The Red King Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 I wasn't super opposed to using a 30 block of acolytes as a screen because what they charge with will at least be in range for a lot of shooting afterwards. Of course it will never fail that I'll get double turned but you can't really plan a list that beats the hypothetical worst case scenario every time right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakhov Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Gwendar said: Oh and it is.. when it goes off.. sometimes. The problem it's currently facing is this magic heavy meta; Nagash\Arkhan in OBR, Tzeentch\Archaon and auto-dispells\unbinds, New Seraphon (who I believe will be quite popular in the competitive scene) and even some CoS armies can do well to disrupt magic. With having a high CV, a Skryre Wizard with a RR next to a Gnawhole (they still get the +1 after RR's unlike Thanquol\Grey Seers) is the best option to cast it with but.. if it doesn't go off it's a 100 point paperweight for your cheat sheet. Even if it does go off, you can have abysmal luck with it by rolling 1's on d6 MW's or rolling a 1-3 four times in a row when you needed a 4 to do d3 MW's.. but it's a dice game after all and that's the nature of it in your case, yeah if you don't have anything that needs an Engineer then I wouldn't bother.. but always try to have at least 3 heroes\wizards for when those certain battleplans pop up.. and to spend CP obviously. All I have for now is a plague priest, clawlord, grey seer on bell and 2 engineers as leaders. Should I be considering getting another one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Malakhov said: All I have for now is a plague priest, clawlord, grey seer on bell and 2 engineers as leaders. Should I be considering getting another one? If you run a "standard" 2-3 Skryre guns and a 40-Monk unit then no.. I think a Seer + 2 Engineers is perfect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakhov Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Gwendar said: If you run a "standard" 2-3 Skryre guns and a 40-Monk unit then no.. I think a Seer + 2 Engineers is perfect. Good the next purchases are the jezzails conversions and gnawholes. Thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nactigal Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Just picked up a Verminlord for my quarentine painting. I have a skryre army with 60 clanrata right now and I'm not sure which Verminlord to build. Any suggestions? Also, would you recommend sub assembly? If so what parts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Nactigal said: Just picked up a Verminlord for my quarentine painting. I have a skryre army with 60 clanrata right now and I'm not sure which Verminlord to build. Any suggestions? Also, would you recommend sub assembly? If so what parts? I can't talk on the tactics but absolutely on the sub assembly. The head for sure should stay off. Both arms but you can probably put the left one on. The legs are fine but be sure to leave off the crotch tabard to get to them easily. Definitely keep the tail off and if you're going to build him with the glaive probably worth leaving that off. Problem with sub assembly on the back is that the very first fur but it wants you to attach covers a kind of hard to paint armored belt on his waist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 4 hours ago, Nactigal said: Just picked up a Verminlord for my quarentine painting. I have a skryre army with 60 clanrata right now and I'm not sure which Verminlord to build. Any suggestions? Warpseer is generally considered a great all-rounder Verminlord. Good defense, a spell that can snipe a hero on a good roll or slow down something scarier and it has a huge BS immunity bubble.. the dude even gives you free CP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy_Pistolero Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 I'm trying to convert up Veskit from mordheim into a more over the top AOS style and would like him to try live up to his old reputation. I know deathmasters aren't very good but to make one even slightly threatening which do people recommend between sword of judgement (d6 mw on 6 vs heros) and dimensional blade (-3 ap), ones more consistent but still only 1 damage, casual games obviously not tournament level. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy_Pistolero Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) Sorry double post Edited March 21, 2020 by Gypsy_Pistolero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakhov Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 (edited) How do you guys feel about acolytes? And how many of them does it take to be worth talking about? I was thinking of getting some conversion kits, though I cant go for 30 immediately Edited March 22, 2020 by Malakhov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 22 hours ago, Gypsy_Pistolero said: I'm trying to convert up Veskit from mordheim into a more over the top AOS style and would like him to try live up to his old reputation. I know deathmasters aren't very good but to make one even slightly threatening which do people recommend between sword of judgement (d6 mw on 6 vs heros) and dimensional blade (-3 ap), ones more consistent but still only 1 damage, casual games obviously not tournament level. I find SoJ better, but if you're going casual games then people may not like the MW's it does so.. Dimensional Blade may be the better option 😉 1 hour ago, Malakhov said: How do you guys feel about acolytes? And how many of them does it take to be worth talking about? I was thinking of getting some conversion kits, though I cant go for 30 immediately I love them.. often use them in place of 6 Fiends and it leaves me 200 points to spare. I did damage calculations on them pages back and they're pretty insane..I think against a 4+ and fully buffed, just 20 of them can do ~40 damage on average? I once got all 30 in range of 20 or 30 Spite-Revs and they did about ~70 damage after saves (he had none thanks to the =2 rend) so... yeah. I like to take 30 but I generally only assume 20-25 will get in range unless something gets in my face T1. If you want them to be a main threat, then you need 25-30 in my opinion just to mitigate the self-damage from MMMWP + VIgordust. They're fragile of course, so be sure to keep them out of range of other shooting; once they drop below 20 they start to get kinda 'meh' really quickly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakhov Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 44 minutes ago, Gwendar said: 😉 I love them.. often use them in place of 6 Fiends and it leaves me 200 points to spare. I did damage calculations on them pages back and they're pretty insane..I think against a 4+ and fully buffed, just 20 of them can do ~40 damage on average? I once got all 30 in range of 20 or 30 Spite-Revs and they did about ~70 damage after saves (he had none thanks to the =2 rend) so... yeah. I like to take 30 but I generally only assume 20-25 will get in range unless something gets in my face T1. If you want them to be a main threat, then you need 25-30 in my opinion just to mitigate the self-damage from MMMWP + VIgordust. They're fragile of course, so be sure to keep them out of range of other shooting; once they drop below 20 they start to get kinda 'meh' really quickly. Interesting, love the models as well after conversion. I will wait until I can do all 30 at once then but they look fun since they can run, charge and then attack. That gives them an instant 20 range attack which seems pretty devastating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, Malakhov said: run, charge and then attack. I hope you meant run and shoot. They can't run and charge and you should never charge them into anything as they hit horribly in CC and will die in droves 😅 But yeah, they have a nice 20" threat range, though I usually say it's more like 18" or so due to the larger base size. If you only get 10 of them in range to shoot, they aren't all that astounding even fully buffed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakhov Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 48 minutes ago, Gwendar said: I hope you meant run and shoot. They can't run and charge and you should never charge them into anything as they hit horribly in CC and will die in droves 😅 But yeah, they have a nice 20" threat range, though I usually say it's more like 18" or so due to the larger base size. If you only get 10 of them in range to shoot, they aren't all that astounding even fully buffed. Yeah sorry, mixed with the terms of warcry, mordheim and AoS but basically move and attack with a 20 inch range. I'll definitely get them they look great and fun! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twh30 Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 What’s people’s thoughts on this list? Are fiends still a thing or bit of a trap to fall into ? Could swap out for bell and 6x jezzalis ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 6 hours ago, Twh30 said: Are fiends still a thing or bit of a trap to fall into ? I still think they're fine but after the unit size max went down to 9 they've a lot more "meh" to me. I've been testing lots of stuff but I'm currently trying to work out 3 Ratling Teams in place of them (or more as reserve when the others die) but with everything being cancelled\shutdown it's hard for anyone to get games in it seems to test things and any major tournaments are cancelled to observe any meta shifting. In your particular case, you will absolutely want to run Deranged Inventor so you can buff 1 unit with MMMWP and another with that so they at least get some support; neither unit is super astounding without MMMWP but Deranged is a good backup. You do have a lot of close-range shooting here though, so keep that in mind. I don't find that 6 Jezzails are worth it and if I run them I exclusively only do 9 as they can pop supports or cripple\kill larger things on good rolls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twh30 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 7 hours ago, Gwendar said: I still think they're fine but after the unit size max went down to 9 they've a lot more "meh" to me. I've been testing lots of stuff but I'm currently trying to work out 3 Ratling Teams in place of them (or more as reserve when the others die) but with everything being cancelled\shutdown it's hard for anyone to get games in it seems to test things and any major tournaments are cancelled to observe any meta shifting. In your particular case, you will absolutely want to run Deranged Inventor so you can buff 1 unit with MMMWP and another with that so they at least get some support; neither unit is super astounding without MMMWP but Deranged is a good backup. You do have a lot of close-range shooting here though, so keep that in mind. I don't find that 6 Jezzails are worth it and if I run them I exclusively only do 9 as they can pop supports or cripple\kill larger things on good rolls. Cool thanks for the reply like the idea of using rattling guns as an alternative . Could be possibility for 9 jezzalis and 3 rattling guns instead of storm fiends . All everyone can do at moment tho is theory craft and math hammer tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 @Twh30 I will always try to make room for those 9 Jezzails; they've proven to be invaluable in nearly every game. I've been thinking of an alternative to the Thanquol list I posted a page or two back that removes him as the horde-killer and allows for 30 Acolytes which.. pretty much delete anything they touch. Combining them with 4 Ratlings (1 is more or less "reserve"),9 Jezzails and a HPA. The main difference here is that with the Thanquol list, nothing needs MMMWP so it's completely non-reliant on that spell going off.. here though, it's needed due to the Acolytes, but even without it you can do decently if they target a horde. Anyway, more math-hammer for those interested. This is all 3 options without MMMWP. All have +1 damage and the Acolytes\Fiends are getting +1 from Vigordust. Ratlings have Overseer of Destruction and is assumed you get the average of ~42 shots: This is what led me to want to test 3 Ratlings as they don't require anything but Overseer which can't fail.. of course like Fiends it really matters what you roll on those d6's. But you're saving 340 points which can net you those 30 Acolytes. It's worth noting that if you just give Fiends and Acolytes Deranged Inventor then the damage jumps on both by about 6-8 on average which will surpass the Ratlings.. but by using 3 Ratlings, you again save a ton of points for other things like Monks, Jezzails, HPA, etc. So I guess in the end it's more a matter of your preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twh30 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 46 minutes ago, Gwendar said: @Twh30 I will always try to make room for those 9 Jezzails; they've proven to be invaluable in nearly every game. I've been thinking of an alternative to the Thanquol list I posted a page or two back that removes him as the horde-killer and allows for 30 Acolytes which.. pretty much delete anything they touch. Combining them with 4 Ratlings (1 is more or less "reserve"),9 Jezzails and a HPA. The main difference here is that with the Thanquol list, nothing needs MMMWP so it's completely non-reliant on that spell going off.. here though, it's needed due to the Acolytes, but even without it you can do decently if they target a horde. Anyway, more math-hammer for those interested. This is all 3 options without MMMWP. All have +1 damage and the Acolytes\Fiends are getting +1 from Vigordust. Ratlings have Overseer of Destruction and is assumed you get the average of ~42 shots: This is what led me to want to test 3 Ratlings as they don't require anything but Overseer which can't fail.. of course like Fiends it really matters what you roll on those d6's. But you're saving 340 points which can net you those 30 Acolytes. It's worth noting that if you just give Fiends and Acolytes Deranged Inventor then the damage jumps on both by about 6-8 on average which will surpass the Ratlings.. but by using 3 Ratlings, you again save a ton of points for other things like Monks, Jezzails, HPA, etc. So I guess in the end it's more a matter of your preference. Wow thanks I will read and digest this info. The idea of having several threats all at different ranges . It just confuses your opponents priority targets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Just now, Twh30 said: Wow thanks I will read and digest this info. The idea of having several threats all at different ranges . It just confuses your opponents priority targets I make a point nowadays to include 3-4. Jezzails are the best thing to throw through Gnawholes so they can usually get an angle on something hiding if needed. Fiends are more or less considered short range; with Lo,S giving them -1 to hit it makes those 6 Windlauncher shots sorta of 'meh' at killing heroes but combined with Jezzails means you can somewhat reliably kill 2 per turn at a minimum. Acolytes have a 20" threat range, but with their base sizes you may only get 20 or less of them in unless it's already quite close to you. HPA is there as it's a horde-clearer when it isn't bracketed too hard and it's good to have something that can fight in combat. Assuming we actually have our little local tournament this weekend (doubtful) then I may try an older list of Fiends+HPA+Jezzails again since I don't have Ratlings built yet... but we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakhov Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 All I have left to assemble is the verminlord. I tried finding a guide on how to build him with the possibility to be used in every options but can't seem to find one. At 100$ a pop I don't really want to buy another one so I guess I'll build a warpseer. Any of you was successful in building him with different options available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) It seems to me really that acolytes and to a lesser extent rattling guns have been under explored due to their ancient models and prohibitive prices. Battle bits and punga miniatures as well as simple converting has really opened up their use though if anyone is interested. To the verminlord question it's really easy to build him as skreech/warbringer/seer just by giving him the glaive and magnetising only his right arm if you dont mind the head not matching which I personally dont as the weapons are all WYSIWYG. The corrupted and deceiver are more difficult since you'd have to magnetize both arms but it shouldn't be too hard and I probably should have done it myself. Well I will on the second one and then I'll have access to all of them. Edited March 23, 2020 by The Red King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twh30 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, Gwendar said: I make a point nowadays to include 3-4. Jezzails are the best thing to throw through Gnawholes so they can usually get an angle on something hiding if needed. Fiends are more or less considered short range; with Lo,S giving them -1 to hit it makes those 6 Windlauncher shots sorta of 'meh' at killing heroes but combined with Jezzails means you can somewhat reliably kill 2 per turn at a minimum. Acolytes have a 20" threat range, but with their base sizes you may only get 20 or less of them in unless it's already quite close to you. HPA is there as it's a horde-clearer when it isn't bracketed too hard and it's good to have something that can fight in combat. Assuming we actually have our little local tournament this weekend (doubtful) then I may try an older list of Fiends+HPA+Jezzails again since I don't have Ratlings built yet... but we'll see. Cool keep us posted. Currently converting up 30 acolytes . Like the hpa for the anti horde instead of monks . The idea of the list I posted was to make ur opponent question whether to take 1st turn or not. If they do will have to hit screens (if deployed right) leaving open to counter attack from the shooting. Also the warpseer giving bs security means will have to completely kill screens to get rid of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhan Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 I did about 7 games with 3 or 4 rattling gunners, sometimes they all failed, blew themselves up and total missfailure😭 Other times they did good enough. True, they double the 2xd6 attacks when overcharged compared to fiends 3xd6, but when 3x of the rattlers rolls attacks that are 1 + 2, 2+2, 2+2 you want to cry😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakhov Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 18 minutes ago, The Red King said: It seems to me really that acolytes and to a lesser extent rattling guns have been under explored due to their ancient models and prohibitive prices. Battle bits and punga miniatures as well as simple converting has really opened up their use though if anyone is interested. To the verminlord question it's really easy to build him as skreech/warbringer/seer just by giving him the glaive and magnetising only his right arm if you dont mind the head not matching which I personally dont as the weapons are all WYSIWYG. The corrupted and deceiver are more difficult since you'd have to magnetize both arms but it shouldn't be too hard and I probably should have done it myself. Well I will on the second one and then I'll have access to all of them. I don't care about the head either. So all is have to do is magnetize both arms? Hmm, might take that project... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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