AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Gwendar]

29 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

I think Rat Ogres are one of our most under estimated units. 

I don't disagree that they can't be made decent but I still believe they are grossly overcosted by comparison. Take a max unit of 8 for example: 4 of them get to shoot and lets say all 8 make it into combat due to the smaller bases.. this is also assuming they have +1 to hit from the MM so total cost of this is 500 points (or 460 if you just want Packmasters and not have the 5+ resummon ability).

They're doing significantly less than a unit of 6 fully buffed and "half buffed" (meaning no MMMWP) Fiends. For 120 more points, 6 Fiends will get you 38 wounds on a 4+ save that is a threat at range and in melee. They don't get the possibility of returning on a 5+, but that isn't something I want to rely on anyway, but that's just me personally. Even without any buffs, the Fiends still pull about the same and that's with only 4 of them being in combat rather than all 6 due to the larger bases (so, 2 Clubbing Blows and 2 Shock Gauntlets).

So, 8 Ogres + MM = 500 points, while 6 Fiends + Engineer = 620 for a rather substantial difference. Even if the Engineer gets killed, 6 Fiends are 20 points more to do about the same with better stats. Again, no return on a 5+ and "worse bravery".. but I find that I tend to always keep CP's spare when it comes to playing Skaven to ensure nothing is running.. or I have the Bell.

 

Now.. that all said, if you do run the Rabid Crown, you can bump them up significantly (~32 damage vs 4+) and it wouldn't be much farther off than needing to have an Engineer with Vigordust and a Spark. I dunno.. I'm not saying they're bad. The issue with Skaven is that we have so many things that are far better in Skryre than we do anywhere else and that really is a problem.

[Cosmicsheep]

You’re right of course, on paper they look much inferior to the fiends. I often take 2 units of 4 rat ogres as part of a Moulder oriented list and it just feels like they do more damage than my fiends ever do. Maybe it’s because my fiends tend to get targeted fairly quickly whereas the rat ogres can often get into combat at full strength.  So this  comes back to the point about playing less obvious units for that small element of surprise, which does have some merits if only at a local level. Or maybe it’s just because I’m moving away from fiends in general and always had a penchant for Moulder 😁

[Gwendar]

Well hey, I've always disliked Moulder and was always far more into Eshin and Skryre.. so my bias is of course coming into play 😉

But nah, you're definitely right with it going to back to what @Skreech Verminking was saying. Just for someone like me, it's hard to look past point values and optimum setups is all I guess... I have a handful of experienced tournament players around here who know what my army can do and introducing Ogres into the mix in place of Fiends would tell them they're as much a threat. That would work out alright if I could fill the list with other, more threatening things.. but like I said, a lot of our stuff is over-costed, quite frankly.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Gwendar

[fishwaffle2232]

Been a while since I checked out the thread due to a bit of a hobby slump with Covid, but jeeze there are some interesting list ideas floating around in here. 

I just finished listened to dan brewer as well as bitchparty's updated review of the book and its got me looking at some other options that I hadn't even considered. 

I'm glad to hear that there may be a place for Thanquol in the meta, I never quite got the behind the idea of HPA, as any switched on player would knock off a few wounds to drop its bracket and the 2d6 movement was hard for me to get past. 400 points is a lot for thanquol but you get a solid caster, hes relatively tanky, his chaff removable is unbeatable and he is a boss fluff wise and model wise. Looking like i might pull the trigger on this guy. 

Im really interested in the gnawbomb type lists too. There seems to be a lot of potential for movement shenanigans and objective grabbing even outside of the hey how ya going here's 6 buffed stormfiends, a deciever and 40 clanrats in your flank, combo. 

Being able to bring on 20 gutter runners on a table edge, having teleport options with two skitterleaps, and being able to have 40 clan rats pop up on an objective, seems like it could be a lot of fun but also great for board control. Even the doomwheel seems to fit into a list like this really well. 

People are used to the standard meta lists, as has already been mentioned. So I think moving forward with crazy stuff like this could catch people off guard. Can't wait for iso to settle so I can get some games in!

[Coyote]

Has anybody put together a list of 6-10 units of 10 Skrye Acolytes or the same - 10ish units of 10 Monks?  (10ish Bringers if the Word on the table for free mortals depending on positioning.)  

I’m modding old GW models into my * UNDERTAKING * and thinking about swarming the field with MSU lists.  

Feel free to talk sense into me.

[Skreech Verminking]

3 hours ago, Coyote said:

Has anybody put together a list of 6-10 units of 10 Skrye Acolytes or the same - 10ish units of 10 Monks?  (10ish Bringers if the Word on the table for free mortals depending on positioning.)  

I’m modding old GW models into my * UNDERTAKING * and thinking about swarming the field with MSU lists.  

Feel free to talk sense into me.

Not really no, but I was thinking of putting a unit of 12jezzails underground, with a warp grinder team.

the risk is high, considering that you could loose 3whole jezzails, but considering how many units tent to outrange our snipers, or just kill them instantly Taking the risk might be a better choice.

 

[Darkhan]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Not really no, but I was thinking of putting a unit of 12jezzails underground, with a warp grinder team.

the risk is high, considering that you could loose 3whole jezzails, but considering how many units tent to outrange our snipers, or just kill them instantly Taking the risk might be a better choice.

 

This sound epic😄

[Skreech Verminking]

47 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

This sound epic😄

Yeah it does.

so i guess I’ll be trying out this instead of the other list.

it might be interesting:

Allegiance: Skaventide
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector  
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Deranged Inventor  
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: Chain Warp Lightning

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade

Units
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
10 x Night Runners (80)
20 x Skryre Acolytes (240)
20 x Skryre Acolytes (240)

Artillery
Warplock Jezzails (560)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Bell of Doom (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 187

[Gwendar]

9 hours ago, fishwaffle2232 said:

Been a while since I checked out the thread due to a bit of a hobby slump with Covid, but jeeze there are some interesting list ideas floating around in here. 

I just finished listened to dan brewer as well as bitchparty's updated review of the book and its got me looking at some other options that I hadn't even considered. 

I'm glad to hear that there may be a place for Thanquol in the meta, I never quite got the behind the idea of HPA, as any switched on player would knock off a few wounds to drop its bracket and the 2d6 movement was hard for me to get past. 400 points is a lot for thanquol but you get a solid caster, hes relatively tanky, his chaff removable is unbeatable and he is a boss fluff wise and model wise. Looking like i might pull the trigger on this guy. 

Im really interested in the gnawbomb type lists too. There seems to be a lot of potential for movement shenanigans and objective grabbing even outside of the hey how ya going here's 6 buffed stormfiends, a deciever and 40 clanrats in your flank, combo. 

Being able to bring on 20 gutter runners on a table edge, having teleport options with two skitterleaps, and being able to have 40 clan rats pop up on an objective, seems like it could be a lot of fun but also great for board control. Even the doomwheel seems to fit into a list like this really well. 

People are used to the standard meta lists, as has already been mentioned. So I think moving forward with crazy stuff like this could catch people off guard. Can't wait for iso to settle so I can get some games in!

Yeah, they definitely made me get out of some habits I was stuck in, though I don't 100% agree with everything. It definitely sparked me to grab a Warpgnaw to try out as well as fitting Thanquol into more lists... he alone would be a direct counter to these 20 man HGB units which shores up that matchup.

I was big on maxed Gutter Runner units at release, but quickly stopped after they didn't do much for me for 2 games; back then I gave up a lot easier if a tactic didn't work immediately 😅. I'm definitely all in with you all about finding an anti-meta and looking into different options.. for example I'm big on WLC's now over Jezzails, however running 2 Doomwheels also has about the same chance to kill those support hero's due to the MW output from running something over + charging as well as the pretty decent shots; all for 160 points. If they die, oh well, as long as they got their job done. I've been throwing something together with Gutter Runners and Doomwheels combined with a frontline threat (or 2) to split focus and I'm really into it... may even spark me into trying TTS so I can test it.
 

8 hours ago, Coyote said:

Has anybody put together a list of 6-10 units of 10 Skrye Acolytes or the same - 10ish units of 10 Monks?  (10ish Bringers if the Word on the table for free mortals depending on positioning.)  

I’m modding old GW models into my * UNDERTAKING * and thinking about swarming the field with MSU lists.  

Feel free to talk sense into me.

There just isn't really any point in bringing MSU units with Skaven due to Overwhelming Mass (and Strength in Number to a lesser extent.. generally you have BS immunity somewhere) and combing that with cheap units like Monks is pretty much necessary.

Of course, things like Night Runners, Clanrats and Gutter Runners could be used MSU, It's just that they would have a different role.

 

5 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Not really no, but I was thinking of putting a unit of 12jezzails underground, with a warp grinder team.

the risk is high, considering that you could loose 3whole jezzails, but considering how many units tent to outrange our snipers, or just kill them instantly Taking the risk might be a better choice.

 

Have you been teleporting them through Gnawholes? I find that 90% of the time when I put my Gnawholes on the middle-ish sides of the table that they're in range and visibility of whatever they need to shoot. It's a reason to use Night Runners as well to give them a screen if you intend to do that T1.

[Darkhan]

You also just run a clanrat screen forward for a minimum of 9" inches if you a roll a 1, and pop them behind them:)

My opponents always place heroes well out of jezzails range, yes gnawholes helps and sometimes renders you without a proper screen, but the warpgrinder tactics allows them to even make a easier well solid hit, with a proper screen imo:) 
 

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Gwendar said:

Have you been teleporting them through Gnawholes? I find that 90% of the time when I put my Gnawholes on the middle-ish sides of the table that they're in range and visibility of whatever they need to shoot. It's a reason to use Night Runners as well to give them a screen if you intend to do that T1.

Well I was actually thinking if giving them the chance to survive the first turn against a incredible shooting alpha strike army like those flying duardins or the very much hatet  bonereaper catapult.

Or just basically plain tzeentch and seraphon.

it’ll keep them alive a bit more longer and will give you the chance  to at least kill a big target or a few smaller heroes, before they instantly die.

although it’s a bit risky considering yoy could loose 3jezzails, i’d rather have 9left then non at all.

in any other matchups, i’d probably just use the clanrats underground to protect the jezzails from a charge after They’d popped up through one of my many gnawholes

Edited May 20, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[Skreech Verminking]

Ah right there is actually another list I’m thinking of trying out, as soon as I get my Verminlords back.

it’s probably nobody really considered using any time soon, and probably most of us are already enough tired of painting clanrats.

so not sure if this’ll ever see the table at an event:

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Verminlord Warpseer (320)
- General
- Command Trait: Verminous Valour  
- Artefact: Suspicious Stone  

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)
Emerald Lifeswarm (50)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 264
 

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, Darkhan said:

You also just run a clanrat screen forward for a minimum of 9" inches if you a roll a 1, and pop them behind them:)

My opponents always place heroes well out of jezzails range, yes gnawholes helps and sometimes renders you without a proper screen, but the warpgrinder tactics allows them to even make a easier well solid hit, with a proper screen imo:) 
 

Sure, that's an option as well.. Just saying Nightrunners are a bit more reliable to get there and stand in front of the Jezzails.

My opponents do too, but in most battleplans placing those Gnawholes will net you a gigantic chunk of the board.. and if they decide to turtle themselves into 1 little section then they're already at a disadvantage. 
 

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

although it’s a bit risky considering yoy could loose 3jezzails, i’d rather have 9left then non at all.

I think the worry is that to get them positioned against someone hiding then you would be out of range of -insert BS immunity ability here- and suddenly losing 3 Jezzails could turn into losing nearly all of them in 1 go. I just don't find it worth the risk when Gnawholes tend to work well enough in most cases (though I know you're also talking specifically about keeping them hidden from things like KO ships shooting them off the table).

Jezzails for me are something that do work over time; not something I find needs to be within an alpha strike like the Longstrike's, AKA better Jezzails can do. Not saying it's a bad idea or anything, I just worry about losing all 1/4th of my list if something goes wrong\they get put in range of their guns. Of course, if you skitterleap a hero to be near them (or can throw out a Bell\Warpseer and his immense range) then you mitigate this. 

[Skreech Verminking]

6 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Allegiance: Skaventide
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector  
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Deranged Inventor  
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: Chain Warp Lightning

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade

Units
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
10 x Night Runners (80)
20 x Skryre Acolytes (240)
20 x Skryre Acolytes (240)

Artillery
Warplock Jezzails (560)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Bell of Doom (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 187

 

8 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Sure, that's an option as well.. Just saying Nightrunners are a bit more reliable to get there and stand in front of the Jezzails.

My opponents do too, but in most battleplans placing those Gnawholes will net you a gigantic chunk of the board.. and if they decide to turtle themselves into 1 little section then they're already at a disadvantage. 
 

I think the worry is that to get them positioned against someone hiding then you would be out of range of -insert BS immunity ability here- and suddenly losing 3 Jezzails could turn into losing nearly all of them in 1 go. I just don't find it worth the risk when Gnawholes tend to work well enough in most cases (though I know you're also talking specifically about keeping them hidden from things like KO ships shooting them off the table).

Jezzails for me are something that do work over time; not something I find needs to be within an alpha strike like the Longstrike's, AKA better Jezzails can do. Not saying it's a bad idea or anything, I just worry about losing all 1/4th of my list if something goes wrong\they get put in range of their guns. Of course, if you skitterleap a hero to be near them (or can throw out a Bell\Warpseer and his immense range) then you mitigate this. 

Well  I guess I’ll be sticking to my first list anyways.

just trying a few things out before Our stormvermin (hopfully) get their huge Pointsreduction 

I’d love to see them at a cost of 160 for 20 and no pointsreduction at max. Size 

[Gwendar]

8 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

 

Well  I guess I’ll be sticking to my first list anyways.

just trying a few things out before Our stormvermin (hopfully) get their huge Pointsreduction 

I’d love to see them at a cost of 160 for 20 and no pointsreduction at max. Size 

Nah man, I want everyone to experiment, write up reports and post them.. I love seeing what works for people and what doesn't. I play a certain way (reactively) so inherently some stuff I just don't like to do.. like aggressively being in a potentially compromised spot. That isn't to say it's a bad idea by any means.. just giving my 2 cents 😉.

Even if you're insane 240 Clanrat lists work, you can bet you'll never catch me moving, painting or transporting that many. Ever... like, ever. As for Stormvermin.. I'll be cautiously optimistic. I can't really predict GW's design\points decisions but I have 40 on order regardless.

[Skreech Verminking]

3 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Even if you're insane 240 Clanrat lists work, you can bet you'll never catch me moving, painting or transporting that many. Ever... like, ever. As for Stormvermin.. I'll be cautiously optimistic. I can't really predict GW's design\points decisions but I have 40 on order regardless

 

Yeah, I stopped ordering for now, but am trying to get my Stormvermins up to 200 in numbers, after I’ve painted the rest of my stuff.

Which is probably the reason why I’m hoping for a points decrease for those incredible looking models

it would be literally amazing to just field a verminus army consisting of  200Stormvermins 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[Darkhan]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Yeah, I stopped ordering for now, but am trying to get my Stormvermins up to 200 in numbers, after I’ve painted the rest of my stuff.

Which is probably the reason why I’m hoping for a points increase for those incredible looking models

it would be literally amazing to just field a verminus army consisting of  200Stormvermins 

200 stormvermins, JEEEEZEZ!!!!

[Skreech Verminking]

2 hours ago, Darkhan said:

200 stormvermins, JEEEEZEZ!!!!

Well with only 120of them, my collection kinda feels incomplete

[Gwendar]

@Skreech Verminking You're insane, but I guess that's a good quality here.



In other news, you all wanted something different? Here's something:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Warpgnaw Verminlord (260)
- General
- Command Trait: Malevolent
- Artefact: Ghyrstrike
Thanquol on Boneripper (400)
- 4 Warpfire Projectors
- Lore of Ruin: Warpgale

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Woe-stave
15 x Gutter Runners (180)
1 x Doomwheel (160)
1 x Doomwheel (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Bell of Doom (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 194
 

Backline threats with GR's, fast shooting\MW threats from 2 Doomwheels, a Horde threat with Thanquol and the Warpgnaw can really just hit what he wants of course.. and 140 bodies out front. Ghyrstrike + Malevolent give him a 2+/2+ RR 1's to wound and to hit if you spend a CP. Even against a 2+ save that should net you ~12 damage on a full bracket. I'll be honest, it's a bit more aggressive than what I normally do but.. hey, I think it's time to change things up as we've discussed. Monks are still nice in that they're 280 points worth of average killing power when it comes to hitting 4-6+ saves and they don't need anything like MMMWP or a CP to do what they do.

Having so little shooting is giving me anxiety but.. I think this is worth 5-10 practice games.

[Coyote]

How about 200 Monks?

[Nactigal]

 

On 5/19/2020 at 8:25 PM, fishwaffle2232 said:

I just finished listened to dan brewer as well as bitchparty's updated review of the book and its got me looking at some other options that I hadn't even considered. 

Did they talk about it recently? Where could we find it?

[Skreech Verminking]

5 hours ago, Coyote said:

How about 200 Monks?

Not really interested in having 200monks.

I’ve Painted 40of them and believe me, the process of Coloring  them was more then just a pain.

 

[Gwendar]

8 hours ago, Nactigal said:

 

Did they talk about it recently? Where could we find it?

Podcast with @bitchparty:
https://notoriousaos.podbean.com/e/notorious-aos-episode-28-skaven-ft-mitchmp3/


AoS Coach video with Dan:

 

[Skreech Verminking]

So after consideration and some time to think and with a small conversation with some of my friends, I’m really starting to get the hang of this list.

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Verminlord Warpseer (320)
- General
- Command Trait: Verminous Valour  
- Artefact: Suspicious Stone  

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)
Emerald Lifeswarm (50)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 264

I really love it.

enough bodies to keep me alive till round 5 a Verminlord that is literally almost unkillable

And 4warpgrinder teams who’ll be popping up with some cheap cheap clanrats to either block the movement of any foolish fast moving units.

and the rest is basically there to take objectives, keep everything not friendly out of my zone and screen the whole table to deny any deepstrike or lategame table tricks

if this can’t demoralize my opponent’s, then nothing can.

“Yes-yes

soon,
soon we will scurry-rise to triumph!!”

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[Skreech Verminking]

I’m one lucky ******.

There’s literally a lot less I have to paint 

thank god I already have had 180clanrats painted, from back in the days and the present.

now to paint 60more of those tiny little buckers, and let’s see out of what I can convert  some more warpgrinder teams.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Skreech Verminking