AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Cosmicsheep]

OK peeps... talk to me about Seraphon. I understand it's a pretty bad match-up for us. I have a 2k league match this week and i know my opponent is running Kroak, Astrolith Bearer and Thunder Lizards.

My current thinking is to take some WLC (and maybe jezzails) and keep them at a distance. I reckon if i kill any skinks with WFT i can just run around the board capping objectives while nibbling at the bigger stuff with the WLC

Spoiler

Something like this? Priests to heal/curse where appropriate. Thanquol to unbind croak. Grinder to pop 20 CR + WFT near any skinks. Warpgnaw as a distraction / objective grabber

Vs Seraphon	2000
Warpgnaw Verminlord	275
Thanquol	415
Warlock Engineer	105
Plague Priest	100
Plague Priest	100
Clanrats-20	100
Clanrats-20	100
Clanrats-20	100
Clanrats-20	100
Clanrats-20	100
Warp Grinder	65
Warpfire Thrower	70
Warpfire Thrower	70
Warp Lightning Cannon	150
Warp Lightning Cannon	150

Any experiences / advice welcome

Edited August 1, 2022 by Cosmicsheep

[W1tchhunter]

10 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

@W1tchhunter i was hoping this was a typo and would have been FAQ'd, but RAW implies that it's melee only when you take 3 Eshin heroes.

Well that's just not good enough

[Skreech Verminking]

47 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

@W1tchhunter i was hoping this was a typo and would have been FAQ'd, but RAW implies that it's melee only when you take 3 Eshin heroes.

Same, was I.

personally the faq still seems to be missing about as many pages of clarification as they have already put into the faq.

I’m probably going to ask my  question again.

at some point they will hopefully answer everything.

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Cosmicsheep I just so happened to play a FOUR SLAAN summoning list last week so I can give you a preview. Mortal wound from magic heavy seraphon lists is for real (not to mention shooting from those stupid salamanders. Unique thing about Kroak in particular is that he is allowed to machine gun the same multi-target MW spell. 

Edit: Missed that you are playing against Thunderlizards, most of the following was for Starborn. Oops.

When you approach the game assume they can start MW from across the board. If its a magic heavy seraphon list, kiss your spells goodbye. If you force magic into your list, don't bring synergy spells, or at least don't build a list relying on them (i.e. MMMWP). For this reason, shooting can be a great alternative to project your damage, however Jezzails aren't gonna cut it for the following reason.

Saurus guard: boy do they have a great bodyguard presence. They may only have a 4+ to pass wounds, but combined with the Starborn's 6+ ward and the favorable wording, good luck trying to one-shot a Slaan. If you have damage to dish, dish it out with the intention of killing foot troops. Which is a segway into my solution to all of this:

Disposable troops! We have so many worthless wounds available to us, just swarm the board with them. Seraphon currently love to bunker down with magic and shooting so why not give them worthless wounds to take. Clanrats will win you the game if you take them in big blobs of 60, give them the Bless prayer and always have CP's for rally and inspiring presence. Take control of the board, with bodies popping up everywhere early game and force them into having to play catch up. The only way they can is to summon and thus are forgoing casting more magic. 

All of this is to say, if they bring big dino's as well, focus fire them down first as they will engage your troops, killing many and preventing rally. In your current list I think you'll do just fine against big stompy dino's particularly with the cannons. Thanquol is a great magic dom now and can compete with Kroak if need be, just make sure to focus unbinds on damage spells only to help you save your clanrats. 

I'll let you know right now that Kroak and co. can wipe 20's of clanrats in a magic phase, especially with a 5+ horde thinner spell at hand. So finding ways to reinforce them in your list is a good idea. Side note: you do have Thanquol to dual rally in a turn which I didn't have in my game, in addition with the 10 bravery from the Warpseer. A great counterplay to the MW splashes everywhere. 

And lastly and most importantly, gang rush those stupid wizards, your centerpeices are vulnerable at the get go to MW spam. If they spend the first 2 rounds trying to kill them (which is likely), you're probably in a great position on the table at large. A weakness of seraphon is that they often don't have much chaff to start (at least for wizard builds) and only have those stupid Saurus, so all the more reason to make them feel fear. 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Riff_Raff_Rascal

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

So we did lose our Master Moulder charge bonus for the Masterclan trait, but as I understand it, Clanrats naturally add 2 to run rolls when they move. Since the first part about running in the battle trait remains open to modified rolls, I assume we can lean into that?

Still valuable if your fielding a bunch of run and shoot units I would think. 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Riff_Raff_Rascal

[Cosmicsheep]

5 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Disposable troops! We have so many worthless wounds available to us, just swarm the board with them. Seraphon currently love to bunker down with magic and shooting so why not give them worthless wounds to take. Clanrats will win you the game if you take them in big blobs of 60, give them the Bless prayer and always have CP's for rally and inspiring presence.

Yeah, that was kinda my thinking

5 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Thanquol is a great magic dom now and can compete with Kroak if need be, just make sure to focus unbinds on damage spells only to help you save your clanrats.

Again, i planned to sit Thanquol near a gnawhole for some +4 unbinding

5 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Side note: you do have Thanquol to dual rally in a turn which I didn't have in my game, in addition with the 10 bravery from the Warpseer. A great counterplay to the MW splashes everywhere.

Great idea... so 2 large blobs for rally

5 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

And lastly and most importantly, gang rush those stupid wizards, your centerpeices are vulnerable at the get go to MW spam

I'm also trying to work in Slynk and some gutter runners to focus fire on his buffing wizards turn 1

Thanks for the advice... appreciate you taking the time 👍

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

So we did lose our Master Moulder charge bonus for the Masterclan trait, but as I understand it, Clanrats naturally add 2 to run rolls when they move. Since the first part about running in the battle trait remains open to modified rolls, I assume we can lean into that?

Still valuable if your fielding a bunch of run and shoot units I would think. 

 

40 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

Yeah, that was kinda my thinking

Again, i planned to sit Thanquol near a gnawhole for some +4 unbinding

Great idea... so 2 large blobs for rally

I'm also trying to work in Slynk and some gutter runners to focus fire on his buffing wizards turn 1

Thanks for the advice... appreciate you taking the time 👍

Personally i believe that a doomwheel, is the perfect solution for all of that 

[Cosmicsheep]

@Skreech Verminking doomwheels are the answer to everything yes-yes ?

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

Hey hamsterwheel fans, get a load of this list:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaven
- Grand Strategy: Take What's Theirs
- Triumphs:

LEADERS
Verminlord Warpseer (370)
- General
- Universal Spell Lore: Levitate
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Arch-Warlock (155)
- Artefact: Vial of the Fulminator
- Universal Spell Lore: Ghost-mist
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Grey Seer (125)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy

UNITS
1 x Doomwheel (185)
1 x Doomwheel (185)
1 x Doomwheel (185)
20 x Clanrats (100)**
- Rusty Blade
- 1 x Standard Bearers
- 1 x Standard Bell Ringers
20 x Clanrats (100)**
- Rusty Blade
- 1 x Standard Bearers
- 1 x Standard Bell Ringers
20 x Clanrats (100)**
- Rusty Blade
- 1 x Standard Bearers
- 1 x Standard Bell Ringers
10 x Night Runners (90)***
10 x Night Runners (90)***
1 x Doom-Flayer (65)*
1 x Doom-Flayer (65)*
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warp-Grinder (65)*

ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
Soulsnare Shackles (50)

CORE BATTALIONS
*Bounty Hunters
**Expert Conquerors
***Warlord

ADDITIONAL ENHANCEMENTS
Spell

I played against shoot-Cast the other day with this list. I've lost to that style of play many times as doomwheels don't like it. However, the tides have turned. 

The Night Runners have been added from previous iterations for one reason: when I go second in round, its impossible to screen out 24" shooting. Now I more reliably can. The dum-dum Doom-Flayers are no longer a joke. I will tell you that Death Frenzied, Bounty Hunter mini Doomwheels eat battline Annihilators for lunch, can confirm. 

Even though it was more of a tax, the Warpseer's bravery 10 bubble kept all 3 units of clanrats alive (1 unit having only a single model left after 1 round), and then stumbled into round 3 with all 3 units alive and over half strength. Value. 

All of this paled in comparison to seeing the combo actually go off: Levitate and MMMWP on a single Doomwheel that was slapped in the behind with a Vial of the Fulminator. In range of 3 units, 1 of which was a hero, I did in total 9d3 triggers of MWs! Combat phase was an afterthought.  Its complicated but my opponent bunched up and wasn't expecting a flying unit suddenly. 

Nobody expects the flying Doomwheel.

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Riff_Raff_Rascal

[Rangeltoft]

5 minutes ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

All of this paled in comparison to seeing the combo actually go off: Levitate and MMMWP on a single Doomwheel that was slapped in the behind with a Vial of the Fulminator. In range of 3 units, 1 of which was a hero, I did in total 9d3 triggers of MWs! Combat phase was an afterthought.  Its complicated but my opponent bunched up and wasn't expecting a flying unit suddenly. 

Nobody expects the flying Doomwheel.

 

May i ask how? i might be misunderstanding the rule here, but wouldnt you only get 3 in the movement phase and then maybe 3 in the combat phase after piling in?

[W1tchhunter]

Does the doom flayer get its whirling death ability if it's hidden inside a unit that charges?

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Rangeltoft I'll try my best to explain this madness. Some things that happened off screen was I never rolled a 1 on the ability, so there's that. My opponent was aware of my ability to roll over chaff, tried to redeploy his hero away and rolled poorly. I also used all of my ranged attacks (which I overclocked successfully) on something else nearby. Here was the setup:

Movement Phase: 10" away from 2 MSU shooting units and a hero behind them about 5", I roll for movement and double it due to the artifact. I move 30". I run circles around all three of them and land outside of 3" of 2 of them. 3d3 MW.

Charge Phase: I roll a 6" charge (barely enough) and Tokyo drift over all 3 units. Very critically I declare with intent to place it equidistant of all 3 and less than an 1" (the base was big enough for all 3), thus allowing me to choose which "closest" model to pile into. My opponent measured it out for me, said it was good, and was morbidly curious what I was doing. 3d3 MW.

Combat Phase: I activate the doomwheel and declare I'm piling in <1" direction over the 2 shooting units and then travel back over to the hero <2" landing base to base contact with the model. It is important to play with intent in the pile-in step and declare that I "knick" the enemy units base by moving only 1mm or something small. 3d3 MW

To be fair, only the hero died completely and was staring at 4 enemy models left putting myself out of melee range after pile in (?). 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Riff_Raff_Rascal

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@W1tchhunter It does now. The recent FAQ tacked on the "treated as having charged" when it pops out. 

[Rangeltoft]

20 minutes ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@Rangeltoft I'll try my best to explain this madness. Some things that happened off screen was I never rolled a 1 on the ability, so there's that. My opponent was aware of my ability to roll over chaff, tried to redeploy his hero away and rolled poorly. I also used all of my ranged attacks (which I overclocked successfully) on something else nearby. Here was the setup:

Movement Phase: 10" away from 2 MSU shooting units and a hero behind them about 5", I roll for movement and double it due to the artifact. I move 30". I run circles around all three of them and land outside of 3" of 2 of them. 3d3 MW.

Charge Phase: I roll a 6" charge (barely enough) and Tokyo drift over all 3 units. Very critically I declare with intent to place it equidistant of all 3 and less than an 1" (the base was big enough for all 3), thus allowing me to choose which "closest" model to pile into. My opponent measured it out for me, said it was good, and was morbidly curious what I was doing. 3d3 MW.

Combat Phase: I activate the doomwheel and declare I'm piling in <1" direction over the 2 shooting units and then travel back over to the hero <2" landing base to base contact with the model. It is important to play with intent in the pile-in step and declare that I "knick" the enemy units base by moving only 1mm or something small. 3d3 MW

To be fair, only the hero died completely and was staring at 4 enemy models left putting myself out of melee range after pile in (?). 

 

forgot about the charge phase🙃

will have to try that out sometime

[Cosmicsheep]

1 hour ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Nobody expects the flying Doomwheel.

😂😂😂😂

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

The real kicker was I had the Masterclan trait active, there just wasn't anything else to activate first. Otherwise, it would have be another ability proc for mortals on the second pile-in

[Skreech Verminking]

2 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

The real kicker was I had the Masterclan trait active, there just wasn't anything else to activate first. Otherwise, it would have be another ability proc for mortals on the second pile-in

Nicely done mate

you do me proud 

[Skreech Verminking]

Congrats to everyone.

we have reached the 260th page in our small skaven chat.

 

[Ivo]

I have a q, reading masters of murder with 3 heroes is it:

Chosen hero: +2 to hit and wound melee, +1 to hit and wound shooting.

Other heroes:+1 to hit and wound melee.

Or is it:

Chosen hero +1 to hit and wound shooting and melee.

Other heroes:+1 to hit and wound melee.

Whats the correct interpretation?

 

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by Ivo

[Skreech Verminking]

7 minutes ago, Ivo said:

I have a q, reading masters of murder with 3 heroes is it:

 

Chosen hero: +2 to hit and wound melee, +1 to hit and wound shooting.

Other heroes:+1 to hit and wound melee.

 

Or is it:

Chosen hero +1 to hit and wound shooting and melee.

Other heroes:+1 to hit and wound melee.

 

Whats the correct interpretation?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So basically if you have less then 3 eshin hero, you can pick 1 enemy hero against which you get a buff of +1 to hit and wound for melee and shooting attacks.

as soon as you have 3 or more eshin heroes, you will apply this to all enemy unit, just with the wxception that at this point and moment it will only apply in melee.

theoretically yoy would be getting both bonuses of on that one chosen unit.

since we currently have the rule of never getting a better bonus to hit or wound then by 1, this wouldn’t really matter too much unless the enemy heroe has some kind of negative modifier on either roll.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Skreech Verminking

[Ivo]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

So basically if you have less then 3 eshin hero, you can pick 1 enemy hero against which you get a buff of +1 to hit and wound for melee and shooting attacks.

as soon as you have 3 or more eshin heroes, you will apply this to all enemy unit, just with the wxception that at this point and moment it will only apply in melee.

theoretically yoy would be getting both bonuses of on that one chosen unit.

since we currently have the rule of never getting a better bonus to hit or wound then by 1, this wouldn’t really matter too much unless the enemy heroe has some kind of negative modifier on either roll.

^Yeah its clamped at +1 but +2 for bonuses matters a lot against stuff like nighthaunt. Plus i don't want to lose the shooting bonus on my night runners :c pew pew

[Skreech Verminking]

On 8/5/2022 at 3:16 PM, Ivo said:

^Yeah its clamped at +1 but +2 for bonuses matters a lot against stuff like nighthaunt. Plus i don't want to lose the shooting bonus on my night runners :c pew pew

If you say so.

personally I actually thought that we were fishing for 6s anyways🤗

[W1tchhunter]

Any new skaven players from the UK? Where have you guys got your Gnawholes from?  They've been outta stock since the book dropped (baring in mind apparently noone wants to start skaven and it's not profitable to update the range /s) 

[Skreech Verminking]

5 minutes ago, W1tchhunter said:

Any new skaven players from the UK? Where have you guys got your Gnawholes from?  They've been outta stock since the book dropped (baring in mind apparently noone wants to start skaven and it's not profitable to update the range /s) 

I’ve got mine like when they were first released at the beginning of decond edition

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@W1tchhunter Highly recommend making some yourself.  I literally just made holes in the ground. 5" average diameter so I just made circles. Doesn't have to be glowing green anywhere. Just get messy with making terrain. Here's what I did as an example.

Spoiler

If I remember correctly the kit was super spindly and the scaffolding around the gnawhole was a nuisance. That was even before they added the impassable rule, people tried to put models on them. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by Riff_Raff_Rascal