AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Skreech Verminking]

44 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

I thought the Skaven ally wording was like the Beastmen thing (can't take compendium units)

Mostly because I dont think it is still possible for an army to ally with itself.  Or is there an argument that the GHB allegiances/ally matrix are still usable?

The problem we have just is that Skaventide isn’t listed as allies in the allie chart for the Skaventide faction.

[kenshin620]

I suppose so, but still it is odd they specifically said "skaven" which to me says the old compendium factions, rather than the racial keyword.

Granted the skaven compendium is...2 units (well 4 with the globe mortar and the warhammer quest guys.)

 

[Kramer]

So I played my first game with the new tome. 1400pts due to my opponent playing my limited collection KO an #noproxy2019 is a thing in our group.

So just like I always ask people to share their finding i'll do the same. Just in case it helps  We played starstike. 

- Due to som every improbable rolls for terrain, we randomised two long wall sections end to end. This meant a section of the battlefield was walled off but the objectives could land behind it, and one did. So I used a Gnawhole to have a quick movement option to get there. But.... even then the penalty of only sending 1 unit was to much for me. I just grabbed it with Gutter Runners. Any tips on the teleportation let me know. But I want my units supported, so only a unit, or the Hero is to risky. 

- The Screaming bell is a tank when supported by 40 clanrats. He charged him with 6 Endrinriggers. But by leaving the smallest gap for my bell to move forward, I also limited his attacks. The bravery buff is great, had pretty decent rolls on the bell. Spells are tricky though. Thought Cracked Call against 4" dwarfs would be good, took splinter to take out the special weapons... but it was very unimpressive, will experiment further though.

- Stormvermin are just not the elites that they should be. Brought 20, charged 10 arkanauts and tagged in a Gunhauler... Gunhauler dropped a delaying bomb. They killed one, lost the to hit bonus, only killed 4 + 3 wounds on the Gunhauler. Granted forgot to the Clawlords Command ability, so that's on me. 

- Don't forget the shooting on the Rat Ogres, did suprising Damage. Mispositioned them so only two saw combat, They did alright, no Master Moulder there to buff them sadly. 

- Gutter runners are still amazing. Didn't fire a shot but still won me the game, easy! 

- Assassin that can pop up everywhere is great. 

- The flee and charge is the best, best, best asset we have. You Just cant be contained by an more elite army.

- A wounded Gnawlord with the +3 attacks ability can do some great damage... unless you roll like this 😂

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Kramer

[Kirjava13]

Always good to have more battle reports @Kramer, cheers!

[Skavelynn]

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

- Stormvermin are just not the elites that they should be. Brought 20, charged 10 arkanauts and tagged in a Gunhauler... Gunhauler dropped a delaying bomb. They killed one, lost the to hit bonus, only killed 4 + 3 wounds on the Gunhauler. Granted forgot to the Clawlords Command ability, so that's on me. 

Stormvermin have disappointed me in almost all my games with them, I'm not sure if I am missing something about them or if my dice have just been very mean to them. Even as battleline I think having clanrats is more useful in most situations. They need max unit size and/or a clawlord to be good in my opinion, but it's just so expensive. I'd rather take more rat ogres, WLC, HPA or stormfiends. Nice battle report btw 😄

[Kramer]

9 minutes ago, Skavelynn said:

Stormvermin have disappointed me in almost all my games with them, I'm not sure if I am missing something about them or if my dice have just been very mean to them. Even as battleline I think having clanrats is more useful in most situations. They need max unit size and/or a clawlord to be good in my opinion, but it's just so expensive. I'd rather take more rat ogres, WLC, HPA or stormfiends. Nice battle report btw 😄

Yeah, same here. Rat ogres are vulnerable though. And 40 clanrats rule for a lot less points. But like I said, misplayed the rat ogres and lost two to shooting and my master moulder to a rogue charge. But still the two left seemed more imposing. 

[Rangeltoft]

Just want to dubblecheck if I understand things correctly.

If I want a spellcaster in a otherwise pure Clan Moulder Army, it needs to be a Masterclan General (Grey Seer, Screaming Bell or masterclan Verminlord) and then only the one, otherwise I need to include Clanrats for my battleline?

/Cheers Rangeltoft

[Skreech Verminking]

Thanks for the battlereport @Kramer.

Anyways I’ve been experimenting with the Stormvermins a lot.

they great thing about them is really that allegiance buff every horde Skaventide unit can use, which makes them fantastic when attacking as long as they don’t die before that, still 500p seem a lot and sometimes just feels overpriced.

The Problem we get with Stormvermins though is that they loose in worth rather quick especially when taken in 30s or 20s.

just by loosing your bonus because 1 whole model who literally only has 1wound dies, will mean that they go from great to bad.

If somebody wants to use Stormvermins in teams of 20, I would suggest him/her to just run 4ratogres and a Master Moulder  which does cost 20p more, but in smaller games or better said  will always outdamage them.

wanting to take Stormvermins in tens is just a no go since they can’t benefit from any buffs not even their shields when loosing 1guy, meaning that the blind-fish-things will just laugh at them.

In total, the Stormvermins really deserve a pointdecrease even if it’s just 20points.

still they can dish out some great damage, although sadly you would have to pay the full 500p to really benefit from them.

Edited March 2, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[MasterMoulder]

1 hour ago, Rangeltoft said:

Just want to dubblecheck if I understand things correctly.

If I want a spellcaster in a otherwise pure Clan Moulder Army, it needs to be a Masterclan General (Grey Seer, Screaming Bell or masterclan Verminlord) and then only the one, otherwise I need to include Clanrats for my battleline?

/Cheers Rangeltoft

That is correct. Thanquol also works.

[AngryPlatypus]

Quote

 

Screaming Bell

Engineer

Engineer

x40 Clanrats

x40 Clanrats

x40 Clanrats

Warp Lightning Cannon 

Warp Lightning Cannon 

Warp Lightning Cannon 

Doomwheel

Doomwheel

-

Warp Lightening Vortex

The Burning Head

 

So I've come to this. Only thing I kinda want to change are the Doomwheels, but they put massive pressure on the enemy to deal with them rather than shoot my clan rats.

I have a warpseer / warbringer verminlord in case of a roll of 12 on the bell.

Edited March 2, 2019 by AngryPlatypus

[gronnelg]

@AngryPlatypus I've run a similar list in the past, with clanrats and lots of WLCs. The problem is you'll be relying on the WLCs to do most of the heavy lifting.  If they have no answers for the cannons (range damage to take them out, or MW protection) the WLCs are really great though!
I haven't really tried doomwheels all that much, so not familiar with how they perform. I would be tempted to drop them both (and pherhaps and engineer), and replace them with 1-2 units of 5 gutter runners to put pressure on objectives, and then a melee unit with some punch. Plague monks, or rat ogors pherhaps. 

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

11 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Yep your right just had another look at the warsroll.

Hmmm to me that still needs clarification maybe there is a similar unit that would clear it up? (I am leaning towards yes you get command as it seems like a way to prevent people spamming all the commmand models like some used too before the update) With The new upgraded book I would love to msu them since ten monks are super dangerous! But also twenty can get horde bonuses... it’s a toss up but if they truly can have full command at ten then I’ll run one or two mobs of 40 with staves and msu the rest with knives

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

So my next question is how do people feel about the change in pestilens? It seems as though individual units became stronger, but the max damage thru buffs became weaker. Although we get an awesome anti horde prayer and look out sir in combat (which will make me more apt to use the charge bonus priests get!) and the Center piece model became an auto include! The furnace is tough to take out while also a good mortal wound dealer! And with the only buff prayers the army has it became so much more important! I believe it’ll be a definite target against many a foe.... all and all I do like the new changes, as the extra mortal wound out put thru books and the new prayer puts us in line with other armies and I think shores up my weakness against 2 plus rerollable saves a certain army seems to get quite easily....

so thoughts on this particular clan? (Also sorry for causing those civil wars guys, no hard feelings in the new realms?)

oh another thing is the new terrain pieces! Gnaw holes seem awesome! And give pestilens mobility that is pretty nice (also with three I think it will be helpful vs Sylvaneth)

[angrycontra]

5 minutes ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

So my next question is how do people feel about the change in pestilens? It seems as though individual units became stronger, but the max damage thru buffs became weaker. Although we get an awesome anti horde prayer and look out sir in combat (which will make me more apt to use the charge bonus priests get!) and the Center piece model became an auto include! The furnace is tough to take out while also a good mortal wound dealer! And with the only buff prayers the army has it became so much more important! I believe it’ll be a definite target against many a foe.... all and all I do like the new changes, as the extra mortal wound out put thru books and the new prayer puts us in line with other armies and I think shores up my weakness against 2 plus rerollable saves a certain army seems to get quite easily....

so thoughts on this particular clan? (Also sorry for causing those civil wars guys, no hard feelings in the new realms?)

oh another thing is the new terrain pieces! Gnaw holes seem awesome! And give pestilens mobility that is pretty nice (also with three I think it will be helpful vs Sylvaneth)

Honestly I think pestilens might be the most broken thing in the book. Speaking competetively, I consider pure pestilens to be easily the strongest form of army in this new skaven battletome. Plague monk deal like 4 times the clanrat damage if not more (and this is not a joke), clanrats are tiny bit tougher to kill but not enough to make difference and all this for tiny 40p difference for max size units. Plague monks have currently easily the highest damage output for their points in game (fully buffed unit does something like 90+ wounds on average against 4+ sv in single combat round). Furnace on the other hand, is the single toughest hero for its cost in the game right now, no contest. 180 for 13w with 4+ and 5++ and look-out sir on top of that (both range and melee). The closest thing to it is horticulous slimux and that one still doesn't hold a candle. Then you add easy mortals, prayers and bshock immunity aura and you have the most underpriced hero in the game. Screaming bell too obviously.

Mark my words, pestilens is gonna be nerfed in the future. I was shocked to see their points unchanged after the outrageous buffs they received (and it's quite a joke to look at nightrunner warscroll/points and compare it plague monks, what were they thinking). The straw that broke camel's back imo was giving plague monks that horde bonus (+1 to hit/wound) and no point changes and funnily enough they removed that ability from clanrats warscroll, which means clanrats are exactly same as before while plague monks got nothing but buffs. 

[Skreech Verminking]

5 minutes ago, angrycontra said:

Honestly I think pestilens might be the most broken thing in the book. Speaking competetively, I consider pure pestilens to be easily the strongest form of army in this new skaven battletome. Plague monk deal like 4 times the clanrat damage if not more (and this is not a joke), clanrats are tiny bit tougher to kill but not enough to make difference and all this for tiny 40p difference for max size units. Plague monks have currently easily the highest damage output for their points in game (fully buffed unit does something like 90+ wounds on average against 4+ sv in single combat round). Furnace on the other hand, is the single toughest hero for its cost in the game right now, no contest. 180 for 13w with 4+ and 5++ and look-out sir on top of that (both range and melee). The closest thing to it is horticulous slimux and that one still doesn't hold a candle. Then you add easy mortals, prayers and bshock immunity aura and you have the most underpriced hero in the game. Screaming bell too obviously.

Mark my words, pestilens is gonna be nerfed in the future. I was shocked to see their points unchanged after the outrageous buffs they received (and it's quite a joke to look at nightrunner warscroll/points and compare it plague monks, what were they thinking). The straw that broke camel's back imo was giving plague monks that horde bonus (+1 to hit/wound) and no point changes and funnily enough they removed that ability from clanrats warscroll, which means clanrats are exactly same as before while plague monks got nothing but buffs. 

Well, I guess there even might be chances that our plague monks won’t be greatly changed(with the exception of maybe a few point increases).

look at the witch aelves from daughter of khaine,

they are hilariously powerful can kill most elites units first turn, brake  hordes like they wer made out of sticks and even cost less then anything that could possibly come near their damage output.

 

[Kramer]

On 3/1/2019 at 4:59 PM, sorokyl said:

What they did not clarify, unfortunately. is whether SKAVENTIDE units can be allied into SKAVENTIDE, which is really what everyone wants to know (as all units in the new battletome were given the SKAVENTIDE keyword)

Which is still not a thing... I’m sorry to say so far nobody has given a single reference to a rule that supports this hope. 

Meanwhile page 242 of the core rule book specifically limits allies to those indicated in the ally chart, and that the newest source is leading. That source is page 128 of the Skaven Battletome. Which has no mention of allying in Skaventide being an option for an SKAVENTIDE army. 

So please everybody who keeps this idea  alive. What are your sources?  It’s crustal clear unless there is a source that contradicts the above core rules. 

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

47 minutes ago, angrycontra said:

Honestly I think pestilens might be the most broken thing in the book. Speaking competetively, I consider pure pestilens to be easily the strongest form of army in this new skaven battletome. Plague monk deal like 4 times the clanrat damage if not more (and this is not a joke), clanrats are tiny bit tougher to kill but not enough to make difference and all this for tiny 40p difference for max size units. Plague monks have currently easily the highest damage output for their points in game (fully buffed unit does something like 90+ wounds on average against 4+ sv in single combat round). Furnace on the other hand, is the single toughest hero for its cost in the game right now, no contest. 180 for 13w with 4+ and 5++ and look-out sir on top of that (both range and melee). The closest thing to it is horticulous slimux and that one still doesn't hold a candle. Then you add easy mortals, prayers and bshock immunity aura and you have the most underpriced hero in the game. Screaming bell too obviously.

Mark my words, pestilens is gonna be nerfed in the future. I was shocked to see their points unchanged after the outrageous buffs they received (and it's quite a joke to look at nightrunner warscroll/points and compare it plague monks, what were they thinking). The straw that broke camel's back imo was giving plague monks that horde bonus (+1 to hit/wound) and no point changes and funnily enough they removed that ability from clanrats warscroll, which means clanrats are exactly same as before while plague monks got nothing but buffs. 

You are correct in their power but have you seen other codexes? Skeletons can pump out 80 wounds with minimal buffs in a full unit,  (and come back if killed for one command point) ghouls and terrorgheists attacks twice will kill just about anything in their weight class and above with the new rules. Clan rats do have a bonus over pestilens (which is of course the ability to retreat and charge which does adds a bit of mobility) damage wise hilariously enough pestilens is weaker then before, it’s just base units that got stronger. A unit of ten could’ve attack 3 times 4uo re rolling while wounding on 2 up rerollable activating every ability on a 4 up (and this could get higher with more priests, I’m just using my 1000 point list I normally take with two priests and a furnace) that would overkill any thing in the game because on top of all that they attacked again if killed... and we all know they die a lot! I think the armour save was a stupid add on honestly but what evs. Also I think a pure pestilens force is still not the best becuase of their in ability to deal with spells (although an ally could help this of course, I personal,y don’t like using allies due to liking a pure force over a mixed one) they will make excellent shock troops in lists, and clan rats will still have a place becuase they are battleline so don’t worry about them! Honestly they seem in line with other armies troops when daughters, death, and other high damage factions. Especially when you count that daughters can get a 5 up 5 up 5 up, and death has saves vs everything. All and all they are cheap shock troops that still die to a stiff breeze but on the flip side cause other units to die just as easily, they will remain Uber powerful vs other melee armies while retaining weaknesses like magic and ranged. I think a price increase to 8 points or a drop in save may happen, but right now they seem fine

however the furnace is bonkers lol, I expected a price hike to 200 points haha, other then it’s tankiness it’s alright, no mobility to speak of and a great buff wagon (literally!) but of course we do have that aqshy relic to make it go fast 💨 but on the flip side it cannot move at all unless it has attendants... so that’s why it’s 180 points! Has absolutely no melee presence without at least 70 points of rats and can be turned into a piece of scenery lol, but again against melee opponents that’s less of an issue 

Edited March 2, 2019 by TheadTheOgorSlayer

[Vaeron]

7 hours ago, Kramer said:

Which is still not a thing... I’m sorry to say so far nobody has given a single reference to a rule that supports this hope. 

Meanwhile page 242 of the core rule book specifically limits allies to those indicated in the ally chart, and that the newest source is leading. That source is page 128 of the Skaven Battletome. Which has no mention of allying in Skaventide being an option for an SKAVENTIDE army. 

So please everybody who keeps this idea  alive. What are your sources?  It’s crustal clear unless there is a source that contradicts the above core rules. 

Aside from that, allying the faction you already belong to makes zero sense. "Shockingly, X decided to ally with X against Y, where both instances of X are the same group."

[Cblackaus]

How are you all travelling against DoK? In Theory it looks

like a good match up for us, but haven’t seen too many stories from the table

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Vaeron said:

Aside from that, allying the faction you already belong to makes zero sense. "Shockingly, X decided to ally with X against Y, where both instances of X are the same group."

Well annoyingly that seems to be the argument. Because now you are talking story instead of rules. And then there are of course plenty of reasons. Main one being clan Skryre bringing Clanrats because they needed bodies to test their weapons on/clanrats to sacrifice in battle/ their own clanrats because not every clan Skryre member runs around with globes and gas masks the whole dang time 😂

[gronnelg]

Can I use any of the battalions in the book, while having Skaventide allegiance? 

[Russrmc]

1 hour ago, gronnelg said:

Can I use any of the battalions in the book, while having Skaventide allegiance? 

Yes, if you pay the points and meet its requirements. This is actually even broader in its application because you can take battalions in different alliegances in those cases where there's crossover models... For example it may  be possible to take the plague ones in a Nurgle army if all thr pestilens models can be used in Nurgle, just as several of the nighthaunt battalions see use in Legion of Nagash armies due to those models being available for LoN. 

[Ecko]

27 minutes ago, Russrmc said:

Yes, if you pay the points and meet its requirements. This is actually even broader in its application because you can take battalions in different alliegances in those cases where there's crossover models... For example it may  be possible to take the plague ones in a Nurgle army if all thr pestilens models can be used in Nurgle, just as several of the nighthaunt battalions see use in Legion of Nagash armies due to those models being available for LoN. 

I don't think you can do this, Warscroll Battalion in the skaven battletome are SKAVENTIDE allegiance and therefore can4t be taken in another allegiance like nurgle

[Russrmc]

1 hour ago, Ecko said:

I don't think you can do this, Warscroll Battalion in the skaven battletome are SKAVENTIDE allegiance and therefore can4t be taken in another allegiance like nurgle

Ooh then that's a new change... The nighthaunt example validates out in the app and builders just fine and I've seen it at events. Interesting... Skaven really are a race apart! 

[Ecko]

1 minute ago, Russrmc said:

Ooh then that's a new change... The nighthaunt example validates out in the app and builders just fine and I've seen it at events. Interesting... Skaven really are a race apart! 

Well there is some exceptions that were faqued like the BoC Battalion you could play in a chaos god allegiance  (nurgle, khorne, etc ...) so maybe we will see the same thing but i doubt it