AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Malakithe]

@Skreech Verminking what about those games where you need more heroes?

[Skreech Verminking]

3 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

@Skreech Verminking what about those games where you need more heroes?

Easy, 

you screen them of the objective.

let your opponent have fun to kill your clanrats till round 5 until he gets to one of those objective.

Or blame the lose onto one of your clanrats should he choose to take the first turn instead of giving it to you.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[Malakithe]

5 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

blame the lose onto one of your clanrats

Solid choice here.

[Skreech Verminking]

So I have a lot to do, when it comes down to painting.

2full fletched army list project all part of the skaven faction, kinda gives me a ton to paint.

Thankfully I managed to get a test model for my newly converted acolytes, and was wondering what your thoughts were on it.

[Malakithe]

With the upcoming generals handbook whats the points predictions? 

[Darkhan]

34 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

With the upcoming generals handbook whats the points predictions? 

Stormvermin from 450p to 380p for 40x😬

[Malakithe]

2 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

Stormvermin from 450p to 380p for 40x😬

I also have dreams my friend 😭

[Skreech Verminking]

59 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

With the upcoming generals handbook whats the points predictions? 

Predictions and hope or mostly hope and wishlisting:

stormvermins:20/40 for 160/320
 

clanrats: 20/60 for 120/300

night runners: 10/40 For 60/220

giant rats: 10/40 for 50/180

doom flayer weapon team: either in units of 3/9 for 80/200 or 1 for 20p

warplightning cannon: 160

clawcatapult:140

Warlock engineer:90

warlock bombardier:100

clawlord:90

deathmaster:60

plague priest:60

plague censer bearers:5/20 for 40/150

doomwheel:150

warplightning vortex: 80

rat ogres: 2/8 for 80/200

 

am I certain that this will happen.

no sadly no.

I wish I knew what could be coming.

I’m just hoping that they won’t start again with only increases and no decreases in points just because a certain Verminlord is better used in the Be’lakor allegiance instead of skaventide

Edited May 22, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[michu]

They really should differentiate point costs between units under different allegiances, like LoN Black Coach and NH Nighthaunt.

Edited May 22, 2020 by michu

[Gwendar]

I don't think I can add much to what I want to see come down.. I feel we have had a lot of reactionary nerfs over the months which may be a reason they've been so keen to keep Stormvermin priced so high. I feel like a lot of things were "kept safe" and points were never looked at so as to not cause some of us to take a couple of podium placements at tournaments 😅.. a main culprit of that to me is obviously Stormvermin and Rat Ogres. 

I mean, people are still calling for the WLV to have never been created, when I don't really see it as being much more powerful than plenty other things knocking around.. and the CV is still difficult to cope with unless Thanquol is casting it. The range being what it was I agreed was far too strong, but I feel with it being halved it's still priced correctly at 100 points.. if you lower that anymore I think you will find a lot of people crying out; especially with it being used by other armies more and more. If anything on that warscroll changes for the worse, that's when you need to start lowering the cost.

I'll just agree with most of what @Skreech Verminking has said but I have a feeling we won't see Stormvermin go down that low, as much as I would like for that to be the case. At the same time, they do have a habit of making some drastic points changes and it could be a "way to sell more Stormvermin models".. I think I'm just soured by how they've stayed so high for so long. The bottom line is that points decreases would be great for things like Rat Ogres and they would be taken far more often... but for a large majority of our units that wouldn't be enough and they're really just in need of warscroll re-writes which I doubt we'll get for the foreseeable future.

[Malakithe]

12 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

hope or mostly hope

A wise man once told me 'hope is the first step on the road to disappointment' 

[Skreech Verminking]

3 hours ago, Malakithe said:

A wise man once told me 'hope is the first step on the road to disappointment' 

Yeah I mean at this point we can basically put disappointment into different levels.

should we get another points increase, I think most of us will be “more then just extremely disappointed”
 

with a small points reduction for just 1-2Units, we can be considered to be: “ more-more more disappointed

With a Small points reduction for most of our units but in a way where Stormvermins still cost over 400points, we can be considered to be: “ very disappointed.

With a good points-reduction, but not enough to get our stormvermins Or other useless unit to that points value they actually need we can be considered “disappointed

[Firefrog]

It's still the year of the rat, so hope is good!

But we'll probably get point bumps for all Verminlords and Stormfiends, and they'll lower the cost of something like... warpgrinders.

On another note, last time I played Skaven was with 2x 40 clanrats and 1x 40 stormvermin against Ironjawz. It wasn't fun, the power creep is so intense, 6 boars ripped through 40 clanrats like they were nothing. I remember the time my opponent was all, "f*ck me, I have to grind through 40 of those?".

[Skreech Verminking]

4 minutes ago, Firefrog said:

It's still the year of the rat, so hope is good!

But we'll probably get point bumps for all Verminlords and Stormfiends, and they'll lower the cost of something like... warpgrinders.

On another note, last time I played Skaven was with 2x 40 clanrats and 1x 40 stormvermin against Ironjawz. It wasn't fun, the power creep is so intense, 6 boars ripped through 40 clanrats like they were nothing. I remember the time my opponent was all, "f*ck me, I have to grind through 40 of those?".

Yeah, there aren’t too many units left who can’t kill 40clanrats in a turn.

although 60seems to be the magical number today, with which most units will struggle A lot

[Gwendar]

I feel Clanrats have a bit of an identity crisis in that regard. They want to be used as chaff that can stick around at least 2 turns but when so many units can easily put out 30+ damage in 1 turn it's just not possible.. especially when it comes to alpha strike shooting armies that you largely can't outrange unless you get lucky rolls with Night Runners. Even then I feel you'll be playing at a disadvantage with deployment or they have an opportunity to get a double and it's all for nothing.

Having 60 as an option would definitely help with this, but I feel the only reasonable way to play them currently is to ensure they charge a unit to tag it and minimize pile-ins. Even then, I've had 5-6 HGB get in range (anything with 2"-3" range this works out less against) and kill 15 Clanrats.. the double pile in meant he ended up killing the whole unit for the most part, even with only 1/4 of his unit getting in. Of course, then there's shooting armies, who can shoot you at full strength regardless.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Gwendar

[Darkhan]

4 hours ago, Firefrog said:

It's still the year of the rat, so hope is good!

But we'll probably get point bumps for all Verminlords and Stormfiends, and they'll lower the cost of something like... warpgrinders.

On another note, last time I played Skaven was with 2x 40 clanrats and 1x 40 stormvermin against Ironjawz. It wasn't fun, the power creep is so intense, 6 boars ripped through 40 clanrats like they were nothing. I remember the time my opponent was all, "f*ck me, I have to grind through 40 of those?".

A third boost to verminlords!? If they do that I'm shelfing Skaven. They have already increased them TWICE, and it's not like that did us any good. Same with stormfiends, decreased the unit size from 9 to 6. If they increase them as well......i'm going OBR/DoK full time. /rant

 

PS: I actually won a game agains orruks with 40 stormvermin😂

Edited May 23, 2020 by Darkhan

[Skreech Verminking]

57 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

1)A third boost to verminlords!? If they do that I'm shelfing Skaven. They have already increased them TWICE, and it's not like that did us any good. Same with stormfiends, decreased the unit size from 9 to 6. If they increase them as well......i'm going OBR/DoK full time. /rant

 

2)PS: I actually won a game agains orruks with 40 stormvermin😂

1) or we could do it the Good old skaven way.

swarm the HQ of Games workshop.

take over their business plan.

change the name of the game to age of the great horned rat.

Reawaken the end times with the skaven ruling all 13Realms.

Change the release from new primaris space marines to new skaven models,

and then we decrease the cost of our beloved units.

who’s with me!?

 

2) That’s great.

Although the biggest weakness of most Ironjawz players is basically The missing intellect.

most seem to literally put their whole army in front of you and charge them in, mostly resolving in your screen being lost in battle.

But should they fail to get the double turn, it usually ends with them loosing.

But should they get it, there isn’t mich going to save you from a demise.

So yeah playing as Ironjawz or against them will more then often end the game on turn 2.

although the winner usually get’s decided with a l single dice roll.

 

[Coyote]

Random thought - Deathmaster- I think easiest way to give a little fix to our Ninja is to allow Hidden Killer to activate in Hero phase instead of Combat Phase - that way DM can deploy with a unit and Surprise! be able to Gnawhole them too in Movement phase of same turn . Or pop out of unit and still be able to Shoot in same turn.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Coyote

[Gwendar]

4 minutes ago, Coyote said:

Deathmaster

I would honestly like  to see it get something similar\the same as the Tenebrael Shards abilities: on a 4+ (or maybe 2-3+) remove and setup within 3" of an enemy and it gets +1 to hit for the rest of the turn. Having the 8" move to get out of combat (and behind some Clanrat screens) if you slay a model works out well too.

Of course you would see a very sharp rise in the use of SoJ but I still think within reason. Everyone uses the Corruptor for this type of role because of the 10 attacks and extra MW's on top of being able to RR all hits; the Deathmaster doesn't have any of that going for him would be an ever looming, low cost threat.

[Darkhan]

Question for the lore gods on the thread:) 
Why is there no Skaven in 40k?

[Coyote]

Same reason as no Tyranid or Necrons in AoS.

As for Deathmaster, that’s just a minor errata without having to make a points change.  I’m all about more usefulness - like a spell, or mortals (the Deathmaster should be * all about * mortals), but they’d raise the points to like 140 or something ridiculous.

[Skreech Verminking]

31 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

Question for the lore gods on the thread:) 
Why is there no Skaven in 40k?

Well, there has been a mention in how the skaven were the first few who were able to contact alien elfish lifeform back in the days of the old world

although They couldn’t believe that there was something out there (especially elves) who somehow contacted them back, they immediately destroyed their self proclaimed doomsday radio and never talked again of it.

so I guess you could say that they were too scared to go out there and find out how those elf's contacted them back.

oh right and for those who didn’t understand what I was just talking about,

Games workshop has often hinted back in the days of the old that the old world where the skaven ones ruled the under empire, was a part of the giant multiverse of and somewhat part of the entirety of the 40k system.

 

[Darkhan]

10 minutes ago, Coyote said:

Same reason as no Tyranid or Necrons in AoS.

As for Deathmaster, that’s just a minor errata without having to make a points change.  I’m all about more usefulness - like a spell, or mortals (the Deathmaster should be * all about * mortals), but they’d raise the points to like 140 or something ridiculous.

No Necrons?;p Got OBR.

[Coyote]

Take this with many grains of salt.., Many real life years ago it was said by some that WHFB might have happened after 40k.  The exploded warp gates warp above both the North and South poles may have been been placed by the Old Ones - the same ones that terraformed the planet and created their servants the Slann.  The C’tan were the Old Ones that made the Lizardmen.  

[GrimDork]

8 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Games workshop has often hinted back in the days of the old that the old world where the skaven ones ruled the under empire, was a part of the giant multiverse of and somewhat part of the entirety of the 40k system.

 

I seem to recall that they hinted that Sigmar was one of the missing space marine primarchs, whose pod landed on a medieval planet. IIRC that was in the rogue trader book? and by the time 2nd edition came out they had scrapped the idea.