AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Garrac]

5 hours ago, gronnelg said:

To my knowledge there are no known plans unfortunately. Skaven are pretty awesome as it is though. Although anything new or updated would certainly be welcome.

Oh  I like my skaven minis, but, well, I've been liking them for 13 years now XD Seeing the craziness of modern aos models, I would really like skaven getting that mad love too.  

[DocKeule]

On the other hand there is a chance we might lose more units than will be added.

All weapon teams, the acolytes, arch warlock, master moulder, gutter runners, plague censer bearers and  warlock engineer that are sold new are still metal models. Then there are the solo plague priest, doom flayer and deathmaster that are finecast resin models. I wonder what will happen to those units once the remainders are sold. Thanquol und the hellpit abomination are already sold out in the online shop. 

We have probably the largest roster in the game right now but I don't really see them doing plastic reprints of all these models. 

[Jigrej]

Hey ! i'm totaly new to wargames. I did discover all the warhammer fantasy lore since total war warhammer 1. I'm a big fan of skaven and decided to build an army.

I have few questions. I had the chance of purchasing a " Battle force Skaven Corupting war swarm" in a warhammer store. It includes 20 clanrats, a plague catapults that in built in canon, a verminlord warp seer, a screaming bell 20 plague monks and a plague priest. I also bought a warcry skaven wich includes 20 clanrats and a pack of 2 rats ogres, 3 pack masters and 6 giants rats .

My questions are :   

 1. i decided to build my 40 clanrats in spears mode. do i have to bring the both banner and musicians ( from the 2x20) or a single banner and musicians is enough? 
  2. Can i build the 2 claw leaders in my 40 clanrats ? and can i put on them the sword made for them orr i also have to give the a spear ? if i can't have 2 clawleaders in the 40 clanrats, how do i build the one who should not be a claw leaders ? do i just put off the thing on his helmet

   3.  A musician or a banner model does still have an attack as if they were spearrs ? or do they loose this ability due to the fact that they don't wear a weapon ?
 

I new to this gmae, i started reading rules and battletome but some things are not obvious to me. And all my appologies for this wobbly english. 
Thanks for your help !
 

 

[DocKeule]

Welcome to the rat pack 🐭

1. You will need two battleline units for 1000 point games and three for 2000 points. Your online unit type that counts as battleline are the clanrats (stormvermin also work in mixed lists) everything else can only take that role in mono-clan-armies. So I would build both banners and musicians to run them as two blocks of 20 for the beginning. (And even in a 40-rat-unit a second banner or musician can come in handy when you have to pull casualties).

2. Again for running them as two units I would build them both as claw leaders (any unit can only have one though) and paint them a little different so you can chose one when you run them as a big unit later.

3. Yes, they attack as if they have the same weapons as the rest of the unit,

[Jigrej]

Thank you ! it did help me a lot !

I have some other questions that came to me this night x).

1. first does the plague monks with banner and musicians keeps their attacks as clanrats do ? is it the case for all armies ? and do they also keep the foetid blades  bonus if the rest is wearing foetid blades ?

2. what do you think is the best to put on my plague monks, after reading i think i would go for the bale-chimes and the contagion banner. Is it good ? btw i'm trying to build a master clan army

3. and last what are the rules to build a master clan army can i put any "Skaven" key word in my list ? i understood that my battle line has to be clanrats, but can i still put some plague monks even not as battle line ? some stormfiends  etc ?

Thannk you a lot for your help !

[DocKeule]

1. Yes that is with all armies and units. The banners and stuff are an additional bonus. The weapon profiles still apply.

2. The plague monks warscolls has been simplyfied. Now the one in the app is the legal one and they only have one type of banner and one other function (I think it is the gong). 

2a. Masterclan has only three models: grey seer, grey seer on screaming bell and Thanquol. So you can't really field an all-masterclan-army.

3. With the skaventide allegiance clanrats and stormvermin are always battleline. The other clans have some units that can assume that role but only if the whole armie (appart from the general that can be masterclan) belongs to that clan. So if you wanted to use plague monks as battleline every unit (apart from a possible masterclan general) has to be from clan pestilens.
Other than that you can mix the clans however you like once you fulfilled your battleline obligations.  Then you only have to watch the caps on heroes, artillery and behemoth. 

[Jigrej]

ok ty !

wich one is the legal warscroll for plague monks ? the one in the battletome or is ther a other more recent warscroll for them ?

 

[DocKeule]

The one in the app is the current one. The one in the GW shop is the updated one as well.

[Jigrej]

ok cool, so i just choose one of the 2 banners and same for musicians ? eihter gong or bale chimes
 But as it is 1 musicians and 1 banner for 10 model do i still make 2 banners and 2 musicians for my 20 plague monks ? is it better to make 2 units of 10 instead of 1 of 20 to get 2 "Bringer of the words " ?

 

[DocKeule]

Depends on if you want to build more pestilens or not. A well buffed block of 40 monks has a better output that four smaller units even with the bringer words (plus they don't break as fast in battleshock). If you have no plans to go in that direction two units of ten are probably better that one unit of twenty.

[Jigrej]

yeah i'm not a huge fan of clan pestilent, i prefer skryre/master clan or even verminus so i probably just do a 2x10

Thanks for all your advices

 

[Skreech Verminking]

On 2/16/2021 at 6:47 PM, Le Chef said:

Anything new would definitely be awesome but I really also do like the army as it is now. Although struggling a bit with the current meta, it's a very versatile army that gives you plenty of cool options for different types of opponents 

Yeah, they are extremely versatile.

the only Time I really struggle with the skaven, is when I play against seraphons, which sadly have basically everything the skaven have just cheaper and with a higher damage output

On 2/16/2021 at 8:59 PM, DocKeule said:

On the other hand there is a chance we might lose more units than will be added.

All weapon teams, the acolytes, arch warlock, master moulder, gutter runners, plague censer bearers and  warlock engineer that are sold new are still metal models. Then there are the solo plague priest, doom flayer and deathmaster that are finecast resin models. I wonder what will happen to those units once the remainders are sold. Thanquol und the hellpit abomination are already sold out in the online shop. 

We have probably the largest roster in the game right now but I don't really see them doing plastic reprints of all these models. 

I doubt it.

If Gw threw out. Basically every unit that isn’t great looking plastic, skaven would be left with almost nothing

at that point they’d have to discontinue the whole range, and believe me, that won’t be great for sales.

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[DocKeule]

I think that's a little exaggerated. Apart from the older metal- and resin-models maybe the clanrats could use a facelift to fit the beefier AoS design. Most of the other stuff is 7th edition and still looks pretty up to date. Some of the weapon-teams are also not that old but the metal  warpfire thrower, jezzail, engineer, assasin and ratling-gun and so on are 6th edition and it shows (unless they re-do the blood island models where available).

They already cut the poisoned-wind mortar with the last book and I am kind of expecting them to kick some more out. Apart from the stormcasts we probably have the biggest roster of any single factions (not counting chaos undivided and death as a meta-faction).Most new armies don't have half as much units (yet at least). 

And I don't see a problem with some units being discontinued if there was new stuff coming. 🤷‍♂️

[Skreech Verminking]

11 hours ago, DocKeule said:

I think that's a little exaggerated. Apart from the older metal- and resin-models maybe the clanrats could use a facelift to fit the beefier AoS design. Most of the other stuff is 7th edition and still looks pretty up to date. Some of the weapon-teams are also not that old but the metal  warpfire thrower, jezzail, engineer, assasin and ratling-gun and so on are 6th edition and it shows (unless they re-do the blood island models where available).

They already cut the poisoned-wind mortar with the last book and I am kind of expecting them to kick some more out. Apart from the stormcasts we probably have the biggest roster of any single factions (not counting chaos undivided and death as a meta-faction).Most new armies don't have half as much units (yet at least). 

And I don't see a problem with some units being discontinued if there was new stuff coming. 🤷‍♂️

Yeah there might be a chance that a few things would get discontinued but, if gw, would basically remove everything but clanrats, Stormvermins, clawlord, Grey seer, screaming bell, Verminlords, hell pit, plague furnace, Stormfiends, plague claw catapult, Warplightning cannon, Doomwheel, Stormfiends and warlock bombardier, not much would be left.

Eshin wouldn’t exist anymore, pestilence and moulder would be unplayable, the skaven most iconic Weapon teams gone and skryre would only be like a third of the fun it once was.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[Lord Krungharr]

I would almost fear that Beasts of Chaos would get the nix before Skaven; the BoC seems much less IP secure than the Clans. 

Verminlords, Screaming Bell/Plague Furnace, Hell Pit Abomination, Plague Monks, Spells, Gnawholes, Thanquol.....all excellent and reasonably modern styled kits.  Just lots of the old HQs (and they just gave us the Warlock Bombadier, so that's something) and weapon teams that need updating. 

Moulder I could see getting the axe, Eshin too, though a Night Runner/Gutter Runner sprue would be so easy to do, or just redo a Clanrat Sprue to have those upgrades and arms, but probably too much to hope for.   I hope they preserve all the Clans though, makes the Skaven so much more interesting.

If they do a new Skaven Tome, I hope the battleline situation cleans up.  It should just be the Clans specific ones are battleline if the general is that Clan.  Simple, easy, flexible.  Or have simple Clan subfactions (Tzeentch has Eternal Conflaguration to make Flamers battleline, or the one with Screamers, etc) which would allow for more interClan cooperation but limit the utility of doing so.

Weapon Teams could all be 1 kit to build any of them.  Make them in units of 3.  Each team already has 2 ratties anyways.  

And Doomflayers should do 2D6 hits at rend-2 and/or 2 dmg per hit on the charge, with double the hits from Warlock supercharging, then they should explode and shower debris all over the place.  And be plastic.  They could be 200/unit of 3 and have a 4+ armor and be on par with a 200 points Skullcracker from Legion of Azgorh.  

 

[DocKeule]

I don't see Moulder getting nixed. Rat ogers and the abomination are iconic models and I am pretty sure they will be around in some form. But for example packmaster and master moulder, warlock engineer, warlock bombardier and arch warlock...there are some redundancies that could be approached in different ways or corse. We could get some named characters for the great clans again. I think that would provide much more colour to the current  lore.

As far as a wishlist goes...I think skaven need a close combat hammer. In shooting they are doing OK with stormfiends (usually my MVPs), ratling guns, warpfire thrower, warplightning cannon and plagueclaw.  But in melee we are mostly limted to shielding our missile weapons and mages until our meatshield crumble. I think we need some units that really do some damage in close combat even against newer or recently updated  armies.

I have played a real fun online tournament game this week against ogors. The scenario was "Places of arcane power" so only heroes could score while they were within 3" of the objetive. My list was pretty weak but I had four heroes and my opponent only had two. So I knew pretty much my only chance would be to snipe his heroes and try to score as early as possible until he had a chance to kill my characters.
Cheeses it worked. I killed both his heroes turn two before he could score and I won the game but he still managed to kill over three quarters of my army without much I could do about that. I made some mistakes and could have kept my stormfiends alive a little longer but if I hadn't killed his characters I wouldn't have had a chance in war war of attrition because I took much more damage than I was able to dish out.

Any way I have decided not to buy anything new until a new book is released. My army is pretty complete for what I like from the current roster any way and I would not like to fill gaps now and then find the units have been kicked to the curb few month later. And I would really apprecuhiate some new stuff. 

[Lord Krungharr]

Seems like rat ogres are pretty solid in melee, and Stormfiends can be with the warpgrinder fists and doomflayers; buffed up Plague Monks and Stormvermin maybe?  

I am also done with buying new stuff for a long while til new books.  I have pretty much everything I could want for Skryre (except maybe a third Doomwheel).  Just have to kitbash my 2 ratling gun teams and some acolyte backpacks and then I'll be ready to rock.  Gotta figure out the best way to use the Doomwheels, they'll be in a Whyrlblade Threshik.  Maybe with a Vigordust Injector to make one go faster per turn?  Almost like using each as a shooting attack with a shooting attack?  Skaven in general seems to be a thinking rat's army more than point and click like Mawtribes monster mash which I'm used to using.

[DocKeule]

With stormfiends your money is in the shooting. Equipping one with grinders would mean one less wit ratling cannons. The doomflayer fists do OK but the output is not overwhelming. Rat ogres aren't bad as well but they have about the same output as two namarti thralls (I play Idoneth also) at twice the pointcost. Plague monks still can generate a lot of attacks but they lost a lot of their mortal wounds potencial and the chance to have rend with the new warscroll, I really wish they would turn that back. 

The Vigordust Injector only gives you one extra inch on the charge, not the normal move. I have not used my doomwheel yet though. I will try and incorporate that later this year. 

[Skreech Verminking]

3 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Seems like rat ogres are pretty solid in melee, and Stormfiends can be with the warpgrinder fists and doomflayers; buffed up Plague Monks and Stormvermin maybe?  

I am also done with buying new stuff for a long while til new books.  I have pretty much everything I could want for Skryre (except maybe a third Doomwheel).  Just have to kitbash my 2 ratling gun teams and some acolyte backpacks and then I'll be ready to rock.  Gotta figure out the best way to use the Doomwheels, they'll be in a Whyrlblade Threshik.  Maybe with a Vigordust Injector to make one go faster per turn?  Almost like using each as a shooting attack with a shooting attack?  Skaven in general seems to be a thinking rat's army more than point and click like Mawtribes monster mash which I'm used to using.

Combine The vial of the fulminator with your doomwheels and you’ve got yourself a unexpected guest in the enemy ranks.

 

[Lord Krungharr]

I did a small test match of some doomwheels and a lightning cannon along with the Arch and regular Warlocks, as if they were all in the battalions....vs a Frostlord on Stonehorn and 2 Stonehorn Beastriders.  One Doomwheel and Lightning Cannon was able to kill the Frostlord in one round of shooting.  It became clear that Doomwheels need to steer clear of our own units!  They really made it risky with the D3 MW to every unit within 1"....wish it was just enemy units but I guess that's the joy of Skaventide   When the  Beastclaws went first though they trampled and deleted almost everything in one go though.  1 drop Skryre army build options are really cool; and they play really fast which is also nice.  I don't expect to win much with them currently but be very gratified when it all works together.

A Doomwheel when souped up with a  Vigordust Injector, Deranged Inventor, and a Warpstone Spark could roll for 2D6 shots, hitting on 2s, rerolling hits, and doing D3+1 damage per wound that gets through.  Not too shabby or even too risky, just shifty.  Frankly I think I would probably not move the Doomwheels too fast most times, so they could stay in range of the buffs....but then if the positioning opened up they could be launched across multiple enemies if they were tiny enough enemies (they should be able to fly over anything that's not a monster really). 

Guess for the points of 2 Doomwheels you get Stormfiends and 40 points though.  I'll probably get a third unit of them and another ratling cannon in there.   Got my Acolytes kitbashed for the most part in the mean time.

 

[Skreech Verminking]

3 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I did a small test match of some doomwheels and a lightning cannon along with the Arch and regular Warlocks, as if they were all in the battalions....vs a Frostlord on Stonehorn and 2 Stonehorn Beastriders.  One Doomwheel and Lightning Cannon was able to kill the Frostlord in one round of shooting.  It became clear that Doomwheels need to steer clear of our own units!  They really made it risky with the D3 MW to every unit within 1"....wish it was just enemy units but I guess that's the joy of Skaventide   When the  Beastclaws went first though they trampled and deleted almost everything in one go though.  1 drop Skryre army build options are really cool; and they play really fast which is also nice.  I don't expect to win much with them currently but be very gratified when it all works together.

A Doomwheel when souped up with a  Vigordust Injector, Deranged Inventor, and a Warpstone Spark could roll for 2D6 shots, hitting on 2s, rerolling hits, and doing D3+1 damage per wound that gets through.  Not too shabby or even too risky, just shifty.  Frankly I think I would probably not move the Doomwheels too fast most times, so they could stay in range of the buffs....but then if the positioning opened up they could be launched across multiple enemies if they were tiny enough enemies (they should be able to fly over anything that's not a monster really). 

Guess for the points of 2 Doomwheels you get Stormfiends and 40 points though.  I'll probably get a third unit of them and another ratling cannon in there.   Got my Acolytes kitbashed for the most part in the mean time.

 

Think of it like this.

what can Doomwheels do.

basically being the best unit in the game.

why:

they have a pretty great chance of Sniping characters. (Are even better then jezzails)

Are able to move up to 48inches, so no worries of being able to get to that one hero hiding in the corner. 

they move trough 3 or less wound models, and do mortals (friend or foe) they are considered bad and week (which makes them even better)

One Doomwheel is already enough to bring the battlefield down to a chaos.

For a 150points unit you’ve got the chance to not only keep an entire enemy Army for a turn in his backlines, but are also able to put enough damage out to kill Nagash straight out,

if you roll unlikely good.

for 10 points more then a unit of jezzails this thing is a steal

Edited February 26, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[Lord Krungharr]

Yes, CHAOS.  That's what it does!  Sewing the seeds of confusion and discord.  Now I'm extra sold.  So the Vial of the Fulminator really would be a good thing to use on them then.   Gotta remember all the buffs' timing and positioning so a far-flung one could get properly killy, but that's what Gnawholes are for.   Warpspark would be in the shooting phase so a hero in range would be really useful in the backfield.  

With a full-on Skryre list using the Warpcog Convocation, is there any reason or way to use a Masterclan general?  I'm not seeing it.  Even without the battalions only a Warpseer or Grey Seer on foot seems useful.....unless I make 60 Acolytes to push a Screaming Bell (not doing that, probably not).  Thing is a 1 or 2 drop army seems pretty important for a low model count shooty army like this in any sort of competitive match.  

[DocKeule]

1 hour ago, Lord Krungharr said:

With a full-on Skryre list using the Warpcog Convocation, is there any reason or way to use a Masterclan general?

You could use a masterclan general to get some units out of battleshock. Also if you want to use a certain spell that is key to your strategy that might be a viable choice (or even if you just want to be able to cast more spells in general).

But in general a Warpcog Convocation can cast at least four spells per turn so most of the time you will be fine.

[Tizianolol]

Guys if i give warp spark in shooting phase to my warp light cannon, and he put like 5 MW , with spark is 10MW? It works on that too?

[Lord Krungharr]

I don't think that works for MW.   Can't access my rulebooks but I think damage refers to wounds, not MW.   They're very separate things.