Nikobot Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 15 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said: Well the Verminlord Warbringer, is probably one of our best melee options. He might not do as much damage as a Ghoulking on terrorgheist, and may look like a joke in comparison with a healthy Keeper, but with the things-bane artefact and the brutal fury commandtrait, not much will survive his fury. and even without the ct or artefact he will do on average 10-15wounds against a 4+ save, so most small units should pretty easily die against him Errr. i dont think so if my memory serves i did the math on this basic profile and he averaged 5-6 wounds vs 4+ including re-roll wounds and inc his chance to get off his punch dagger crit. the verminlords are left way behind for big monster damage expectations. warpgnaw is probably the best, but im not confident with any of them killing a 5w hero via their basic profile. they also have pretty low theoretical maximum damage, circa 12 damage if you ave their weapon damage of d3., whereas as big monsters now are up around 20-30+ i understand they are versatile and jacks of all trades, but they need to do a bit more in combat for 300pts 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, Nikobot said: warpgnaw is probably the best, but im not confident with any of them killing a 5w hero via their basic profile even with Ghyrstrike this guy would still only get out 5-10 damage before being bracketed to doing 1-2 damage a swing half the time. Before GHB2020 I largely had given up on him in my lists, now he's definitely not got a place. GW really needs to figure out they role they're meant to play or justify why they cost what they do.. because I would love to take the Warpseer every single day of the week if it was priced closer to the 280 that it used to be (if I remember correctly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhan Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 21 minutes ago, Gwendar said: even with Ghyrstrike this guy would still only get out 5-10 damage before being bracketed to doing 1-2 damage a swing half the time. Before GHB2020 I largely had given up on him in my lists, now he's definitely not got a place. GW really needs to figure out they role they're meant to play or justify why they cost what they do.. because I would love to take the Warpseer every single day of the week if it was priced closer to the 280 that it used to be (if I remember correctly). Yeah 280! Totally agree.👌 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikobot Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 i think their role as versatile/utility is great, they just need some more hit for 300pts. verminlords need a spell list now so they have 2 spells to cast. having 1 spell to cast is even worse with max 3 endless now, but with all the unbind power out there now, the endless spell investment is a lot worse for skaven. Warpseer probably worth 280pts due to all his versatility, I think he needs an innate +1 to cast/unbind in this day and age though and that extra known spell from a VL deck, as he hits like a marshmallow, but thats ok as he does lots. Deceiver and Warbringer need to be able to do 9-10 damage vs 4+ reliably without huge artefact investments etc Corruptor is just horrible in combat, needs to be doing something approaching the deceiver/warbringer. id imagine tweaking his MW output, d3 mw on a 6 to hit, and -1 rend would help. Skreech is terrible. needs damage boost/rewrite. i think it would be good if he got a clan keyword each turn for the aspect he takes on. that would give him access to good buffs and versatility. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 18 hours ago, Kramer said: What about 10 night runners. Their pre-game moves means you can set your screen up field a bit more and put a bit more distance between you and deepstriking shooters like KO even if they take turn one That's 120 though and I have access to 110 at most. Maybe 5 gutter runners and a CP though. I'm also considering upgrading the warlock to an arch warlock to make him a little tougher and then buying a CP. Alternatively any of the above combinations plus the bell of doom for backup BS immunity but honestly there's so many better mages running around I'm loathe to count on magic at all and would rather invest in the CP and positioning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 1 hour ago, The Red King said: That's 120 though and I have access to 110 at most. Maybe 5 gutter runners and a CP though. I'm also considering upgrading the warlock to an arch warlock to make him a little tougher and then buying a CP. Alternatively any of the above combinations plus the bell of doom for backup BS immunity but honestly there's so many better mages running around I'm loathe to count on magic at all and would rather invest in the CP and positioning. 10 night runners are 80 pts. What am I missing? Yeah the magic phase, if playing competitive tournaments, seem quite match up dependent now. Haven’t played Skaven in way too long. We went from no proxy 2019, to no more square bases and I really don’t want to rebase my hordes 😂 what would a no magic Skaven army look like for you? 🤔 besides @Skreech Verminking’s 1 million rats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Oh right I thought they came in units of 5. My bad. I've considered a million rat list... well a 140 rat list with double clawlord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Kramer said: besides @Skreech Verminking’s 1 million rats How about 500’000rats instead😜. Jokes aside, how’d ya like this list instead. sure there might be a mage in the midst of the vermintide, but he’ll be just there for his commandtrait and artifact purpose, so no magic is needed. And instead of taking a screaming bell for casting and battleshock immunity purpose, the other altar of our great horned rat can be a good option, especially for it’s combat prowess. LeadersWarlock Bombardier (120)- General- Command Trait: Overseer of Destruction - Artefact: Vigordust Injector - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!Plague Priest on Plague Furnace (200)- Artefact: Liber Bubonicus Clawlord (100)- Mighty Warlord Command Trait: Brutal FuryBattleline40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Stormvermin (400)- HalberdUnits1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)1 x Ratling Gun (60)1 x Ratling Gun (60)1 x Ratling Gun (60)40 x Plague Monks (280)- Foetid BladesBattalionsClaw-horde (180)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 198 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blisterfeet Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 3 hours ago, Nikobot said: i think their role as versatile/utility is great, they just need some more hit for 300pts. verminlords need a spell list now so they have 2 spells to cast. having 1 spell to cast is even worse with max 3 endless now, but with all the unbind power out there now, the endless spell investment is a lot worse for skaven. Warpseer probably worth 280pts due to all his versatility, I think he needs an innate +1 to cast/unbind in this day and age though and that extra known spell from a VL deck, as he hits like a marshmallow, but thats ok as he does lots. Deceiver and Warbringer need to be able to do 9-10 damage vs 4+ reliably without huge artefact investments etc Corruptor is just horrible in combat, needs to be doing something approaching the deceiver/warbringer. id imagine tweaking his MW output, d3 mw on a 6 to hit, and -1 rend would help. Skreech is terrible. needs damage boost/rewrite. i think it would be good if he got a clan keyword each turn for the aspect he takes on. that would give him access to good buffs and versatility. See the thing is with Corruptor and Verminlords in general is in LoCA with a 4 fold blade the guy is an actual huge threat. So reducing prices or warscrolls could be dangerous. I think they might just need more benefits for being with Skaven only armies and your artefacts tweaked. If you have a 'fang toothed blade' that did a SoJ style thing I think that would correct alot of the issues of output. Just my two cents as I play alot of LoCA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blisterfeet Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said: How about 500’000rats instead😜. Jokes aside, how’d ya like this list instead. sure there might be a mage in the midst of the vermintide, but he’ll be just there for his commandtrait and artifact purpose, so no magic is needed. And instead of taking a screaming bell for casting and battleshock immunity purpose, the other altar of our great horned rat can be a good option, especially for it’s combat prowess. LeadersWarlock Bombardier (120)- General- Command Trait: Overseer of Destruction - Artefact: Vigordust Injector - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!Plague Priest on Plague Furnace (200)- Artefact: Liber Bubonicus Clawlord (100)- Mighty Warlord Command Trait: Brutal FuryBattleline40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Blade40 x Stormvermin (400)- HalberdUnits1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)1 x Ratling Gun (60)1 x Ratling Gun (60)1 x Ratling Gun (60)40 x Plague Monks (280)- Foetid BladesBattalionsClaw-horde (180)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 198 I like this list alot. Claw-Horde seems like a popular choice the last few pages since GHG20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 9 minutes ago, Blisterfeet said: list alot. Claw-Horde seems like a popular choice the last few pages since GHG20 Fun fact, it really isn’t. Still the worst battailon in the whole game. but with the points reduction of stormvermins, it is the better option in taking, when your really want to field them. But then again for 180pointsyou could basically take a unit of 40Clanrats for almost the same price, and they will do so much more. If I wanted to really make the game extremely hard for my opponent, I would have probably taken, another unit of 20-40clanrats and another unit of 40plague monks with the convocation of filth battailon, the only not over costed and pretty good battalion in our book. But I love my Stormvermins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basement dweller Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 (edited) On 7/23/2020 at 4:06 AM, Num said: Anybody building Moulder lists on the new GHB2020? @Ahriman @MasterMoulder @Verminlord @basement dweller @Cosmicsheep @Orphen1991 @wakadaka Also @Gwendar do you think that there is no hope for magic anymore? I've got a Balewind Vortex sitting around and enjoyed the times where I threw 6 spells a turn 😢 I have been thinking about it and have about 70 extra points with the changes. I think 10 rat rat screens are a must and will probably do that with the points. I love the point savings for a 40 rat rat mob....but need those screens to ensure your ogres and 40s can get where you want them. Have to think about the warpseer...still think he is worth it for this army due to his battleshock role....but will have to play a bit safer with him as he is more vulnerable than he used to be. Edited July 24, 2020 by basement dweller 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blisterfeet Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 48 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said: Fun fact, it really isn’t. Still the worst battailon in the whole game. but with the points reduction of stormvermins, it is the better option in taking, when your really want to field them. But then again for 180pointsyou could basically take a unit of 40Clanrats for almost the same price, and they will do so much more. If I wanted to really make the game extremely hard for my opponent, I would have probably taken, another unit of 20-40clanrats and another unit of 40plague monks with the convocation of filth battailon, the only not over costed and pretty good battalion in our book. But I love my Stormvermins. So you eluded to something I was wondering. Is convocation of filth worth it? I like Clan Pestillens and wanted to generate the best lineup for me to have fun. I am thinking you need to run a masterclan leader though. Any thoughts you could share? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 9 minutes ago, Blisterfeet said: Is convocation of filth worth It’s definitely worth it. You basically get a 6pus feel no pain for all of your plague monks, within range of the furnace. it may mot sound that great, but when your basically going for like say 160-200plague monks, that 6++ save can be a game changer. Ps: with the new meta, Grey seers aren’t really that much of a thing anymore. why pay 140points worth of magic, when basically everything that he casts gets unbound anyways. Now don’t get me wrong, he’s definitely a great option, and I doubt that there are like only going to be Seraphons or Tzeentch player in your area or at a tournament in total Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blisterfeet Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 12 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said: It’s definitely worth it. You basically get a 6pus feel no pain for all of your plague monks, within range of the furnace. it may mot sound that great, but when your basically going for like say 160-200plague monks, that 6++ save can be a game changer. Ps: with the new meta, Grey seers aren’t really that much of a thing anymore. why pay 140points worth of magic, when basically everything that he casts gets unbound anyways. Now don’t get me wrong, he’s definitely a great option, and I doubt that there are like only going to be Seraphons or Tzeentch player in your area or at a tournament in total I was thinking more jamming Thanquol or Bell so a sea of monks some claws for clearing obj sitters and a Verminlord corruptor and Thanquol as threats/distraction. Then maybe Skitterleap to reposition a blob if monks if you can get it off with the + to cast. Just wondering your thoughts or is it monks > everything else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Blisterfeet said: So reducing prices or warscrolls could be dangerous. Or you know, have GW learn to actually point things differently for different armies. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhan Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 @Skreech Verminking I would drop the claw horde to be honest. 180p gets you a lot of goodies in the skaven range. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikobot Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 9 hours ago, Blisterfeet said: See the thing is with Corruptor and Verminlords in general is in LoCA with a 4 fold blade the guy is an actual huge threat. So reducing prices or warscrolls could be dangerous. I know they are currently popular in that list but It's a Skaven unit that for the most part belongs in a Skaven army and im thinking should be balanced with this in mind. Trying to balance a unit with a focus on an separate accessory type release, that delivers a chaos soup army and with a specific artefact in mind seems the wrong way to go about it and largely impossible to balance anything properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 New batrep time from the TTS tournament this weekend. I have another game today vs OBR and I'll have another tomorrow.. I'll try to do batreps on those as well but depends how I'm feeling. Let me know your thoughts, I always appreciate some good conversation on these games. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sartxac Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) Do you know any competitive Moulder list? Edited July 25, 2020 by Sartxac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Congratz Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 Heyo I'm going to a 1300 point tournement here in 2 months and i'm abit clueless on what i should bring, 1300 isn't really that much I came up with this - but i'm looking for advice and tweaks, so what are your thoughts!? Not that many wounds but it got a bit of everything Spoiler Allegiance: SkaventideLeadersGrey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)- General- Command Trait: Master of Magic- Artefact: Suspicious Stone- Lore of Ruin: Death FrenzyWarlock Bombardier (120)- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!Battleline20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Spear40 x Stormvermin (400)- HalberdArtilleryWarplock Jezzails (420)Total: 1300 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 96 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 Had my game today with OBR, but lost and it really just came down to a single priority roll. I'll post a short batrep tomorrow with my last game once that's done. Anyway, I have a ladder tournament starting next week and I decided to instead run the following. I think I'll take another small break from Skaven and play more Tzeentch\Fyreslayers for a bit (maybe just a month or so). I figured I would just use something ridiculous for this last tournament with them for a bit 😉: Spoiler Allegiance: Skaventide Leaders Arch-Warlock (160) - General - Command Trait: Deranged Inventor - Artefact: Vigordust Injector - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power! Warlock Engineer (110) - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power! Warlock Engineer (110) - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power! Battleline 40 x Clanrats (200) - Rusty Blade 40 x Clanrats (200) - Rusty Blade 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade Units 1 x Doomwheel (150) 1 x Doomwheel (150) 1 x Doomwheel (150) 1 x Doomwheel (150) 20 x Skryre Acolytes (200) 20 x Skryre Acolytes (200) Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs Bell of Doom (40) Extra Command Point (50) Total: 1990 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 1 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 188 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikobot Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 12 hours ago, Gwendar said: Let me know your thoughts, I always appreciate some good conversation on these games. Really enjoyed the report, thanks for providing a great read! Honestly, just looking at the lists I was pretty confident you had him. I thought your list is real solid, I think I'll borrow this one 😁 Multiple good threats, good numbers and had everything needed to dismantle the other build. Glad to see the stormvermin back reporting for duty! Questions : - stormvermin, how'd they feel at their current points? I think skeletons may not have been the toughest foe but not the worst either - acolytes , good at 20? Perfect mix of output and horde discount? They seemed good! - it wasn't a danger this battle, but naked warlocks with your general trait and artefacts.. would you change this against opponents with more long range threat or persist with this list? thanks again! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Nikobot said: Really enjoyed the report, thanks for providing a great read! Honestly, just looking at the lists I was pretty confident you had him. I thought your list is real solid, I think I'll borrow this one 😁 Multiple good threats, good numbers and had everything needed to dismantle the other build. Glad to see the stormvermin back reporting for duty! Questions : - stormvermin, how'd they feel at their current points? I think skeletons may not have been the toughest foe but not the worst either - acolytes , good at 20? Perfect mix of output and horde discount? They seemed good! - it wasn't a danger this battle, but naked warlocks with your general trait and artefacts.. would you change this against opponents with more long range threat or persist with this list? thanks again! Thanks, glad people are enjoying them 😉1. I think they're good but I'm not super crazy about them; I still really think they need to be closer to 360. The issue I'm having is that I can almost never get the Clawlord in range to give them +1 attack unless he charges as well, but I've made a few long charges with them which puts them out of range. Even with 2 attacks they're pretty solid, but at that point they're actually doing less than 40 Monks on average. I just don't know that I can justify that extra 100 points to maybe get them to do another 7 damage on average over monks.. and I can bring 80 of them for only 60 more points compared to a Clawlord + SV. In my OBR game, 27 of them got 30 wounds through and they only took 3 damage after saves so... the -1 rend doesn't always tend to help as much as some make out.2. I would still take them at 25-30 if I could, but since they're maxed out at 20 now I have no choice.. and I think they still work fine. They 1-shot those Skeletons no problem, but only did 19 damage to a unit of 6 Stalkers in my OBR game thanks to rolling a bunch of 1-2's on damage so they can be swingy. They absolutely need to stand behind some Clanrats until you can open up and let them go into something, being as fragile as they are however you gotta make sure they won't get charged or shot right back. These first 2 games were perfect for them since I have no threat of them getting shot\MW'd off the board.3. I only take all-comers lists so no, I wouldn't change anything to tailor against a specific matchup; hell I don't even adapt to my local meta 😅. Bottom line is that we just aren't super great against long range MW's\shooting due to the ability to shoot off these heroes (hence why I've suggested Skaven have the 40k rule to not allow heroes to be targeted at all unless they're the nearest model). Losing those Engineers would kill a 6 Stormfiend list, but when I'm only running 200 points of Acolytes it isn't as big of a hit if I lose them. Unbuffed Acolytes can put out more damage than unbuffed Fiends unless you charge them into something. Of course.. the last list I proposed is running 2x20 with 4 DW's just for the hell of it. If I can get MMMWP and Deranged on 2 different units then it's pretty great. The objective with that list is that it can be very aggressive or passive depending on the matchup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 Next 2 up. Went 1-2 again unfortunately.. all explained in the reports. Needless to say I'm happy to be taking a break from Skaven (aside from 1 or so a week for the next tournament) and focusing on something that plays a bit differently like Tzeentch or Fyreslayers. People seem excited about the 4 Doomwheel list so I'll probably be testing it out some this week. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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