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12 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

Yeah, me too in truth. It's just an irritation, but I would rather have the book than not.

Sky Skaven Spotted! Clan Skryre has definitely got flying machines of their own. Arch-Warlock Steelklaw has his own skyfleet: "Built around cannibalised Kharadron craft and the fevered designs that have poured from Steelklaw's mind, dozens of armoured dirigibles, lightning-ships, warpfire barges and klawbombers take to the sky." The best bit? It's called "The Much-Great Sky-Kill Air Armada" 😂

Ah reminds me of that Skaven army that was showcased in  Warhammer Community

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Thanquol is the rat who saved Blight City from the hordes of zombies which flooded in after the Gnawhole opened by Snitterskritch during Malign Portents turned out to go into an ocean. Hilariously, whilst he is the only one capable enough of organising the defence of the Masterburrow, he has to get the hell out of Dodge immediately after because everyone is going to try to murder him, the Council because he's just too good, and a load of Clawlords because he maaaaaay possibly have used a metric tonne of their Clanrats as fodder.

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I'm not happy because I either have to take zero Clanrats or 60, ensuring I have to buy more than the 40 I was quite content with before in my Skryre army. I don't like it when options get taken away from me, which is what this battletome has done wrt Stormfiends, the poison wind mortar and Clanrats.

Anyway, I will say no more negative stuff for today. The book is lovely and the background is great.

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7 hours ago, Num said:

What do you think of using as "the hammer" now?

Perhaps running stormfiends in 6 in order to get more out of a single warpgrinder weapon?
520 points for 39 wounds, 24 melee attacks DMG 2 (16 of thrm with rend due to shock/grinder), 3d6+6 ranged attacks (wind launchers + rattling), ability to pop anywhere. Can be buffed to reroll hits and increase the damage of the ranged attacks.

In comparison, 40 stormvermins is 40 wounds and 80 attacks DMG 1 for 50 points. Can be buffed to increase the attacks, reroll hits (I think). And more?

For the same price, we can also get 10 rat ogors. This is 40 wounds, 40 melee attacks at DMG 2, 10 ranged attacks. Can be buffed with reroll hit wound, reanimate once when, and increase wound.

Have I missed any buff?

Is there any option at our disposal for "the hammer"?

Cheers

Going back to this, I'm curious to see what 20 Gutter Runners can do. Unbuffed I think they may be underwhelming, but it may be worth looking into when you combine it with their 40 exploding missile attacks. Throwing in a Deceiver for the buffs could be good, but then you start getting to Stormvermin levels of points cost which I think may defeat the purpose, IE; Just take 40 Stormvermin instead. Thoughts? Maths?

 

20 minutes ago, Ratcliff said:

 

Well why not? Pay a tax of 360 points on 3 units of clanrats and you can take whatever the hell you want. That's better than Skaven have ever had it

I think what we're upset about is that it shouldn't have been a tax. Clanrats should have been generic battleline for all Clans so you could at least only take 40 of them for a decent screen\objective holders\etc while still bringing the identity of a Pure Clan.

For screening\objective holder purposes, Moulder can easily go with Giant Rat and do well, Eshin can go with Night Runners and do well, Pestilens can go with Monks and do well, Verminous has Clanrats and Stormvermin. However, Skryre is forced to take a tax of Clanrats to achieve this when many of us only want to bring 20-40 of them, not 60-80 for more points. 

Either that or, you know, make acolytes in plastic at 10 per box.

Edited by Gwendar
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15 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

I live in hope-optimism.

Better than some. They're easy to convert but...it's just not the same. That said, I saw a nice facebook post of someone taking Drakefire Guns + Stormvermin and making "Acolytes" out of them holding "Gas-globe Launchers" and it apparently took no fiddling or green-stuff usage.

So yeah, needless to say I have some Drakefire bits coming in the next few days to give this a try. Now I just need to find a use for Acolytes. I know there was some previous discussion on mathing them out in a big unit of 20-30, but unsure if it was worth the points investment.

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1 hour ago, Kirjava13 said:

Yeah, me too in truth. It's just an irritation, but I would rather have the book than not.

Sky Skaven Spotted! Clan Skryre has definitely got flying machines of their own. Arch-Warlock Steelklaw has his own skyfleet: "Built around cannibalised Kharadron craft and the fevered designs that have poured from Steelklaw's mind, dozens of armoured dirigibles, lightning-ships, warpfire barges and klawbombers take to the sky." The best bit? It's called "The Much-Great Sky-Kill Air Armada" 😂

Link please! That sounds awesome.

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11 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Better than some. They're easy to convert but...it's just not the same. That said, I saw a nice facebook post of someone taking Drakefire Guns + Stormvermin and making "Acolytes" out of them holding "Gas-globe Launchers" and it apparently took no fiddling or green-stuff usage.

So yeah, needless to say I have some Drakefire bits coming in the next few days to give this a try. Now I just need to find a use for Acolytes. I know there was some previous discussion on mathing them out in a big unit of 20-30, but unsure if it was worth the points investment.

I will be running fifteen (twenty, if I can bring myself to blutac the wrong heads onto them...) of them in a battle tomorrow, so I can add some small insight after that.

My own recipe is:

- gas mask head (Doomwheel/Warplightning Cannon kit)

- Stormvermin body

- sword/hand weapon arm (Clanrats/Stormvermin)

- globe arm (cut-down Ghoul arm, green stuff globe)

- backpack (Adeptus Mechanicus Skitarii)

My meagre kitbashing skills aside, they look pretty good.

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6 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

I will be running fifteen (twenty, if I can bring myself to blutac the wrong heads onto them...) of them in a battle tomorrow, so I can add some small insight after that.

My own recipe is:

- gas mask head (Doomwheel/Warplightning Cannon kit)

- Stormvermin body

- sword/hand weapon arm (Clanrats/Stormvermin)

- globe arm (cut-down Ghoul arm, green stuff globe)

- backpack (Adeptus Mechanicus Skitarii)

My meagre kitbashing skills aside, they look pretty good.

Look forward to hearing what they accomplish then. If it's worth it, I will definitely bring some along to sit behind some Clanrats. Mine unfortunately look horrific being Plague Monks + Electropriest arm + Skitarii backpacks... so I think I will greatly prefer these even if they don't look as Acolytle-y.

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7 hours ago, Kirjava13 said:

The only thing I would be wary of with six Stormfiends- apart from how much less impactful they can be in combat now you have to take mixed weapons- is battleshock. A bad roll losing you one Stormvermin is bearable. Losing a six or seven wound model the same way would sting.

dont understand the logic.  If you lose 1 stormfiend, and you roll a 6 for battleshock, you are going to lose 1 more, no matter if the unit had 3 or 6.    If you lose 3  models, sure you could lose the rest of the unit, but you have to ask yourself why you got yourself into such a situation in the first place (That you lost 20+ wounds with a 4+ save in 1 round...)And presumably you had 2 groups of 3 instead... if you charged them into the same place, I don't think the results are that different 

Not saying a group of 6 makes sense. It probably doesn't. but not for battleshock reasons 

 

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So after much consternation and thinking over i think the list i want to run will start as something like:

Verminlord Warbringer 
   -General: Beastial Furry (once per game +3 all melee attacks)  
   -Thingsbane (+1 damage to one weapon)
Verminlord Deciever
Verminlord Warpseer
Claw Lord

40x Clan rats
40x Clan rats
40x Storm Vermin

Warp Lightning vortex
+1 CP

As i said before i think the Warbringer is an actual murderer when set up to do so.  The Warbringer is also a good force multiplier for the stormvermin, who also make for a great Hammer. +1 CP is important as even going second you can use the warpseer's auto pass battle shock ability, and the warpseer gives the option of reliably using both the claw lord and the Warbringer's command ability multiple times.  The Deciever is the one i'm most on the fence about, i mainly just like the option he provides for dread skitter leap (set up more than 6"), making the warbringer more of a threat to more of the board.  Guess i just like the option of forcing my opponent to make a more extragent screen, so that i can find more openings for the stormvermin and warbringer.  Lastly, the vortex is there as the list has 3 two spell wizards, who can't learn a 2nd spell, between them they can continuously recast the warp lightning for damage, and to slow down the enemy army.

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In a "Pure" Pestilens force (all units are Pestilens with the allowed exception of a Masterclan General), Plague Monks become Battleline.  If the General is also Pestilens, Nurgle becomes an allowed Ally (the ONLY allowed ally within Skaventide).  But to take Nurgle units, you now no longer have 100% Pestilens and cannot use Plague Monks as battleline.  Seems clear to me, but that is also somewhat upsetting.

On the otherhand, if you Include a Master Moulder in a mixed clan army, you can still make use of his buff on any Hell Pit Abominations you would otherwise include, and any number of Clawlords in a mixed clan army can get command traits. 

Skaventide's clan/ally rules are pretty unique but I don't know if that's a good thing.

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36 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

The Deciever is the one i'm most on the fence about, i mainly just like the option he provides for dread skitter leap (set up more than 6"), making the warbringer more of a threat to more of the board.

I've been having trouble finding a reason to take him now as well outside of Pure Eshin. I want him to charge in and put damage on heroes, but the average damage coming out on the stiletto really isn't that great compared to a buffed Warbringer who also supports your Stormvermin and Clanrats.

I dunno, 300 points for a spell seems like a huge investment when you can just get a regular Skitterleap (albeit you'd need a 9" charge) instead and put points elsewhere.. Like adding in Shackles for the Warp Lightning Vortex.

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5 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

I've been having trouble finding a reason to take him now as well outside of Pure Eshin. I want him to charge in and put damage on heroes, but the average damage coming out on the stiletto really isn't that great compared to a buffed Warbringer who also supports your Stormvermin and Clanrats.

I dunno, 300 points for a spell seems like a huge investment when you can just get a regular Skitterleap (albeit you'd need a 9" charge) instead and put points elsewhere.. Like adding in Shackles for the Warp Lightning Vortex.

If i replaced him in my list i think it would be with the screaming bell. So i don't need to have CP to use the Warpseer command ability. See like the warpseer is great for CP generation, and the orb throw+ his spell can be a great once per game hero sniper. The dread leap is great, but as you say it's like spending 300pts for just a spell x.x. 

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8 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

If i replaced him in my list i think it would be with the screaming bell. So i don't need to have CP to use the Warpseer command ability. See like the warpseer is great for CP generation, and the orb throw+ his spell can be a great once per game hero sniper. The dread leap is great, but as you say it's like spending 300pts for just a spell x.x. 

As has been discussed earlier (or another one of our many threads...), I think the redundancy alone of the battleshock aura from the Bell + Warpseer is great to have and with you running a heavy Verminous setup, I think this is a no-brainer. You could just as easily take the lore of ruin Skitterleap + cogs for the points difference and turn that 9" charge into a 7".

Hell, you could just roll a 12 on Peal and summon the Deceiver in anyway.

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So kind of a stupid question but would death frenzy via grey seer lore and dreaded death frenzy via warbringer stack?

 

Hypothetical scenario 

I have a warbringer on his deathbed and hit him with both spells during the hero phase with a grey deer and the warbringer.

During the combat phase, I used a clawlord's command ability on him and popped beastal fury for +4 attacks on the warbringer

I pile in and attack with the warbringer

Other player attacks the clawlord and it uses verminus valor trait to hide behind the rabid dying warbringer killing the warbringer instead.

Would the warbringer only get 1 pile in/attack or would each spell proc allowing it be able to pile in twice for a glorious swansong of carnage?

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1 minute ago, Overread said:

Say how are assassins handled now? I note that they appear to have become Deathmasters, but otherwise are they essentially the same and thus running several is a viable option for some sneaky fun with the only real limit being that they come from the leader pool 

I feel like they have some of the best artifacts in the book, and they're definitely pretty good at stabbin'.  If Gutter Runners weren't so expensive ($15 for 3??), I'd almost definitely be running Eshin.

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