AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[KingOfSuede]

They honestly do Verminous better than Verminous since almost everything hits HARD. Definitely synergy based though as your strength comes from the 13" bubbles of your Packmasters and Master Moulders which are both easy to pick off in a hero or shooting phase. I did have a Master Moulder survive two rounds of combat against Durthu in my previous game (due to my opponent rolling terribly, but still, Scurry Away is a strong ability).  

But yeah Rat Ogors being 3+/3+rr with 4 attacks each at 2 damage, a unit of 30+ Giant Rats being 2+/4+rr with 3" attacks (!!!) and HPAs with their MWs and -2/2 damage, -3/3 damage attacks are super strong. Thanquol weapons being split 2/2 has also been incredibly strong in the situations he's found himself in. His warscroll spell is honestly his worst attribute 😂

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Lord Krungharr A good thought. Ghyrstrike does seem like the best move. You did make me re-read the realm artifacts and found some other goodies worth trying out. Offensively, I like Anraheirs Claws (+2 dmg on 6+ to wound) and Blade of Endings (+2 dmg on 6+ to hit). On the attack, I always felt his weakness was his base damage and so I was inspired by these. Its weird because these two can be abused because bonuses to hit and wound help with the proc. But skaven don't have stuff like that generally, instead this guy loves to re-roll wounds.

Defensively, I like your thought on just tagging a scary shooty unit by making him scarily good at taking the hit for the rest of the army. Honestly I just chuckle looking at Gryph-feather charm so he has -3 to shoot him. The -1 to hit is great against large numbers of attacks and so tagging big blocks of ungor or goblins is still a viable option. 

[Lord Krungharr]

With the Deceiver's CA maybe the Blade of Endings is the way to go for offensive.  Gryph-feather Charms look great on everyone!  (Even my Troggoth Hag.)

[Kimbo]

Building my Skaventide army and i'm eager to play at 1k before i go up to the 2k bracket with my new army. 

Anyone got some advice on a solid, strong 1k army? Something you've tried? 

Would love to get some inspiration! 👏

[Kimbo]

On 11/30/2019 at 9:45 PM, Lord Krungharr said:

With the Deceiver's CA maybe the Blade of Endings is the way to go for offensive.  Gryph-feather Charms look great on everyone!  (Even my Troggoth Hag.)

Blade of Symmetry maybe? 

-3 rend, D3 + 1 dmg? Sounds good to me! 

Edited December 1, 2019 by Kimbo

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

9 hours ago, Kimbo said:

Building my Skaventide army and i'm eager to play at 1k before i go up to the 2k bracket with my new army. 

Anyone got some advice on a solid, strong 1k army? Something you've tried? 

Would love to get some inspiration! 👏

Doomwheels!

I have spoken

[Skreech Verminking]

12 hours ago, Kimbo said:

Building my Skaventide army and i'm eager to play at 1k before i go up to the 2k bracket with my new army. 

Anyone got some advice on a solid, strong 1k army? Something you've tried? 

Would love to get some inspiration! 👏

80Clanrats, 40 Stormvermins, A clawlord, and a cp.

perfect for relentlessly overrunning your Frenemys

[Lord Krungharr]

19 hours ago, Kimbo said:

Blade of Symmetry maybe? 

-3 rend, D3 + 1 dmg? Sounds good to me! 

For the Warpseer I think that would be awesome; the Deceiver is already -3 rend with his stiletto.

[Kimbo]

2 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

For the Warpseer I think that would be awesome; the Deceiver is already -3 rend with his stiletto.

Huh?  The artifact Adds +1 on the damage of the weapon.  What does that have to do with the rend? Just nice to get more reliable dmg instead of relying soly on the D3 per attack! 

[Xasto]

How does people go about building a strong stormfiend list? What are the required buffs to make them worthwile with their massive shooting?

[Ser_namron]

Playing my buddies OBR army tonight. I was gonna make a real shooty list, but ills ave that for later games. I instead built a list that should make for a really fun game where he can show off some new toys and i can go full Skaventide.  With tides of Skaven >:D

Thanqoul
Grey seer on bell
death frenzy/ master of magic/suspicious stone

Clan rats x20- 3x

5 warpfire throwers
40 plague monks
40 plague monks
WLV

1990/2000

The plan is to walk up to his face, melt some bone people with warpflames, and absorb the losses with my dead rats numbers. I'll have the plague monks on the flanks ( TBH ive never run them so im not sure where i should position them since i want that charge to get off), and the bell behind keeping everything BS immune.  Hopefully get a WLV off. 

is it the best list? No.
Will the dice be rolled tonight in mass. ****** ya. 

Edit* maybe ill keep the monks behind the clan rats so when they all die in CC i can counter charge? Whats the normal strat for plaguemonks??

Edited December 2, 2019 by Ser_namron

[polishsausage]

My friend wants me to play Aos, but my competitive edge has been off for years.

He sent me a list that is "funziez" and might randomly win or lose games:

 

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Arch-Warlock (160)
- General
Warlock Engineer (100)
Warlock Engineer (100)
Warlock Engineer (100)
Warlock Engineer (100)
Warlock Engineer (100)

Battleline
3 x Stormfiends (260)
3 x Stormfiends (260)
3 x Stormfiends (260)

War Machines
Doomwheel (160)
Doomwheel (160)
Doomwheel (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Bell of Doom (40)
Vermintide (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000

 

He also mentioned that I could squeez this  in $300.00 and have a blast playing it.

Is it worth looking into / can I randomly show up to a tournament and still play this? (I like the very low model count for transportation )

[Gwendar]

7 hours ago, Xasto said:

How does people go about building a strong stormfiend list? What are the required buffs to make them worthwile with their massive shooting?

Typically it revolves around 1x9 or 1x6 (if you plan to bring other things like 1x9-12 Jezzails, 2x40 Monks, etc). With buffs you're really just looking to get MMMWP on them to re-roll all hits and wounds and you can combine that with Vigordust Injector for a further +1 to hit which can really help with the sniping capability of the Windlaunchers. Other than those, you'll also be giving them a Warpspark to give them +1 damage.

Typically with lists like this, I and many others run 2-3 Warlock Engineers\Bombardiers (or you can throw in an Arch-Warlock + Engineer) all with MMMWP as their spell to build up redundancy; you don't get that spell off or lose your only Wizard that has it and you drastically cut the damage potential of them. I'll make a shout-out to the Soulscream Bridge as well; it can really help project them further up the board T1 or get them where they need to be later on. It's quite a cumbersome unit though and they're very susceptible to being blocked which is evidenced with a lot of tournament videos showing Changehost and other armies keep them from getting in range of anything.

6 hours ago, Ser_namron said:

Will the dice be rolled tonight in mass. ****** ya. 

You better hope he doesn't have any Crawlers then 😉. I play OBR as well and I think it's a good matchup, but you really gotta be careful. Though if you aren't aiming for a comp. game then I guess it doesn't matter.. if you manage to get those Plague Monks into those Mortek Guard without a Harvester nearby, they can actually do decently at ripping them apart with the sheer weight, though they suffer more from MW's and high-rend attacks. Those WFT's can do well, but throwing a Crawler shot on each one could end that pretty quickly. 
 

1 hour ago, polishsausage said:

-snip-

Is it worth looking into / can I randomly show up to a tournament and still play this? (I like the very low model count for transportation )

I don't want to be overly critical, but you would not do well with that at all at any kind of competitive tournament. If you want to run Stormfiend heavy, you need 3 Engineers (or 1 AW + 1-2 Engineers) max.. having that many is just a bit pointless. It's better to take Stormfiends as 1x9 or 1x6 but you would need fill Battleline with either 3x20 Clanrats or getting Acolytes as they count as battleline. Nothing wrong with taking 3x3 Fiends, but I think you would want at least 1 unit of that to be 6 or 9 strong for taking buffs (see the first post here to Xasto). Also, I would never buy the GW Acolytes unless you have disposable income; they're incredibly easy to convert out of other GW bits and if you only need 5-10 to fill Battleline then you should be good.

Now, if you could cast MMMWP on everything from each Engineer, sure, that would be decent... but we don't live in that world 😉

Edited December 3, 2019 by Gwendar

[Lord Krungharr]

9 hours ago, Kimbo said:

Huh?  The artifact Adds +1 on the damage of the weapon.  What does that have to do with the rend? Just nice to get more reliable dmg instead of relying soly on the D3 per attack! 

Oh I thought you meant the Blade of Symmetry also gives -3 rend and the extra damage.  

Though I don't think Skaven would be fond of Hysh, they probably would like stealing things from there.  Sash of the 10 Paradises on the Warpseer, or maybe the Aetherquartz Brooch?

If they went to the opposite realm, the Warpseer could have the Dimensional Blade for rend -3 and the Deceiver could rock the Sword of Judgement  to theoretically do some extra damage to Heroes and Monsters in mortal wounds.  He could choose his targets carefully too with his spell to avoid -1 to hit debuffs.

Anraheir's Claw from Ghur is pretty good at +2 damage on hits of 6+.  

Chamon has some interesting ones too, like the rend-3 of a Rune Blade, and the Hydroxskin Cloak.

[Ineffectual Clawlord]

Blade of Symmetry (+1 damage) is better than Ghyrstrike (+1 to hit and wound) as long as the Deceiver hasn't suffered 3 or more wounds or as long as you re-roll wound rolls via his command ability.

All the other weapon options (anraheit's Claw, Blade of Ending) are worse on average. They share the same problem with Sword of Judgement: they don't work if affected by - to hit and we lack options to provide + to hit. That being said, all of them are rather close and it will depend on the result of D3 rolls.

 

The general problem with putting damage artifacts on our heroes is that they don't profit a whole lot when compared with Vigordust Injector (or Rabid Crown for Moulder). Adding 2 - 3 to the damage of a Deceiver just doesn't compare to +1 to hit on Fiends, Monks, Stormvermin... even Clanrats in most situations.

@Kimbo

Given that the 1k format is usually more casual, maybe don't bring 120+ wounds.

However what better opportunity to bring your 160 Clanrats?

[Skreech Verminking]

4 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Oh I thought you meant the Blade of Symmetry also gives -3 rend and the extra damage.  

Though I don't think Skaven would be fond of Hysh, they probably would like stealing things from there.  Sash of the 10 Paradises on the Warpseer, or maybe the Aetherquartz Brooch?

If they went to the opposite realm, the Warpseer could have the Dimensional Blade for rend -3 and the Deceiver could rock the Sword of Judgement  to theoretically do some extra damage to Heroes and Monsters in mortal wounds.  He could choose his targets carefully too with his spell to avoid -1 to hit debuffs.

Anraheir's Claw from Ghur is pretty good at +2 damage on hits of 6+.  

Chamon has some interesting ones too, like the rend-3 of a Rune Blade, and the Hydroxskin Cloak.

If you want a Verminlord, that is really meant for combat, I’d rather take the Warbringer instead of the seer, with the rune blade on his doom glaive.

it really is a fantastic combination.

And should there be a time where you really want something to die, the brital fury commandtrait will help your Warbringer a lot.

perfect for killing any hero with 12 or more wounds or multiple heroes in the same time.

Although don’t use it on morathi, because she will tank it like a pro

Edited December 3, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Ser_namron]

8 hours ago, Gwendar said:

You better hope he doesn't have any Crawlers then 😉. I play OBR as well and I think it's a good matchup, but you really gotta be careful. Though if you aren't aiming for a comp. game then I guess it doesn't matter.. if you manage to get those Plague Monks into those Mortek Guard without a Harvester nearby, they can actually do decently at ripping them apart with the sheer weight, though they suffer more from MW's and high-rend attacks. Those WFT's can do well, but throwing a Crawler shot on each one could end that pretty quickly. 

he hasn't built his crawlers yet because he knows none of us will want to play with him anymore once he does lol. Our playgroup is very casual and doesn't mind bringing powerful stuff or meta lists, but those crawlers are just something else, and he wants to actually have people to play his new army against lol.  And he will def build them and we will play them, and we will learn to live with them...but we all know that thing is straight up busted so noones in a rush to face it.

So we decided to play with realm rules. Rolled Ulgu, had our spells/ranged capped to 12" . Battleplan was....idr its name lol. It was similar to knife to the heart  but the one thats only 9" from the center of your side. 

I threw my original plan for the plaguemonks in the trash, and used the ulgu realm command ability to teleport to different table edges with them because that was more fun. Tried to get on their flanks. Which i did, i had 2 40x blobs ready to crash into his side. But then he buffed a unit of Mortek gaurd with the whole arsenal of exploding 5s, FNP 5+, reroll shields. All the good stuff. And we deicided to see if a unit of plaguemonks on the charge could kill that fully buffed unit. I 100% could have avoided it, or put them anywhere else ont he board ( like the other flank with non buffed mortek) but we figured this would be a fun showcase of both units potential. 

The answer was no lol. all 40 got into range, i rolled all my attacks, had 27 go through with -1 rend, a handful of those turned into 2 dmg. and then about 90 actual wounds went through with a handful of 2 dmg. He lost 9 mortek. ( he didnt have a harvester near this unit, so big ol lulz this wasnt even them at their tankiest) . On the swing back he took 13 monks, and battleshock took 7 more ( moved them completely out of range of my bells reach lol.) next battle round the monks killed like 4 or 5 of them somehow ( had half the attacks) and he took out another 12, and the rest failed battleshock and fled. So the mortek had soem decent offense, but really nothing to crazy, Monks die to a stiff breeze anyways.  I think i got 2 mortals through with their on death ability, but he shrugged both those off with a 6+/5+

Then i charged another full unit into a liege kavalos, got like 4 wounds through lol. But then he rolled like GARBAGE, and killed 2 rats. So that was just a real sad showing on both parts lol. 

Thanqoul toasted some mortek gaurd with his 4x warpthrowers, they retreated and the stalkers came up, made a charge into my clanrat bubble and got into range for combat with thanqoul. but he forgot i could scurry away with my leaders, so he activated elsewhere and Thanqoul moved away from the stalkers. Then i got initiative, and had 4 warpthrowers weapons teams and thanqoul with 4 warpthrowers unload into the stalkers, killed 4/6. 

Then he took those 2 stalkers ( buffed to -4/ 3 damage lol)  charged into my 20 blob protecting my point, moved his mortek that had been damaged ( but were now close to fully healed with the harvester nearby) and won the point and ended the game. 

It was a pretty fun match, we both got to roll a ****** ton of dice. It was a good initial match against a new army, now i have a better understanding of what needs to go. Plaguemonks are great, but with no rend trying to get damage through on a 3/3/6/5 ( with another 4+ if a harvesters near) is just not going to happen. I charged into the most buffed unit he had though, in the name of science. Also the healing on large units is really frustrating. i had 9 mortals go through into his harvester with the first WLV i got off, and by the start of his next turn he had full health again. 

This is hands down the hardest to kill army in the game. When i fight them next time ill be bringing all the warp power. Jezzails will go for the harvester or the soul mason, warp lightning cannons will go for the harvester or the stalkers. Doomwheels could probably get some good damage into non buffed units. Stormfiends usually disappoint me, but im sure they can get some good shots in. The warp teams and thanqoul probably had their best performance out of any games ive played with them though, so that was cool. 

Good match, tough army, needs MORE MORE MORE WARPPOWER for next time.

 

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Ser_namron said:

1)he hasn't built his crawlers yet because he knows none of us will want to play with him anymore once he does lol. Our playgroup is very casual and doesn't mind bringing powerful stuff or meta lists, but those crawlers are just something else, and he wants to actually have people to play his new army against lol.  And he will def build them and we will play them, and we will learn to live with them...but we all know that thing is straight up busted so noones in a rush to face it.

2)So we decided to play with realm rules. Rolled Ulgu, had our spells/ranged capped to 12" . Battleplan was....idr its name lol. It was similar to knife to the heart  but the one thats only 9" from the center of your side. 

I threw my original plan for the plaguemonks in the trash, and used the ulgu realm command ability to teleport to different table edges with them because that was more fun. Tried to get on their flanks. Which i did, i had 2 40x blobs ready to crash into his side. But then he buffed a unit of Mortek gaurd with the whole arsenal of exploding 5s, FNP 5+, reroll shields. All the good stuff. And we deicided to see if a unit of plaguemonks on the charge could kill that fully buffed unit. I 100% could have avoided it, or put them anywhere else ont he board ( like the other flank with non buffed mortek) but we figured this would be a fun showcase of both units potential. 

The answer was no lol. all 40 got into range, i rolled all my attacks, had 27 go through with -1 rend, a handful of those turned into 2 dmg. and then about 90 actual wounds went through with a handful of 2 dmg. He lost 9 mortek. ( he didnt have a harvester near this unit, so big ol lulz this wasnt even them at their tankiest) . On the swing back he took 13 monks, and battleshock took 7 more ( moved them completely out of range of my bells reach lol.) next battle round the monks killed like 4 or 5 of them somehow ( had half the attacks) and he took out another 12, and the rest failed battleshock and fled. So the mortek had soem decent offense, but really nothing to crazy, Monks die to a stiff breeze anyways.  I think i got 2 mortals through with their on death ability, but he shrugged both those off with a 6+/5+

Then i charged another full unit into a liege kavalos, got like 4 wounds through lol. But then he rolled like GARBAGE, and killed 2 rats. So that was just a real sad showing on both parts lol. 

Thanqoul toasted some mortek gaurd with his 4x warpthrowers, they retreated and the stalkers came up, made a charge into my clanrat bubble and got into range for combat with thanqoul. but he forgot i could scurry away with my leaders, so he activated elsewhere and Thanqoul moved away from the stalkers. Then i got initiative, and had 4 warpthrowers weapons teams and thanqoul with 4 warpthrowers unload into the stalkers, killed 4/6. 

Then he took those 2 stalkers ( buffed to -4/ 3 damage lol)  charged into my 20 blob protecting my point, moved his mortek that had been damaged ( but were now close to fully healed with the harvester nearby) and won the point and ended the game. 

It was a pretty fun match, we both got to roll a ****** ton of dice. It was a good initial match against a new army, now i have a better understanding of what needs to go. Plaguemonks are great, but with no rend trying to get damage through on a 3/3/6/5 ( with another 4+ if a harvesters near) is just not going to happen. I charged into the most buffed unit he had though, in the name of science. Also the healing on large units is really frustrating. i had 9 mortals go through into his harvester with the first WLV i got off, and by the start of his next turn he had full health again. 

This is hands down the hardest to kill army in the game. When i fight them next time ill be bringing all the warp power. Jezzails will go for the harvester or the soul mason, warp lightning cannons will go for the harvester or the stalkers. Doomwheels could probably get some good damage into non buffed units. Stormfiends usually disappoint me, but im sure they can get some good shots in. The warp teams and thanqoul probably had their best performance out of any games ive played with them though, so that was cool. 

Good match, tough army, needs MORE MORE MORE WARPPOWER for next time.

 

1)I wouldn’t call the Crawler overpowered.

sure it can do 2powerful attacks, that can only be used ones each, and a no rend high damage shooting attack for everything else.

his bravery bomb for any low bravery unit like clanrats, Stormvermin etc. can easily. E avpided by taking a clalword on brood horror/clawlord on foot, and giving him the mighty warlordtrait: “savage overlord”, which will give all your skaventide units wholly within 18 an additional bravery.

and if your somebody like me who enjoys playing verminus heavy that extra bravery buff from the clalword on brood horror will give you some additional buffs for your clanrats and stormvermins.

great for ignoring those bombs int total or mostly.

2) great battlereport though, enjoyed reading it.

 

ps: there’s also a realm artefact able to grant your units a +1 bravery buff if they’re wholly within 9 inches of the bearer.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Ser_namron]

3 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

1)I wouldn’t call the Crawler overpowered.

i think its definitely undercosted for what it does, and what it does is pretty crazy.  36" range +4" from movement. So already the longest threat range in the game from artillery.  3 attacks at 2/3 - the best base profile for hit/wound from all artillery ( might need to double check that, but none of the empire or SCE have those numbers, closest is ballistar with 3/3)  no rend but 5 base dmg per attack.  Youve got a GREAT chance ( i dont have the math ) of making all 3 of those shots.  Thats pretty dang reliable damage into the right units, and even the armored ones only have to whiff once to take a massive wound, and their are plenty of 5 wound heroes with  no FNP.  12 wounds to boot ( that can be healed by the army but im not taking army effects into account). PLus its other 2 abilities that can outright kill a hero with 9 wounds right off the bat, or one with even higher wounds if it gets damaged.  The thing is REALLY good for 200 points with nothing else helping it. Other artillery really needs to have other units buffing it or activating its abilities, this thing just wrecks face by being there. 

3 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

ps: there’s also a realm artefact able to grant your units a +1 bravery buff if they’re wholly within 9 inches of the bearer.

Having to spend a artifact or general trait to better my chances at surviving 1 unit from 1 army is pretty unrealistic.  In a 1v1 matchup like this where i know what he has i could see taking it .But as far as competitive play goes, your not gonna kit your allcomers list with those things. 

im a bit of a pessimist though, so we will have to wait and see how the meta handles it, but on paper, Crawlers are fantastic for their cost. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

2) great battlereport though, enjoyed reading it.

 

Thanks, figured id throw my experience out for this new army im sure most of us will be seeing a bit of.  Hopefully didnt come off to crossed about the crawlers, ive been on the hate train for those things since the preview lol. 

[Ineffectual Clawlord]

Crawlers target unmodified bravery. Which leads to rather strange results at times, e.g. Giant Rats with their base bravery of 3 would lose 2/3 of their unit despite (if we assume a Moulder hero within range) having a bravery against battleshock tests of 12 as long as they remain over 30. The bravery system is a bit of a mess.

You'll have a hard time not getting value out of Crawlers against Skaven. Assuming 4 attacks with 2+/3+ that's 2.2 attacks hitting before armour save.

We'll see how it plays out and how popular the army becomes.

[Ser_namron]

2 hours ago, Ineffectual Clawlord said:

We'll see how it plays out and how popular the army becomes.

For sure, the rest of the army is pretty rock solid too so i think we're gonna be seeing quite a few different lists. Against skaven that hasnt brought much Skyre its seemingly a really bad matchup for our army. Normal attacks just arent gonna get through. Alot of rat units only have sheer numbers going for them.  

[Gwendar]

7 hours ago, Ser_namron said:

The crawler is REALLY good for 200 points with nothing else helping it

Yes, I would agree to some extent.. but I think people bringing 1 is just fine for what it does. The 'problem' with OBR is all of your special stuff is ~200 points. Harvester, Stalkers, Crawlers are all 200 points while Morghasts (no) are 210 and Deathriders (eh..) 180. After bringing the standard 20-20-20\20-20-10 Mortek and your assortment of 2-4 Heroes, you generally have just enough left for 2 of the above + some Endless Spells. Some take 2 Crawlers, some take 6 Stalkers or a mix, but the Crawler is an undoubtedly amazing choice and I don't think a points hike on it will do much unless it goes to 250, at which point you will really hurt the points economy unless other stuff goes down, in my opinion.

Basically, I'm getting at this: The Crawler is incredible for what it does when it does it because this thing doesn't do average damage; it either does something or nothing at all. I played a Sylvaneth player Sunday and made 4 shots with it against his 15 Tree Revenants. 1 missed, and he rolled all 5+'s for his 3 saves. Next turn he charged them in and it was now 100% incapable of shooting at anything so it definitely isn't unstoppable. The weekend before that I fired 3 shots at a Sorceress and 1 at another and killed both on the 1st turn... but I've also seen Longstrikes, Jezzails, Ballistas, Comet, WLV, Ungor Raiders, etc kill things in 1 turn too from crazy ranges or teleport shenanigans. I get what you mean about it's cost, but you have to consider the cost of everything else in the army and what it does as well.

Anyway, I loved the writeup and would like to see another if you play again. I agree that I think some higher rend\damage would potentially be the way to go as it really is the Mortek Guard that are the key to that army... also, remember that Reinforce Battle Shields (the 5+ save spell) is only against MW's, not regular wounds.. based on your wording in that one sentence I just wanted to be sure he wasn't using it as such against you 😉

[Skreech Verminking]

9 hours ago, Ineffectual Clawlord said:

Crawlers target unmodified bravery. Which leads to rather strange results at times, e.g. Giant Rats with their base bravery of 3 would lose 2/3 of their unit despite (if we assume a Moulder hero within range) having a bravery against battleshock tests of 12 as long as they remain over 30. The bravery system is a bit of a mess.

You'll have a hard time not getting value out of Crawlers against Skaven. Assuming 4 attacks with 2+/3+ that's 2.2 attacks hitting before armour save.

We'll see how it plays out and how popular the army becomes.

Unmodified bravery😱,

never mind that thing is hideously overpowered.

well st least we have a change of  keeping it from firing when in combat.

ps: I was thinking of taking the buffs and debuffs to my army since my local players seem to be very interested in mindrazored daughters and flesh eater.

those buffs should keep my units alive for a bit longer 

[Ser_namron]

14 hours ago, Gwendar said:

also, remember that Reinforce Battle Shields (the 5+ save spell) is only against MW's

ooh im not sure if he was doing it for only mortals or not. I think he played it right but ill double check with him. 

 

14 hours ago, Gwendar said:

but I've also seen Longstrikes, Jezzails, Ballistas, Comet, WLV, Ungor Raiders, etc kill things in 1 turn too from crazy ranges or teleport shenanigans.

Most of those require added support though to really do their thing, or taking them in bulk to spam it ( a unit of 2 jezaails is 140 pts and that aint gonna do ****** for ya lol)  You're not wrong though, theirs definitely some equally crappy stuff out there. SCE alpha strike/shoot cast has made for some of the worst game experiences ive ever had in AOS lol. But again, the point cost is the big thing that sets the crawler apart because it does everything it needs to by itself.  

 

 

15 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Yes, I would agree to some extent.. but I think people bringing 1 is just fine for what it does. The 'problem' with OBR is all of your special stuff is ~200 points. Harvester, Stalkers, Crawlers are all 200 points while Morghasts (no) are 210 and Deathriders (eh..) 180. After bringing the standard 20-20-20\20-20-10 Mortek and your assortment of 2-4 Heroes, you generally have just enough left for 2 of the above + some Endless Spells. Some take 2 Crawlers, some take 6 Stalkers or a mix, but the Crawler is an undoubtedly amazing choice and I don't think a points hike on it will do much unless it goes to 250, at which point you will really hurt the points economy unless other stuff goes down, in my opinion.

Hmm, i see what you're saying,, but isnt that just how list building works? If you cant take 20/20/20 mortek, then take 10/10./20 you should have to lose on something somewhere else if you want to bring powerful stuff. If the price hiked to 250 that just means they need to find those points elsewhere like every other army does. having 1 model whose points are too low for it shouldnt be glossed over because it would throw the rest of the points out of whack, that's what playtesting is for.  And im a cynical/pragmatic person, so in my mind this is GW saying, oh hey we can keep the cost low enough to where we can sell 2 models instead of having it fairly priced and then have them only want 1 of this or not picking up a box of stalkers because they dont have room for it in the list. 

I think your reasoning is sound, but i also think thats bad reasoning to work off of for game design. All units should be very close to their point worth, i know its not going to be perfect, so those 10/20 pt adjustments are the right way to go with the GHB. But something like the crawler should never have been that low in the first place and it shouldnt be excused because the rest of the list building is affected by it. If thats the case then GW should have playtested the army more and made other adjustments on profiles or point costs where needed.

15 hours ago, Gwendar said:

while Morghasts (no) are 210 and Deathriders (eh..) 180. After bringing the standard 20-20-20\20-20-10 Mortek and your assortment of 2-4 Heroes, you generally have just enough left for 2 of the above + some Endless Spells.

If the other battleline/unit options arent worth bringing because mortek gaurd are so good, then either adjust mortek profile, raise their points, or adjust the other units profiles/points to make them viable. Thats the real problem GW has, they keep making one unit the obvious choice, or one sub faction in the book the must take option for competitive play. And then they adjust the points 1x a year and think thats enough. 

 

15 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Anyway, I loved the writeup and would like to see another if you play again. I agree that I think some higher rend\damage would potentially be the way to go as it really is the Mortek Guard that are the key to that army... 

Thanks, i appreciate your input and its good to see the problem through an OBR players eyes as well. Like i said, we gotta give the army some time to truly see if its a problem, but the crawler is just one of those units that makes me lose faith in GW as a game designer versus a company trying to sell plastic. 

[Ser_namron]

13 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

ps: I was thinking of taking the buffs and debuffs to my army since my local players seem to be very interested in mindrazored daughters and flesh eater.

those buffs should keep my units alive for a bit longer 

ooh thats fair, if the local meta calls for it thats what you gotta do! I run my fyreslayers hearthgaurd berzerkers with poleaxes because my local meta is really heavy on high  AS/ ethereal nonsense so MWs are my only real option. Even though the axes are more reliable dmg.