AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Gwendar]

@Russrmc Wow, those look perfect. I normally play at GW stores so I couldn't really use them but I may convert up a few for flgs use whenever you decide to make these available. Really great stuff.

[Skavelynn]

@Verminlord Looks really cool, a bit silly but also very skaven-y. I love it! 😄 Reminds me of the wheelchair enemies in Bloodborne. Make sure to update us when it's painted 

5 hours ago, Overread said:

Also fellow rats don't forget that there's some legacy models on offer from GW next week

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/02/24/made-to-order-legends-of-the-skaven/

I'm already thinking on getting the Grey Seer and possibly Ikit Claw. 

I like the old Thanquol and Boneripper, the others not so much. I'll buy the pair if the price is decent. I'll probably use boneripper in my rat ogre pack, and thanquol as a grey seer or master moulder.

[Flood]

Question. Does anyone see any value in the plague claw catapult? Is it ever worthwhile to take over a warp lightning cannon? 

[Baron Wastelands]

1 hour ago, Flood said:

Question. Does anyone see any value in the plague claw catapult? Is it ever worthwhile to take over a warp lightning cannon? 

In a pestilens list, absolutely. 

In a mixed skaven list, they are about equally effective against hordes on average (~4wounds with -2 rend, -1 battleshock so potentially 1 more runner vs ~3.5 mortal wounds) though the wlc is better if you have an engineer to overcharge it (~7 mortal wounds) and straight better against units of less than 10. 

[Flood]

5 minutes ago, Baron Wastelands said:

In a pestilens list, absolutely. 

In a mixed skaven list, they are about equally effective against hordes on average (~4wounds with -2 rend, -1 battleshock so potentially 1 more runner vs ~3.5 mortal wounds) though the wlc is better if you have an engineer to overcharge it (~7 mortal wounds) and straight better against units of less than 10. 

Ah that makes sense. I bought 2 kits - I built one as a WLC and the other as a PCC. Not a day goes by that I don't regret not making 2x WLC. I guess I wonder if I can justify bringing 1 WLC and 1 PCC, or if I should try to convert the PCC into a WLC (which would be hard for me to do I think - it's already all painted up with monks as crew). 

Edited February 25, 2019 by Flood

[Baron Wastelands]

2 minutes ago, Flood said:

Ah that makes sense. I bought 2 kits - I built one as a WLC and the other as a PCC. Not a day goes by that I don't regret making 2x WLC. I guess I wonder if I can justify bringing 1 WLC and 1 PCC, or if I should try to convert the PCC into a WLC (which would be hard for me to do I think - it's already all painted up with monks as crew). 

I’d take them both - the plaguclaw also has slightly longer range, is slightly cheaper, and doesn’t blow itself up over time. So against hordes in particular, it’s not bad. Try them before you hack one apart 😊

[Fleabag]

Hello folks! 

I'm quite a new player and tried to source the answer for this, but couldn't find it. Can Clan Rats be battleline for any Clan? Or is it only 'Skaventide' and Verminus? 

Is my understanding that you can use any combination of Skaven models now, correct?

Thanks!

[treeclimber]

14 minutes ago, Fleabag said:

Hello folks! 

I'm quite a new player and tried to source the answer for this, but couldn't find it. Can Clan Rats be battleline for any Clan? Or is it only 'Skaventide' and Verminus? 

Is my understanding that you can use any combination of Skaven models now, correct?

Thanks!

Clanrats are battleline for all of chaos. If you take a Skaventide army, both clanrats and stormvermin are battleline. If you want to take a pure Skryre army, for example, you cannot use clanrats as batteline and must instead use Stormfiends or Acolytes. However it is worth noting that the ONLY difference between a Skaventide army and a pure clan one, is your battleline - even in a mixed skaventide army you can use say Skryre battletraits, as it depends on what heroes you take. If you take a Skrye, Moulder and Masterclan hero you can use all their battletraits at the same time, as long as all units in your army has the "Skaventide" keyword! 

 

I hope this cleared things up

[Ashes]

Sorry if this came up already, but I´ve a question on Gnawholes: The rule says you can use 1 Gnawhole at the start of your mvmt phase. Does that mean I can only use one hole per turn or given I´ve heroes and units at different holes that I can use each hole once per turn?

[Vaeron]

12 minutes ago, Ashes said:

Sorry if this came up already, but I´ve a question on Gnawholes: The rule says you can use 1 Gnawhole at the start of your mvmt phase. Does that mean I can only use one hole per turn or given I´ve heroes and units at different holes that I can use each hole once per turn?

It's just one per turn, which bummed me out. Theres a battle plan in the book which allows you to use more than one per turn as a special ability, which is the only reason I'm sure that, normally, it's only once.

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Vaeron said:

It's just one per turn, which bummed me out. Theres a battle plan in the book which allows you to use more than one per turn as a special ability, which is the only reason I'm sure that, normally, it's only once.

Or the limitation of placing It within 8” of the board edge. Both is a bit harsh indeed. But it does need 1 of those limitations. 

But still a bummer. 

[Feanor]

Hi guys I'm and old time skaven player and with the new battletome I'm in the list build mood

What do you think about this list? 

The grey seer will have the skavenbrew and the +1casting and unbinding 

The main strategy is to buff the hell out of a monk unit (8attck per model reroll to hit and wound with all the prayers artifacts and CA) destroy everything is in his way meanwhile the catapults kills other targets 

Other suggestion for list building? I have every model of the range and I'm ready to unleash a vermintide upon my enemies yes-yes

Pestilens2k.pdf

[Ashes]

Still relative new in AoS and looking forward to my first match with Skaven. More of a general question: 

With 25mm bases Clanrats that are in base to base contact between themself and enemy unit can they attack with 2nd row models, too?

Same for Stormvermin, with their 2" range. This allows them to attack from the third row? 

[kenshin620]

1 minute ago, Ashes said:

Still relative new in AoS and looking forward to my first match with Skaven. More of a general question: 

With 25mm bases Clanrats that are in base to base contact between themself and enemy unit can they attack with 2nd row models, too?

Same for Stormvermin, with their 2" range. This allows them to attack from the third row? 

As long as the enemy is in range of their weapons, they can attack. And since each 1" roughly is 25mm (.4 more mm), then yes the general idea is base contact with your pal in front means you can attack.

 

Of course the enemy could be 0.5" away but still in combat, so that could also matter.

 

 

I still think weapon ranges and base sizes is a big ol ball of nonsense, especially with "people look better on 32mm bases" idea. So many "horde" units get put on 32mm bases...with 1" weapons. Like Gors or Greenskin Orruks or Bloodreavers.....

[Mayple]

1 hour ago, Feanor said:

Hi guys I'm and old time skaven player and with the new battletome I'm in the list build mood

What do you think about this list? 

The grey seer will have the skavenbrew and the +1casting and unbinding 

The main strategy is to buff the hell out of a monk unit (8attck per model reroll to hit and wound with all the prayers artifacts and CA) destroy everything is in his way meanwhile the catapults kills other targets 

Other suggestion for list building? I have every model of the range and I'm ready to unleash a vermintide upon my enemies yes-yes

Pestilens2k.pdf

Mind that planning around the extra attack mechanic with an all eggs in one basket sort of mindset will not work well with Skaven. Their main strength lies in unit flexibility, board controll, and excess of viable units leading to a "oh you killed a whole unit, but I had a second wave" playstyle as opposed to a not-quite-orks all or nothing mini-waagh.

 

Which translates to: don't plan around having 8 attacks. Assume 3, hope for 4, pray for 6, avoid 8

[Nevar]

I am looking to make a 'gunline' Skaven army, what do people this is better, the Plague Claw or Warplighting cannons?  A mix of both?

Likewise, stormfiends can be built all pew pew, but what are people's experience with globe launchers?  Ratling guns and warpfire projectors are awesome, but globe launchers seem odd to me.

[NemoVonUtopia]

7 minutes ago, Nevar said:

I am looking to make a 'gunline' Skaven army, what do people this is better, the Plague Claw or Warplighting cannons?  A mix of both?

Likewise, stormfiends can be built all pew pew, but what are people's experience with globe launchers?  Ratling guns and warpfire projectors are awesome, but globe launchers seem odd to me.

I think that the choice of plague claw and warp lightning depends on what you need from them. Plague claws are longer range and dont need line of sight so you will be able to fire sooner and more consistently but it is more dependent on luck because there is more rolling. Since warp lightning doesnt need to roll to hit and does mortal wounds it's great for sniping heros that get within range.

For stormfeinds, I choose windlaunchers over warpfire for a ranged unit because I dont want them to take damage in combat even though the third model will useless at range.

[Skavelynn]

1 hour ago, Mayple said:

Mind that planning around the extra attack mechanic with an all eggs in one basket sort of mindset will not work well with Skaven. Their main strength lies in unit flexibility, board controll, and excess of viable units leading to a "oh you killed a whole unit, but I had a second wave" playstyle as opposed to a not-quite-orks all or nothing mini-waagh.

 

Which translates to: don't plan around having 8 attacks. Assume 3, hope for 4, pray for 6, avoid 8

Do keep in mind it is Clan Pestilens, the general playstyle is mostly about overwhelming your opponent with bodies and attacks, they are pretty limited in what they can take 😅. That being said, I do think you shouldn’t stack that many attack buffs and rely on just one unit of 40, it would be overkill and that unit will be heavily focused down. I think managing those extra attacks properly between units of monks at the right moment is key. I personally feel like the list doesn’t have enough plague monks, instead of congregation of filth I’d take more monks. You’re going to want a third or fourth blob for more bodies, damage and to use as backup instead of making just one or two units slightly more survivable @Feanor

[Mayple]

5 minutes ago, Skavelynn said:

Do keep in mind it is Clan Pestilens, the general playstyle is mostly about overwhelming your opponent with bodies and attacks, they are pretty limited in what they can take 😅. That being said, I do think you shouldn’t stack that many attack buffs and rely on just one unit of 40, it would be overkill and that unit will be heavily focused down. I think managing those extra attacks properly between units of monks at the right moment is key. I personally feel like the list doesn’t have enough plague monks, instead of congregation of filth I’d take more monks. You’re going to want a third or fourth blob for more bodies, damage and to use as backup instead of making just one or two units slightly more survivable @Feanor

Yeah, that's what I said We are in agreement.

I also agree with the rest of what you're saying. Hard to go wrong with more plague monks

[Nevar]

23 minutes ago, NemoVonUtopia said:

I think that the choice of plague claw and warp lightning depends on what you need from them. Plague claws are longer range and dont need line of sight so you will be able to fire sooner and more consistently but it is more dependent on luck because there is more rolling. Since warp lightning doesnt need to roll to hit and does mortal wounds it's great for sniping heros that get within range.

For stormfeinds, I choose windlaunchers over warpfire for a ranged unit because I dont want them to take damage in combat even though the third model will useless at range.

I should have given a bit more context, my main opponents will be Daughter of Khaine and Flesh Eater Courts.  So I will eventually have hordes of witches or ghouls among my lines, and warpfire throwers on one of the Stormfiends will make all the difference in the late game I feel.  I suppose it would be better to throw in some warpfire weapon teams instead and get globe launchers for early/mid game.

That said, sniping a Blood Cauldron or Archregent in the openning turns of the game can be a game changer, so maybe x4 Warp cannons are the best bet.  I am partial to Jezzails as well.

[Kirjava13]

Just as an aside, when putting wounds on Stormfiends, don't do what I have done in two consecutive games now and do it in such a way so that when you take the guy off your unit is out of coherency and you lose an extra swole boi because you didn't think about things.

[Mayple]

1 minute ago, Kirjava13 said:

Just as an aside, when putting wounds on Stormfiends, don't do what I have done in two consecutive games now and do it in such a way so that when you take the guy off your unit is out of coherency and you lose an extra swole boi because you didn't think about things.

Ouch! Feels bad!  

Edited February 25, 2019 by Mayple

[Zuriaxis]

Quick question: Stormfiends or 3x Ratling guns?

[5kaven5lave]

Just thought I’d share just in case anyone else is stumping up the cash for Acolytes from the webstore - mine came with 32mm bases and I was told by a GW rep that this was correct and that the website’s listing of 25mm was wrong and they’d fix it. Expect a change to the base size in the FAQ then? Just a heads up for everyone converting and kitbashing. 

[Baron Wastelands]

22 minutes ago, Zuriaxis said:

Quick question: Stormfiends or 3x Ratling guns?

Don’t think there’s a quick answer! 

On the one hand, 3 ratling s guns, buffed by sparks, and a warlock/arch-warlock with overseer of destruction, all overcharging (more more warplead) will do about 30 wounds -1 rend on average. So there’s that. However, they will also die off quickly doing it, and anyway can be felled by a stiff breeze, which they will be given that they need to get within 12” to do it.

Stormfiends on the other hand can’t specialise any more, but even one ratling gun fiend can, properly buffed, still kicks out an average of 13 wounds, while a windlauncher can benefit from the same buffs for 4-5 rend -3 wounds, and you get a whole other combat stormfiend who can take 7 wounds (with a 4+ save - plus another 5 on one of the remaining two, for 12 total ablative wounds8) before affecting the ranged offensive capability of the unit. 

So it’s comparing apples with carrots, really. Personally, a unit of 6 stormfiends with 2 ratlings, 2 windlaunchers and 2 shock gauntlets, while expensive, is one of my big wins of this book. Buffed by the right general, they are lethal to hordes and heroes alike.