AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Verminlord]

On 8/13/2020 at 5:35 AM, gronnelg said:

Ooooh! I like that conversion idea!

Here's a prototype I whipped up today if you're curious. Really easy to do and I'm fairly happy with the result. If your clanrats have a bold scheme (mine are purple and white) a unit of these guys painted up dark would easily look like a separate unit type. Now I just need to find some easy to aquire bits or greenstuff technique to put in their tails/off hands/ belts for throwing weapons.

 

[Darkhan]

Made a pretty cool list. Only minus I see is the lack of clanrats.

1x doom warlock (general, deranged inventor, artefact vial of fulminator)

1x bell

1x warlock

2x20 clanrats

1x40 clanrats

9x jezzails

3x doomwheels

20x acolytes.

[Coyote]

@Gwendar Thanks!  I need this kind of assessment.  The only opponents I’ve had in the last 7 months have been 1 game against OBR and 1 vs Fyreslayers- both novice players.

[Skreech Verminking]

So I just had a blast a a tournament.

won 2games of 3 total.

(although one of them was morally wrong, considering that I had to skip out on a game.

(we had like 19 players, so one to many, which basically meant that a few lucky or unlucky persons were taking out of the game and given a major victory)

Anyways, those thoughts are basically gone.

Now sitting on my way back home (got a 3 hour trip to keep myself bored) I made some lists that bot only might be the answer to our problem, bit also guaranties us a cp.
Aand the rest of my list are basically just some fun Ideas, probably not great enough for this kind of competition, but at least fun, and I really wanted them out of my head.

so here they are My list ideas:

Rat a mole

Allegiance: Skaventide
LEADERS
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- Artefact : Staff of Rightful Supremacy - Lore of Ruin : Skitterleap
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- General
- Command Trait : Deranged Inventor
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
UNITS
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
6 x Stormfiends (520)
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Foetid Blades
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Warp Lightning Vortex (80)
TOTAL: 2000/2000
LEADERS: 2/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+)
ARTEFACTS: 1/1 ENDLESS SPELLS: 1/3 ALLIES: 0/400
    WOUNDS: 220
BEHEMOTHS: 1/4
ARTILLERY: 0/4

Can’t see can’t shoot:

Allegiance: Skaventide
LEADERS
Arch-Warlock (160)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- General
- Command Trait : Deranged Inventor
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
 UNITS
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
6 x Stormfiends (520)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
ARTILLERY
Warp Lightning Cannon (180) Warp Lightning Cannon (180) BATTALIONS
Gautfyre Skorch (90) Arkhspark Voltik (60) Warpcog Convocation (60)
LEADERS: 3/6
ARTEFACTS: 0/2 ENDLESS SPELLS: 0/3 ALLIES: 0/400
    TOTAL: 2000/2000
WOUNDS: 134
BATTLELINES: 3 (3+)
BEHEMOTHS: 0/4
ARTILLERY: 2/4

 

more more more zap-Zzzap!!

Allegiance: Skaventide
LEADERS
Arch-Warlock (160)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
UNITS
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
BEHEMOTHS
Hell Pit Abomination (220)
ARTILLERY
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
BATTALIONS
Warpcog Convocation (60)
Arkhspark Voltik (60)
Arkhspark Voltik (60)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS Bell of Doom (40)
TOTAL: 2000/2000
LEADERS: 3/6 BATTLELINES: 4 (3+)
ARTEFACTS: 0/2 ENDLESS SPELLS: 1/3 ALLIES: 0/400
       WOUNDS: 204
BEHEMOTHS: 1/4
ARTILLERY: 2/4

And last bad not least the;

What you can’t see you can’t shoot,

Uahahaa!!!!!

Allegiance: Skaventide
LEADERS
Verminlord Deceiver (320)
- General
- Command Trait : Shadowmaster
Deathmaster (100)
- Artefact : Farskitter Cloak
Deathmaster (100)
UNITS
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
20 x Gutter Runners (200)
20 x Gutter Runners (200)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
40 x Stormvermin (400)
- Halberd
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
   Bell of Doom (40)
 TOTAL: 2000/2000
LEADERS: 3/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+)
ARTEFACTS: 1/1 ENDLESS SPELLS: 1/3 ALLIES: 0/400
WOUNDS: 191
BEHEMOTHS: 1/4
ARTILLERY: 0/

[Gwendar]

25 minutes ago, Coyote said:

@Gwendar Thanks!  I need this kind of assessment.  The only opponents I’ve had in the last 7 months have been 1 game against OBR and 1 vs Fyreslayers- both novice players.

Always worth looking at it from all angles 😉

Despite having 3 bad games with it, I still think it has it's merits and can do well against a lot of armies.. I just don't think they really need Grinders and would much rather just bring Fiends. Hell, I'm seriously considering trying out 2x6 Fiends this weekend sometime.

[Cosmicsheep]

24 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

I just don't think they really need Grinders and would much rather just bring Fiends

I had my first games since lockdown yesterday. Just 1k points casual games, but the first time using the chronomantic cogs I bought recently. And having watched coach’s YouTube tactics video I tried placing my gnawholes on the left and right edges of the board which paired with cogs allowed me to get 40 monks in combat T1, and in my second game got the Hellpit in combat with a 9” charge and then a double turn to decimate 2 units of dwarves. I do see the benefits of grinders for high value shooting units (i.e. fiends and jezzails) but feel that cogs are better value for money when paired with correctly placed gnawholes.

[Skreech Verminking]

44 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Uahahaa!!!!!

Allegiance: Skaventide
LEADERS
Verminlord Deceiver (320)
- General
- Command Trait : Shadowmaster
Deathmaster (100)
- Artefact : Farskitter Cloak
Deathmaster (100)
UNITS
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
20 x Gutter Runners (200)
20 x Gutter Runners (200)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
40 x Stormvermin (400)
- Halberd
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
   Bell of Doom (40)
 TOTAL: 2000/2000
LEADERS: 3/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+)
ARTEFACTS: 1/1 ENDLESS SPELLS: 1/3 ALLIES: 0/400
WOUNDS: 191
BEHEMOTHS: 1/4
ARTILLERY: 0/

Haha!

This was basically meant as a joke, till I realized how frightening this list can be against tzeentch, Seraphons and Lumineth shooting heavy

 armies.

You’re basically starting with a Verminlord, that is already -2 to ht natural, and next to that he can’t even be targeted by enemy units more then 6inches away from him, as long as he is sitting within 1 of a terrain feature,

so basically our gnawholes😂

with the exception of lumineth being able to shoot at stuff, that they can’t see, basically any other army

will struggle a ton against this army.
Oh so you brought 2-3Batiladons to blast my armies to bitz, well have fun doing nothing😂.

oh so your playing ko with 5frigates, consider your list dead for the first turn (and laugh horrible as you’ll notice, how easily it is to 

Zone out the rest of the army, by literally ignoring the one thing you can’t shoot.

So your tzeentch Army has 12-20 Flamers,

have a laugh as your army will die doing nothing, Yes-yes

My next list, definitely 

and very stealth- sneaky indeed

Edited August 15, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, Cosmicsheep said:

I do see the benefits of grinders for high value shooting units (i.e. fiends and jezzails) but feel that cogs are better value for money when paired with correctly placed gnawholes.

Yeah, I mean I had a list for a tournament a month or so ago using 2 Grinders + Cogs and 40 Monks in each. Worked out okay, but wasn't something I'd do again as it was a bit gimmicky.. although +3 to charge made them pretty consistent.

The thing with my 1 Grinder list is that I can place either the Fiends or the SV\Monks into it and have the other unit come out of a Gnawhole. If I dropped some Clanrats I could definitely take Cogs, so could be worth experimenting... although I know it works well enough because I had this exact thing done to me against a top rated skaven tournament player 🤣(minus the Cogs.. if he had those it would've meant his SV got in T1)

[Blueraven84]

I'm in process of building pure Skryre list and this probably should be in questions thread, but I figured Skaven collectors would know  better..so here goes:

Stormfiends are battleline only if every other unit in army is clan Skryre.... so the question is, can I take Gnawholes in my pure Skryre list as they are lacking the keyword Skryre? Seems like oversight from GW but you never know...

[Gwendar]

4 minutes ago, Blueraven84 said:

I'm in process of building pure Skryre list and this probably should be in questions thread, but I figured Skaven collectors would know  better..so here goes:

Stormfiends are battleline only if every other unit in army is clan Skryre.... so the question is, can I take Gnawholes in my pure Skryre list as they are lacking the keyword Skryre? Seems like oversight from GW but you never know...

You take Gnawholes no matter what. They have nothing to do with any keywords; they're terrain and not units.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Gwendar

[Verminlord]

On 8/15/2020 at 1:43 PM, Cosmicsheep said:

I had my first games since lockdown yesterday. Just 1k points casual games, but the first time using the chronomantic cogs I bought recently. And having watched coach’s YouTube tactics video I tried placing my gnawholes on the left and right edges of the board which paired with cogs allowed me to get 40 monks in combat T1, and in my second game got the Hellpit in combat with a 9” charge and then a double turn to decimate 2 units of dwarves. I do see the benefits of grinders for high value shooting units (i.e. fiends and jezzails) but feel that cogs are better value for money when paired with correctly placed gnawholes.

It depends on the list really, but with the grinder there is nothing your opponent can do about you using it.

Cogs have to be successfully cast, not unbound, and aid your opponent just as much as you.

Gnaw holes can be blocked by any cheap unit your opponent throws on them.

Skitterleap+grinder is even better, but obviously more expensive and list dependent.

[fishwaffle2232]

On 8/14/2020 at 11:18 PM, Gwendar said:

 

2-3 is still fine; 2 if you're using Grinders to keep 1-2 of them off the board and 3 at a minimum for anything else.. hell, even in those situations I still say bring a Grinder. There are flat out just going to be bad matchups and there isn't much getting around that, but having 1-2 Grinders to keep things off the board is helpful so far.
 

Have you tried running 2 grinders? I'm definitely going to use one to try with my 6 stormfiends, but I'm worried about them getting caught out in the open. Obviously this can be mitigated by bringing them on close to gnawholes, but I suspect this will be too limiting and hard to pull off.

Having a unit of clanrats setup with a grinder team in front of the stormfiends does sound very deadly in theory, but I'm not sure it is worth the points. I feel like those stormfiends will want a screen, I'm just not sure what the best way to achieve this is. 

[Cosmicsheep]

11 hours ago, Verminlord said:

It depends on the list really, but with the grinder there is nothing your opponent can do about you using it.

Cogs have to be successfully cast, not unbound, and aid your opponent just as much as you.

Gnaw holes can be blocked by any cheap unit your opponent throws on them.

Skitterleap+grinder is even better, but obviously more expensive and list dependent.

True enough.... but in this instance i was playing against a slow moving Dwarf army and wasn't too concerned about his extra movement.

I used an engineer sat in a gnawhole at the back of the board so he was a) out of unbind range and b) +1 to cast and with a spark should i need the reroll

And with my gnawholes half way up the board on the left and right edges he wasn't close enough to block them

Watching Coach's video has really made me re-think my deployment tactics and that's what i'm trying to share with the forum

Nothing against your method, and i totally understand what you mean about grinders. Being able to pop-up anywhere and with the enemy having no way to stop AND bringing a unit from off the board is hard to play against i'm sure.

TBH i don't have any grinders so haven't tried them myself. Maybe i'll proxy in a WFT in my next game

Edited August 17, 2020 by Cosmicsheep

[Gwendar]

7 hours ago, fishwaffle2232 said:

Have you tried running 2 grinders? I'm definitely going to use one to try with my 6 stormfiends, but I'm worried about them getting caught out in the open. Obviously this can be mitigated by bringing them on close to gnawholes, but I suspect this will be too limiting and hard to pull off.

Having a unit of clanrats setup with a grinder team in front of the stormfiends does sound very deadly in theory, but I'm not sure it is worth the points. I feel like those stormfiends will want a screen, I'm just not sure what the best way to achieve this is. 

You're typically using this with the intention of trying to get a double turn. A screen for them is nice, definitely.. but I don't believe it's worth the points for another Grinder for that purpose. At that point you may as well use 10 Nightrunners for the same price and hope they can run up fast enough to stand in front (battleplan\deployment dependent).

Not to mention, if you're deploying 20-40 Clanrats in front of 6 Fiends then that's a potential 2-4" the Fiends are losing from both units needing to be setup more than 9" away (which could mean they don't get to shoot what they want with their Ratling Cannons). A lot of the time when using them in this manner I'm also trying to charge the Fiends in to something not super threatening; it's all about applying pressure to multiple sides of the board which is why you also run SV or Monks with it to hit the other side and force them to choose.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Gwendar

[MasterMoulder]

My complete (for now!) Clan Moulder. Just put the finishing touches on the Hellpit. Painted the Verminlord earlier this year, and otherwise have had the rest for a while.

 

Edit: typos

Edited August 17, 2020 by MasterMoulder

[Darkhan]

9 hours ago, fishwaffle2232 said:

Have you tried running 2 grinders? I'm definitely going to use one to try with my 6 stormfiends, but I'm worried about them getting caught out in the open. Obviously this can be mitigated by bringing them on close to gnawholes, but I suspect this will be too limiting and hard to pull off.

Having a unit of clanrats setup with a grinder team in front of the stormfiends does sound very deadly in theory, but I'm not sure it is worth the points. I feel like those stormfiends will want a screen, I'm just not sure what the best way to achieve this is. 

I used 1 grinder with 9 stormfiends, those loving times before the nuke of nerfdom came. 

I FAILED to skitterleap the engineer (with deranged inventor) ahead to where the I wanted the stormfiends to pop up..so I had to wait to the next round before doing another attempt. Nailed it the second time..but that is the risk with bringing them underground. Even with 9x fiends I noticed the dps loss with them just having the deranged buff.

[fishwaffle2232]

15 hours ago, Gwendar said:

You're typically using this with the intention of trying to get a double turn. A screen for them is nice, definitely.. but I don't believe it's worth the points for another Grinder for that purpose. At that point you may as well use 10 Nightrunners for the same price and hope they can run up fast enough to stand in front (battleplan\deployment dependent).

Not to mention, if you're deploying 20-40 Clanrats in front of 6 Fiends then that's a potential 2-4" the Fiends are losing from both units needing to be setup more than 9" away (which could mean they don't get to shoot what they want with their Ratling Cannons). A lot of the time when using them in this manner I'm also trying to charge the Fiends in to something not super threatening; it's all about applying pressure to multiple sides of the board which is why you also run SV or Monks with it to hit the other side and force them to choose.

Yea playing for the double seems quite risky for obvious reasons. Keeping the stormfiends off the board and being able to bring them on to reach anything with the launchers definitely seems like a better version of the bridge, which I think is just too expensive and risky now in the magic heavy meta. I like that early threat with the launchers and 6 jezzails being able to snipe off a character or two. 

I guess clanrats move pretty quickly anyway so it shouldn't be too hard to get them into a screening position by running them up the board. 

[Gwendar]

6 minutes ago, fishwaffle2232 said:

Yea playing for the double seems quite risky for obvious reasons. Keeping the stormfiends off the board and being able to bring them on to reach anything with the launchers definitely seems like a better version of the bridge, which I think is just too expensive and risky now in the magic heavy meta. I like that early threat with the launchers and 6 jezzails being able to snipe off a character or two. 

I guess clanrats move pretty quickly anyway so it shouldn't be too hard to get them into a screening position by running them up the board. 

Always risky, but I feel more pressured to go for it nowadays or just get blasted off the board.. I can't really play as cagey as I used to. I still really vouch for the Bridge honestly.. I don't think you should be reliant on it, but if you can make it happen it's very helpful. Obviously if you don't get it then you have a 100 point paperweight for a turn which feels pretty bad, but that's not as many armies as you may think that will prevent you from doing that; the biggest threats are honestly just Tzeentch, Lumineth and Seraphon and even they have a chance to fail which could be a death sentence for them. The only bad thing with Grinder + Fiends is just Deranged Inventor not being MMMWP. That said, it "only" cuts off 5-7 damage on average.

Still thinking Cogs may be worth a test, we'll see if I can fit them in somewhere and maybe get some games in this week\weekend.

[Cosmicsheep]

So i'm thinking of running this list for my next game:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide
Warpgnaw Verminlord (270)
Arch-Warlock (160)
- General
- Command Trait: Deranged Inventor
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
6 x Stormfiends (520)
- 2x Windlaunchers
- 2x Ratling Cannons
- 2x Doomflayer Gauntlets
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Woe-stave
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
10 x Night Runners (80)
Chronomantic Cogs (80)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 188

The general idea being:

1. Nightrunners deployed last but in front of the enemies largest threat. Immediately push up 2D6"
2. Warlock starts in a gnawhole at the back of the board and casts cogs (using warpspark where necessary)
3. Nightrunners run (using the +2 from the cogs) to get as far forward as needed
4. Stormfiends come out of the grinder hole just behind the nightrunners
5. Warlock comes through nearest gnawhole to support
6. Plague monks come out of grinder hole on opposite side of board
7. Varpgnaw comes out of nearest gnawhole to support plague monks
8. Fiends should be within ratling range and put everything into the largest threat (with spark and vigordust buffs)
9. Plague monks only need a 6" charge (innate +1, cogs +2) and warpgnaw has CP to re-roll if necessary
10. Clanrats protect flanks and/or grab objectives

What do we think ??  I'm a little unsure about the lack of battleshock immunity, I normally take a bell.

[Gwendar]

3 hours ago, Cosmicsheep said:

What do we think ??  I'm a little unsure about the lack of battleshock immunity, I normally take a bell.

Who needs BS immunity if you kill all the important threats and end the game?

In all seriousness I do like it, I think you'd be fine. This is very reliant on you getting a double-turn, in my opinion. Luckily, everything can easily go right for you and you only need Cogs to happen. The reason I say you need a double is that many armies can screen against this and keep their important (IE unreachable with 12" Ratlings or Monks) stuff behind it. If they go next, your stuff has a good chance at being dead so just keep that in mind. If they deploy poorly then 100% go for it if you can remove threats that would counter your Fiends + Monks even if they went next.

Worth noting you could drop 20 Clanrats and take the Bell of Doom and an extra CP which is another charge reroll or BS immunity; both of which are important here. Bell may have an issue getting up the board to help the Fiends or Monks unless you cast it T2.. but could still be worth.

[Congratz]

I’ve been out of the Skaven Game for quite awhile and more less also warhammer.

 

returning now tho, i can understand that the meta has become quite shooty and magic heavy? How does this effect the “normal” skaven lists? I used to run this: (sorry on phone can’t find spoiler tag)

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- Artefact: Skavenbrew  
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Overseer of Destruction  
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Clawlord (100)

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
- 2x Standard Bearers
- 2x Standard Bell Ringers
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
- 2x Standard Bearers
- 2x Standard Bell Ringers
40 x Stormvermin (400)
- Halberd

Units
20 x Skryre Acolytes (200)

Artillery
Warplock Jezzails (420)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 186

 

does this even work well anymore? I can see alot of you talking about Grinders with stormfiends and with Monks or Stormvermin (Which are best SV or Monks?)

what about Jezzails? Still worth it?

do i need to change my list and adapt it? Really don’t wanna lose my Bell and Jezzails... (tho the list above with nightrunners look pretty cool)

[Darkhan]

2 minutes ago, Congratz said:

I’ve been out of the Skaven Game for quite awhile and more less also warhammer.

 

returning now tho, i can understand that the meta has become quite shooty and magic heavy? How does this effect the “normal” skaven lists? I used to run this: (sorry on phone can’t find spoiler tag)

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- Artefact: Skavenbrew  
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Overseer of Destruction  
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Clawlord (100)

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
- 2x Standard Bearers
- 2x Standard Bell Ringers
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
- 2x Standard Bearers
- 2x Standard Bell Ringers
40 x Stormvermin (400)
- Halberd

Units
20 x Skryre Acolytes (200)

Artillery
Warplock Jezzails (420)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 186

 

does this even work well anymore? I can see alot of you talking about Grinders with stormfiends and with Monks or Stormvermin (Which are best SV or Monks?)

what about Jezzails? Still worth it?

do i need to change my list and adapt it? Really don’t wanna lose my Bell and Jezzails... (tho the list above with nightrunners look pretty cool)

This is pretty much Dan's list, so should be fine I guess;p

 

[Congratz]

37 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

This is pretty much Dan's list, so should be fine I guess;p

 

Yeah 😛 a friend of mine showed me the list. I’ve been liking it ever since haha

[Gwendar]

46 minutes ago, Congratz said:

does this even work well anymore? I can see alot of you talking about Grinders with stormfiends and with Monks or Stormvermin (Which are best SV or Monks?)

what about Jezzails? Still worth it?

do i need to change my list and adapt it? Really don’t wanna lose my Bell and Jezzails... (tho the list above with nightrunners look pretty cool)

It definitely does, and as pointed out is basically Dan Brewers list which he's seen success with. I don't care much for Acolytes, but that's a personal preference and I'm not saying they're bad because they absolutely aren't.. I just find that I get more mileage (and ease of use) out of Fiends than I do Acolytes.

As for Monks\SV.. still a toss up for me. SV will absolutely hit harder but I think it's getting that extra attack from the Clawlord (and\or with Skavenbrew) that sets them apart. That said, 80 Monks or 40 + an HPA can also be quite good but you have to throw in 120 points for that 3rd battleline of Clanrats.

Screaming Bell still has a place and as much as I dislike the thing, it's nearly a requirement until the Warpseer drops back down to 280-300 points (I'm sure GW disagrees) and that's especially true if you're running SV. Oh, and Jezzails are 100% a top tier unit.. taken in anything between 6-12 is still where you want them. More and more people have been taking 1 large unit of 12 which have some decent applications in killing more than just heroes or behemoths... but nowhere near as well as Fiends, Acolytes, SV or Monks.

[Congratz]

10 hours ago, Gwendar said:

It definitely does, and as pointed out is basically Dan Brewers list which he's seen success with. I don't care much for Acolytes, but that's a personal preference and I'm not saying they're bad because they absolutely aren't.. I just find that I get more mileage (and ease of use) out of Fiends than I do Acolytes.

As for Monks\SV.. still a toss up for me. SV will absolutely hit harder but I think it's getting that extra attack from the Clawlord (and\or with Skavenbrew) that sets them apart. That said, 80 Monks or 40 + an HPA can also be quite good but you have to throw in 120 points for that 3rd battleline of Clanrats.

Screaming Bell still has a place and as much as I dislike the thing, it's nearly a requirement until the Warpseer drops back down to 280-300 points (I'm sure GW disagrees) and that's especially true if you're running SV. Oh, and Jezzails are 100% a top tier unit.. taken in anything between 6-12 is still where you want them. More and more people have been taking 1 large unit of 12 which have some decent applications in killing more than just heroes or behemoths... but nowhere near as well as Fiends, Acolytes, SV or Monks.

Im still not sure with Acolytes either... might be 20” range but they are still 32mm and really squishy.

Stormvermin it is, love the lore and the model. Think monks look a bit... weird...

Yeah the old points for Warpseer was amazing 

12 Jezzails?! That sounds fun and deadly!