AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Skreech Verminking]

Oh right we forgot to mention the battailons.

I personally hope that some or most of them get a 80-100points decrease.

 

[Laststand]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Oh right we forgot to mention the battailons.

I personally hope that some or most of them get a 80-100points decrease.

 

Or they allow the Skryre battalions to be taken individually rather than as part of the super battalion that means everything is very expensive.

[Woodhell]

1 hour ago, Laststand said:

Or they allow the Skryre battalions to be taken individually rather than as part of the super battalion that means everything is very expensive.

That would be a key change for us clearly ! They are good ones like the canon one or the one of the doomwheel. I would love to use those without the extra taxes.

[Gwendar]

8 hours ago, TheWilddog said:

@Gwendar's point reductions look good, especially the Rat Ogres. I would love to see them come down. They are such a cool and fluffy unit but they have been sitting on my shelf for all of AOS. 

I think the Doomwheel could come down 20, it has been gradually creeping toward playability.  

The Hellpit Abomination should be lower, monsters are just so underused right now. I am not sure it would be run at 200.

I've been using 2 to decent effect, but I think to be more of an "Assassin" type unit then they need to be able to move across 5 wound models to do MW's and I don't think that's too much to ask.

I think 200 would be nice for the HPA as you could more readily stomach taking 2 which is what I think you really need to do with them; 1 just doesn't have enough staying power. Rolling low on 2d6 is far more common than the 4d6 of the Doomwheel which also hurts it being able to get into a unit and do much.

6 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

I mostly agree with your thoughts.

although I wish gw wouldn’t forget the eshin side of the skaven.

I feel that anything with monkey rat sculpts is the least likely to get reductions simply because no one wants to buy those horrendous models. On the flip side, maybe they go down to purge their stock to make way for new stuff next year 😉

5 hours ago, gronnelg said:

WLV down to 80 points?

Issue with that is it's used by KO more than us now. It's left a bad taste in people's mouths and I still hear so many people say they wish it was just gone from the game despite the range nerf and the fact that it can literally do like 2 MW's a turn sometimes and not just obliterate the army.

The range nerf prevented it from being cast right into your deployment using Thanquol on a +3 which was too strong but.. I mean look at Teclis, Kroak, HH + Comet. I just don't see them lowering it although I would love to be wrong.

[Laststand]

13 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

KO

@GwendarHow do kharadron overlords use a skaventide spell? Or am i reading that wrong? 

 

[Coyote]

KO have a thing where they can trap any endless spell in a bottle and use it.

As for point changes, in the short term following the previous few years of examples I don’t expect points decreases or unit rewrites.

We could use an overhaul on a lot of frankly underpowered units (looking at you catapult) - but not this month and maybe not this year.  I don’t know if GW has had enough tournament data to evaluate and frankly some of our good Skaven players continue to hold their own in the tournaments.

Maybe the easiest thing is to target our successful Skaven players and take their armies away so we tank the Tournament scene, then the Grey Seer on Bell and Verminlords can drop down to about 80 points each.

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Coyote said:

Maybe the easiest thing is to target our successful Skaven players and take their armies away so we tank the Tournament scene, then the Grey Seer on Bell and Verminlords can drop down to about 80 points each.

If I’m being hold off from participating in the next local tournament, I’ll at least know who’s back needs a stabbing 😜

Edited June 29, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[Coyote]

3 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

If I’m being hold off from participating in the next local tournament, I’ll at least know who’s back needs a stabbing 😜

You’ll find me consistently on the bottom tables in Minnesota, so I don’t think you have much to fear 🐁🐀

[Skreech Verminking]

2 hours ago, Coyote said:

You’ll find me consistently on the bottom tables in Minnesota, so I don’t think you have much to fear 🐁🐀

The comeptition, from below is something you have to fear-fear much-much more!, then a competition that is sitting over you.

it’s much-much easier to stab-kill your opponent from the back, then from the front.

especially when they don’t know who you-you are.

Yes-yes

 

[Kramer]

12 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Oh right we forgot to mention the battailons.

I personally hope that some or most of them get a 80-100points decrease.

 

I honestly expect battalions in general to get changed/more levelled. 
But I also expect the command point/artefacts award to change. Maybe set amount per point level. And maybe even (hopefully) only a bonus for setting up first to the first turn roll off. 

So you then are only paying for the function of the battalion and a slight boost to the chance of first turn. Instead of being shoehorned into taking them. 
it’s a limiting factor in list building and diversity.  

Guaranteed choosing who goes first turn one due to drops, aka having better battalions, is the only rule I kinda hate in AoS. 

[Coyote]

The rule I hate? Double turns. 

[Woodhell]

7 hours ago, Coyote said:

The rule I hate? Double turns. 

Actually I was kinda liking it until a Tzeench player starts the game by a double turn with flamers... He washed me of m'y threats with that ans puple Sun... Not my most optimised play either but i really felt it will be hard against that

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Woodhell said:

Actually I was kinda liking it until a Tzeench player starts the game by a double turn with flamers... He washed me of m'y threats with that ans puple Sun... Not my most optimised play either but i really felt it will be hard against that

Well there is a friend of mine, who consistently steals the second turn from someone.

I’ve never seen somebody deny him that double turn, which is kinda funny.

And he plays Armies like Ironjawz and flesh eaters, which heavily benefit from taking the double turn

[Cosmicsheep]

I'm intrigued by these new rules for multiplayer battles. Within my group of friends we often find ourselves with an odd number of players and made up a set of house rules regarding 3 way battles.

The new GHB seems to be more about teaming up against a common enemy. I did have to laugh at the chart detailing who can form a coalition with who. Skaven have no battle forged colations, not even with other Skaven. Sounds perfectly Skaveny to me

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/29/the-generals-handbook-2020-whats-in-the-book/#gallery-6

[Skreech Verminking]

56 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

I'm intrigued by these new rules for multiplayer battles. Within my group of friends we often find ourselves with an odd number of players and made up a set of house rules regarding 3 way battles.

The new GHB seems to be more about teaming up against a common enemy. I did have to laugh at the chart detailing who can form a coalition with who. Skaven have no battle forged colations, not even with other Skaven. Sounds perfectly Skaveny to me

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/29/the-generals-handbook-2020-whats-in-the-book/#gallery-6

we are true children of the horned rat.

what better way then to backstab your most trusted-loyal allies.

Yes-yes

 

[michu]

Eshin? Eshin!

[Skreech Verminking]

11 minutes ago, michu said:

Eshin? Eshin!

Something telling me that this is indeed something for the skaven.

although I have no idea what it could possibly be

[Gwendar]

13 hours ago, Coyote said:

The rule I hate? Double turns. 

6 hours ago, Woodhell said:

Actually I was kinda liking it until a Tzeench player starts the game by a double turn with flamers... He washed me of m'y threats with that ans puple Sun... Not my most optimised play either but i really felt it will be hard against that

I've always been on the fence with it.. but mostly against it. I feel one of the easiest ways to keep it in the game but also try to appease both sides is by somehow introducing +'s to the rolls, or spending CP to re-roll. I'm sure we've all heard every manner of tweaking it so who knows what they would do or if they would even do it. If turns were always back and forth it would fundamentally change how it's played and that could be good\bad. It would certainly change lists across the board. Keeping it but giving people a chance to steal it\get +'s to the roll could be one solution.

Things like Flamers\Salamanders\KO ships teleporting in front of you and removing units that can be hard to zone out combined with board-wide (or nearly boardwide with spellportal) spells from Kroak, Teclis or Kairos\LoC just isn't a good play experience for casual or competitive environments. At the same time, I try to remember when we had the old Gautfyre that would just annihilate your opponent T1 😅

[Coyote]

Double turn is Arbitrary.  We shouldn’t be in a position to win or lose based on getting 2 turns in a row.  

Every game we “win” with a double turn should have an asterisk * next to it.

GW thinks “ok then don’t use it” but it’s not as easy as that.  Most of us don’t have groups or places we can just throw down at 4 nights a week or buddies we constantly hang out with.

I struggle to play 12 games a year, most people I know play les than that.  

So the rules we have, that’s what we play with.

[Gwendar]

9 minutes ago, Coyote said:

GW thinks “ok then don’t use it”

There's a small group of more casual people at our local GW that don't use the double turn, and they once had a competitive league running that made it up to the players whether or not to use it and it was encouraged by the management not to. Since I strictly play competitive I just always run with it since all tournaments use it... unless I'm doing a teaching\casual game with someone who vehemently hates it then I don't mind.

Tactics would change quite a bit obviously and I think it could lead to more cases of shooting and far cagier play unless you're an army that can AFF\AFL. Overall I'm fine with it.. I just feel the majority is heavily in favor of it with no changes. I just try to think of it from a neutral point of view in which you can try to snatch it from someone who has potential to get it instead of it being solely on a single dice roll.

[Darkhan]

2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Something telling me that this is indeed something for the skaven.

although I have no idea what it could possibly be

I bet it's DoK.

[Skreech Verminking]

1 minute ago, Darkhan said:

I bet it's DoK.

How dare you mention these words in our community! (😂)

Jokes aside, you might be right, but hoping for some skaven isn’r wrong either, especially when it reminds you of a dagger that kinda fits the skaven, scrap metal weapons esthetics.

[Skreech Verminking]

Oh and since we are already talking about the skaven, how do you guys like my fluff posioned wind themed Skaven army for the upcoming tournament.

it almost has 200bodies!😜

Edited June 30, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[Darkhan]

14 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Oh and since we are already talking about the skaven, how do you guys like my fluff posioned wind themed Skaven army for the upcoming tournament.

it almost has 200bodies!😜

Looks epic good sir! Wanted to go 3 doomwheels, but after painting 1....you know the feel😂

[Skreech Verminking]

2 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

Looks epic good sir! Wanted to go 3 doomwheels, but after painting 1....you know the feel😂

Well I have painted them unassembled and assembled.

they are pretty easy to paint unassembled, and you just get the feeling of wanting to do another 12.

On the other hand you’ll only paint an assembled doomwheel ones!, before you start screaming in agony and cursing your live with horrendous words, not even the most curious teenager would dare say.