their shots to protect them from exploding and make them more likely to hit.  Likewise, once the battle closes, I am regularly dealing 4x3 Mortal Wounds a hero phase from Warp Lightning spells (assuming successful castings), plus the MWs output from the Lightning Cannons.  It seems like all I need to do is buy time with furry clanrat bodies and suicidal doomwheels.

While I also understand this is an objectives game, I assume a unit jumping through a gnawhole can allow me to grab at backfield objectives or at least threaten such moves to help control the battlefield other than just making a castle of warp lightning madness.

SKAVENTIDE

Arch-Warlock

Warlock Engineer: Warp Resonator

Warlock Bombardier

Warlock Bombardier

x40 Clanrats

x40 Clanrats

x20 Clanrats

x4 Warp Lightning Cannons

x1 Doomwheel

x2 Warpfire Throwers

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Hey guys, i started converting some jezzails from clan rats and kroot sniper, what do you think?

Shield are made in cork (later i will add some details to them with green stuff), still looking for a better option tho.P_20190306_234958_vHDR_On.jpg.9a058122a702a69f94b1260244d4ea7b.jpg

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8 hours ago, Nevar said:

Hey rat-things, I ruminated on the feedback I received before on my Skaventide list as I began the construction of my warp lightning cannons.  I thought maybe relying too much on the Warfire Throwers could put me into deep water if my opponents had any shooting at all.  As my DoK opponent is currently painting some harpies who can deep-strike and throw javalins, there is the possibility of the warpfire throwers being sniped out of my clanrats at just the right time to protect the following witches from our glorious cleansing flames.  So I dropped Thanqoul (for now) and expanded my 60 Clanrats to 100, and shuffled points into a Doomwheel as well.  I figure a Doomwheel can be a distraction carnifex or even tie up a flank for very low points cost.  If the Doomwheel gets charged by 30 Witches... then the witches 'waste' a lot of damage on overkilling the doomwheel.  If other smaller units like 10 Sisters of Slaughter charge it, then it is likely to survive and overload it's warp lightning and retaliate before burning out in a blaze of glory.  What do you guys think?  Is lacking a Master Clan caster too much of an issue?  Having x4 warlocks means I can overcharge all four cannons now also.  Taking only x2 Bombardier means I can still get both of them rerolling their shots to protect them from exploding and make them more likely to hit.  Likewise, once the battle closes, I am regularly dealing 4x3 Mortal Wounds a hero phase from Warp Lightning spells (assuming successful castings), plus the MWs output from the Lightning Cannons.  It seems like all I need to do is buy time with furry clanrat bodies and suicidal doomwheels.

While I also understand this is an objectives game, I assume a unit jumping through a gnawhole can allow me to grab at backfield objectives or at least threaten such moves to help control the battlefield other than just making a castle of warp lightning madness.

SKAVENTIDE

Arch-Warlock

Warlock Engineer: Warp Resonator

Warlock Bombardier

Warlock Bombardier

x40 Clanrats

x40 Clanrats

x20 Clanrats

x4 Warp Lightning Cannons

x1 Doomwheel

x2 Warpfire Throwers

Your lists looks good.

The only thing I’m missing is somekind of a melee damage dealer, butsince your going out on soo much heavy shooting I don’t really think you’ll need it.

Still battleshock will be a problem for you.

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1 minute ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Your lists looks good.

The only thing I’m missing is somekind of a melee damage dealer, butsince your going out on soo much heavy shooting I don’t really think you’ll need it.

Still battleshock will be a problem for you.

I can't think of anything else to spend my Command Points on.  :D

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I'm going to my first Tournament in AoS on the 30th of March.

It will be a 1000 Points per Player Double Team Tournament.

 

My friend will be playing the Gloomspite Gitz and I will go with my Skaven.

 

We have never played a Teamtournament or AoS Tournament but we will try it :)

 

The missions will be:

Scorched Earth

Night March

Focal Points

 

I have to Lists in mind (we havent talked about strategy or anything yet)

First One:

Grey Seer on Screaming Bell

Artefact: Gryph-feather charm

Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy

 

Clawlord

Mighty Warlord Trait: Verminous Valour

 

Warlock Bombardier

General

Command Trait: Overseer of Destruction

Lore of Warpvolt: Chain Warp Lightning

 

40xClanrats

Rusty Blades

20xClanrats

Rusty Blades

1x Ratling Gun

1x Ratling Gun

1x Warpfire Thrower

Vermintide

 

Second One:

Grey Seer

Artefact: Snoutgrovel Robes

Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy

 

Clawlord

Mighty Warlord Trait: Verminous Valour

 

Warlock Bombardier

General

Command Trait: Overseer of Destruction

Lore of Warpvolt: Chain Warp Lightning

40xClanrats

Rusty Blades

20xClanrats

Rusty Blades

1x Ratling Gun

1x Ratling Gun

1x Doomwheel

Vermintide

 

What do you think?

 

 

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Hi @Maier666,

where are your 160clanrats at?

they seem to have gone missing.

jokes aside, I for one really like your second list, since it gives you some great missile support (and a bit of rolling doom surprise for your enemy).

your staying power is a bit lacking but I’m guessing your green-thing playing partner has your back at this (although remember to clutch a shield on your back just in case. The skaven race isn’t the only factions that likes to get a bit stabby).

Anyways Good luck and happy wargaming.

Edited by Skreech Verminking
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