AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Skreech Verminking]

3 hours ago, Enkyridion said:

Hey guys! 

I came up with this list, already tested it vs Nighthaunt and Gloomspite and it performed okay, the abomination escaping from dead because well... It's too horrible to die...

The idea was to mix the power of moulder and skryre in the more efficient possible way

What you guys think? Any modifications? Is Moulder Master worth playing? 

Hi there the lists looks really great,

although what’s your reason for taking a unit of 3packmaster, I seem to be missing the reason, since they don’t really buff anything, considering that the Stormfiends are missing the “moulder pack” keyword,

which is probably also the reason why I don’t really understand the ise of the master moulder, which doesn’t buff much either.

unless you took him for the extra d3 wounds you can give to your hell pit (since he has the “fighting beast” keyword, something else, the Stormfiends are missing, keyword wise)

Edited May 1, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[Enkyridion]

Hi @Skreech Verminking

OMG I thought the stormfiends had the keyword Moulder, it's showing on the app...

If that's the case, the yes, the packmasters have no reason to be lol... The idea of the master Moulder was to buff the Abomination and bring it back or the stormfiends... But if the keyword is gone then I should reformulate the list

Thanks for the comments!

[Adamcbutton]

32 minutes ago, Enkyridion said:

Hi @Skreech Verminking

OMG I thought the stormfiends had the keyword Moulder, it's showing on the app...

If that's the case, the yes, the packmasters have no reason to be lol... The idea of the master Moulder was to buff the Abomination and bring it back or the stormfiends... But if the keyword is gone then I should reformulate the list

Thanks for the comments!

Stormfiends have the Moulder keyword but not Pack or Fighting Beast, which are the ones the Master Moulders/Packmasters interact with

[Enkyridion]

@Adamcbutton

I'm so blind lol

I'm fixing the list to see what results, now I'm not sure if it worth including Master Moulder...

[Cosmicsheep]

@Enkyridion now if you were to drop the packmasters, and the endless spells, you’d have 200pts to spend on 4 rat ogres, who do have the right keywords to be buffed by the master Moulder and be regenerated. And he’ll also give an extra D3 wounds to the hellpit and rerolling  1s 👍

[Verminlord]

16 hours ago, Enkyridion said:

Hey guys! 

I came up with this list, already tested it vs Nighthaunt and Gloomspite and it performed okay, the abomination escaping from dead because well... It's too horrible to die...

The idea was to mix the power of moulder and skryre in the more efficient possible way

What you guys think? Any modifications? Is Moulder Master worth playing?

 

I would do something like this for moulder:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Master Moulder (100)
- General
- Command Trait: Verminous Valour
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch or Foulhide
Arch-Warlock (160)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
3 x Packmasters (60)
4 x Rat Ogors (200)
6 x Stormfiends (520)
10 x Giant Rats (60)
10 x Giant Rats (60)
Hell Pit Abomination (240)
Fleshmeld Menagerie (160)
Bell of Doom (40)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 161

I don't think the vortex skitterleap combo is worth investing in personally. I've tried it a lot and it rarely goes off. You can use those points to take the battalion for the extra artifact and CP. Bell spell will help you skip some battleshocks, and you'll hopefully get one or two units of sacrificial giant rats back from MMs CA. MM can CP farm with aetherquartz or if hes getting focused a lot, better off with foulhide.  Balewind gives you a 2+ save warlock for hero battleplans and extra reach on his warscroll spell. 3 big threats: Hell pit, Rat Ogors (with packmaster support), and Stormfiends. You could save 100 points by taking 9 jezzails instead of stormfiends which you could use to bolster chaff or take another spell(s) with, but stormfiends are definitely rule of cool with a moulder/skryre list.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Verminlord

[Iron Fist]

Hi guys,
with all the latest changes what's the new way to play skaven competitivly?

have the jezzails replaced the stormfiends?

 

thanks!

[Gwendar]

3 hours ago, Iron Fist said:

have the jezzails replaced the stormfiends?

Absolutely not, they are different tools with different goals (IMO) and you commonly see 1x6 Fiends and 1x9 Jezzails ran in lists. Jezzails are best aimed at heroes\behemoths with elite units also being a good pick. Fiends usually kill anything else.. Windlaunchers can kill support heroes but with only 6 shots now that's a harder to pull off. With that, many of us add 1-2 more threats such as 40 Monks or an HPA. Lately I've been looking at trying 3-5 Ratling Gun teams in place of the Stormfiends, which frees up more points for other things on top of the 9 Jezzails. Top picks being: double HPA, more Monks, 30 Acolytes to make use of MMMWP being my absolute top pick. You should be able to include 2 of these, depending how your hero situation looks. I tend to run 3 foot heroes and minimum Clanrats to stock up on firepower, but that's everchanging in this meta 😉

Overall.. I wouldn't say a ton has changed as Stormfiends are still a top pick a lot of the time, they're just harder to use what with now having less firepower and less wounds, meaning your offensive capability declines much faster once you start taking models off the table.

[Iron Fist]

Thank you

Can you show me a typical competitive 2000 pts list for you?

[Skreech Verminking]

7 minutes ago, Iron Fist said:

Thank you

Can you show me a typical competitive 2000 pts list for you?

400clanrats and a single hero.

cheers!

[Iron Fist]

A list like that you mean?

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Grey Seer (140)
- General
- Lore of Ruin: Plague
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear

Units
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Foetid Blades
6 x Stormfiends (520)
- 2x Windlaunchers
- 2x Ratling Cannons
- 2x Shock Gauntlets

Artillery
Warplock Jezzails (420)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 169
 

[Gwendar]

23 minutes ago, Iron Fist said:

Thank you

Can you show me a typical competitive 2000 pts list for you?

I run quite a few.. check out my batreps if you want some play examples.

Here is what I would consider my "base" list:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Warlock Engineer (100)
- General
- Command Trait: Deranged Inventor
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Command Trait: Deranged Inventor
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- Lore of Ruin: Warpgale

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
6 x Stormfiends (520)
- 2x Windlaunchers
- 2x Ratling Cannons
- 2x Shock Gauntlets

Behemoths
Hell Pit Abomination (240)

Artillery
9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 149
 

3 Threats: Jezzails for heroes\behemoths, HPA for hordes\elites, Fiends for literally anything you want dead.

I call this my base list because you can easily swap things out to experiment. I always run 2x Engineers for redundancy on MMMWP as without it the Fiends damage is pitiful, same if I'm running 30 Acolytes. Speaking of, a common variant I run swaps the Fiends for 30 Acolytes and a Doomwheel. Can swap the Bell for a standard Grey Seer on foot if you like.. I'll do this if I plan to run Bridge, but I don't do that much anymore as it's easily read by a decent opponent where you're going with it. I do better without it as I tend to play defensively and it's better suited to an offensive playstyle unless you're using it to castle on an objective T1, which I only do when I use it in my CoS armies.

I like the HPA, but many prefer 40 Monks.. damage-wise they aren't too far apart, but I would say Monks are more reliable what with the HPA's random movement and all that.


EDIT: Like I said I'm wanting to experiment with 4-5 threat lists by using 3-5 units of Ratling Teams across a Bridge in place of Fiends. With the world situation though, haven't been able to test that out and TTS is way too clunky for me and I have little patience for it😉

Edited May 2, 2020 by Gwendar

[Iron Fist]

Thank you!

Have you a link for your batreps?

[Gwendar]

4 minutes ago, Iron Fist said:

Thank you!

Have you a link for your batreps?

In my signature 😉

https://www.tga.community/blogs/blog/372-gwendars-batreps/

Some stuff will be outdated of course, based on when it was played.. and of course I haven't been able to play in months, so there's that as well.

[Skreech Verminking]

So considering how expensive some of our threads are I thought of another list, representing the horde kind of play-style, the skaven are or at least should be usually known for.

and considering that most of our threads in compare with the newer ones from other factions like flamers or the flame lizards of the seraphon, I went for a well let’s say much squishier approach:

Allegiance: Skaventide
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector  
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Overseer of Destruction  
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- Lore of Ruin: Warpgale

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
10 x Night Runners (80)
20 x Skryre Acolytes (240)
1 x Ratling Gun (60)
1 x Ratling Gun (60)
1 x Ratling Gun (60)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

Behemoths
Hell Pit Abomination (240)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 185

edit: any kind of comments good or bad, are very much welcomed.

I’d love to hear your thoughts on this list

Edited May 3, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[Gwendar]

21 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

edit: any kind of comments good or bad, are very much welcomed.

I’d love to hear your thoughts on this list

I like the idea for sure. I think it would be countered by Tzeentch, CoS, KO and Seraphon with shooting and long-range multi hit spells\endless spells. I feel like Bridge would be good to bring in this list to get them closer when needed; trying to move all those short range teams up the board could be detrimental but.. hard to say of course. Depends who you play 😉

Overall I feel the current meta just doesn't favor us exceptionally well, although we can definitely compete. The above armies can give us issues, but the CC oriented ones will have trouble dealing with Skaven still. I'd like to see it ran, for sure, whenever you get a chance to play again.

[Darkhan]

I ran 40 stormvermins this Friday for the hell of it. Never tried them. JEZUZ! They ripped!

Super close match vs big waagh, won round 5 on points. 

The list was:
Verminlord Wabringer, general, Brutal Fury trait.

Clawlord.

Warlock Bomardier, Vigordust Injectors.

20x clans

20x clans

40x stormvermin.

1x WLC

6x stormfiends

1x ratling gun

1x extra command point.

 

Really hope they point decrease the stormvermins. Totally ripped. 

Canon super mvp, did not suicide, dealt around 8-10 MW every turn.

List is not optimized at all, if the bombardier got taken it, the dps in this list would drop so hard;p

Edited May 3, 2020 by Darkhan

[Skreech Verminking]

16 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

JEZUZ! They ripped!

I’m going out for a guess.

your opponent got the double turn and killed the unit of very expensive rats in one bloody swipe

[Skreech Verminking]

38 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Overall I feel the current meta just doesn't favor us exceptionally well, although we can definitely compete. The above armies can give us issues, but the CC oriented ones will have trouble dealing with Skaven still. I'd like to see it ran, for sure, whenever you get a chance to play again.

Considering that we aren’t that bad in the setting just overly overcosted I think with a few pointsreductions we might be good!

ps: thanks for writing back, it was a pretty hard week without talking or mostly writing to anybody.

Which makes a mad-thing like me go crazy

[Gwendar]

21 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

Really hope they point decrease the stormvermins. Totally ripped. 

Canon super mvp, did not suicide, dealt around 8-10 MW every turn.

List is not optimized at all, if the bombardier got taken it, the dps in this list would drop so hard;p

Nice! Did you feel the Warbringer was worth it? If not, you could drop it and just a Grey Seer with Death Frenzy. You miss the inherent power of a VL and having it hand out RR 1's to hit\wound but you could fit in a bit more. Dropping that would give you an alternate list that incorporates Bridge and 2 WLC's.. of course I'm sure you could find a myriad of other uses for those points as well. I guess what this does is swap some of the SV power for some extra shooting and utility from the Bridge.

@Skreech Verminking such is the nature of the game.. luckily we could do the same if we get the double. Just wish our battalions weren't so terrible since we can't get down to nearly enough drops to matter when the average is 4-6 compared to our average of 8+. I'm still waiting to see what happens to the double turn, if anything. And no, we aren't bad.. I think we've all laid out plenty of good changes to bump us up some. I like playing the underdog factions anyway usually so I don't mind if we got worse 😉

Edited May 3, 2020 by Gwendar

[Darkhan]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

I’m going out for a guess.

your opponent got the double turn and killed the unit of very expensive rats in one bloody swipe

He was trying out the rock golem thingy, and I acutally finished deploying before him. I gave him the first turn, and totally forgot how he can buff that HUGE thing make it fly and all kinda crazy stuff. He tossed it into the vermins from all over hes board side T1, "only" managed to kill 16.
My turn I put EVERYTHING into the golem, survived with like 2 or 3 wounds, insane saves.
I got the double turn, finished off golem, and the stormverminds charged 30 savage boys, took out like 16 or something, thats 32 wounds done that did not get saved. 
He got the double for turn 3, then they got wiped out.

 

1 hour ago, Gwendar said:

Nice! Did you feel the Warbringer was worth it? If not, you could drop it and just a Grey Seer with Death Frenzy. You miss the inherent power of a VL and having it hand out RR 1's to hit\wound but you could fit in a bit more. Dropping that would give you an alternate list that incorporates Bridge and 2 WLC's.. of course I'm sure you could find a myriad of other uses for those points as well. I guess what this does is swap some of the SV power for some extra shooting and utility from the Bridge.

@Skreech Verminking such is the nature of the game.. luckily we could do the same if we get the double. Just wish our battalions weren't so terrible since we can't get down to nearly enough drops to matter when the average is 4-6 compared to our average of 8+. I'm still waiting to see what happens to the double turn, if anything. And no, we aren't bad.. I think we've all laid out plenty of good changes to bump us up some. I like playing the underdog factions anyway usually so I don't mind if we got worse 😉

I made the list like super fast "tossing in a warbringer", and I thought the command ability was better than rerolling 1s hehehe. Did not get off dreaded deathfrenzy once:(

He was okay I guess? Worked good for buffing etc. Opponent charged  him with 10 ardboyz, and regretted it;p They pretty much got wiped, and he took 2 wounds.
The clawlord attack buff ability totally made the stormvermins shine. 25mm with 2" range is superb.

Been running 30 acolytes, but I find them a bit hard to use, need more testing.

I'm getting a bit less fan of the Bell, I dunno, but it tends to do "little" every game.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Darkhan

[Gwendar]

22 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

He was trying out the rock golem thingy

The clawlord attack buff ability totally made the stormvermins shine. 25mm with 2" range is superb.

Been running 30 acolytes, but I find them a bit hard to use, need more testing.

I'm getting a bit less fan of the Bell, I dunno, but it tends to do "little" every game.

Yeah, the Rogue Idol is pretty deceptively strong honestly.. there's a reason it's in nearly every competitive Orruk list 😅

If you're running Vermin, I think a Clawlord is absolutely necessary for sure. Some people pick the Brood Horror variant as I believe you can spam it's CA due to it not having the same "only once per phase" limit the normal Clawlord does.. problem is that we are always starving for CP. Not to mention it's likely an oversight since it has the same name? Hard to say since a good amount of CA's can be spammed in other armies.

As for Acolytes and the Bell... I get it. Acolytes are definitely harder to use and I really miss them being on 25's.. a change I really felt was necessary but so were a few other changes we've had so, oh well. I continually re-integrate the Bell in some lists but it never pays off for me either. If I had 100 leftover points I would take it instead of the foot variant but.. generally we end up 90 or less shy so it never works out.

[Darkhan]

25 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Yeah, the Rogue Idol is pretty deceptively strong honestly.. there's a reason it's in nearly every competitive Orruk list 😅

If you're running Vermin, I think a Clawlord is absolutely necessary for sure. Some people pick the Brood Horror variant as I believe you can spam it's CA due to it not having the same "only once per phase" limit the normal Clawlord does.. problem is that we are always starving for CP. Not to mention it's likely an oversight since it has the same name? Hard to say since a good amount of CA's can be spammed in other armies.

As for Acolytes and the Bell... I get it. Acolytes are definitely harder to use and I really miss them being on 25's.. a change I really felt was necessary but so were a few other changes we've had so, oh well. I continually re-integrate the Bell in some lists but it never pays off for me either. If I had 100 leftover points I would take it instead of the foot variant but.. generally we end up 90 or less shy so it never works out.

Too bad Brood Horror is not sold anymore:/ 
No idea you could spam it haha! I can see it being a good if we bought a extra CP + a cp from a battalion, not going to happen tho:/

Been thinking about including the bell endless spell, never tried that one either.
Also lists looking to test out is the Deceiver gnawbomb combo, and some underground deepstrike shenanigans.

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Darkhan said:

Been thinking about including the bell endless spell, never tried that one either.

Well talking from experience, it is one great endless spell, considering that it biffs skaventide units within 13and not wholly within makes it a interesting choice.

Although ones unbound, your army will feel the loss of the battleshock immunity, luckily for us, is that the enemy is usually more persistent in stopping spells like deathfrenzy and/or warpgale.

as for the Warbringer and the brutal fury combination, I’ve been using it a lot Lately.

with the Rune blade or dimension blade realm artefacts, you’ll be easily killing a hero (unless we’re talking about gotrek or morathi) in a single turn.

if you’re lucky you might even get 3heroes in a single turn.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[Darkhan]

2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well talking from experience, it is one great endless spell, considering that it biffs skaventide units within 13and not wholly within makes it a interesting choice.

Although ones unbound, your army will feel the loss of the battleshock immunity, luckily for us, is that the enemy is usually more persistent in stopping spells like deathfrenzy and/or warpgale.

as for the Warbringer and the brutal fury combination, I’ve been using it a lot Lately.

with the Rune blade or dimension blade realm artefacts, you’ll be easily killing a hero (unless we’re talking about gotrek or morathi) in a single turn.

if you’re lucky you might even get 3heroes in a single turn.

Wow! Super cool combo! -3 rend + 3 extra attacks,  smuuud!

Edited May 3, 2020 by Darkhan