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2 hours ago, Enkyridion said:

If you give brutal fury to the Clawlord on Brood horror, he gets 3 extra attacks for the prehensile and the fangs and claws as well?...

Yeah that is another model that is incredible, with that command trait.

but personally I prefer the Verminlord, just because both his weapons deal an incredible amount of damage, and the glaive having “3” range, makes it a lot easier to snipe a hero, when that guy is sitting behind his screen

Edit: in addition The Verminlord, might be one of the last real melee threads left standing, the clans verminus have, considering that FW just discontinued that great looking clawlord model, and since gw well have announced that their rule team will be reworking every rule for aos and 40k Fw models, there might be a possibility that he will be gone for good.

although I’m hoping that this isn’t the case

Edited by Skreech Verminking
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5 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Yeah that is another model that is incredible, with that command trait.

but personally I prefer the Verminlord, just because both his weapons deal an incredible amount of damage, and the glaive having “3” range, makes it a lot easier to snipe a hero, when that guy is sitting behind his screen

Edit: in addition The Verminlord, might be one of the last real melee threads left standing, the clans verminus have, considering that FW just discontinued that great looking clawlord model, and since gw well have announced that their rule team will be reworking every rule for aos and 40k Fw models, there might be a possibility that he will be gone for good.

although I’m hoping that this isn’t the case

They what? Reworking every rule for aos?
Do you have a link for this?

 

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43 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

I thinkt tgey’ve announced it a long time ago on warhammer community, although it might just be for 40k.

but. l’my look it up again should I find it

I know they're doing a lot of changes to FW, both model and rules-wise.. I don't think that's the case with AoS. 40k.. maybe? I dunno, I don't keep track of that game 😉

If anything is going to be re-written in AoS, it's going to come in the form of a new edition or new GHB.. doubtful it would be anything done out of nowhere.

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8 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

I know they're doing a lot of changes to FW, both model and rules-wise.. I don't think that's the case with AoS. 40k.. maybe? I dunno, I don't keep track of that game 😉

GW was talking about redoing Imperial Armours rulebooks. Nothing change for AoS.

Edited by michu
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1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

So Basically said I’m sorry for thanqouls mistake, who tried to mislead me.

(and it almost worked)😁

Pretty sure he thinks that his misinformation campaign failed because of sabotage...

...and he wouldn't be wrong this time :) 

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I've been away from the hobbies for some time since I was a kid and the rules now really can confuse me at times. And there is a lot of contradicting information for example in the magazine for beginners it says to measure distance from the model yet in the handbook it says the base. Also and hey this might just be my bias but I think skaven have been unfairly nerfed and a tad unfair when it comes to alliances with other chaos factions 

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34 minutes ago, Martin87 said:

I've been away from the hobbies for some time since I was a kid and the rules now really can confuse me at times. And there is a lot of contradicting information for example in the magazine for beginners it says to measure distance from the model yet in the handbook it says the base. Also and hey this might just be my bias but I think skaven have been unfairly nerfed and a tad unfair when it comes to alliances with other chaos factions 

Totally agree on the unfairly nerfed!

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17 hours ago, Martin87 said:

I've been away from the hobbies for some time since I was a kid and the rules now really can confuse me at times. And there is a lot of contradicting information for example in the magazine for beginners it says to measure distance from the model yet in the handbook it says the base. Also and hey this might just be my bias but I think skaven have been unfairly nerfed and a tad unfair when it comes to alliances with other chaos factions 

In previous editions you would measure distance from any part of the model, which was idiotic more or less due to being gamey about modeling your armies for advantage. Line of Sight however is still measured from any part of the model.. so that also can lead to gamey scenarios where you thought your model wasn't visible, but a small piece of your boot was visible from the tip of an enemy models sword... so yeah.

I will agree we got a little overnerfed when compared to other factions who have more egregious mechanics and killing power.. but we do still have plenty of tricks  and units that we can make use of that compare quite well. The biggest losses for me are 9 Fiends and Stormvermin being overcosted (as I've said before, with their current warscroll I think they need to come down to 350-380 for 40) but other than that I've been able to make due quite well.



On an unrelated note, I pre-registered for Nashcon now, so (pandemic willing) looks like I'll be heading to both Nashcon and NOVA this year for my major tournaments.. interesting to see how they go. We hopefully will get the GHB assuming it hasn't been delayed so I'm definitely looking forward to what may change overall and with us specifically on that release.

Edited by Gwendar
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Fiddling with ideas today.. trying to gauge the current meta and how to counter it, but I continue to draw some blanks when it comes to us having proper answers. I've put my 3-5 Ratling Gun Team lists on hold for now as I'm not entirely sure how they'll hold up.. especially if the Bridge does actually get nerfed to allow 1 unit across.

To start off, I'm using my core of 2 Engineers, 3x20 Clanrats and 6 Fiends. More and more I've been considering reintroducing the Thanquol + WLV combo into lists.. combine that with Fiends and 9 Jezzails\2 WLC's and you have the standard 3 (or 4 if you count WLV) threat list that covers horde clearing and single-target output. Now, here is where I get a little tied up; drop Thanquol for (what I normally run) with an HPA + Doomwheel.

HPA: If you compare the damage of a non-bracketed HPA to non-bracketed Thanquol (and this is assuming both can get 20 models in range of their respective horde clearing options and Thanquol is modeled 50/50 on his weapons) they're very close to each other on average. The difference here is that the HPA can be sneezed at and it will drop 2 brackets; against any spell\shooting focused list it may not make it in.. not that many units can stand up to 30 Irondrakes or 9 Flamers by any means 😉

Doomwheel: So this being 4d6" is far less random on average. This thing tends to work well enough for me for 160 points because it's generally a nuisance... but it can be a deadly nuisance with double-triggering MW's combined with it's shooting profile. When talking about the Thanquol + WLV setup, the Doomwheel is the WLV; high threat range and lots of MW output.



So, I figured I would throw this out there for some discussion. If it isn't already known, this is coming from a competitive standpoint; I know running 4 Doomwheels would be fun and all but that isn't what I'm looking for 😅. Does this discussion even matter now? Will the GHB be out soon and change the meta in various ways or allow us to actually take 40 Stormvermin as a CC option without them costing 400+ points? Should I just run 2 HPA's and 2 Doomwheels? Who knows.. but I just wanted to get some conversation going. 

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https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-5kzfd-db8a04

https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/notorious-age-of-sigmar/id1394412385?fbclid=IwAR3rs5N8G8LuTV2o6L_5pJ2ma4GLlL--Vvx1fWrBQ4oLZYSIBzkxMryOAH8&mt=2

Hey guys I was on this podcast recently and talked about Skaven for 3 hours. Hope some of you enjoy it.

 

FYI there is a bit of adult language so make the kids wear earmuffs.

Edited by bitchparty
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9 hours ago, Gwendar said:

HPA: If you compare the damage of a non-bracketed HPA to non-bracketed Thanquol (and this is assuming both can get 20 models in range of their respective horde clearing options and Thanquol is modeled 50/50 on his weapons) they're very close to each other on average. The difference here is that the HPA can be sneezed at and it will drop 2 brackets; against any spell\shooting focused list it may not make it in.. not that many units can stand up to 30 Irondrakes or 9 Flamers by any means 😉

Having played HPA extensively the last few months, I'm leaning towards Thanquol aswell, it's not only his clearing he brings but also the WLV.

Armies played against are Ogors, Seraphon (****** that army), Fyreslayers and DoK. That's 3 very meta lists there where Thanquol with 4 flamers will just do incredible, 50/50 is not worth it in my opinion, you don't really want him in melee as even with 50/50 loadout he will do on average  8 damage unbracketed on a 4+ (with all melee profiles, just the 2 braziers will do 4 dmg on average).

Also, HPA's horde clearing is targetted within 3", a big unit will not catch all units, where Thanquol has a higher chance of doing that. Also, Thanquol is a leader and can scurry away in combat!

I've also tried a big unit of acolytes multiple times, and while they have a high damage potential they are so fragile and a have a HUGE footprint. I'm leaning towards going back to Stormfiends.

Something like:

Leaders
Thanquol on Boneripper (400)
- 4 Warpfire Braziers
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
Warlock Engineer (100)

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
20 x Clanrats (120)
20 x Clanrats (120)

Units
40 x Plague Monks (280)
6 x Stormfiends (520)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 167

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I like this idea. I was toying with s few ideas one being using a clan rat meetshield with plague claws and priest behind to do some damage over the top while a doomwheel and warp fire throwers do front line damage I'm just not sure if the artillery will do enough damage to make this work. Do mortars still fire over friendly units? The only rules I can find on them is old and there is nothing in any of the new battletombes i can see about them

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7 minutes ago, Martin87 said:

I like this idea. I was toying with s few ideas one being using a clan rat meetshield with plague claws and priest behind to do some damage over the top while a doomwheel and warp fire throwers do front line damage I'm just not sure if the artillery will do enough damage to make this work. Do mortars still fire over friendly units? The only rules I can find on them is old and there is nothing in any of the new battletombes i can see about them

Mortars got removed:/ Cause GW hates Skaven.

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4 hours ago, Firefrog said:

Having played HPA extensively the last few months, I'm leaning towards Thanquol aswell, it's not only his clearing he brings but also the WLV.

Armies played against are Ogors, Seraphon (****** that army), Fyreslayers and DoK. That's 3 very meta lists there where Thanquol with 4 flamers will just do incredible, 50/50 is not worth it in my opinion, you don't really want him in melee as even with 50/50 loadout he will do on average  8 damage unbracketed on a 4+ (with all melee profiles, just the 2 braziers will do 4 dmg on average).

Also, HPA's horde clearing is targetted within 3", a big unit will not catch all units, where Thanquol has a higher chance of doing that. Also, Thanquol is a leader and can scurry away in combat!

I've also tried a big unit of acolytes multiple times, and while they have a high damage potential they are so fragile and a have a HUGE footprint. I'm leaning towards going back to Stormfiends.

Something like:

Leaders
Thanquol on Boneripper (400)
- 4 Warpfire Braziers
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
Warlock Engineer (100)

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
20 x Clanrats (120)
20 x Clanrats (120)

Units
40 x Plague Monks (280)
6 x Stormfiends (520)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 167

I'm beginning to think if you want to run HPA's then you may be better off running double HPA.. maybe even a Master Moulder? Of course at that point you're sitting 80 points above Thanquol + WLV and I'm not sure if it compares to the utility of Thanquol. I'm just not a huge fan of Monks, but I recognize they're still a good comp option so I may just finish basing them and give them a go again... 

Acolytes do incredibly well in my local meta, but I don't imagine they will in a tournament setting so I'm with you on wanting to keep around the Fiends. I've gotten out of the "you need a Bridge with these"  phase as I think that was only prevalent when we had 9 Fiend lists. Your list is pretty close to what I have mostly settled on.. although I really feel the need to take 2 WLC's or 9 Jezzails. So once things start opening back up I think I may give it a go in prep for these tournaments I'm heading to. Having Thanquol on a potential +3 to cast (+4 if you're still sitting in deployment on T2 waiting for that Orruk\Ogre army to crash into you) is great if the Bell continually rolls average.. though with my luck I generally just get the Peal of Doom result which does nothing most of the time 😉

I'm still wary of only having 1 Engineer as so much of the damage is coming out of those Fiends. Seraphon will easily pop it on a double turn with their wonderful board wide Comet 🙄.. I've yet to play new Seraphon since that's when the lockdowns started occurring, but I've noticed they're dominating TTS tournaments and I'm not shocked in the slightest. We have a competitive Seraphon player who I play against a lot (who is also going to Nashcon with me) that I've really wanted to test some things out against.
 

4 hours ago, Darkhan said:

@Gwendar Doomwheel double mortal wounds? Is this done by driving over the same unit two times? As in back and forth? If so, never thought about this😅

The MW's go off when a unit is charged as well. Run something over, shoot, then charge it. It's why running 2 of them can actually do quite well for how cheap they are.




Another thing I've been working out is 2 WLC's vs 9 Jezzails. For 60 less points, I can get about the same damage if both WLC's are overcharged.. this is of course assuming the average roll of 4+ on power dice and the Jezzails are getting +1 damage. Even if you shoot them normally, combined it's likely enough to pop a support hero. If you calculate Jezzails as hitting on 5+'s with Lo,S then you're really just fishing for MW's at that point.. which means ~7 damage. Still enough damage, but a larger footprint that costs more, even IF it has longer range. I think I may try the following next time I get to play:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Warlock Engineer (100)
- General
- Command Trait: Deranged Inventor
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Thanquol on Boneripper (400)
- 4 Warpfire Projectors
- Lore of Ruin: Warpgale

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
6 x Stormfiends (520)
- 2x Windlaunchers
- 2x Ratling Cannons
- 2x Shock Gauntlets

Artillery
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Warp Lightning Vortex (100)
Vermintide (40)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 135
 

 

Edited by Gwendar
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17 hours ago, bitchparty said:

https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-5kzfd-db8a04

https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/notorious-age-of-sigmar/id1394412385?fbclid=IwAR3rs5N8G8LuTV2o6L_5pJ2ma4GLlL--Vvx1fWrBQ4oLZYSIBzkxMryOAH8&mt=2

Hey guys I was on this podcast recently and talked about Skaven for 3 hours. Hope some of you enjoy it.

 

FYI there is a bit of adult language so make the kids wear earmuffs.

Nice discussion, would be interested to see some of your more recent lists that have doing well for you. Hearing that you value Gutter Runners so much has me curious. Hell, I've even almost considered running 2x6 Fiends and giving the Gnawbomb trick a go 😅

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1 hour ago, Gwendar said:

Nice discussion, would be interested to see some of your more recent lists that have doing well for you. Hearing that you value Gutter Runners so much has me curious. Hell, I've even almost considered running 2x6 Fiends and giving the Gnawbomb trick a go 😅

I'm all for that 2x6 fiends! Have not had the chance yet, but the temptation is real!

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1 hour ago, Gwendar said:

Nice discussion, would be interested to see some of your more recent lists that have doing well for you. Hearing that you value Gutter Runners so much has me curious. Hell, I've even almost considered running 2x6 Fiends and giving the Gnawbomb trick a go 😅

I must be missing something, how would you try the gnawbomb trick? Probably requires skitterleap as the other options are all the end of movement?

2x 6 Stormfiends sound great on the table, but without any buff they're just terrible for the points... Didn't get a chance to listen to the podcast but any way it's viable I'm in 😄

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27 minutes ago, Firefrog said:

I must be missing something, how would you try the gnawbomb trick? Probably requires skitterleap as the other options are all the end of movement?

2x 6 Stormfiends sound great on the table, but without any buff they're just terrible for the points... Didn't get a chance to listen to the podcast but any way it's viable I'm in 😄

Yeah, it requires Skitterleap. Could do the same type of thing with a Warp-Grinder team of course, but at risk of hurting a unit. I would say you need 2 skitterleaps (so, a Deceiver + Grey Seer) so you can still be range to get a Spark out on the unit.

Without any buffs, yeah they are terrible (even with a spark that's about 13 damage vs a 4+) but you would be buffing one with MMMWP and the other with Deranged Inventor. I don't know of it's viability because it's over half your list and only 2 threats (of course you can squeeze a 3rd in there), but I'm saying it's an option for those of us who still have 9+ Fiends laying around and want to buy another 3 to try it out 😉. Of course if you fail MMMWP then you go from doing 55-60+ damage altogether to doing about half that.. worth exploring. I'm still going to vouch for dual WLC or 9 Jezzails simply because things like Seraphon among other things are roaming around and need long range MW output to kill off those important heroes.

Stats below:
image.png.77e98f1059fe4076d43e40f75a3896cc.png

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