gronnelg Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Boosting WLC - is it worth it? Statistically the WLC will kill itself in 2 turns, but churn out 4 rounds of MW in 2 rounds. Your also locking an engineer to a cannon, potentially out of range of other useful activities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 So after having seen so many people hard at work, looking for the perfect list or just something with which they could have a fun time using it, I thought why not join them and well dust of an old list I haven’t used to long ago. it contains: 3Screaming Bells:600p 1Clawlord:100p 3x40clanrats:800p 1x40Stormvermin:500p 3x1Warpfire thrower weapon teams:210p total:2010points. no I know 3screamong bells could be too much, or at least it was when we skavenplayers where left handload of dust of hopes for a battletome, but since the whole warscrolls was reworked of the screaming bell, we got some great debuffs/buffs damage outputs etc. just think what terrors 3of these screaming bells could unleash when they all roll a 8-9. All those hero’s in range which now have to fear the 3d3 mortal wounds which could possibly be done everyturn. or all of those witch Aelve in combat with you now, only learning later that they are hitting you on 5 or even 6s. and if somebody gets very lucky (very unlikely but still possible) 3new gigantic Verminlords called by the crack-calls of the doom-bringing warpstone-bells. even Skarbrand would learn to skitter-run from such mightiness. now if enybody has an idea what 3screaming bells could do, I would try and take Thanqoul with you, and play him against Nagash. just to show that old-dead-thing, how it feels to not beeing able to unbind a wizard who gets plus 5-6 to its casting rolls, just for that one moment when you actually roll a 7 for all your screaming bells, and he unable to unbind it. This Moment could be seen as a victory in the name of our god the great horned rat. even if we loose the game, the momenent when your foe makes that face and just noticed that the greatest wizard who can cast 9useless spells and has a infinite number of buffs, just can’t keep up with that warpstone sniffing crazed ****** of a rat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axter Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Guys, i thought about this for my game at 1000 pt against stormcats Grey seer on screaming belp (general) plague priest on furnace 40 monk 40 monk 20 monk What do you think? I was deciding between 2 furnace or 1 furnace and 1 grey seer, and i figures out that the bell was the perfect middle i was looking for. Hoping maybe on a 12 to summon a verminlord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Quick 1400 game tomorrow against a mate playing my Kharadron Overlords, only two battleline required. There is just too much that I want try. What sounds more fun to you? (it's a bit of a learning game) Verminus with some speed. (battalion won't do much but leave me a little short, helping the learning curve and giving me an extra artefact to try out) Spoiler Claw horde 180 Clawlord 100 Clawlord 100 20 StormVermin 280 40 Clanrats 200 40 Clanrats 200 2 x Doomwheel 320 1380 Five clans unite/infight (The things i'm most curious about from every clan, except Pestilence) Spoiler Clawleader 100 Bell 200 Master Moulder 100 Warplock 100 40 Clanrats 200 40 Clanrats 200 6 Rat Ogors 300 Ratling gun 80 10 Gutter Runners 120 1400 In a weird hunger game setting a Grey Seer, Clawlord, Master Moulder and Assassin try to outperform the others with one unit under there command. The loser will be dropped for the second game of the day, replaced by clan Skryre. Spoiler Bell 200 Clawlord 100 Master Moulder 100 Assassin 100 40 Clanrats 200 20 Stormvermin 280 4 Rat Ogors 200 20 Gutter Runners 200 1380 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 hours ago, gronnelg said: Boosting WLC - is it worth it? Statistically the WLC will kill itself in 2 turns, but churn out 4 rounds of MW in 2 rounds. Your also locking an engineer to a cannon, potentially out of range of other useful activities. If something really needs to die (like, say, a Terrorgheist or Zombie Dragon) then I would absolutely boost it T1\T2 to ensure that happens or you at least cripple the thing. Otherwise I tend to just wait it out until the WLC is already getting low or I anticipate it to be taken out in the proceeding turn. Same goes for overcharging Engineers\Arch-Warlocks. 32 minutes ago, Kramer said: Quick 1400 game tomorrow against a mate playing my Kharadron Overlords, only two battleline required. There is just too much that I want try. What sounds more fun to you? (it's a bit of a learning game) Verminus with some speed. (battalion won't do much but leave me a little short, helping the learning curve and giving me an extra artefact to try out) Reveal hidden contents Claw horde 180 Clawlord 100 Clawlord 100 20 StormVermin 280 40 Clanrats 200 40 Clanrats 200 2 x Doomwheel 320 1380 Five clans unite/infight (The things i'm most curious about from every clan, except Pestilence) Reveal hidden contents Clawleader 100 Bell 200 Master Moulder 100 Warplock 100 40 Clanrats 200 40 Clanrats 200 6 Rat Ogors 300 Ratling gun 80 10 Gutter Runners 120 1400 In a weird hunger game setting a Grey Seer, Clawlord, Master Moulder and Assassin try to outperform the others with one unit under there command. The loser will be dropped for the second game of the day, replaced by clan Skryre. Reveal hidden contents Bell 200 Clawlord 100 Master Moulder 100 Assassin 100 40 Clanrats 200 20 Stormvermin 280 4 Rat Ogors 200 20 Gutter Runners 200 1380 I'm a fan of #2 for a learning game as it has a little bit of everything from magic, CC potential and deepstriking. My lists have been very magic and shooting (well, cannons specifically) heavy lately so seeing more lists tone it back in favor of more combat is nice to see and may be easier for a newer player to deal with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishwaffle2232 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Hey guys, I've got a small multiplayer tournament coming up and was hoping to get some opinions on my list thoughts. Rules are two player with combined points of 1500. Ill be taking skaven and he will be running 70+ of the sheet ghosts. Missions are from core rules and generals handbook. 1 battleline is the only variation to the vanguard requirements. The two lists are in the pictures. Im leaning towards the list with stormfiends because i like their versatility in a smaller game plus they are tougher than Warp lightning cannons and weapons teams. However, think the damage potential is better in the second list. What do you guys think? Will either of these be decent or have I completely missed the mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevar Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 6 hours ago, Noit said: I really like you list but @Skreech Verminkingmade me notice that the lack of bodies can be a problem vs stronger battlelines,what about this: LeadersArch-Warlock (160)Warlock Bombardier (100)Warlock Bombardier (100)Verminlord Warpseer (260)Battleline40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty SpearUnits1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)War MachinesWarp Lightning Cannon (180)Warp Lightning Cannon (180)Warp Lightning Cannon (180)Warp Lightning Cannon (180)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 166 I understand and agree with the concern in bodies, as it has been a critique of a lot of my Nighthaunt lists where I go very 'elite' and low model count. I am just not sure the trade of Thanquol for +40 clanrats ends up worth it in the end. Maybe if I took a foot Grey Seer and expanded to like +80 more clanrats they would make a huge difference... but the way I see it, the clanrats are doomed. We do not have ways to return them or resummon them. They will take casualties by the bucket loads, and will have morale issues without me using CP to prevent it. Seems to me, the Clanrats have two purposes, screening and objective capture. Sending one 20 rat blob through a Gnawhole to threaten backfields is a strat I will likely use often, but I do not -want- my front line to survive contact with the enemy. If you embed a Warpfire Thrower team -inside- a clanrat unit, and make sure it is within 3" of the front rank... when battle commences you choose everything before the Warpfire Team. Hopefully, and likely, the clanrats will have been wiped out by the enemy unit, leaving a Warpfire team engaged in melee, and chosen last to fight. Pile in 3" to get as close and into as much of the enemy models as possible. When it switches to your turn... you have a Warpfire team inside 1" of the offending enemy unit, making that 8" range on the flame thrower normally hit every model in the unit. Rolling 60 dice vs. 30 Dark Aelf Witches is brutal, and will likely wipe the unit. Even with their 6+++ only a handful will survive, and those will likely flee from Battleshock. If they spend their CP to prevent it, then they do not have it for buffing the stragglers who Thanqoul can club to death. Vs. more stalwart battleline like Stormcast Liberators... Thanqoul's 4 dice per model still wipes a squad. More elite unit like Decimators or Paladins are prime targets for artillery fire, and more annoying units not prone to melee flame throwers like Prosecutors or Crypt Flayers are also not as clanrat mulchy as the melee threats Warpfire Throwers counter. Liberator equivalents are not going to mulch our rats-slaves as quickly or as effectively as things like skeletons/witches/ghouls/rats/etc. And the things that can really blender a unit of clanrats are also the things most countered by a warpfire thrower. 40 clanrats will get destroyed in one round of combat just as easily as 20 clanrats facing the sort of enemies I will be facing. Investing in those dead rats seems like a waste of points in my local meta. 30 Witch units with 4 attacks each rerolling 1's is the normal mainline engagement I am going to run into. On average they do 30.5 damage to clanrats... having 9 and a half clanrats left over if I am immune to battleshock doesn't seem worth the points investment, when the Warpfire Thrower is the guys who have to step up and clean house afterwards either way. I could be totally wrong, maybe I am missing something or I am living in dream land, I would love to hear more feedback on it. Plus... Thanqoul is way cooler than a Verminlord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitchparty Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 15 hours ago, Kraxriket said: About the doomwheel's new move characteristic, it says "you can reroll the 4d6 that determines its move characteristic. If you do and the roll contains any dice with an unmodified roll of 1 then your opponent carries out the normal move." Does this mean i can reroll any one or more dice or do i have to reroll them all? You would have to re-roll all four dice. 14 hours ago, Alris said: I have see no rule about line of sight in the starter rule but by the way here is a versus It comes into play for spell casting too, whenever it refers to casting something on a visible unit. If your Verminlord is significantly shorter than the official model you can gain an unfair advantage by being able to hide behind things that a standard Verminlord could not. Doing this deliberately is called modelling for advantage. I'm not saying you're doing this deliberately, but some opponents may take issue with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaeron Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said: 3x40clanrats:800p Unless you meant to say 4x40 you are shorting yourself 200 points. It looks more like the 800 is a typo, though, now that I actually look at the other numbers. Edited March 1, 2019 by Vaeron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tman3257 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 6 hours ago, Nevar said: I understand and agree with the concern in bodies, as it has been a critique of a lot of my Nighthaunt lists where I go very 'elite' and low model count. I am just not sure the trade of Thanquol for +40 clanrats ends up worth it in the end. Maybe if I took a foot Grey Seer and expanded to like +80 more clanrats they would make a huge difference... but the way I see it, the clanrats are doomed. We do not have ways to return them or resummon them. They will take casualties by the bucket loads, and will have morale issues without me using CP to prevent it. Seems to me, the Clanrats have two purposes, screening and objective capture. Sending one 20 rat blob through a Gnawhole to threaten backfields is a strat I will likely use often, but I do not -want- my front line to survive contact with the enemy. If you embed a Warpfire Thrower team -inside- a clanrat unit, and make sure it is within 3" of the front rank... when battle commences you choose everything before the Warpfire Team. Hopefully, and likely, the clanrats will have been wiped out by the enemy unit, leaving a Warpfire team engaged in melee, and chosen last to fight. Pile in 3" to get as close and into as much of the enemy models as possible. When it switches to your turn... you have a Warpfire team inside 1" of the offending enemy unit, making that 8" range on the flame thrower normally hit every model in the unit. Rolling 60 dice vs. 30 Dark Aelf Witches is brutal, and will likely wipe the unit. Even with their 6+++ only a handful will survive, and those will likely flee from Battleshock. If they spend their CP to prevent it, then they do not have it for buffing the stragglers who Thanqoul can club to death. Vs. more stalwart battleline like Stormcast Liberators... Thanqoul's 4 dice per model still wipes a squad. More elite unit like Decimators or Paladins are prime targets for artillery fire, and more annoying units not prone to melee flame throwers like Prosecutors or Crypt Flayers are also not as clanrat mulchy as the melee threats Warpfire Throwers counter. Liberator equivalents are not going to mulch our rats-slaves as quickly or as effectively as things like skeletons/witches/ghouls/rats/etc. And the things that can really blender a unit of clanrats are also the things most countered by a warpfire thrower. 40 clanrats will get destroyed in one round of combat just as easily as 20 clanrats facing the sort of enemies I will be facing. Investing in those dead rats seems like a waste of points in my local meta. 30 Witch units with 4 attacks each rerolling 1's is the normal mainline engagement I am going to run into. On average they do 30.5 damage to clanrats... having 9 and a half clanrats left over if I am immune to battleshock doesn't seem worth the points investment, when the Warpfire Thrower is the guys who have to step up and clean house afterwards either way. I could be totally wrong, maybe I am missing something or I am living in dream land, I would love to hear more feedback on it. Plus... Thanqoul is way cooler than a Verminlord. I wouldn't underestimate the importance of a 40 block clanrat unit. Sure they don't kill anything really, but having those 9 models left over engaging the opponent when you get double turned - thus leaving the opponent in melee combat and unable to charge your squishy back line is HUGE and will win games for you. Having your WFT in combat is a bad and risky idea. Certain units have long 2-3" melee ranges and just might be able to pick it off in combat, you'll likely get plenty of shots in by just walking outside of 3". Your example with witch elves is a bit inflated. It will be nasty for sure, you'll torch a lot of ladies but you're very very unlikely to kill the unit. 60 dice will average in 30 hits. A large majority of witch elf lists these days are running a 5++ instead of a 6++ and they all run the reroll prayer. This has them save ~16 assuming 5++ with reroll. So you toast about 14 which is decent but hardly wiping the unit. They'll also be immune to battle shock due to the hag queens - no CP required. If I had to fit Thanquol into that list I'd likely remove a warp lightning cannon and the Warpseer rather than clanrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 56 minutes ago, Vaeron said: Unless you meant to say 4x40 you are shorting yourself 200 points. It looks more like the 800 is a typo, though, now that I actually look at the other numbers. Nop sorry meant 600points. my minions just forgot to calculate it correctly. well he won’t be doing it again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kaven5lave Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 Any thoughts on my battleline for this list? 30 Acolytes with MMWP would be filthy but worried about only 2x3 Fiends as the rest of my bodies. I could ditch the Pendulum and take 2x15 Acolytes or a 20 and a 10 and a unit of 6 Fiends instead to get benefit of MMWP that way instead? Allegiance: SkaventideGrey Seer (120)- General- Trait: Master of Magic - Artefact: Suspicious Stone - Lore of Ruin: SkitterleapArch-Warlock (160)- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!Warlock Bombardier (100)- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: Warp Lightning ShieldWarlock Engineer (100)- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!30 x Skryre Acolytes (320)3 x Stormfiends (260)3 x Stormfiends (260)Warp Lightning Cannon (180)Warp Lightning Cannon (180)Warp Lightning Cannon (180)Aethervoid Pendulum (40)Warp Lightning Vortex (100)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 111 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alris Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 8 hours ago, bitchparty said: You would have to re-roll all four dice. It comes into play for spell casting too, whenever it refers to casting something on a visible unit. If your Verminlord is significantly shorter than the official model you can gain an unfair advantage by being able to hide behind things that a standard Verminlord could not. Doing this deliberately is called modelling for advantage. I'm not saying you're doing this deliberately, but some opponents may take issue with it. Ok, thanks for the info. I don't think i could elevate my verminlord anymore so i would mainly keep him for friendly game. Do not know why GW doesn t use simple rule as warmachine for line of sight ie a level for each size of base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Line of sight has always been one of the most fuzzy silly difficult to rule elements of the game. True line of sight is even more fuzzy because, lets face it, no model is made based on its game performance; some have large sweeping arms and banners whilst others are small and almost hidden away and neither has anything to do with model balance and purely the lore, fluff and sculptors design (tempered against material and casting considerations). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) Tonight I´ve my first game with my Rats against DoK. One question I´m not sure how to handle is about the Skyre warpstone sprarks when used to buff missile damage. In your shooting phase, pick 1 friendly CLANS SKRYRE HERO. Then pick up to 3 different friendly CLANS SKRYRE units that are wholly within 13" of that HERO. You can add 1 to the Damage characteristic of missile weapons used by those units until the end of that phase How does that work with a WLC or Warpfire Thrower? Is it 2 mortals wounds per dice that roll 4+? Doomwheel is D3+1, correct? Edited March 1, 2019 by Ashes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMMachine Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Ashes said: Tonight I´ve my first game with my Rats against DoK. One question I´m not sure how to handle is about the Skyre warpstone sprarks when used to buff missile damage. In your shooting phase, pick 1 friendly CLANS SKRYRE HERO. Then pick up to 3 different friendly CLANS SKRYRE units that are wholly within 13" of that HERO. You can add 1 to the Damage characteristic of missile weapons used by those units until the end of that phase How does that work with a WLC or Warpfire Thrower? Is it 2 mortals wounds per dice that roll 4+? Doomwheel is D3+1, correct? You need a missile weapon that has a Damage Characteristic (the Value "Damage", behind rend). The Ability doesn't work with Mortal Wounds. Edited March 1, 2019 by EMMachine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Yep as @EMMachine says you need to have a damage stat to add the bonus to damage too. If the weapon has no damage stat itself then it can't be added to anything and thus would do nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treeclimber Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 4 hours ago, Alris said: Ok, thanks for the info. I don't think i could elevate my verminlord anymore so i would mainly keep him for friendly game. Do not know why GW doesn t use simple rule as warmachine for line of sight ie a level for each size of base. I too think your conversion look fine. At least at my local GW store they care more about how genuine the conversion feel - making something creative is more important than making something that perfectly mimics the official models (to a degree ofcause). In that setting I’ve not had any problems playing with my own verminlord conversion: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) So new FAQ and Errata are up! Though the GW links don't appear to have updated but the stuff is there and accessible by magical powers of cunning skaven prowess! Errata : https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/age_of_sigmar_skaven_errata_en.pdf Designers Commentary : https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/age_of_sigmar_skaven_designers_commentary_en.pdf @Kirjava13 I gots bad news "Q: Can Skaven units be taken as allies for a Skaventide army? A: No." Which is probably the biggest walk away. They also confirm that allies do NOT count toward the army composition rules so you can take nurgle models with your pure pestilens army Edited March 1, 2019 by Overread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirjava13 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 The restriction to 'all the units must be [CLAN]' only applies to the Skaventide army, not to allies, which means Pestilens armies can take Nurgle allies and still have Plague Monks as Battleline. But they might as well have just stated that, given that Nurgle are the only possible ally choice, and only with a Pestilens general... I am going to continue to assume that Skaven can actually ally with themselves, as not to do so is nonsensical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
States Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 So.. warpstone tokens + staff of the horned rat + gnawhole won't work together for Thanquol. That is a shame. Rather use the +3 casting than risk with warpstone tokens I feel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirjava13 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Yeah, save his addiction for later in the game when he will probably be wounded and away from a Gnawhole, so his natural casting bonus won't be as high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaeron Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) On 2/28/2019 at 11:51 AM, gronnelg said: Boosting WLC - is it worth it? Statistically the WLC will kill itself in 2 turns, but churn out 4 rounds of MW in 2 rounds. Your also locking an engineer to a cannon, potentially out of range of other useful activities. I guess you could give the warlock a Lens of Refraction to protect the cannon (or himself) from d3 MW or round, but of course that sacrifices a skaventide artifact. Edit: brainfart. the LoR only works on spells, of course. Edited March 4, 2019 by Vaeron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracan Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Wait what... i can have a great unclean one in my pestilens army but not clan rats...???... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kirjava13 said: The restriction to 'all the units must be [CLAN]' only applies to the Skaventide army, not to allies, which means Pestilens armies can take Nurgle allies and still have Plague Monks as Battleline. But they might as well have just stated that, given that Nurgle are the only possible ally choice, and only with a Pestilens general... I am going to continue to assume that Skaven can actually ally with themselves, as not to do so is nonsensical. Well if you’re going for raw, you could easily just say that they only mentioned that skaven cannot be allied with Skaventide armies (Remember that there are still the skavenslaves and the chieftain with that keyword around), not that Skaventide unit’s can’t be taken in a Skaventide army as allies. so technically in a tournament you should be able to use them. edit: until they faq it again Edited March 1, 2019 by Skreech Verminking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.