AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Gwendar]

Just now, Skreech Verminking said:

unless they have some kind of a fight three times ability, your basically going to kill him with a screen of clanrats backed up with some Acolytes, Stormfiends, Stormvermins, Plague monks.

They don't. So they aren't super killy, nor are they super defensive.. I'm trying to get some games in with them this weekend but no-ones been available. They can maybe hold onto objectives reasonably well for a couple turns but.. they don't win the attrition game.

They can go to 40 wounds with a Command Trait and the Warstomper can take an artifact to RR saves but... yeah. They may kill 20-30 Clanrats if they're lucky, but those 35-40 wounds are getting removed right after, like you said. Assuming they make it there in the first place with Fiends\Jezzails.

[Skreech Verminking]

1 minute ago, Gwendar said:

1)They don't. So they aren't super killy, nor are they super defensive.. I'm trying to get some games in with them this weekend but no-ones been available. They can maybe hold onto objectives reasonably well for a couple turns but.. they don't win the attrition game.

2)They can go to 40 wounds with a Command Trait and the Warstomper can take an artifact to RR saves but... yeah. They may kill 20-30 Clanrats if they're lucky, but those 35-40 wounds are getting removed right after, like you said. Assuming they make it there in the first place with Fiends\Jezzails.

2) yeah, at least against the skaven, their luck will run out pretty fast.

especially considering that a vast majority of skavenplayers have started using 100++clanrats in games.

and that’s a pretty tough not to crack for those giants.

1)I’m going to guess your looking for somebody with the tabletop simulator, game.

if I’ll be able to install it with the mod needed to play aos, I wouldn’t mind being that opponent.

although it might be a bit hard to play a game of with not knowing the full rules of those giants (allegiance and so on) .

[Gwendar]

8 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

2) yeah, at least against the skaven, their luck will run out pretty fast.

especially considering that a vast majority of skavenplayers have started using 100++clanrats in games.

and that’s a pretty tough not to crack for those giants.

1)I’m going to guess your looking for somebody with the tabletop simulator, game.

if I’ll be able to install it with the mod needed to play aos, I wouldn’t mind being that opponent.

although it might be a bit hard to play a game of with not knowing the full rules of those giants (allegiance and so on) .

Warstompers could potentially clear them (Mancrushers get +1\+2 damage vs units with 10+\20+ models) but.. meh.

And yeah, I am. The only thing you really need from the Steam Workshop with TTS is the following:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1703264561&searchtext=Skaven
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2041945260&searchtext=deinoks+table (this one is only really necessary if you intend to host games yourselves, honestly)

We actually do have the full rules as multiple people have put out the book review today. So I've already gone ahead and made a little cheat-sheet with all of the rules and with the warscrolls on the website.. I'm set to play them at 100% 😅

[Skreech Verminking]

21 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Warstompers could potentially clear them (Mancrushers get +1\+2 damage vs units with 10+\20+ models) but.. meh.

And yeah, I am. The only thing you really need from the Steam Workshop with TTS is the following:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1703264561&searchtext=Skaven
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2041945260&searchtext=deinoks+table (this one is only really necessary if you intend to host games yourselves, honestly)

We actually do have the full rules as multiple people have put out the book review today. So I've already gone ahead and made a little cheat-sheet with all of the rules and with the warscrolls on the website.. I'm set to play them at 100% 😅

Ok, thx.

let me have a look at that stuff tomorrow.

Too tired to do anything tonight/ or today (depending where you live.)

 

[Coyote]

51 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

35wounds with a 4+ is basically nothing.

unless they have some kind of a fight three times ability, your basically going to kill him with a screen of clanrats backed up with some Acolytes, Stormfiends, Stormvermins, Plague monks.

Yeah they really aren’t that particularly meta breaking.

but are certainly a Lot of fun.

 

Do it.

 

@Skreech Verminking

Ok.

[Andelion]

Hey guys,

I've just grabbed what I think could be a decent start for a skaven army off someone, I've always been attracted by skaven since playing orcs and goblins in WFB.

I must admit that I don't massivey know what I'm doing but can anyone give me some advice as to how this stuff coulld generally fair and what woudl be decent to add? I like the look of random but risky stuff like doomwheels but I'm also fairly competitive.

This is what is coming my way:

80 clanrats

Thanquol and Boneripper

Grey seer on screaming bell 

Warp lightning cannon

Skritch Spiteclaw

20 Stormvermin,

Warp grinder team

Warp thrower

Island of blood chieftain

 

Thanks!

[Skreech Verminking]

15 minutes ago, Andelion said:

Hey guys,

I've just grabbed what I think could be a decent start for a skaven army off someone, I've always been attracted by skaven since playing orcs and goblins in WFB.

I must admit that I don't massivey know what I'm doing but can anyone give me some advice as to how this stuff coulld generally fair and what woudl be decent to add? I like the look of random but risky stuff like doomwheels but I'm also fairly competitive.

This is what is coming my way:

80 clanrats

Thanquol and Boneripper

Grey seer on screaming bell 

Warp lightning cannon

Skritch Spiteclaw

20 Stormvermin,

Warp grinder team

Warp thrower

Island of blood chieftain

 

Thanks!

That is a good start into the skaven.

😉.

I hope you’ll enjoy playing them

[Andelion]

27 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

That is a good start into the skaven.

😉.

I hope you’ll enjoy playing them

Thanks buddy!

I'm hoping that the 2 x 40 clanrats goes some way to ticking off that battleline and then I can throw in some other stuff like another cannon or another bell.

I miss the Orcs and Goblins theme of an army that is a bit random but if everything goes your way it can be pretty nasty! Plus I just love the skaven books.

[Coyote]

Playing my  4 Bell list today to prep for a small tourney.  Will try to post a highlight report later.

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Coyote so many bells. reminds me of an old General chaos soup list with that many bells and a fateweaver for a near certain verminlord summon.

[Coyote]

Lol Top of Turn 1 - Gain two Veminlords

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Coyote said:

Lol Top of Turn 1 - Gain two Veminlords

You truly are chosen by the ratking. That's an amazing bit of rolling.

Did you actually have two with you?

Edited October 11, 2020 by Kramer

[Coyote]

I have a selection.

[gronnelg]

Hey guys! I previously posted this list, which I really like on paper (haven't gotten to try it yet though). However, I am very scared of having only one engineer, as 5 wounds at 5+ is super easy to snipe, and would really hurt my list. So I'm wondering if I could somehow squeeze in a 2nd engineer. 
Alternativly, how would you change this list? 
The goal is an all-round tournament list.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Clawlord (100)
- Mighty Warlord Command Trait: Verminous Valour
Thanquol on Boneripper (390)
- 4 Warpfire Projectors
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Deranged Inventor
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Stormvermin (400)
- Halberd

Units
20 x Skryre Acolytes (200)

Artillery
Warplock Jezzails (420)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Bell of Doom (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 161

 

[Coyote]

I’d drop Thanquol, bring the ArchWarlock, and 1 Command Point. Then maybe a WLC too?

[Gwendar]

11 minutes ago, gronnelg said:

Hey guys! I previously posted this list, which I really like on paper (haven't gotten to try it yet though). However, I am very scared of having only one engineer, as 5 wounds at 5+ is super easy to snipe, and would really hurt my list. So I'm wondering if I could somehow squeeze in a 2nd engineer. 
Alternativly, how would you change this list? 
The goal is an all-round tournament list.

Hmm.. tough. I assume you want to keep Thanquol, so the only thing I can think to do is to drop down to 6 Jezzails in order to fit it in. I wouldn't drop the Clawlord since that +1 attack is a huge damage increase for them. You could drop down to 2x20 Clanrats and lose the Bell, but now you have BS immunity problems and less bodies.

So, other than those choices.. all you can do is drop Thanquol and you would have enough for an AW (or Engineer of your choice) and a Screaming Bell if you so desire. Thanquol is a threat in his own right though, so that's obviously something to consider.

[gronnelg]

13 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Hmm.. tough. I assume you want to keep Thanquol, so the only thing I can think to do is to drop down to 6 Jezzails in order to fit it in. I wouldn't drop the Clawlord since that +1 attack is a huge damage increase for them. You could drop down to 2x20 Clanrats and lose the Bell, but now you have BS immunity problems and less bodies.

So, other than those choices.. all you can do is drop Thanquol and you would have enough for an AW (or Engineer of your choice) and a Screaming Bell if you so desire. Thanquol is a threat in his own right though, so that's obviously something to consider.

Yeah, I want to keep Thanquol to be able to cast death frenzy with +2, and horde clearing. It's a tough choice though. Going down to 6 jezzails feels like it would make them much less of a threat. Do you think it would be worth it, for that extra engineer? 
And yeah, I would rather keep the bell. 

[Gwendar]

5 minutes ago, gronnelg said:

Yeah, I want to keep Thanquol to be able to cast death frenzy with +2, and horde clearing. It's a tough choice though. Going down to 6 jezzails feels like it would make them much less of a threat. Do you think it would be worth it, for that extra engineer? 
And yeah, I would rather keep the bell. 

I've largely stopped running 9 Jezzails in lists (but that's mostly because I've running 2 1/2 threat lists with Fiends and Stormvermin and then I have just enough to squeeze in a WLC or something) but when I do run them, 6 has done just fine. Jezzails will math out to do ~1-1.5 damage per model with a spark and hit RR's, so you would only lose about 3 damage. If the goal is to just snipe out 5 wound heroes then 6 should be enough unless you just roll like trash a lot 😅

I like having that extra security of another Engineer, especially in an age where so many things can take them off the board quite easily. 2 Bombardiers wouldn't be bad just because that 18" shot can surprise you in the damage it does sometimes. An AW is nice as well for the better save and extra wound, on top of being a 2-cast\unbind wizard.

[SoSoCho]

On 10/9/2020 at 9:55 PM, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@SoSoCho Welcome to the rat-tastic community! I have so many things to say but I don’t want to overwhelm you. So you’re dipping your toes into Pestilens huh? Well firstly, the corruptor is a fine centerpiece. Frankly it has dodged a great many point increases compared to its brothers which makes it friendly to list builders. It has my personal favorite spell as well. As for optimization, it’s sad about the SOJ but count it as a blessing. Anything that paints a target on your models back sometimes pigeon holes you into a play style. Without knowing too much else about how you want to play, just try stuff. Blistivus the Pestilens artifact is already fun, or eshin’s gnawbomb can be a cheeky way to drop his plague spell at the top of the first round. Just some ideas.

I was wondering if you could help me make a 1250point list for a private tournament or what I should go buy.

 I currently have:

70x plaguemonks

1x plague priest

10x censer plague bearers

1x grey seer

1x verminlord corruptor

1x thanquel

1x plague furnace

1x screaming bell

2x plagueclaw

Skaven Endless spells

 

Best regards

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@SoSoCho Absolutely will help. Here's a sample list I made with what you have now. 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide
LEADERS

Verminlord Corruptor (280)

Plague Priest on Plague Furnace (200)
- Artefact: Liber Bubonicus

Grey Seer (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
UNITS

40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Foetid Blades
- 2 x Standard Bearers
- 2 x Plague Harbingers

10 x Plague Monks (80)
- Foetid Blades
- 1 x Standard Bearers
- 1 x Plague Harbingers

10 x Plague Monks (80)
- Foetid Blades
- 1 x Standard Bearers
- 1 x Plague Harbingers

10 x Plague Monks (80)
- Foetid Blades
- 1 x Standard Bearers
- 1 x Plague Harbingers

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS

Vermintide (40)
Umbral Spellportal (70)

TOTAL: 1250/2000 WOUNDS: 100
LEADERS: 3/6

BATTLELINES: 4 (3+)

BEHEMOTHS: 2/4

ARTILLERY: 0/4
 

I added an Umbral Spellportal in the list but I'm sure you can proxy that for now. I didn't catch if you've played a lot with Pestilens but I would recommend the following strategy for any Pestilens allegience army at any point level: Use plague monks as both chaff AND your "hammer". For smaller games that you're about to play, run a 10 block ahead of your 40 block and another 10 in front of your verminlord so they can take the initial engagements. 

With this particular list, I was cheeky and gave you the capability to umbral spellportal the Dreaded Plague spell from the Verminlord for a round 1 suprise. If you go first you can attempt to bombard your opponents objective capturing blobs of units (if any). Scenario pending, this is a possibility. If that doesn't work you can always place the spellportal ahead of your army, move your wizards up, and set up a round 2 bombardment. 

[SoSoCho]

@Riff_Raff_Rascal

Ty ^^ hmmhmm I think im going up against atleast 1 beastclaw army, 1 orruk warclans, and 1x khorne cavalary army.

Im kinda affraid my monks will get trampled :s 

is it not a good idea ro bring catapults or thanquol for some more heavy damage against the above armies ?

it is going to be my first time to play skaven btw hehe

alsp the gnaw holes ? It says to put them up 9" away from enemy models (I think). But since they are set up before armies there is no enemies ? Does that mean i can place one behind enemy lines or hehe ?

best regards

Edited October 14, 2020 by SoSoCho

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

8 hours ago, SoSoCho said:

Im kinda affraid my monks will get trampled :s

There's a lesson to be learned here, for the game in general. Skaven, above most armies, teaches a player that any models put on your game table are meant to die, no matter how elite they may feel. As much as we want to play with our toys, you have to learn to let them go when it moves you forward. Take Thanquol for instance, you absolutely can choose him for some beat stick power (which by the way was my first ever centerpiece). You will learn quickly as well as I did that even models with imposing silhouettes don't last long on a +4 save. You might then think its not worth taking. But the next lesson I learned comes down to the fundamentals of the game which is battlefield roles and when to make engagements. Playing skaven makes this easy to see: we are glass cannons in every sense of the word. We die in droves if we don't get the first hit. And so yes, you are going to get trampled over by those armies you mentioned, if you get hit first. 

The role of your big block of monks is to be that glass cannon. The role of the smaller units is to be a speed bump. They will be obliterated to dust but that is their role. Then on your turn you can charge in with "hammer" monks at full power and obliterate your enemies unit. Again, its all about timing. For larger games as you scale up, the trick will be to copy this strategy many times over across the battlefield. Remember Thanquol? Well you can treat him as a hammer in the same manner, using a screen unit to take the initial charge. In the list I sent you could take out the greyseer and verminlord to fit him in. 

A word on timing your engagements: sometimes its best not to engage at all. If its your turn, and you see you can make that first charge with your screen, don't be tempted. Just run them up 3'' away and sit. If you can make your opponents next turn super awkward by having only the screen be the target of their next charge, you've won. If you attacked on your turn, the small unit of monks most certainly would have died and thus your opponent is free to charge where ever they want on their next turn. Its also a cheeky way to steal objectives. If your opponent is sitting on an objective, on purpose or accidentally, you can just run up and take it without engaging (assuming they didn't screen you out of it altogether).

My final advice: Let your mentality be knowing "when" to let models die and NOT wondering "if" they'll die. 

 

 

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

9 hours ago, SoSoCho said:

Does that mean i can place one behind enemy lines or hehe ?

Yup Gnawholes can be place anywhere on the board edge. The 9'' away from enemies part I don't get or can't remember was part of the rule because I don't know what in the game causes enemy models to be on the table pre-deployment. If you really wanted to you could put all 3 on your opponents side just for giggles. 

9 hours ago, SoSoCho said:

is it not a good idea ro bring catapults

I wouldn't bother. All of those armies you're playing are going to close the distance so fast you're better off just adding more speed bumps for them. The other skaven players have tons of opinions on those catapults but for now I would wait to put them in a list until you're playing 2K points. 

[Gwendar]

2 minutes ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Yup Gnawholes can be place anywhere on the board edge. The 9'' away from enemies part I don't get or can't remember was part of the rule because I don't know what in the game causes enemy models to be on the table pre-deployment. If you really wanted to you could put all 3 on your opponents side just for giggles. 

I wouldn't bother. All of those armies you're playing are going to close the distance so fast you're better off just adding more speed bumps for them. The other skaven players have tons of opinions on those catapults but for now I would wait to put them in a list until you're playing 2K points. 

I think @SoSoCho is confusing the placement of Gnawholes with "models that use a Gnawhole must be more than 9" away from enemy models". The Gnawholes have specific rules in the battletome for how far away from other terrain they need to be, and they just need to be wholly within 8" of an edge. And as for those Catapults... oh boy do we have opinions on them 😉

I appreciate your comments in the last post. I've had people get so down and out the moment one of their units dies.. it largely ruins the game for both players (because now I feel bad for playing the game) and I try to turn them into a teaching moment the exact way you described. Of course, sometimes people don't want to listen and will continue to be a bit sour about it.

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Gwendar The actual advice I give in person about having the right mentality: "Behold! My stuff" and precede to drop the sickest minis on the table. At this point, I don't care if my models die in droves, they died with style. On the top of round 1 no less.