Darkhan Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 @Gwendar deploy your bridge caster out of unbind range!;p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Darkhan said: @Gwendar deploy your bridge caster out of unbind range!;p Well yeah, but I'm saying you may get it off first turn.. it's just that 6 Windlaunchers shots aren't killing a LoC and I doubt anyone is going to put it within 12" for the Ratlings, same thing for their Flamers. The unbinding isn't what I'm worries about really.. it's more about deleting something important of theirs before they do yours. They have multiple.priority targets whereas in most Fiends lists it's going to be the Fiends alone. Taking out the Engineers drastically reduced their output obviously, but if it were me, I'd rather remove 3-4 Fiends T1 to nip that right away.. and keeping Fiends out of range of them is what's difficult. But hey, I'll be playing Tzeentch this weekend or next most likely so.. I'll have more feedback. Currently I'm redoing some lists.. interesting to see all the LVO lists only taking 60 Clanrats.. may need to re-evaluate my stance on that. The double arkhspark list with 6 Fiends, 60 Clanrats and WLV + Bridge is really catching my eye... Edited January 17, 2020 by Gwendar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhan Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 @Gwendar I have faith in 9 jezzails + 6 fiends;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 @Darkhan Yeah, and I still have that in mind but the WLC list seems interesting as previous iterations were with Gascloud and no Clanrats. To be honest, I'm curious to see how the list with the Hellpit works out.. I want to use it, but the 2d6" movement just kills it for me and my experience with that kind of movement comes from the Nightmare Predator taking 3 turns to go 14" 😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhan Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Gwendar said: @Darkhan Yeah, and I still have that in mind but the WLC list seems interesting as previous iterations were with Gascloud and no Clanrats. To be honest, I'm curious to see how the list with the Hellpit works out.. I want to use it, but the 2d6" movement just kills it for me and my experience with that kind of movement comes from the Nightmare Predator taking 3 turns to go 14" 😅 When I first started, and could not play for ******, I had a list that was 3x20 clanrats, Thanquol, engineer, arch warlock, 2x WLC, 6 fiends, and WLV. Would be fun to test that out again. No battalion tho. You could always take a Deceiver with gnawbomb and pop out a Hellpit:) not the best thing in the world without cogs tho. Or even toss him over a bridge hehe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 @Darkhan Definitely some new things to try, that's for sure... though as you all probably know I'm not keen on throwing in a Deceiver for a Gnawbomb. His place belongs in my Magic for 1 singular purpose; to teleport the killier Corruptor into something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 18 hours ago, Ineffectual Clawlord said: with 2x20 Horrors? Considering that those 200wound units cost around 800points, I don’t think dealing with those horros will be a nightmare. especially considering that 160clanrats for the same price will deal a ton of damage to those horrors in combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) Things didn't go great against Sylvaneth today.. though I guess it was about time for him to get one out of the 5-6+ games I've played against them 😉 Not gonna do a full report as I don't have much time, but I ran a 6 Fiend, 60 Clanrats and 2 WLC's under double Arkhspark with an AW, 2 Engineers and WLV + Bridge + Vermintide. My opponent ran Winterleaf and it was definitely his best choice to date. Total Conquest. I had priority choice so I opted to let him go first after pre-measuring everything out. Long story short, I played heavily for the double turn and while WLV + 1 WLC killed his Drycha and put 5 on his TLA the woods prevented the Ratlings from having any targets and the Windlaunchers only managed to get 4 through on a Wych. I lost the priority roll, he teleported his 6 Kurnoths 9" away (I premeasured 13" to keep them out of range, but failed to remember that the woods near the Fiends would allow them to teleport closer) they made the charge and that was it; all his hits explode on 6's and he had a OPG double pile-in ability and nothing can stand up to that many -2 rend d3 damage hits. I banked on the double which is something I rarely do and lost.. but it was entirely my fault as I played way to aggressively and didn't screen my Fiends. Total Conquest is something you can easily wait out until late game to win on so I really should've just held back, baited out the Spites + Kurnoths and them remove them with all my available shooting and then pushed out of my deployment by T3. Anyway, I'll try the list again as the WLC's didn't have a proper chance to shoot at anything thanks to his woods placement; that -1 to the power roll is definitely great as it pretty much turned my 2 MW's into 5 MW's when one of them shot off the Drycha. Next Saturday is our monthly "tournament" and I'll likely run the same thing to see how it does.. Sunday however I'll probably try something different. Gotta get the Skaven games in before I start playing Tzeentch for awhile 😅 Edited January 19, 2020 by Gwendar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 16 minutes ago, Gwendar said: I lost the priority roll... ...,Gotta get the Skaven games in before I start playing Tzeentch for awhile 😅 Priority roll is stupid. Just like the Green Bay Packers. Every game we play where we “win” that stupid priority roll and win the game should have an asterisk just like stupid Packers games where they get/ don’t get obvious fouls / penalties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 12 minutes ago, Coyote said: Priority roll is stupid. Just like the Green Bay Packers. Every game we play where we “win” that stupid priority roll and win the game should have an asterisk just like stupid Packers games where they get/ don’t get obvious fouls / penalties. I mean.. yeah, I know the debate has been going on for AoS' entirety and overall I've never been in favor of it but I deal with it and plan accordingly. Leaving everything up to that roll is asinine to me. While it can help you recover from being doubled, it also means that you could get completely crippled on that double no matter how you try to setup to deal with it and in our case, it could likely mean all Clanrats get destroyed leaving little left to deal with objectives. I tend to put myself in positions where I can get a good next turn whether I win it or not even if setting up for a double (which I tried in this game) would be better. This is going to be even worse with the amount of Flamer-spamming Changehost lists showing up, though the same thing applies to us, CoS with Bridge, etc. Rarely will you not take the priority when it's given; I would much rather play where I can plan things out knowing how it will go, but that could have it's own detriments I guess.. many say IGOUGO is boring but I don't see any other options as AoS would have to be re-written if it worked like Legion or Bolt Action (which I like the system in those). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Being double turned is stupid rule. We need a petition to present to GW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 @Coyote Well, I think GW have already acknowledged it and may potentially change it as questions about it came up in the last Big Community Survey.. though many assumed that would translate to a change in the 2019 GHB for some reason. I don't think we'll see anything different until at least this years and even then I'm not so sure it'll change. I've seen some suggestions in regards to mitigating it, such as the loser getting more CP and things like that.. who know's what will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Given the big rumor right now is that 40k will be adopting the double turn rule. It might get worse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhan Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Had two games this Saturday, both against the big wagh or whatever, lots of ardboyz😅 My list: 40x2 + 20 clanrats, 2 engineers, 6 stormfiends, 9 jezzails, 1 screaming bell, Warp lighting Vortex. Battleplan was focal points? I think the name is, two objective on each side, one in the middle. Making this short. With all hes pre-move crazyness, he charged 15 boyz into my screens on the left of 40 rats, clearing them out. Stormfiends hiding behind. Right flank, managed to only clear off 9 rats. Jezzails hiding behind. There was fighting over the middle objective for 2 turns..then I rolled a double six with the bell😂 And summoned a verminlord warpseer. He spawned over at his side, killing a single warchanter on a objective, 6 fiends shot away 25 ardboyz + 3 pigs (double turn from turn 2-3) and it was it. Oh yeah, Jezzails did alright, killed the megaboss and some boyz. If it was not for the vermindlord summon + double turn, I think Skaven would be running for the hills. I really would like to see some point decrease for Skaven this summer:/ or making 9 stormfiends legit again. Now for the hilarious game😂 Game 2 I had to try out my OBR. I gave him the first turn. He got to teleport 15 arboyz, pre-move 6 pigs, and charged 20 Mortek guard, 2 pigs hit the mortek guard, 4 others hit 5 kavalos riders. He took out...4 mortek guard, where I summoned 3 back my turn, so 1 Mortek guard😂😂😂😂😂 those rerolling saves are SO STRONG! 6 necropolis whiped out the 6 pigs. 15 arboydz got cleaned of that charged. Won the double, he conceded. What an army....even tho I dread Tzeentch flamer bombing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 7 hours ago, Vesper said: Given the big rumor right now is that 40k will be adopting the double turn rule. It might get worse? Oh.. oh no. Considering I already hear constantly how terrible 40k is for the shooting alpha blasting your opponent from across the table T1 that sounds pretty horrific...luckily I don't play 40k which is why I also shouldn't comment about it 😉 4 hours ago, Darkhan said: or making 9 stormfiends legit again. He took out...4 mortek guard, where I summoned 3 back my turn, so 1 Mortek guard What an army....even tho I dread Tzeentch flamer bombing. Yeah... I was definitely feeling the limits of 6 Fiends a bit on Sunday, though it was my own fault for allowing 6 Kurnoths with exploding hits + double pile-in to charge them.. I'm too used to playing OBR where I can be pretty aggressive with those 3+ saves😅. 6 Fiends will still work quite well, but it definitely feels like a bigger hit than I anticipated. Speaking of OBR, yeah.. people around here are not particularly keen on playing them but I haven't had anyone outright refuse yet. Still up in the air about what I'm bringing this weekend to the tournament between Sundays Skaven list and another OBR list. Anyway, nice to see things worked out.. anything you'd change for Skaven? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhan Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 @Gwendar yeah, I made that mistake as well, bridge 6 fiends, just to get annihilated. 9 fiends I was not worried about at all. Why I dropped the bridge, and just put them behind a screen of 40 rats. If 15 ardboyz did a charge on them, I bet they would be seriously toast. In that list, maybe drop the WLV, replace 1x engineer for arch-warlock + vermintide. Skitterleap did never go off, nor did the WLV. MMWP went off 1 time, even with re-rolls, horrible! I tried verminous valour on one engineer, never needed. So would rather put the re-rolling hits trait on a AW. MMWP + Vigordust on fiends was...insane. That happened in BR3. Cracks call spell did surprisingly well, with the boyz having a movement of 4". I felt like missing another unit...maybe acolytes or monks. Cause the clanrats went away pretty fast. Also not going first without a command point for BS immunity can be pretty dangerous, hard to fit 100 clanrats around 1 bell😂 While 9 jezzails is pretty awesome, there is room to swap them out with some acolytes and something else. Swapping out 9 jezzails + WLV will make room for this: 25 acolytes, 1x Cannon, Arch warlock, extra command point. I do too much theory crafting:/ Curious to try out a Deceiver bomb list. With 40 or 80 monks underground. And bomb a hellpit out of the gnawbomb hole. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laststand Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 19 hours ago, Gwendar said: Things didn't go great against Sylvaneth today.. though I guess it was about time for him to get one out of the 5-6+ games I've played against them 😉 Not gonna do a full report as I don't have much time, but I ran a 6 Fiend, 60 Clanrats and 2 WLC's under double Arkhspark with an AW, 2 Engineers and WLV + Bridge + Vermintide. My opponent ran Winterleaf and it was definitely his best choice to date. Total Conquest. I had priority choice so I opted to let him go first after pre-measuring everything out. Long story short, I played heavily for the double turn and while WLV + 1 WLC killed his Drycha and put 5 on his TLA the woods prevented the Ratlings from having any targets and the Windlaunchers only managed to get 4 through on a Wych. I lost the priority roll, he teleported his 6 Kurnoths 9" away (I premeasured 13" to keep them out of range, but failed to remember that the woods near the Fiends would allow them to teleport closer) they made the charge and that was it; all his hits explode on 6's and he had a OPG double pile-in ability and nothing can stand up to that many -2 rend d3 damage hits. I banked on the double which is something I rarely do and lost.. but it was entirely my fault as I played way to aggressively and didn't screen my Fiends. Total Conquest is something you can easily wait out until late game to win on so I really should've just held back, baited out the Spites + Kurnoths and them remove them with all my available shooting and then pushed out of my deployment by T3. Anyway, I'll try the list again as the WLC's didn't have a proper chance to shoot at anything thanks to his woods placement; that -1 to the power roll is definitely great as it pretty much turned my 2 MW's into 5 MW's when one of them shot off the Drycha. Next Saturday is our monthly "tournament" and I'll likely run the same thing to see how it does.. Sunday however I'll probably try something different. Gotta get the Skaven games in before I start playing Tzeentch for awhile 😅 Wait, am I being dumb or can you not take skryre battalions if you have clan rats in your list? I thought you had to be pure 1 clan to get battleline and use the battalions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Darkhan said: In that list, maybe drop the WLV, replace 1x engineer for arch-warlock + vermintide. Skitterleap did never go off, nor did the WLV. MMWP went off 1 time, even with re-rolls, horrible! I tried verminous valour on one engineer, never needed. So would rather put the re-rolling hits trait on a AW. While 9 jezzails is pretty awesome, there is room to swap them out with some acolytes and something else. Swapping out 9 jezzails + WLV will make room for this: 25 acolytes, 1x Cannon, Arch warlock, extra command point. The benefit of running Bridge is that I can also use it as a way to get an Engineer\AW closer for a decent WLV. I just can't get rid of it... when it works for me and does tons of mortals it usually pays it off (Sunday it did 5 and 5 to the Drycha and TLA) but.. I dunno, I may build something without it and see how it works. Anyway, without MMMWP the Fiends are especially lackluster at 6 now so that's why they can feel far more underwhelming now. I wasn't sold on my double Arkhspark but.. all the woods make it difficult for them to do much; I'll have to try them out again. While I would like to run Acolytes, I just can't justify them without MMMWP and the Fiends are always going to get that. I would much rather bring Monks and they'll be doing a bit more damage on average.. but 30 Monks vs 20 Acolytes (no buffs, again because of Fiends) leaves a lot to be desired for either really...:EDIT: Something like this is what I've been considering as my "balance" list: Spoiler Allegiance: SkaventideLeadersGrey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)- General- Trait: Master of Magic- Lore of Ruin: Death FrenzyWarlock Engineer (100)- Artefact: Vigordust Injector- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!Warlock Engineer (100)- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!Battleline20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Blade20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Blade20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty BladeUnits6 x Stormfiends (520)- 2x Windlaunchers- 2x Ratling Cannons- 2x Shock Gauntlets40 x Plague Monks (280)- Woe-staveWar MachinesDoomwheel (160)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsWarp Lightning Vortex (100)Soulscream Bridge (80)Extra Command Point (50)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 167 Could totally take out the Doomwheel + Bridge\WLV for a Hellpit if you so choose. I'm still not convinced on it's 2d6" movement.. but I can't knock it till I try it. 19 minutes ago, Laststand said: Wait, am I being dumb or can you not take skryre battalions if you have clan rats in your list? I thought you had to be pure 1 clan to get battleline and use the battalions? There is no rule stating you need to be 100% of a Clan to use it's battalions; the only thing that does is unlock certain battleline options. Edited January 20, 2020 by Gwendar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhan Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) @Gwendar stats of the holy😂Nice nice. Only, monks you need to get a charge, acolytes you don't, I need to try acolytes first tho before I give any judgement at all. Yeah, cannons are meh against Sylvaneth, nice vs everything else tho. You have a point about the bridge:) I also very much like it, but like I said, curse GW for making a 6 limit unit. Also converting skitarii rangers into acolytes just makes me droll by the looks. Insane cool, toss some skaven blood bowl team tails under those robes, and the arms, clanrat/plague monk sword arms, you got yourself some hardcore sci-fi acolytes! This made me cry a little, skaven pestilence list with tons of monks placed second last:( 4 loss, 1 win. https://tabletop.to/Tempest2020 EDIT: Also, acolytes + stormfiends will also be a nice counter for the tzeentch flamer bombing (unless he makes you go first and he gets the double turn). Sacrifice 40 clanrats making a line over the whole board, place the rest of the army 9" away from those 40 up ahead, your turn, move/run the acolytes, move the stormfiends, and BLAST the flamers away. Good riddance. Edited January 20, 2020 by Darkhan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Darkhan said: monks you need to get a charge, acolytes you don't Also, acolytes + stormfiends will also be a nice counter for the tzeentch flamer bombing (unless he makes you go first and he gets the double turn). Sacrifice 40 clanrats making a line over the whole board, place the rest of the army 9" away from those 40 up ahead, your turn, move/run the acolytes, move the stormfiends, and BLAST the flamers away. Good riddance. Right, which does give the Acolytes a 14"-20" threat range compared to what Monks get depending how well that charge goes.. but again, those 32mm bases can lessen that a bit. At the very least you can consider them as redundancy in case the Fiends get blown up or vice-versa. They would be.. however it's usually very difficult for you to hide or outrange those units against Flamers and any decent player is going to shoot them off the board by doing the exact thing you're describing with a double-turn. The Fiends would be able to do something thanks to the Windlaunchers, however if it were me I would be premeasuring the hell out them and deploy the Flamers out of range. With their 27" threat range they would be able to wait out the Fiends\Acolytes and just shoot them off next turn. There was a guy at that same tournament who had a list with 18 Flamers.. but the BCR player who got first beat it so, who knows. Edited January 20, 2020 by Gwendar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kugane Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Happy (early) year of the horned rat all! I hope GW capitalizes on it and releases new Skaven! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhan Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 @Gwendar hmmm I guess 9 jezzails or 2 crawlers would do better in that scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drcrabs Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) The more and more I look at the updated 'nerfed' plague monks warscroll I feel that at least with the woe-staff option there isn't much of a 'nerf' as some were claiming. I know the loss of split weapon profiles hurts the compounding attack gains the unit can acquire and the loss of 6's to hit gaining rend can hurt but I really wasn't relying on that unit for rend anyways. The gain of one more attack and easier to wound on the Woe-Staff option is really good especially depending on how many 2'' ranged monks you can get it on an enemy unit. Another bonus gained is from standard ability to allocated mortal wounds back to the attacking enemy but now its any enemy unit within 3'' of the model instead of just the attacking enemy. I also really like the upgrade to the Book-of-Woe option not replacing the weapon option now so a monk can use the book and the Woe-Staff technically. I could be wrong though as I'm not experienced with the army just yet, still just looking at things in pure numbers. Any who, I took some advice from @Ineffectual Clawlord and updated my list to have more balanced / long ranged shooting and more survivability on the Arch-Warlock Allegiance: SkaventideLeadersArch-Warlock (160)- General- Trait: Overseer of Destruction- Artefact: Ignax's Scales- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)- Lore of Ruin: Death FrenzyWarlock Engineer (100)- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!Battleline20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Blade20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Blade20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Blade Artillery9x Warplock Jezzails (420) Units40 x Plague Monks (280)- Woe-Staff20 x Skryre Acolytes (240)3 x Ratling Guns(180)Total: 1980 / 2000 *Fixed* Illegally had two artefacts Edited January 20, 2020 by Drcrabs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhan Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 @Drcrabs you can only have 1 artefact:/ sadly screaming bell can't have the vigordust injector. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drcrabs Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Darkhan said: @Drcrabs you can only have 1 artefact:/ sadly screaming bell can't have the vigordust injector. You right, I done goofed. Minus the vigordust injector. I was working on a few lists so I think that is what happened. Thank you! Edited January 20, 2020 by Drcrabs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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