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59 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

So I just had a game with a skaventide list, that a friend of mine created.

I went up against a Overlords player.

and let me tell you this much.

they are extremely ugly, especially when facing an oppinent with only 80meatshield of which 40 were Stormvermins.

we played 1750points and although his Battleline is pretty much a joke, I was astonished of how much damage these guys can do in their first turn.

The game was basically already decided at the end of turn one.

although we kept playing, it was pretty clear to us that my skaventide army who just barely survived with a single Doomwheel 5acolytes 18Stormvermin and 20Clanrats was pretty much done for.

What was his and your list like? I haven't played against ko with their recent point drops but before it mostly came down to target priority and not getting doubled. It's a tough matchup. 

Another reason to run more Warpgrinders!

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25 minutes ago, Verminlord said:

What was his and your list like? I haven't played against ko with their recent point drops but before it mostly came down to target priority and not getting doubled. It's a tough matchup. 

Another reason to run more Warpgrinders!

This is the lost I brought with me:

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap
Grey Seer (140)
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Deranged Inventor  
- Artefact: Vial of the Fulminator  
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Stormvermin (400)
- Halberd

Units
1 x Doomwheel (150)
1 x Doomwheel (150)
20 x Skryre Acolytes (200)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Warp Lightning Vortex (80)

Total: 1720 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 139
 

He used 4 frigates a Khemist, another cheap Hero that can unbind, and do stuff.

2x10Arakanut companies 1x20company 

a battailon that allows him to charge 3d6inches

another battailon that allows him to use the ability fly high in the herophase with a ship, and the vortex (our endless spell!) in a bottle.

It is kinda funny if you think about it, but with gw always wanting to make the game go faster, it kinda went into a direction towards less drops wins automatically.

 

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43 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

It is kinda funny if you think about it, but with gw always wanting to make the game go faster, it kinda went into a direction towards less drops wins automatically.

Odd, isn't it? I don't think they should've been able to take other factions endless spells, personally... just being able to auto-cast whatever you want was fine. Things like what you're describing, Changehost with 12+ Flamers and Seraphon with Run + double shooting Bastiladons and\or Skink (buffed units of 30-40 can do a lot of MW's at range and melee) Salamander spam are all very top tier in the meta. It's a big reason why I'm really thinking my 21-24 Jezzails lists may have some legs but I also think that 6-12 Fiends and warpgrinders as @Verminlord mentioned are looking to be necessary to keep our big threats off the board for a turn.

KO's "weakness" is that they want to blow up as much stuff T1 and hope for a double. If they don't do that, then generally they will lose if you get priority and can start taking out those ships. Again, hiding units off the board greatly increases those odds.

Edited by Gwendar
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2 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Odd, isn't it? I don't think they should've been able to take other factions endless spells, personally... just being able to auto-cast whatever you want was fine. Things like what you're describing, Changehost with 12+ Flamers and Seraphon with Run + double shooting Bastiladons and\or Skink (buffed units of 30-40 can do a lot of MW's at range and melee) Salamander spam are all very top tier in the meta. It's a big reason why I'm really thinking my 21-24 Jezzails lists may have some legs but I also think that 6-12 Fiends and warpgrinders as @Verminlord mentioned are looking to be necessary to keep our big threats off the board for a turn.

KO's "weakness" is that they want to blow up as much stuff T1 and hope for a double. If they don't do that, then generally they will lose if you get priority and can start taking out those ships. Again, hiding units off the board greatly increases those odds.

It’s kinda funny but he took first turn.

but with his fire power, my 4 threads were reduced to zero in a single turn.

I think our best bet is to either go full out horde or as @Verminlordmentioned keep our threads of the table or try and keep them save with some nightrunners.

Still I don’t really understand why gw is basically giving units the damage output of stormfiends with their buffed rattling guns, but giving them another 6-12 extra inches of range.

it kinda seems stupid.

Edited by Skreech Verminking
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On 8/5/2020 at 3:36 PM, Darkhan said:

Curious about the 12x fiend list. What else greatness does it include?

I did it at a Tourney  got owned, because I’m a terrible player and my opponents are genius’s.  Mostly because I usually have no idea what I’m doing while they have plans and strategy and stuff.

 

The better list was the 2x 6 Fiends list the winner had.  I’ll try to find the various lists.

 

 

Edited by Coyote
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On 7/30/2020 at 2:16 PM, gronnelg said:

@Nikobot @Cosmicsheep Yeah, sorry I meant to say in units of 10. Clanrats are clearly superioder otherwise. 
And yeah, I think I would also favor night runners over giant rats. They are more expensive though. So I wonder, does anyone out there use giant rats?

I do! But then I run pure Moulder. Always have, and always will! They are not super reliable in combat, but when paired with a Master Moulder can put out a lot of pain. Plus they move fast and are fun 😁

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On 7/30/2020 at 9:54 PM, Kramer said:

In moulder list I did right after the book dropped. They actually surprised me in a big unit. It’s just such a swarm. And on top of the normal bonuses the range increase for numbers means you get a lot in as well. 
especially if you manage to buff them from a master moulder and even death frenzy. it’s pretty doable to get the to 

“3  range, 1 attack, 2+, 4+, -, 1 damage. Re-rolling wounds if rabid crown is near...

Quite impressive, super thematic, not at all points efficient especially outside of a clan moulder army. 

all that said its been a minute since I played Skaven. But the itch is back 💪🐀
 

Giant Rats are great! But not super reliable. They either delete things or miss completely. Just got to pray to the Great Horned Rat!

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16 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

I think our best bet is to either go full out horde or as @Verminlordmentioned keep our threads of the table or try and keep them save with some nightrunners.

Still I don’t really understand why gw is basically giving units the damage output of stormfiends with their buffed rattling guns, but giving them another 6-12 extra inches of range.

it kinda seems stupid.

It's rough. It's going to depend on the battleplan\deployment and your ability to put heroes\important stuff far away but a lot of the time it won't be possible with the guns having the range they do. Sometimes there's just bad matchups and not much can be done without a lot of luck (or your opponent having bad rolls).

I still think a Warpginder with 6 Fiends is really a good way to go to keep a major threat off the board. Alternatively you give them plenty of choices to shoot at, but if each of their threats can wipe one of yours then.. yeah, it can be difficult to deal with. Here's to hoping they're fixed with the Winter FAQ, but I doubt it since they aren't keeping track of TTS tournament results which is where a ton of data is coming from right now.

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Played The Blades Edge today - 2 K vs Fyreslayers.  I played a Pestilence list.

Only made 2 turns after a fun afternoon, I think I lost 7-5 but he thought we tied.  Anyway, fantastic battleplan to throw down after 6 months, just so much carnage. 

My list - 

3F747132-F8E8-4DEB-9DC5-F8D8DC7784B9.jpeg

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Alright, finished up the 3 game tournament using the meme-list of 24 Jezzails last night. Short summary; it should stay a meme and not be taken seriously 😅. While I think it can do pretty well against some armies, I think overall it doesn't perform super well but.. then again I didn't expect it to anyway.

To further summarize each game since I didn't do full batreps on any of  these:
The first game was against a meme OBR list (Nagash, Katakros, Zandtos and 3x10 Mortek). That was really lost from me due to target priority of aiming at Nagash for 2 turns rather than killing his scoring units in the Mortek as well as not being aggressive enough to push out with my 120 Clanrats.. of course I mis-deployed and Zandtos charged T1 and deleted a unit of 40 alone with BS casualties.

Next was a mirror match with Skaven using a similar Grinder + Stormfiend list I've ran myself. The biggest mistake here was me placing a Gnawhole that allowed him to use it against supremely well. The SV used the Grinder this time but failed a charge and the Fiends killed a Clanrat screen.. but when he got turn priority for a double that pretty much sealed it as the SV and Fiends finished off 80 Clanrats and 12 Jezzails. So yeah, that was on me for not knowing how to deal with 6 Gnawholes being placed down 😉

Last game was yet again another mirror match, this time vs 2 DW's and 2 WLC's in a double Arkhspark battalion. ON T1 the guy summons a Warpseer and puts it right in my face.. and honestly, this massively swung the game. I was pretty certain I had nothing to worry about and the Jezzails could easily delete 1-3 units a turn with split-firing carefully.. but that Warpseer instantaneously turned the game in his favor. I had 12 Jezzails blast at it only missing once or twice for him to roll eight 5's and 6's for his DPR save.. took it down to 2-3 wounds left and that hurt my soul. I ended the game with only 9 Jezzails left, but let me tell you those 9 pulled their weight. On my T2 I split those 9 shots in such a way that the single unit killed a DW with 3 wounds left, a WLC with 5 wounds left and the other WLC with 6 wounds left (just barely). I couldn't believe it... but I think that is what won me the game and ended up being the turning point.

That last game was probably the best game I played out of the 3 as I continually held the objectives to get about a 10 point lead on the guy going into T4.. but I think it would've been lost had those absolutely mad-lads of Jezzails not split fire and kill 3 units. I wouldn't try that at home unless you really had no other option, which was the situation I was in; if any 1 of those 3 things was left alive he would've been able to finish off the Jezzails and that would've been it.



Anyway, here's what I'll be running as my competitive list going forward, in case anyone was curious:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Deranged Inventor
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Stormvermin (400)
- Halberd & Shield

Units
6 x Stormfiends (520)
- 2x Windlaunchers
- 2x Ratling Cannons
- 2x Shock Gauntlets
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)

Artillery
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 170
 

Alternatively I could drop the WLC to a DW, and go down to 40 Clanrats total. That gives me enough for a Clawlord and an upgrade to the AW if I wanted.. at the very least I may drop to a DW just so I can grab an AW for the hell of it. Another alternate take would be drop the SV and run minimum Clanrats with 80 Monks instead.

Also, I'll have my first Tzeentch batrep up later for anyone interested. I ran a heavily magic based list I got from someone rather than the "standard" Flamers + Changehost ones that are popular... definitely a lot more fun and challenging to use.

Edited by Gwendar
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For those interested, I just put up my batrep against another Skaven player using a heavily magic (and not Flamers) focused Tzeentch list. Painting up these models as soon as I finish my Fyreslayers (only 19 more models to go) so figured I would get some practice in as they're a refreshing break from playing Skaven.
 

 

Edited by Gwendar
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@Nikobot He did about 4-5 MW's on the charge, gave himself extra attacks and then didn't miss pretty much any attacks and I couldn't roll a save to save my life. All in all he ended up killing around 20 of them, so without a CP to spend as he went first the rest battleshocked off.

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7 hours ago, Nikobot said:

@Gwendar holy cow, thats some output.. shame verminlords can't do half this 😏

I lie, warbringer + brutal could get close to this once a game 🙄

that must have been a shock! 

I thought the jezzails might get you some better results, I'd consider giving it another chance

I have no further comment on the ineffectiveness of our greater daemons 🙃

Yeah, I'll give it another shot for sure, I definitely fubar'd the first 2 games and the third just had a massive wrench thrown in with that Warpseer getting summoned T1 to start blasting Jezzails. When they did get to fire though, they were easily deleting 2 units a turn and if I split fire they would've been able to get 3 potentially. They were often rolling between 6-10 MW's for each unit of 12. I've updated the list to drop 3 Jezzails and 20 Clanrats in order to bring a Bell to avoid this situation in the future on top of having another hero for certain battleplans. Still, compared to Fiends + -insert melee threat here- + Jezzails type lists... I still think it's a bit memey. Especially if said "normal" list has a Warpginder and good Gnawhole placement like what happened in my 2nd game.

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Can we talk night runners?

2d6 pregame movement. 80 for 10, 280 for 40. Negligible attacks.

Anyone use these and if so, whats your strat?

Theoretically they could let us deploy more aggressively bc we have a screen we can push out past our territory, possibly even deny objectives and slow down alphas if opponant wants 1st turn.

I was waiting for the horrendous old sculpts to be updated but I recently saw an easy headswap conversion using plague monk heads and shieldless clanrats that doesn't look too shabby.

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33 minutes ago, Verminlord said:

Can we talk night runners?

2d6 pregame movement. 80 for 10, 280 for 40. Negligible attacks.

Anyone use these and if so, whats your strat?

Theoretically they could let us deploy more aggressively bc we have a screen we can push out past our territory, possibly even deny objectives and slow down alphas if opponant wants 1st turn.

I was waiting for the horrendous old sculpts to be updated but I recently saw an easy headswap conversion using plague monk heads and shieldless clanrats that doesn't look too shabby.

I've used them previously to zone out things like KO, CoS and Changehost like you're describing and yeah, they work pretty well. I just had trouble fitting 10-20 into lists and still have 80+ Clanrats on the board with my other 2-3 threats. I feel that 80 is still too steep for them but if your local meta has lots of alpha striking, I 100% think it's worth finding somewhere to fit them in. That all said, I still find that things like KO are still going to be able to kill important units with their long ranges.

For me, I'm looking more at taking 1-2 Grinders instead to keep my own threats off the board... and they cost the same.

Edited by Gwendar
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1 hour ago, Verminlord said:

Can we talk night runners?

2d6 pregame movement. 80 for 10, 280 for 40. Negligible attacks.

Anyone use these and if so, whats your strat?

Theoretically they could let us deploy more aggressively bc we have a screen we can push out past our territory, possibly even deny objectives and slow down alphas if opponant wants 1st turn.

I was waiting for the horrendous old sculpts to be updated but I recently saw an easy headswap conversion using plague monk heads and shieldless clanrats that doesn't look too shabby.

Great unit.

can take objective at the beginning of the first turn pretty easily.

are great meatshields.

and can even be some great lategame objective holders.

but keeping your threads alive seems to get harder and harder.

keeping your threads from a first turn shooting alpha strike Army like the Ko with their overextended range, won’t be easy, even with 1-2units of screening Night-runners.

With the current meta I think we best served with having 1-3Grinders for deep-striking, in our army.

And if the current powercreep keeps up, I’m really interested to see which unit with a range of 72inches will be dominating the meta for the next few month-years

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45 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

With the current meta I think we best served with having 1-3Grinders for deep-striking, in our army.

And if the current powercreep keeps up, I’m really interested to see which unit with a range of 72inches will be dominating the meta for the next few month-years

Not so mention it allows us to do the same thing that's being done to us; deepstrike 1-2 hard-hitting units in range to blast a couple things off the table and then hope you get turn priority. I'm still very keen on trying 12 Fiends; 1 unit with a Grinder and another unit with a Bridge... may try that tonight 🤔

I'm incredibly curious to see how the next couple books look, especially Gargants. With them being alliable into any other army they may really shake things up depending how those rules end up. Having some rules writers be very fluffy (partially our case imo) and others writing insane things that border on me wondering if things were actually play-tested like they said they were means it's pretty unpredictable. Vampires\Soulblight appear to be on the horizon along with Shadow Elves (our first brand new chaos army, if I had to guess) but plenty of other armies are now starting to have aged books (BoC, DoK, Nurgle, LoN, etc) so I kind of think we may get 3rd edition in 2021.

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Hey all, just wanted to drop in and say hi! Also wanted to thank everyone who supported me on FB with my "shadow rats" army on fb last week - (Pic attached so you know what im talking about :) )

I played a tournament at the weekend and  got stomped - really struggling to deploy "correctly" - I lost my bell and bombardier to a deep striking Rogue idol - my brain didn't register the size of the gap as I had a gnaw hole there and also didn't realise the threat range. 

Apart from Dan's recent video on skaven tactics has anyone got any good guides or advice on deployment - tired of losing my support pieces LOL

117236693_607706513516133_7450084769484721979_o.jpg

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10 minutes ago, AOS_Pete said:

Hey all, just wanted to drop in and say hi! Also wanted to thank everyone who supported me on FB with my "shadow rats" army on fb last week - (Pic attached so you know what im talking about :) )

I played a tournament at the weekend and  got stomped - really struggling to deploy "correctly" - I lost my bell and bombardier to a deep striking Rogue idol - my brain didn't register the size of the gap as I had a gnaw hole there and also didn't realise the threat range. 

Apart from Dan's recent video on skaven tactics has anyone got any good guides or advice on deployment - tired of losing my support pieces LOL

117236693_607706513516133_7450084769484721979_o.jpg

Oh man those look cool! Do you have a close up?

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3 hours ago, AOS_Pete said:

Apart from Dan's recent video on skaven tactics has anyone got any good guides or advice on deployment - tired of losing my support pieces LOL

Know your enemy is basically the best trat to keep your support hero alive.

against Ko, you’ll ever want to hide him behind buildings, or if that isn’t possible, just hope you’ll somehow survive enough turns with your clanrats and Stormvermins, to gain victory points through objective grabbing 

the meta we’re in right now, really doesn’t favor us too much, but unlike other armies we still have options to play the same game.

Ps: also you might have to consider using clanrats as a screen, and be certain to block enemy charges with them at al cost

 

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20 hours ago, Verminlord said:

Can we talk night runners?

2d6 pregame movement. 80 for 10, 280 for 40. Negligible attacks.

Anyone use these and if so, whats your strat?

Theoretically they could let us deploy more aggressively bc we have a screen we can push out past our territory, possibly even deny objectives and slow down alphas if opponant wants 1st turn.

I was waiting for the horrendous old sculpts to be updated but I recently saw an easy headswap conversion using plague monk heads and shieldless clanrats that doesn't look too shabby.

Ooooh! I like that conversion idea!

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