AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Gwendar]

6 hours ago, gronnelg said:

Boosting warp lighting canons - I always assumed it was warlock engineer keyword that count. But it the app it seems to be the unit warlock engineer? 

Since it isn't bolded\capitalized, then yeah I believe it's referring to the Engineer specifically. Hard to say 100% though as they both have the 'Warlock Engineer' keyword as you said.


Also, potentially looking at re-testing Bridge for myself with Fiends. 2 games today, both being total losses; OBR and Fyreslayers. I was just playing incredibly poorly today and making decisions I normally would not (such as choosing  to shoot a Liege Kavalos vs trying to cripple\kill Nagash) so I can only blame myself.. and 2x20 Hearthguard Berskers for tanking 30 Acolytes on a double turn (~40 damage one turn before their 4+ saves and ~50 the next turn) and still having ~5 models in each unit which is more than enough to wipe the Acolytes. Hermdar not having to take BS tests from practically anywhere on the board meant he wasn't losing any models anyway which is what I would've banked on normally. 

I will say one thing though... WLV went off in both games but wasn't enough to do much in either so I can safely retire it for the time being. I got lucky rolls of 11 +1 off with it both times but.. there's just too many points of failure with it and if it isn't rolling damage (I rolled lots of 1-3's on things within 1-2 nodes across 3 turns) it isn't doing much for 100 points. I could upgrade back up to a Bell for that or bring Night Runners.

Anyway, I'm probably going to play a Fiend + Jezzails + HPA with Bridge at the monthly meetup in a couple of weeks.. I really want to give it a chance again, but I'm not holding out for it. Afterwards, I'll probably give Skaven a rest for a month or so to clear my tactical mind a bit as I've been playing them almost weekly for months now 😉

Edited March 15, 2020 by Gwendar

[Malakhov]

14 hours ago, Cosmicsheep said:

Looks like you have a good start. It will depend on the style of play you go for, but you probably won't know that until you start. 

I would say definitely go for the 80 clanrats and 60 monks. The Hellpit is popular in the current meta. You'll need an engineer too. 

Anything else would be personal preference, but I would say that 3 jezzail aren't enough, nor is a single ratling gun. 

Rat ogres pack a punch if you want a melee army, but a second cannon  or doom wheel could be fun too. 

The best thing about Skaven is our choice of units

Enjoy 😁

There is so many possibilites and I love all models. I'm having a hard time picking what I want and what is good.

I went and bought some stuff from him since I got a great deal. That and coupled with the corrupting swarm box, this is what I have to my disposition right now:

80 clanrats
60 plague monks
1 verminlord
1 screaming bell with grey seer
1 unbuilt screaming bell with grey seer or a plague furnace with plague priest
1 warp lightning canon
1 unbuilt warp lightning canon or plagueclaw catapult
3 stormfiends
1 doom wheel
hell pit abomination
clawlord
2 warlock engineers
1 plague priest

 

Any recommendations for a begginer? I will read the battletome tonight but it's a bit intimidating for a begginer. So many spells, artifacts and units to chose from.

 

 

[gronnelg]

@Malakhov The follow list is a fairly good start at least.
You basically have three threats:
- Plague monks combined with screaming bell. The bell give +1 attack with the Skavenbrev artefact, and also cast deathfrenzy, so that killing plague monks will hurt your opponent back.
- Then you have 2 WLC boosted by 2 warlock engineers (who can also cast their own warplightning spell, if they have range). This second threat is primarly targeted at enemy heroes, to break synergies. 
- The HPA, which is just a scary creature in itself, and can hurt the opponent pretty back if left unchecked. 

With this list I would screen with clanrats, and try as best you can to not let your monks and HPA get charged. When the opponent charge and kill your screening clanrats, then you counter charge with the monks and HPA.
The doomwheel can attempt to take enemy objectives, and take out unprotected heroes. 

 

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Warlock Engineer (100)
Warlock Engineer (100)
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Skavenbrew
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear

Units
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Foetid Blades
1 x Doomwheel (160)
1 x Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
1 x Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Behemoths
Hell Pit Abomination (240)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 179

[Malakhov]

5 hours ago, gronnelg said:

@Malakhov The follow list is a fairly good start at least.
You basically have three threats:
- Plague monks combined with screaming bell. The bell give +1 attack with the Skavenbrev artefact, and also cast deathfrenzy, so that killing plague monks will hurt your opponent back.
- Then you have 2 WLC boosted by 2 warlock engineers (who can also cast their own warplightning spell, if they have range). This second threat is primarly targeted at enemy heroes, to break synergies. 
- The HPA, which is just a scary creature in itself, and can hurt the opponent pretty back if left unchecked. 

With this list I would screen with clanrats, and try as best you can to not let your monks and HPA get charged. When the opponent charge and kill your screening clanrats, then you counter charge with the monks and HPA.
The doomwheel can attempt to take enemy objectives, and take out unprotected heroes. 

 

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Warlock Engineer (100)
Warlock Engineer (100)
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Skavenbrew
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear

Units
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Foetid Blades
1 x Doomwheel (160)
1 x Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
1 x Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Behemoths
Hell Pit Abomination (240)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 179

Oh wow thanks for the list! Also glad to see it's all units I like the models of.

 

One thing though, it kind of makes me regret buying the corrupting swarm box, is it still good to keep around or should I trade it in for something else?

 

Basically id keep the box for the 2nd warp Canon, 20 monks and clanrats which I could get another way for cheap since I'm not using the verminlord, 2nd bell or plague furnace.

Or it's good to keep for added flexibility?

[Gwendar]

I know some people have been curious on Thanquol (and honestly, he's seen a bit of a resurgence in the competitive scene) so I quickly made something up. I won't say it's competitive.. but maybe it can be? Ratling Gun Teams are also present as they count as their own threat.. so I'll discuss that below the list:
 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Arch-Warlock (160)
- General
- Command Trait: Overseer of Destruction
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: Chain Warp Lightning
Grey Seer (140)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap
Thanquol on Boneripper (400)
- 4 Warpfire Projectors
- Lore of Ruin: Warpgale

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade

Units
1 x Ratling Gun (60)
1 x Ratling Gun (60)
1 x Ratling Gun (60)
9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)

Behemoths
Hell Pit Abomination (240)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Soulscream Bridge (80)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
 

So, what we have here altogether is:

Thanquol - Anti-Horde\Elite. Warpgale is going to hinder something that you don't want getting into you. In this regard I think Shackles\WLV would be a good choice, but not sure either take the place of an HPA. Thanquol with 4 Warpfire projectors will likely delete or come quite close to deleting those 20 Hearthguard blocks that are becoming more prevalent due to how good Fyreslayers are against shooting and the like.. which I think is one reason we're seeing him show up more.

Could you replace him with 4 Warpfire Thrower teams? Sure.. but I think he's a bit more resilient and efficient overall that makes him a good inclusion.. plus he nearly guarantees the Bridge gets off.

3x Ratling Guns - Anti.. anything. I compared these with 6 Fiends and honestly? I'm kind of wanting to try the Ratlings quite heavily over a Bridge which I think is mandatory with them. The damage between the two is somewhat close if you account for all buffs.. but if you fail MMMWP then then Ratlings get even closer. Obviously the Ratlings can spike higher\lower and have a good chance to kill themselves where as Fiends have more staying power. Overall, you have a 520p unit vs 180 points. Even with the inclusion of Bridge you're still getting a lot leftover.. not to mention with no need for MMMWP, you don't need another Engineer which saves 100p.

HPA - Anti-Horde\Elite. You all already know I prefer this over Monks who have largely changed to only being good at killing units with weak saves. The HPA can do a bit more and can take over\help in the horde deleting role with Thanquol. It's not 40 wounds on an objective, but it can still apply pressure and act on it's own. 

Jezzails - Delete\Cripple heroes.. but we knew that already. I'm curious trying 2x WLC's in place of them for less points (or about the same if you include another Engineer to overcharge). I won't be teleporting them to get sneak shots like you can with Jezzails but.. may be worth testing. Note that you can throw MMMWP on them, but I would only do this if you're trying to kill something important like Nagash, a Stonehorn, Terrorgheist, etc.

Oh, and just for fun the AW has Chain Warp Lightning so you can bounce some MW's around if able. The short range makes it hard but otherwise his only purpose is to keep the Ratling Guns RR'ing hits.. so feel free to include a Balewind for him 😉



Anyway yeah.. the world is ending apparently and work has been slow so I figured I would take my mind off everything going on by giving this idea some potential. Lots of things can actually be switched around, such as dropping the AW for a regular Engineer, throwing in WLV as it works well with Thanquol (of course you'll be throwing it out T2\3 rather than a ballsy T1 attempt) assuming you don't roll a bunch of 1-2's on the damage rolls like I have been. Can even swap out the HPA for Monks or Acolytes if you want. We have 4 threats here and you can easily take it down to 3 to include more support (such as Night Runner's, more Heroes, Clanrats, etc) if you feel it's needed. I dunno, curious on everyone's thoughts. I'm considering something else that drops Thanquol and you still take 3-4 Ratling Guns which would overall probably be more competitive.. but yeah. Stay safe people.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Gwendar

[Firefrog]

On 3/15/2020 at 4:24 PM, gronnelg said:

Boosting warp lighting canons - I always assumed it was warlock engineer keyword that count. But it the app it seems to be the unit warlock engineer? 

Book has the keyword ENGINEER in caps, which means any unit with the keyword can use it. That includes the Arch Warlock, Engineer and Bombardier

[Obeisance]

Do you guys find the HPA to be a bit squishy? I'm assembling one at the moment.

I got it secondhand on sprue. Literally coated in dust. I'm pretty sure it's red dirt, so it's been living in a shed in semi-rural Australia for a couple years.

[Malakhov]

From what I understand when playing the screaming bell, I need to have a vermindlord handy and ready to go? On a double 6 I summon one free of charge?

[Gwendar]

40 minutes ago, Obeisance said:

Do you guys find the HPA to be a bit squishy? I'm assembling one at the moment.

I got it secondhand on sprue. Literally coated in dust. I'm pretty sure it's red dirt, so it's been living in a shed in semi-rural Australia for a couple years.

No squishier than Plague Monks which it often replaces\is combined with. It always has a chance to come back and if it survives can heal a bit. It does bracket rather harshly however so you really need be careful with it.
 

Just now, Malakhov said:

From what I understand when playing the screaming bell, I need to have a vermindlord handy and ready to go? On a double 6 I summon one free of charge?

You don't need one as generally if you can't summon one you just do the other effect which is to heal it but that depends on your opponent. RAW that only happens the 2nd time you roll a 12. So TLDR, yes you need a VL on hand.

I generally find the Warpseer is a solid pick for this particular scenario.

[Verminlord]

Hey guys. How do we deal with hero based battleplans? I have been going without warpseer since his points increase and its fine except on these hero scenarios.

Also, tips for fighting slaanesh? My friend plays them very aggressively, giving me first turn before I can get in range and melting all my screens in his first turn usually. My list for context below.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Arch-Warlock (160)
- General
- Command Trait: Overseer of Destruction
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Bombardier (120)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
1 x Ratling Gun (60)
1 x Ratling Gun (60)
1 x Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
1 x Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
6 x Stormfiends (520)
- 2x Windlaunchers
- 2x Ratling Cannons
- 2x Doomflayer Gauntlets
Warpcog Convocation (60)
Arkhspark Voltik (60)
Arkhspark Voltik (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 154

Also been theorycrafting, trying to make moulder work. Its the moulder battalion with shooting support. I'm not sure if there's enough damage, but the idea was to throw the giants rats out as a second layer of screening and hopefully nab a respawn or two for objective grabbing or further stalling. thoughts? list below

Spoiler

Allegiance: Skaventide
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Arch-Warlock (160)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Master Moulder (100)
- General
- Command Trait: Verminous Valour
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
10 x Giant Rats (60)
10 x Giant Rats (60)
2 x Rat Ogors (100)
3 x Packmasters (60)
6 x Stormfiends (520)
- 2x Windlaunchers
- 2x Ratling Cannons
- 2x Doomflayer Gauntlets
9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)
Fleshmeld Menagerie (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 159

 

[Malakhov]

26 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

No squishier than Plague Monks which it often replaces\is combined with. It always has a chance to come back and if it survives can heal a bit. It does bracket rather harshly however so you really need be careful with it.
 

You don't need one as generally if you can't summon one you just do the other effect which is to heal it but that depends on your opponent. RAW that only happens the 2nd time you roll a 12. So TLDR, yes you need a VL on hand.

I generally find the Warpseer is a solid pick for this particular scenario.

Oh very nice, my verminlord wasnt used in the list posted above but I do have one from the swarm box and I love the model. While I understand it might not happen very often that's very nice, thank you!

[gronnelg]

15 hours ago, Gwendar said:

3x Ratling Guns - Anti.. anything. I compared these with 6 Fiends and honestly? I'm kind of wanting to try the Ratlings quite heavily over a Bridge which I think is mandatory with them. The damage between the two is somewhat close if you account for all buffs.. but if you fail MMMWP then then Ratlings get even closer. Obviously the Ratlings can spike higher\lower and have a good chance to kill themselves where as Fiends have more staying power. Overall, you have a 520p unit vs 180 points. Even with the inclusion of Bridge you're still getting a lot leftover.. not to mention with no need for MMMWP, you don't need another Engineer which saves 100p.

Glorious! Great list @Gwendar! Making room for Thanquol is awesome! I wonder though, how do you feel about giving him the 50/50 loadout? Now quite as brutal against hordes, but more versatile? Are you playing him more as a support hero in your list, and playing him aggressively?

[gronnelg]

15 hours ago, Malakhov said:

Oh wow thanks for the list! Also glad to see it's all units I like the models of.

 

One thing though, it kind of makes me regret buying the corrupting swarm box, is it still good to keep around or should I trade it in for something else?

 

Basically id keep the box for the 2nd warp Canon, 20 monks and clanrats which I could get another way for cheap since I'm not using the verminlord, 2nd bell or plague furnace.

Or it's good to keep for added flexibility?

Well, I mean, hopefully the list I proposed will not be the only list you ever play. So having surplus units to play around with  would be good. E.g. 2 x bells, playing around with a verminlord, 2 x 40 monks, etc. etc. Personally I would keep it, but it depends on your budget and whatever else wants your wallets attention  

[gronnelg]

Guys! Guys! The WLC doesn't have the ponderous war machine thing anymore. Can they now....run?

[Skreech Verminking]

21 minutes ago, gronnelg said:

Guys! Guys! The WLC doesn't have the ponderous war machine thing anymore. Can they now....run?

Yes, but it won’t be able to shoot afterwards

[gronnelg]

That is huge though! With a double turn suddenly your WLCs could potentially be within firing range

[Skreech Verminking]

1 minute ago, gronnelg said:

That is huge though! With a double turn suddenly your WLCs could potentially be within firing range

Or you just move it through a gnawhole and are in range by turn 1 😁😉

[Firefrog]

1 minute ago, gronnelg said:

That is huge though! With a double turn suddenly your WLCs could potentially be within firing range

And then you roll a 5 or 6 on your power level and you just wasted 180 points 😄

And double turn means it's their turn next, so say goodbye to all your shooting. Too random the WLc's, and maximum 6 MW is good, but hardly kills anything in the meta anymore of value and mostly everything has a ward save. I think the points are better spend on something else currently.

[Skreech Verminking]

2 minutes ago, Firefrog said:

And then you roll a 5 or 6 on your power level and you just wasted 180 points 😄

And double turn means it's their turn next, so say goodbye to all your shooting. Too random the WLc's, and maximum 6 MW is good, but hardly kills anything in the meta anymore of value and mostly everything has a ward save. I think the points are better spend on something else currently.

Actually the cannon is an extremely good tool for disrupting the line of Bonereaper warriors.

although they might have a huge problem when targeted by those big constructs shooting attacks

[gronnelg]

4 minutes ago, Firefrog said:

And then you roll a 5 or 6 on your power level and you just wasted 180 points 😄

And double turn means it's their turn next, so say goodbye to all your shooting. Too random the WLc's, and maximum 6 MW is good, but hardly kills anything in the meta anymore of value and mostly everything has a ward save. I think the points are better spend on something else currently.

I always take an engineer with me, so that's 7 MW on average from the WLC. And then there's always that 1/6 chance that you do a flat 12 MW. It's something the opponent can't just ignore. 

 

2 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Actually the cannon is an extremely good tool for disrupting the line of Bonereaper warriors.

although they might have a huge problem when targeted by those big constructs shooting attacks

Do you mean targeting their heroes and such?

[Skreech Verminking]

1 minute ago, gronnelg said:

Do you mean targeting their heroes and such?

Well technically anything in a bonereaper army will fall apart by a Warplightning cannon.

ignoring their armor really hurts them badly

[gronnelg]

@Skreech Verminking Yeah, I guess. Mortek guards still have a lot of wounds though, so I would rather target them with some other shooting like fiends or acolytes.  

[Gwendar]

4 hours ago, gronnelg said:

Glorious! Great list @Gwendar! Making room for Thanquol is awesome! I wonder though, how do you feel about giving him the 50/50 loadout? Now quite as brutal against hordes, but more versatile? Are you playing him more as a support hero in your list, and playing him aggressively?

Previously I did run him 50/50.. but my worry is resilient hordes such as 20 Hearthguard Berserkers, 30 Phoenix Guard, Chaos Warrior or Saurus Guard blobs, etc..  and 4 would be far more likely to kill them than just 2. In this capacity, he would be used more aggressively than as support.. which is why I suggested potentially running 4 Warpfire Throwers could be a better option for less. I would prefer Thanquol over that option, but that's more personal preference. I don't really need 2 Braziers for CC or chasing after Heroes because I have other units that take care of that.
 

3 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Actually the cannon is an extremely good tool for disrupting the line of Bonereaper warriors.

So is 9 Jezzails which 1-shot a 2+ 6++ Liege Kavalos with 8 wounds and ignoring the 1st wound taken. That isn't going to happen with the WLC unless you roll a power roll of 1 on an overcharge. I still somewhat ship 2 WLC's for less than 9 Jezzails, but overall in doing that you lose maneuverability. You can teleport 9 Jezzails and have them shoot at full strength (no Spark of course); you aren't doing that with a single WLC unless you Skitterleap an Engineer next to it ahead of time.. and even then on average you're going to do less.

I only still vouch for 2 WLC's simply because it doesn't care about Look Out, Sir and all that. Playing against a Forge Brethren + LotL Hermdar list meant his Heroes were getting a bunch of +1 to saves and were -1 to hit and wound so the Jezzails had a difficult time hurting them. And then of course they would just pass off wounds on a 4+ (which Saurus Guard do on a 2+ and have 2 wounds each so be prepared to have a hard time killing Seraphon Wizards) which took even longer. 2 WLC's would've at least negated all the -'s he was throwing out but for me it just meant I had to fish for 6's with the Jezzails. If you can afford to bring a double Arkhspark I think something can be said for them.. but I'm not sure that's ever going to be worth it for the points.

Edited March 17, 2020 by Gwendar

[Icefighter]

Hey, im thinking about going with a list based on 60 clan rats, arch-warlock, clawlord, 3 stormfiends as a starting point. Is something like this viable? And any ideas how to expand it. Aiming to reach 1500-2000p.

[Malakhov]

14 hours ago, gronnelg said:

Well, I mean, hopefully the list I proposed will not be the only list you ever play. So having surplus units to play around with  would be good. E.g. 2 x bells, playing around with a verminlord, 2 x 40 monks, etc. etc. Personally I would keep it, but it depends on your budget and whatever else wants your wallets attention  

Yeah I will try for other combinations once I get more experience. Ive also found nice conversion kits for jezzails so im seriously considering getting those to add to what I have.