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1 minute ago, Gwendar said:

Yeah, it requires Skitterleap. Could do the same type of thing with a Warp-Grinder team of course, but at risk of hurting a unit. I would say you need 2 skitterleaps (so, a Deceiver + Grey Seer) so you can still be range to get a Spark out on the unit.

Without any buffs, yeah they are terrible (even with a spark that's about 13 damage vs a 4+) but you would be buffing one with MMMWP and the other with Deranged Inventor. I don't know of it's viability because it's over half your list and only 2 threats (of course you can squeeze a 3rd in there), but I'm saying it's an option for those of us who still have 9+ Fiends laying around and want to buy another 3 to try it out 😉. Of course if you fail MMMWP then you go from doing 55-60+ damage altogether to doing about half that.. worth exploring. I'm still going to vouch for dual WLC or 9 Jezzails simply because things like Seraphon among other things are roaming around and need long range MW output to kill off those important heroes.

Been using that tool for all my armies since you told me about it and it's just such a huge eye opener haha

But, I've had the "pleasure" playing against Seraphon with quite some frustration. It's going to get a hefty point increase on their skink heroes and salamanders, no way around it. Jezzails do quite poor, as you can't really hit anything because they're small and can just hide behind a terrain piece easily. In fact, I've begun dropping the Jezzails all together even though I really like em, but they just don't seem to pull their weight most of the times.

Also, I'm rather fond of the emergency MMWP, the command trait Deranged Inventor, giving just the rerolling hit to the Stormfiends and Spark already helps enormously. An extra vigordust wasn't all that much damage increase, but hey, it helps! It's always my back-up plan, just in case MMWP doesn't come through.

Shame Arch-Warlocks and Engineers are so fragile, hopefully we'll get a better version later on which has protection of the horned rat (I'd kill for a Skryre Verminlord with a giant rocket or something, or a mounted Warlock on a Doomwheel, please GW read this)

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6 minutes ago, Firefrog said:

Been using that tool for all my armies since you told me about it and it's just such a huge eye opener haha

But, I've had the "pleasure" playing against Seraphon with quite some frustration. It's going to get a hefty point increase on their skink heroes and salamanders, no way around it. Jezzails do quite poor, as you can't really hit anything because they're small and can just hide behind a terrain piece easily. In fact, I've begun dropping the Jezzails all together even though I really like em, but they just don't seem to pull their weight most of the times.

Also, I'm rather fond of the emergency MMWP, the command trait Deranged Inventor, giving just the rerolling hit to the Stormfiends and Spark already helps enormously. An extra vigordust wasn't all that much damage increase, but hey, it helps! It's always my back-up plan, just in case MMWP doesn't come through.

Shame Arch-Warlocks and Engineers are so fragile, hopefully we'll get a better version later on which has protection of the horned rat (I'd kill for a Skryre Verminlord with a giant rocket or something, or a mounted Warlock on a Doomwheel, please GW read this)

Yeah, I love it.. mostly because I don't have math skills to do any of it myself as other's do. All stats need to be considered with caution of course.. while it's nice to have averages, once you start applying negative modifiers, additional saves, and extremely bad\good rolls then things get wonky. Still, it's important to understand what your units do on average so you can apply them to the right targets.

I've seen Seraphon absolutely dominating on all the TTS tournaments.. and yeah, I'm not surprised at all. When me and my local guy were theory crafting it initially we almost always came to high Salamander + Skink shooting lists and that is definitely what seems to have prevailed. I still take Jezzails\WLC's simply because I play against plenty of armies that they're wonderful against and that will likely be the case in major tournaments... and while Seraphon heroes are small, they still will likely end up in the open a lot to be in range\LoS for buffs.

I'm still waiting for my Skryre-tech based Eshin re-imagining. Maybe someday 😉 

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9 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Yeah, I love it.. mostly because I don't have math skills to do any of it myself as other's do. All stats need to be considered with caution of course.. while it's nice to have averages, once you start applying negative modifiers, additional saves, and extremely bad\good rolls then things get wonky. Still, it's important to understand what your units do on average so you can apply them to the right targets.
 

What is the name of the app? Looks good.

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Will not be able to fit 2 engineers in a gnawbomb with 2x6 stormfiends list:(

1x engineer

1x Verminlord Deceiver (Dreaded skitterleap for the gnawbomb)

1x Grey Seer (Skitterleap to make the engineer follow the gnawbomb squad)

20x3 clanrats

6x2 Stormfiends

That is 1960 points:( Need that one extra engineer really.

OR! You could toss both the 2x stormfiend units underground;p Remover the Deceiver, and make room for the grinder squad +++

Edited by Darkhan
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So for something different, and probably meant more for a fun situation rather then an event like nashcon, etc. This list might do the trick.

Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : Warp Lightning Shield
Verminlord Warbringer (280)
- General
- Command Trait : Brutal Fury - Artefact : Rune Blade
Clawlord (100)
- Mighty Warlord Command Trait : Powerful
UNITS
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
ARTILLERY
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS Bell of Doom (40)
TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 194
LEADERS: 5/6 BATTLELINES: 4 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 2/4 ARTEFACTS: 1/1 ALLIES: 0/400

I’m not sure how it’ll work against most armies, considering how much I just love overpowering my toy’s this might either go extremely well, like last time I managed to kill a wounded mawcrushers (who had 11wounds left) with a single doomrocket 

or extremely poorly (like when everything dies turn 1 through my own roles)😂

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15 hours ago, Tamachan said:

 

What is the name of the app? Looks good.

https://aos-statshammer.herokuapp.com/

 

12 hours ago, Darkhan said:

Will not be able to fit 2 engineers in a gnawbomb with 2x6 stormfiends list:(

1x engineer

1x Verminlord Deceiver (Dreaded skitterleap for the gnawbomb)

1x Grey Seer (Skitterleap to make the engineer follow the gnawbomb squad)

20x3 clanrats

6x2 Stormfiends

That is 1960 points:( Need that one extra engineer really.

OR! You could toss both the 2x stormfiend units underground;p Remover the Deceiver, and make room for the grinder squad +++

Oh, no I would never run double Fiends in that type of setup 😅. I think you could by just taking the one Skitterleap  and running double grinder team or grinder team + bridge as you said.

Don't think that's worth it though, at least in a competitive environment. Something like that is easily screened off with the Ratlings 12" range. May be better to just have a Bridge for utility and slog them up the board. Worth noting that I think in a setup like this you don't really need 2 Engineers unless you planned to split both units far away from the single Engineer.. in which case yeah, you need 2. The goal here is T1/2 deepstrike and kill as much as possible.. think like the old Gautfyre battalion? Basically you do it as soon as possible to negate a chance of them getting sniped.

Hell... I think I may look at messing with this just for the fun of it rather than the competitive-sake of it 😉
 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Warlock Engineer (100)
- General
- Command Trait: Deranged Inventor
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Thanquol on Boneripper (400)
- 4 Warpfire Projectors
- Lore of Ruin: Warpgale

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
6 x Stormfiends (520)
- 2x Windlaunchers
- 2x Ratling Cannons
- 2x Shock Gauntlets
6 x Stormfiends (520)
- 2x Windlaunchers
- 2x Ratling Cannons
- 2x Shock Gauntlets

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 155
 

If you're real insane, drop an Engineer for WLV.

Edited by Gwendar
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Another List I might consider throwing at the next tournament might be this list:

Allegiance: Skaventide
- Mortal Realm: Chamon
LEADERS
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- General
- Command Trait : Deranged Inventor
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Artefact : Vial of the Fulminator
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
UNITS
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Skryre Acolytes (240) 20 x Skryre Acolytes (240) 10 x Night Runners (80) 10 x Night Runners (80)
1 x Doomwheel (160)
1 x Doomwheel (160)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS Bell of Doom (40)
TOTAL: 1960/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 211
LEADERS: 3/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 2/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 1/1 ALLIES: 0/400
it’s probably more madness then I usually use, but I’m trying to go with a theme here.

I started converting my poisoned wind mortars into lesser warlock bombardiers and a Master doom engineer giving1C7AAD60-C23F-46CF-8661-89C177E526C3.jpeg.4d00d937e71a914a223158f13ba1620d.jpeg them orders.

and it just kinda seemed roght to have a huge platoon of 40acolytes accompanying them, while supported by some hellish construct, and hordes and hordes of clanrats and night runners

Edited by Skreech Verminking
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Definitely worth a listen, I always value Dan's opinion. Some things I somewhat disagree with, both overall it's given me a bit of a think on some of my opinions of things.

May be worth trying some new, very different ideas out.. though again, a lot will depend on the GHB:

 

Edited by Gwendar
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On 5/8/2020 at 5:33 AM, Gwendar said:

Nice discussion, would be interested to see some of your more recent lists that have doing well for you. Hearing that you value Gutter Runners so much has me curious. Hell, I've even almost considered running 2x6 Fiends and giving the Gnawbomb trick a go 😅

Thanks mate.

Here is the Gnawbomb list that has done me well the last couple of tournaments. I placed 3rd and 5th with it. 

It's a really solid list but it does rely on dice rolls. For the most effective gnawbomb you need to cast MMMP, Dreaded Skitterleap and Skitterleap. 

The idea is that you cast MMMWP on the Stormfiends, then Dreaded Skitterleap the Deceiver to a piece of terrain then turn it into a Gnawhole. Then Skitterleap the Arch Warlock over to the Gnawbomb. In the movement phase send the Stormfiends through the Gnawhole. If you're facing a combat army, then pop up 40 clanrats as a screen around the fiends using the Warp Grinder.

The Gutter Runners come in off the board edge to harass the flank. This can be done on the opposite side of the table to the Gnawbomb so your opponent has to divide his attention. If he doesn't take out the Gutter Runners they will cause trouble.

That's the general idea, but it does require different tactics in some situations. Deployment generally has your heroes grouped together (and you need them all for the trick to work properly) so something like a Stormcast comet can ruin your day.

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Verminlord Deceiver (320)
- General
- Command Trait: Shadowmaster
- Artefact: Gnawbomb
Arch-Warlock (160)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Grey Seer (140)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
- 2x Standard Bearers
- 2x Standard Bell Ringers
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
- 2x Standard Bearers
- 2x Standard Bell Ringers
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
- 2x Standard Bearers
- 2x Standard Bell Ringers

Units
6 x Stormfiends (520)
- 2x Windlaunchers
- 2x Ratling Cannons
- 2x Shock Gauntlets
20 x Gutter Runners (200)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Bell of Doom (40)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 182
 

----

Here's the list that did really well for me last year and consistently placed in the top 5 at events.

It used to have 20 more clanrats in it but points increases put a stop to that.

This one is less of a single strategy focused list and is designed to play the objectives with bodies while Thanquol and the Warbringer are the ones doing the damage.

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Verminlord Warbringer (280)
- General
- Command Trait: Brutal Fury
- Artefact: Things-Bane
Thanquol on Boneripper (400)
- 4 Warpfire Braziers
- Lore of Ruin: Warpgale
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
- 2x Standard Bearers
- 2x Standard Bell Ringers
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
- 2x Standard Bearers
- 2x Standard Bell Ringers
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
- 2x Standard Bearers
- 2x Standard Bell Ringers

Units
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Foetid Blades

Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 191
 

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4 minutes ago, bitchparty said:

Thanks mate.

Here is the Gnawbomb list that has done me well the last couple of tournaments. I placed 3rd and 5th with it. 

It's a really solid list but it does rely on dice rolls. For the most effective gnawbomb you need to cast MMMP, Dreaded Skitterleap and Skitterleap. 

The idea is that you cast MMMWP on the Stormfiends, then Dreaded Skitterleap the Deceiver to a piece of terrain then turn it into a Gnawhole. Then Skitterleap the Arch Warlock over to the Gnawbomb. In the movement phase send the Stormfiends through the Gnawhole. If you're facing a combat army, then pop up 40 clanrats as a screen around the fiends using the Warp Grinder.

The Gutter Runners come in off the board edge to harass the flank. This can be done on the opposite side of the table to the Gnawbomb so your opponent has to divide his attention. If he doesn't take out the Gutter Runners they will cause trouble.

That's the general idea, but it does require different tactics in some situations. Deployment generally has your heroes grouped together (and you need them all for the trick to work properly) so something like a Stormcast comet can ruin your day.

----

Here's the list that did really well for me last year and consistently placed in the top 5 at events.

It used to have 20 more clanrats in it but points increases put a stop to that.

This one is less of a single strategy focused list and is designed to play the objectives with bodies while Thanquol and the Warbringer are the ones doing the damage.
 

I appreciate it, always like having more ideas to pull from from others experiences. May give the Gnawbomb thing a shot one day... there's actually  quite a few things that quarantine withdrawals have made me want to try next time I get to play. 😉

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Finished up my 2 WLC's that never got updated to my settled on paint scheme. I'll finish the Bell of Doom tomorrow. Have 40 Stormvermin and a Warpgnaw coming in as well in the next few weeks so I'll post those up when they're good to go as well. For now, back to my Dwarves 😉

IMG_20200511_202052.jpg.248193a3fa113cc42759708e22cc9328.jpg

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I do not get GW...just bought a island of blood engineer + warpfire thrower on Ebay. WHY are they not making these models?
The engineer looks 10 times better than the old metal engineers, same goes for the thrower,  not even to mention the rat ogors.....

And stopped selling the clawlord on brood horror.

I'm frustrated:(

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4 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

I do not get GW...just bought a island of blood engineer + warpfire thrower on Ebay. WHY are they not making these models?
The engineer looks 10 times better than the old metal engineers, same goes for the thrower,  not even to mention the rat ogors.....

If you mean "why they didn't release those particular sculpts separately" then the answer is all of those miniatures share sprues and they would have to make everything from scratch. Not worth it. That's why newer sets have at least characters on their own little sprues. 

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1 minute ago, michu said:

If you mean "why they didn't release those particular sculpts separately" then the answer is all of those miniatures share sprues and they would have to make everything from scratch. Not worth it. That's why newer sets have at least characters on their own little sprues. 

Lame. They did the bombardier:/ BUT increased the guy by 20 points😂

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37 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

A decrease of 10 to 20 points for the engineer, would have been a better choice!

Yeah... I really don't understand the 20 point increase for an 18" shot on a far better model. It's like they didn't want people to use their new model that they took a year to announce they were releasing it themselves so you could stop buying from scalpers.

Oh wait, I guess I went on a slight tangent. 

Anyway, I've been using Bombardiers as proxy's for Engineers.. but the IoB one's are ~$25 on ebay so they're about on point with any other blister pack hero.

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1 hour ago, Gwendar said:


Anyway, I've been using Bombardiers as proxy's for Engineers..

I really must be pretty lukcy, that I somehwo own 4of these plastic bad boys.

I never really needed to proxy much.

although having a Stormvermin carry a pistol, and giving it some kind of a powers-word, usually  does the trick for having a engineer

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3 hours ago, Darkhan said:

I do not get GW...just bought a island of blood engineer + warpfire thrower on Ebay. WHY are they not making these models?
The engineer looks 10 times better than the old metal engineers, same goes for the thrower,  not even to mention the rat ogors.....

And stopped selling the clawlord on brood horror.

I'm frustrated:(

They are lovely models! I managed to score a full set of skaven off eBay last year. The problem is the 2 armies for Island of Blood were mixed over the same sprue, so one sprue had both elf and skaven on it.. The AoS  starter set (Stormcast & Khorne) that followed has at least been split so that it has now been repackaged as 2 start collecting sets. I guess when soul wars gets replaced they'll do the same with nighthaunt & sacrosanct.

But such a shame about Island of Blood. I wish I had bought a few of them at the time!

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28 minutes ago, Firefrog said:

I've bought couple of those sets 2nd hand aswell, but, nothing stopping GW from boxing them in a start collecting right, as the sprues aren't mixed High Elf / Skaven? Could use one too, as we only have a Pestilens SC.

I’ve never owned them from brand new, but I’m pretty sure they are mixed which is what causes the problem.

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5 hours ago, GrimDork said:

I’ve never owned them from brand new, but I’m pretty sure they are mixed which is what causes the problem.

Which is a bit sad.

but in reality having the whole island of blood kit back in store again, and having some of the high elves be brought back as cities of sigmar units might actually make the box a pretty good and valuable boxset.

if only they’d kept selling them

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35 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

but in reality having the whole island of blood kit back in store again, and having some of the high elves be brought back as cities of sigmar units might actually make the box a pretty good and valuable boxset.

With the upcoming lumineth release I see this being even less likely🙁

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