Ser_namron Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 On 10/21/2019 at 2:55 PM, Gwendar said: I noticed you didn't really have anything to say about WLV but I imagine with Nagash that would be difficult to get off in the first place. Would you say there's anything you would change? WLV is so hit or miss for me, i tend to make room for it in every list i run but its probably only really been effective in 1/3 of my matches. The damage it CAN inflict is amazing, but the damage it DOES inflict can be pretty underwhelming at times for how much effort you put into casting it. And even if you CAN cast it, it usually is only really hitting what you need it to turn 1 and then the enemy gets out of its way and you're forced to try and dispell it to try and cast it again or just leave it there to maybe ping some hordes that are near it. Overall its been a bit of a let down lately, but at times its the clutchest ****** to ever exist. So i imagine itll make my lists in the future, but im gonna try and build some without it for now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser_namron Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Any lists running 6 stormfiends and 9 jezzails, or is that just too much investment into 2 units? I was thinking warpseer- MoM -300 Seer on bell- Skitterleap- 220 Bombadier- 100- MMMWP / Vigordust Clan rats x20 (3) - 360 pts 9 jezzails 6 stormfiends soulscream bridge I was thinking about bridging the fiends up front, distract and shoot hopefully the big threats, then let the clan rats screen while everything slowly moves up, jezzails shooting any other threats and capping objectives with the clan rats. I dont think its the best list, but i just got 9 jezzails and 6 stormfiends and want to use them lol. Any suggestions or changeups? Im thinking only 1 skyre caster is asking for a bad time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) @Ser_namron Nah, it can work, but I tend to find 9 Fiends and 6 Jezzails a better investment currently if you're going that route. If you have the Bell I don't really think the Warpseer is needed. And yeah, WLV really only makes it into my magic list for obvious reasons.. I otherwise I find the points better used elsewhere since, to me, it really requires 240 points to get a Grey Seer w/ Skitterleap. Sure you don't have to do that and a lot of tournament players still taking it don't do that, for good reason. I just like getting it in there T1. Edited October 25, 2019 by Gwendar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obeisance Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) I think it's too hard to cast / too short range / too hard to use. Don't get me wrong, it can dish out the damage.. but I don't think it's a 100pt spell anymore. I'd pay 50-60pts. I'm gonna take like Geminids and something else instead. edit: Speaking of Endless Spells. Do people find Prismastic Palasade useful against shooting? I already have Vermintide in my list to zone people out. I kind of want to use Palasade to screen stuff and hope they fail to unbind it. Edited October 26, 2019 by Obeisance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Which is funny, considering most people would disagree and still think it's broken. I've always argued the Comet is nearly as bad in some setups and it can be cast out of unbind range. Oh well. I think if it still kept the 26" range then the double-tap would likely be taken away to compensate... but that won't get revised again most likely 😉 As for the Palisade, I take it more to block models than protect from shooting, but my local meta has very little shooting aside from... well, me. Vermintide + Palisade is a large area of blocking when needed and I generally take both if I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfSuede Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Does anyone have general rules or guidelines for deployment? Of course this varies with army composition, matchups, deployment zones, battleplan, and scenery... But if you were giving a crash course in deployment tactics, what advice would you give? I keep finding myself in my first or second hero phase saying "huh, I think this is in the completely wrong spot" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushman101 Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Prismatic Palisade is good against shooting, but better at blocking charges, combat or objectives. It can be very handy if used creatively Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obeisance Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 You should practice deploying and unpacking your army. Always ask your opponent if they have things that can run/charge/fly any huge threat ranges, Cogs, etc. You really have to look out for first turn charges. Think about where the objectives are and place your key combat units next to them. Bubblewrap everything with Clanrats and run things behind Clanrats. I'll typically have a block of Clanrats stretched accross the table with 3" between them and the front line so people can't kill them and draw things in behind them. It's 6" if I'm playing against FEC or whatever. Giving Clanrats battleshock immunity means they're probably going to last 1-2 turns and hopefully you won't get wrecked by a double turn as a result. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obeisance Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 2 hours ago, bushman101 said: Prismatic Palisade is good against shooting, but better at blocking charges, combat or objectives. It can be very handy if used creatively Yeah, that's what I use Skaventide for. I guess I probably don't need it if I have Skaventide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 20 minutes ago, Obeisance said: threat ranges @KingOfSuede this is one of the most important aspects. Understanding the threat ranges of everything (shoot, run + charge abilities, etc) and pre-measuring all of these things (such as a Comet's 36" range). You get this down and it will slowly fall together. No opponent should be weird about it, except maybe the more casual players if they aren't used to that sort of thing maybe? Of just someone being 'that guy'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will pollock Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 On 10/25/2019 at 3:21 AM, Obeisance said: Out of curiosity, what do you guys feel is the most competitive way to play the faction? Considering the 9 Fiend build didn't actually go anywhere. 9 fiend build just won a tournament I was at 3ratlings 3windlaunchers 3drills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Question Scry Orb for — Is it re-rolling the failed Warpsaves from the Protection From Horned Rat too? Does this mean - 4+/4+/5+ or 4+/4+/5+/5+? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Coyote said: Question Scry Orb for — Is it re-rolling the failed Warpsaves from the Protection From Horned Rat too? Does this mean - 4+/4+/5+ or 4+/4+/5+/5+? You only reroll saves. FNP's are not the same as saves, so no it would not affect Protection of the GHR Edited October 27, 2019 by Gwendar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfSuede Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) @will pollock you're sure? That's not a legal setup if it's one unit. Needs either Drills OR Ratling Gun. Drills with Ratling Guns would be quite good though. Edited October 27, 2019 by KingOfSuede Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will pollock Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Just now, KingOfSuede said: you're sure? That's not a legal setup oiff it's one unit. Needs either Drills OR Ratling Gun. Drills with Ratling Guns would be quite good though. Was doomflayer gauntlets, soz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walheim Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Allegiance: SkaventideVerminlord Warpseer (300)- General- Trait: Master of Magic - Artefact: Suspicious Stone Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (220)- Lore of Ruin: WarpgaleWarlock Bombardier (100)- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Spear20 x Clanrats (120)- Rusty Spear9 x Stormfiends (780)Warp Lightning Vortex (100)Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 164 Hi guys! Played a tournament in Malmö, Sweden with 22 players, and snatched a 6th place with this list! Were some really tight competition so im glad i got into top 10! (just a few points short of getting my top 5) 3 wins 2 losses! I learned I have some work to do with possitioning my stormfiends but i got the hold of it at the end and they survived a whole match against a gristlegore list! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obeisance Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) What did you play against? Any take-aways from the event? Edited October 28, 2019 by Obeisance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 MMWP works well if you’re moving Jezzails like a SWAT team or you Gnawhole them someplace sneaky for an Assassination Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelford Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) What are your thoughts on this list? It should be quite fun competing in all the phases. Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (220)- General- Trait: Master of Magic- Artefact: Suspicious Stone- Lore of Ruin: Death FrenzyGrey Seer on Screaming Bell (220)- Lore of Ruin: PlagueClawlord (100)- Mighty Warlord Command Trait: Brutal FuryWarlock Bombardier (100)- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!40 x Stormvermin (450)20 x Clanrats (120)20 x Clanrats (120)1 x Ratling Gun (60)1 x Ratling Gun (60)1 x Ratling Gun (60)40 x Plague Monks (280)Warp Lightning Cannon (180)The Burning Head (30) Edited October 29, 2019 by Aelford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Congratz Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Stormfiends - Ranged unit of 9 (3 Ratlings, 3 Windlaunchers) What do you choose as meele weapon? Doomflayer or Shock? Thanks beforehand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfSuede Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Not a competitive player but as I understand it, you're more often than not pulling the melee guys off first anyway (so that the unit has 27 wounds before their shooting is effected) so it doesn't matter much. Just know that the Shock Gauntlets are more consistent, but Doomflayers have a higher ceiling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffectual Clawlord Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 @Congratz Good question! 1 Fiend vs 4+ AR: Doomflayer (+1 to hit) 3.7 +MMMWP 5.8 Shock gauntlets 3.3 +MMMWP (normal) 5.3 (fishing for 6s) 6.3 Grinderfist 2.2 + MMMWP 4.4 Clubbing Blows (Vigordust + MMMWP) 3.2 Yes, not a whole lot of difference. In particular both options are very unreliable in their output. I love the shock gauntlet mechanics, but use the Doomflayer since it looks absolutely beastly! 😊 As @KingOfSuede said, in the common ranged SF setup you want to assign the wounds to the melee guys and generally stay out of range. Nonetheless you shouldn't be afraid to charge with SF if you can ensure that you strike first, are safe next turn and can shoot freely. Assuming you get 6 SF into combat (2 shock, rest ranged) that's ~25 damage vs 4+ AR. In this situation i like to calculate with ~10 damage, just to be on the safest of sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unter Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 How have people found Verminous based builds? Interesting in trying one out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffectual Clawlord Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/29/2019 at 8:41 AM, Aelford said: What are your thoughts on this list? It should be quite fun competing in all the phases. Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (220)- General- Trait: Master of Magic- Artefact: Suspicious Stone- Lore of Ruin: Death FrenzyGrey Seer on Screaming Bell (220)- Lore of Ruin: PlagueClawlord (100)- Mighty Warlord Command Trait: Brutal FuryWarlock Bombardier (100)- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!40 x Stormvermin (450)20 x Clanrats (120)20 x Clanrats (120)1 x Ratling Gun (60)1 x Ratling Gun (60)1 x Ratling Gun (60)40 x Plague Monks (280)Warp Lightning Cannon (180)The Burning Head (30) It has a stable core with double bell etc. and can definitely work. I personally wouldn't play Stormvermin in a tournament unless they come down 50 points. The difference to Plague Monks in terms of efficiency is just too great. I wouldn't want to discourage you from trying them yourself though! They are great models, Verminous based builds have a unique kind of flair and are aesthetically pleasing. I'm not sure why you included Burning Head. With 30 points you could also get Palisade or Gravetide and Maelstrom, which provide better utility. Brutal Fury is debatable and usually the go to trait for Warbringers. It might surprise some people if he actually gets to fight, but overall Verminous Valour is just more beneficial if you want to use the Clawlord as a buff piece. Overall Clan Verminous unfortunately isn't all that competitive at the moment. There are some lists like the Thanquol - Clawlord on Brood Horror command point spam with a dozen attacks on your Stormvermin (or Clanrats: if you roll 300 dice you will inevitably do damage). I fear that it would need a rework of the Clawhorde battalion and Stormvermin cost reduction. They are however still way ahead of Moulder and in particular Eshin as a stand alone clan. ----------------------------- Since a lot of new battletomes appeared recently, how do people find our new competitors from a Skaven perspective? Personally all the new destruction books don't change a whole lot in terms of gameplay. If your list could handle an aggressive melee army like Slanesh before, it can do well against Warclans/Mawtribes as well. Time will tell what Cities lists will actually be good since they have so many possible playstyles. The only thing I'm really afraid of are Mortek Crawlers. Taking out Engineers or generally all our support characters as well as decimating things with low bravery. Having half of my Jezzails slain with a 42" threat range is ... annoying. I'm not sure how popular this unit and army will be but it might require some changes to lists (e.g. Palisade, Deceiver). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
States Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 8 hours ago, Ineffectual Clawlord said: There are some lists like the Thanquol - Clawlord on Brood Horror command point spam How does this work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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