AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Gwendar]

6 hours ago, Cblackaus said:

How are you all travelling against DoK? In Theory it looks

like a good match up for us, but haven’t seen too many stories from the table

Exceptionally well, so far I'm 2-0 against them, granted the first player really, really misplayed his game. Bottom line is this: They tend to rely on horde units (Aelves\SoS) and your answer to that is Warpfire which you can easily park behind your clanrat screens that they will inevitably charge into and then proceed to  get torched on your turn, assuming they don't get a double. Their heroes are also highly susceptible to shooting, of which we have plenty and I always take 2 WLC's for this reason.

[Ashes]

I’ve a question on the artefact Blistrevous when put on a Priest on Plague Furnace:

does the re-roll of Hit rolls for attacks count for all attacks on the warscroll (including the fortis blades etc.) or just for the one staff attack of the priest?

[Gwendar]

So, the game against Tzeentch went much better than I had anticipated it to. He did seem to forget a few of his rules, one of which is his Lord of Change matching his highest casting\unbinding dice...although I'm not sure it would've helped him much.

We played Duality of Death at 2k

My List

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
- General
- Trait: Verminous Valour 
- Artefact: Suspicious Stone 
Thanquol on Boneripper (400)
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Grey Seer (120)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap
Warlock Bombardier (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: Warp Lightning Shield

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

War Machines
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Endless Spells
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 137
 

His List

Spoiler

Unsure of his spells\CT used

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
- General
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
- Artefact: Wraithbow 
Magister (140)
The Blue Scribes (140)
Herald of Tzeentch (140)
- Staff of Change

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
30 x Kairic Acolytes (240)

Behemoths
Mutalith Vortex Beast (200)

Endless Spells
Umbral Spellportal (60)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 96
 

T1
He finishes first and decides to take first turn and he stacks all of his army on his left\my right leaving only the Vortex Beast to attempt to capture the other objective. Right out of the gate he gets the spellportal off and kills a 20 unit of Clanrats on my right with a few spells that I fail to\am out of unbind range on but not much else happens... He didn't try to move any of his heroes\Vortex beast onto the objectives and decided to hold back which definitely cost him in the end.

My turn sees the WLV go off and he fails the unbind by 1 if I recall and it proceeds to start ripping apart his cluster of heroes as it likes to do. I run the Bombardier (disguised as an regular Engineer thanks a painfully slow ebay seller...) to the right objective to capture it but I misplay the left objective and bunch up too many Clanrats prevented Thanquol or the Warpseer to get in the 3" range. End 1-0 VP's.


T2
I get the double but my Warpseer continues to never get off Warpgale which has only gone off 1-2 times in my last 3 games. WLV furthers shreds in movement and Cannons + Warpseer + Clanrats kill off the Vortex Beast and I start capping the left side. Meanwhile the right side Clanrats charge his Acolytes and I string them out to reduce casualties and create a screen for my Grey Seer and Bombardier.

On his turn I manage to unbind a few of his spells but he does dispell the WLV. He only kills around 8 Clanrats out of the 40-rat unit on the left with what does go off and manages to summon in a Herald on Disc + Blue Horrors. Lots of shooting targeted at the Warpseer with only 1 going through. The WLV goes off again and gets most of his heroes down to a 1-3 wounds left.  End 4-0 VP's.



T3
I take priority and re-cast WLV on a 13 (wonderful way to end) with Thanquol to finish off all but 2 of his Heroes while the WLC's put an end to the Lord of Change as he decides to concede at the end of my turn with me going 9-0 on VP's.


Overall Thoughts
I continue to really like this list and I just don't know that I would want to change it drastically by taking out Thanquol for more Clanrats\Rat Ogres\Acolytes\Gutter Runners. It definitely heavily relies on spell damage, namely with the Vortex... if anyone places heroes even remotely close together there's a good chance I will be dropping it there and Thanquol with a +2\3 isn't an easy unbind.

I think the only change I will be making for now is to remove 1 Warpfire Thrower and beef up another Clanrat unit to 40 as I was pretty sad about a single 20-rat unit getting completely wiped T1. Next time I may drop both WLC's and test out 9 Jezzails just for the hell of it and somewhere along the line I'll work to include 20 Acolytes. Unfortunately this will probably mean I would have to drop things I care about (like the Warpseer\Grey Seer\Thanquol) and I'm unsure of the payoff in comparison. Ah well, back to testing\theory-crafting. Thanks for reading, would love to hear everyone's thoughts.

[gronnelg]

3 hours ago, Russrmc said:

Ooh then that's a new change... The nighthaunt example validates out in the app and builders just fine and I've seen it at events. Interesting... Skaven really are a race apart! 

I don't think the warscroll builder filters out illegal battalion - allegiance combos, does it? 

[gronnelg]

@GwendarÀ pleasure to read your battle report! Cool list! I suppose you would struggle against a strong magic list, like LoN? But other than that, this list seems pretty strong? How do you outfit Thanquol? And how do you fare against elite heavy armies? 

[Gwendar]

18 minutes ago, gronnelg said:

@GwendarÀ pleasure to read your battle report! Cool list! I suppose you would struggle against a strong magic list, like LoN? But other than that, this list seems pretty strong? How do you outfit Thanquol? And how do you fare against elite heavy armies? 

Thanks! I wanted to test that theory by playing Tzeentch with a LoC but like I think he could've done better.. I'll need to rematch him soon. Nagash, Arkhan or anyone with auto-unbinds or + to cast would be able to contend with it but I don't rely too heavily on magic thanks to cannons and death-frenzied 40-rat Clanrat units.

Thanquol is 2 Warpfire and 2 Braziers to make him balanced against whatever decides to charge him (if they manage to get past the 20\40 Clanrats) but I have yet to go against an elite army as their really aren't any in my area aside from an occasional IJ player, which I've yet to play against. To be honest, I think this could handle even that reasonably well if I bog them down with Shackles\Clanrats\WLV and shoot\spellcast them down. I try to make lists that have an answer to everything and are not too specialized.

FeC I would potentially struggle against but I mean... who isn't struggling against heavy Gristlegore lists currently?

[Noit]

7 hours ago, Gwendar said:

So, the game against Tzeentch went much better than I had anticipated it to. He did seem to forget a few of his rules, one of which is his Lord of Change matching his highest casting\unbinding dice...although I'm not sure it would've helped him much.

We played Duality of Death at 2k

My List

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
- General
- Trait: Verminous Valour 
- Artefact: Suspicious Stone 
Thanquol on Boneripper (400)
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Grey Seer (120)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap
Warlock Bombardier (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: Warp Lightning Shield

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

War Machines
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Endless Spells
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 137
 

His List

  Reveal hidden contents

Unsure of his spells\CT used

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
- General
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
- Artefact: Wraithbow 
Magister (140)
The Blue Scribes (140)
Herald of Tzeentch (140)
- Staff of Change

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
30 x Kairic Acolytes (240)

Behemoths
Mutalith Vortex Beast (200)

Endless Spells
Umbral Spellportal (60)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 96
 

T1
He finishes first and decides to take first turn and he stacks all of his army on his left\my right leaving only the Vortex Beast to attempt to capture the other objective. Right out of the gate he gets the spellportal off and kills a 20 unit of Clanrats on my right with a few spells that I fail to\am out of unbind range on but not much else happens... He didn't try to move any of his heroes\Vortex beast onto the objectives and decided to hold back which definitely cost him in the end.

My turn sees the WLV go off and he fails the unbind by 1 if I recall and it proceeds to start ripping apart his cluster of heroes as it likes to do. I run the Bombardier (disguised as an regular Engineer thanks a painfully slow ebay seller...) to the right objective to capture it but I misplay the left objective and bunch up too many Clanrats prevented Thanquol or the Warpseer to get in the 3" range. End 1-0 VP's.


T2
I get the double but my Warpseer continues to never get off Warpgale which has only gone off 1-2 times in my last 3 games. WLV furthers shreds in movement and Cannons + Warpseer + Clanrats kill off the Vortex Beast and I start capping the left side. Meanwhile the right side Clanrats charge his Acolytes and I string them out to reduce casualties and create a screen for my Grey Seer and Bombardier.

On his turn I manage to unbind a few of his spells but he does dispell the WLV. He only kills around 8 Clanrats out of the 40-rat unit on the left with what does go off and manages to summon in a Herald on Disc + Blue Horrors. Lots of shooting targeted at the Warpseer with only 1 going through. The WLV goes off again and gets most of his heroes down to a 1-3 wounds left.  End 4-0 VP's.



T3
I take priority and re-cast WLV on a 13 (wonderful way to end) with Thanquol to finish off all but 2 of his Heroes while the WLC's put an end to the Lord of Change as he decides to concede at the end of my turn with me going 9-0 on VP's.


Overall Thoughts
I continue to really like this list and I just don't know that I would want to change it drastically by taking out Thanquol for more Clanrats\Rat Ogres\Acolytes\Gutter Runners. It definitely heavily relies on spell damage, namely with the Vortex... if anyone places heroes even remotely close together there's a good chance I will be dropping it there and Thanquol with a +2\3 isn't an easy unbind.

I think the only change I will be making for now is to remove 1 Warpfire Thrower and beef up another Clanrat unit to 40 as I was pretty sad about a single 20-rat unit getting completely wiped T1. Next time I may drop both WLC's and test out 9 Jezzails just for the hell of it and somewhere along the line I'll work to include 20 Acolytes. Unfortunately this will probably mean I would have to drop things I care about (like the Warpseer\Grey Seer\Thanquol) and I'm unsure of the payoff in comparison. Ah well, back to testing\theory-crafting. Thanks for reading, would love to hear everyone's thoughts.

Are stormfiend still worthy?

For example drop thanquol,Shackles and 20 clanrats for two Stormfiends.

[bushman101]

Hey. I'm trying to re-organize my PackMasters and I have a few with the Shock Prods.

Should they be Rusty Blades or Thing-Catchers?

[Baron Wastelands]

6 minutes ago, bushman101 said:

Hey. I'm trying to re-organize my PackMasters and I have a few with the Shock Prods.

Should they be Rusty Blades or Thing-Catchers?

I’d say things-catchers, as you need whips with the blades on packmasters. I’m using mine as a master-moulder though; in which case things-catcher again.

[Fleabag]

Hello folks! 

I'm putting together an army and wondering what people think of this list?

 

Leaders

Thanquol and Boneripper (400)

Grey Seer (120)

Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (200)

Warlock Bombardier (100)

 

Battleline

Clanrats x 40 (200)

Clanrats x 20 (120)

Clanrats x 20 (120)

 

Artillery

Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Warplock Jezzails (140)

 

Other

Stormfiends x 3 (260)

Ratling Gun (80)

Ratling Gun (80)

 

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, Noit said:

Are stormfiend still worthy?

For example drop thanquol,Shackles and 20 clanrats for two Stormfiends.

To me? Absolutely not... they have no place in my lists anymore unfortunately. I would much rather bring more Clanrats, Jezzails, Acolytes, Gutter Runners, etc than bring Stormfiends. Them not being able to specialize kills their usefulness for me. I want to beef up Clanrat units as that is what captures objectives and stormfiends tend to not do that very well by comparison. 
 

1 hour ago, Fleabag said:

*snip*

Are you set on those Stormfiends? Many of us seem to be leaning towards dropping them nowadays in favor of a lot of other things. In this particular case I would say to drop them to add in 3 more Jezzails. Units of 3 Jezzails will not accomplish much of anything and really need 6-9 minimum.

This would leave you with 120 points which you could use to bring Warp-Lightning Vortex, add in more bodies, etc. I can't speak for the ratling guns as I don't use them, but others seem to have had success. Could also drop them as well towards another WLC or Warpfire Throwers to sit in your Clanrat units. Hell, throw in a couple units of 5-10 Gutter Runners for objectives or a cheap distraction\squishy targeting unit.

We have a lot of options now and experimentation is key in finding what works best for you and your local meta.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Gwendar

[Cblackaus]

Stormfiends are still very viable - IMHO far more than most other units.  The reason being is they can serve multiple roles.  I take a unit of 6 with 2 windlaunchers, 2 rattling guns and 2 combat weapons.  What does this give me - a unit with very potent long (30inches not needing LoS) shooting, brutal short and medium range shooting and solid combat.  They still benefit from more, more and sparks.  Way more versatile than a unit of jezzails that do 1 thing well.  The no LoS is essential for so many armies - Sylvaneth and Gloomspite as prime examples.  

[Cblackaus]

Here’s my latest build - it is a mixed arms force and (played well) it has answers to all the current armies out there.  It has answers to hordes, to flyers, to elites, to alpha armies.

[Noit]

Skavenresults at Heat 1 2019:

 

[Xasto]

25 minutes ago, Noit said:

Skavenresults at Heat 1 2019:

 

Anyone knows what Gary P played? 

[Skavelynn]

2 hours ago, Cblackaus said:

Stormfiends are still very viable - IMHO far more than most other units.  The reason being is they can serve multiple roles.  I take a unit of 6 with 2 windlaunchers, 2 rattling guns and 2 combat weapons.  What does this give me - a unit with very potent long (30inches not needing LoS) shooting, brutal short and medium range shooting and solid combat.  They still benefit from more, more and sparks.  Way more versatile than a unit of jezzails that do 1 thing well.  The no LoS is essential for so many armies - Sylvaneth and Gloomspite as prime examples.  

520 pts for that unit is very expensive though, especially adding in the costs of an engineer used to buff the ratling cannons. It's the same issue that stormvermin have but also with the addition of fiends lacking a defined role. If you go all ranged you'll have a stormfiend sitting around doing nothing for most of the game, and all melee is mostly outclassed by rat ogres + packmaster for the same cost. 

I agree stormfiends aren't bad and are still pretty decent if you want to use them, but for 520 points I'd rather take WLC, engineers, ratling guns, jezzails for shooting,  or a bunch of ogres and master moulder for close combat. Maybe even a mix of both. I heard gutter runners have been doing well too 😋

Edited March 4, 2019 by Skavelynn

[Cblackaus]

1 hour ago, Skavelynn said:

520 pts for that unit is very expensive though, especially adding in the costs of an engineer used to buff the ratling cannons. It's the same issue that stormvermin have but also with the addition of fiends lacking a defined role. If you go all ranged you'll have a stormfiend sitting around doing nothing for most of the game, and all melee is mostly outclassed by rat ogres + packmaster for the same cost. 

I agree stormfiends aren't bad and are still pretty decent if you want to use them, but for 520 points I'd rather take WLC, engineers, ratling guns, jezzails for shooting,  or a bunch of ogres and master moulder for close combat. Maybe even a mix of both. I heard gutter runners have been doing well too 😋

On the contrary - they have a very defined role that nothing in the army can do - destroy units at range and in close combat.  They can destroy units that WLC and jezzails can’t - nearly those hiding.  Unlike either they can brutalize units in combat.l - or approaching combat.   The set with 2 rattling cannons is brutal.  With a warp - they do 6D6 hits (21) hitting and wounding  on 4s with -1rend and 2 dmg.  With re-rolls you can nearly take off a unit of 10 sequitors.   And then you can shoot with the wind launchers.  And then there is the combat.    Nothing else in the book or the game can do this.  Unlike WLC or jezzails - they compete in every phase of the game.  The only relative weakness is lack of numbers - but that’s why you fill out with clan rats.  

[Num]

1 hour ago, Skavelynn said:

520 pts for that unit is very expensive though, especially adding in the costs of an engineer used to buff the ratling cannons. It's the same issue that stormvermin have but also with the addition of fiends lacking a defined role. If you go all ranged you'll have a stormfiend sitting around doing nothing for most of the game, and all melee is mostly outclassed by rat ogres + packmaster for the same cost. 

I agree stormfiends aren't bad and are still pretty decent if you want to use them, but for 520 points I'd rather take WLC, engineers, ratling guns, jezzails for shooting,  or a bunch of ogres and master moulder for close combat. Maybe even a mix of both. I heard gutter runners have been doing well too 😋

Im going to test a unit of 6 bubble warped by clanrats in some upcoming 1k game.

I was put off by the nerf at first, but throwing some test dice and crunching the numbers, they still look pretty powerful to me...

Instead of seeing them as a unit with no precise role, I now see them as a unit fulfilling all roles! 2 rattling pumped by sparks and more more warp power crushes about anything already. And that's only 2 stormfiends of the unit. For a close combat unit, you can then take two warpfire and crush another unit brutally again (with no drawback unlike for the warpfire thrower). And after all that, you can still annihilate what's left to annihilate with 8 shock attacks plus 16 more normal attacks.

Again, I haven't played them since the new battletome. But to me they still seem worth their point cost.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Num

[Baron Wastelands]

3 hours ago, Skavelynn said:

If you go all ranged you'll have a stormfiend sitting around doing nothing for most of the game, and all melee is mostly outclassed by rat ogres + packmaster for the same cost. 

But taking wounds is not doing nothing. Even if you don’t get into melee, that melee stormfiend gives you +7 wounds to take before you start reducing your ranged capacity. In a unit of 3 you can soak 12 damage before it takes out any guns, in a unit of 6, 19 wounds.

[Overread]

Stormfiends are a jack-of-all-trades unit which makes them very adaptable to a changing game state. They are also good at both range and close combat so unlike some units that try to be skirmishers, they are not "bad" in any one role. This is very powerful on its own and whilst you can't fully make them dedicated toward one specific goal you can get close and have a unit that is able to deal damage in pretty much every turn. 

 

In contrast something like Warplocks is very singular in its focus; it can do one thing and one thing only which is long distance shooting. Though personally I feel like they should have a better to hit/wound roll or more shots. 

 

 

[Kugane]

Has anyone played with the bombardier? Kind of wonder if its worth using him like a damage bomb with his buff. Nearly done painting him and would love to add it to the army.

[Dracan]

Played vs beastmen with my stormfiends this past weekend in two units of 3, and they where devastating...

With an arch warlock behind giving them sparks in the shooting phase and the more more spell along with vigor dust injector did crazy amounts of damage... 

Trhough the game they killed 25 ungor raiders  with 1 warp flamer, killed 5 dragon ogres, 2 chimeras and a dragon ogre shagoth with shooting, 1 dragon ogre and 10 bestigors in cc.

for the cost of 2 stormfiends killed by 10man bestigor charge.

 1 unit had the flamer ratling and shock gauntlets the other doomflayer wind launcher and ratling.

Id play them again... and even look into putting them into a unit of 6, they dont even need to be screened as they will do just fine if charged.

might even get 3 more for ...9 😮 

[GoddammitGary]

10 hours ago, Xasto said:

Anyone knows what Gary P played? 

Allegiance: Skaventide
Thanquol on Boneripper (400)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic 
- Artefact: Suspicious Stone 
Warlock Bombardier (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: Warp Lightning Shield
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
6 x Warplock Jezzails (280)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 150

[Xasto]

2 minutes ago, GoddammitGary said:

Allegiance: Skaventide
Thanquol on Boneripper (400)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic 
- Artefact: Suspicious Stone 
Warlock Bombardier (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: Warp Lightning Shield
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
6 x Warplock Jezzails (280)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 150

Thanks Gary! Do you plan on keeping the Thanquol for future lists? 

[Noit]

3 minutes ago, GoddammitGary said:

Allegiance: Skaventide
Thanquol on Boneripper (400)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic 
- Artefact: Suspicious Stone 
Warlock Bombardier (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: Warp Lightning Shield
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
6 x Warplock Jezzails (280)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 150

Thanks and Congratulations!