AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[frostfire]

So the master of magic or the deranged inventor?

I used to depend on the master of magic to cast the WLV but recently I’ve found the WLV works less-efficiently.

Currently considering taking the deranged inventor instead of the master of magic. An arch warlock with this trait alongside 6/9 stormfiends can do loads of damage through the rocket launcher (and maybe the rattling guns too if taking the bridge).

[Gwendar]

5 hours ago, frostfire said:

So the master of magic or the deranged inventor?

I used to depend on the master of magic to cast the WLV but recently I’ve found the WLV works less-efficiently.

Currently considering taking the deranged inventor instead of the master of magic. An arch warlock with this trait alongside 6/9 stormfiends can do loads of damage through the rocket launcher (and maybe the rattling guns too if taking the bridge).

Largely don't feel I need WLV anymore either.. utility from things like Bridge tends to be better, of course I don't take Bridge if I don't take Fiends.

Anyway, yeah Deranged is a solid pick for a backup to MMMWP, but at the same time MoM can be very helpful with the re-roll + Arcane + MoM to make sure it goes off. I play against a lot of armies with few unbinds (although that's about to change since half my local people are going to Hallowheart CoS, including myself) so I generally don't have too many problems.

 

[frostfire]

But the generals with master of magic can’t cast MMMWP because they can’t be slyer, right?

And yes since the CoS came out we have a tougher opponent now. We need long range (longer than the irondrakes at least) weapons. I think it would make the stromfiends meta solidified.

[Gwendar]

@frostfire Oh hey, I'm an idiot... dunno why I said that.. for some reason yesterday I guess Ikit thought he was a Grey Seer. Anyway, yeah if you want go with Deranged as a nice backup I wouldn't blame you... Not much better options unless you run 3 Ratling Teams and use Overseer.

Since I run 40 Monks with my 9 Fiends, I always have my Bell as the general with MoM so I can help with getting off Death Frenzy. Not as crucial as MMMWP but still up there.

[Laststand]

Warclans is here andI think it has a real impact for the ratty hordes. They seem to put out so much damage and have so many movement buffs that even a 40xclan rat unit is going to be reduced down to tattered rags in one round of combat. (And their movement bonuses are going to make it much harder to just put 1 or 2 clan rats in combat range to tie them up.)

I watched a miniwargame batrep last night big waaaagh v beasts of chaos and it was barely a game (however weak that army is).

I think this will fuel more lists with 20rat units as speed bumps or even giant rats to screen. Anything that slows the waaaagh so we cab shoot it apart or blast it with sorcery. 

Interestingly they have a movement bonus that kicks in when hurt so WLV could be dangerous to use. If it goes off twice units caught could move 2d6 towards you!

Opinions? 

 

 

[Skreech Verminking]

4 hours ago, Laststand said:

Interestingly they have a movement bonus that kicks in when hurt so WLV could be dangerous to use. If it goes off twice units caught could move 2d6 towards you!

If I am not mistaken, then the movement bonus only works on damage inflicted in the shooting phase.

although I could be very wrong.

[frostfire]

I am pretty sure that their movement bonus works in any phase, but I am not sure whether the endless spell would activate that ability or not.   

[Gwendar]

7 hours ago, Laststand said:

I watched a miniwargame batrep last night big waaaagh v beasts of chaos and it was barely a game (however weak that army is).

I don't watch them anymore for a variety of reasons, but that guy tends to make horrifically bad BoC lists, so keep that in mind. But yeah, overall those Big Waagh lists with IJ seem incredibly strong... with the right setup you're maxing out your Waagh by T1\2. This gives units like Ardboys +3 charge (2 from their drummer), 2 attacks 2\2\-1\1 damage, 6++ save and getting even crazier with a Warchanter buff and +1 attacks CA. And so what if you lose all of those Waagh points? You'll likely get them all back the next turn anyway.

But yeah, another reason to reconsider WLV as yes, they do move closer regardless of the phase. I think it's just going to come down to focus-firing and understanding your average damage output against a given save.. which is something pretty much any competitive player is already doing.

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Gwendar said:

horrifically bad BoC lists

Nah they aren’t horrible, he just loves his meaty bullgors (a terrible unit by the way).

and for some reason always takes the cygors.

 

[Gwendar]

13 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

and for some reason always takes the cygors.

That's more or less why I said it 😉

I think I'm just too used to watching Joel Mcgrath and skill + well done tournament lists. 

[KingOfSuede]

Alright friendos! I'm really enjoying this game now that I can find people at my store to play 2k points. This seems like where this game really shines!  

My latest list:  
Arch-Warlock, Bombardier, Bombardier (spells and abilities didn't matter because I couldn't cast spells to save my life and never used artefacts and command abilities)  
x3 Stormfiends (Shocks, Ratling, Windlauncher), x3 Stormfiends (Shocks, Ratling, Warpfire), x10 Acolytes  
x6 Jezzails, Warp Lightning Cannon  
Doomwheel  
Ratling Gun, Ratling Gun, Ratling Gun
Warpcog Convocation: Arkhspark Voltik, Rattlegauge Warplock  

Played against Khorne (Guy came in with a Khorne bumper sticker, Khorne hoodie, and Khorne themed backpack so dude was serious business). His list was something like a Skulltaker, Skarbrand, 3x30 Bloodletters, and 3 Skull Cannons. 2 drops to my 3.   

Yknow what, I had a big Batrap typed out, but then I figured it was "I shot the bejeezus out of everything he had, killed Skarbrand in one turn and tossed a Doomwheel across the board to steal an objective. I really don't think I should have won this game but he never got his Skulltaker into battle and he tied up 480 points worth of models blocking a Gnawhole on the far corner of the board to stop me from threatening sending a Stormfiend team through. My Ratling Guns averaged 14 shots at whatever they looked at (the 3 of them almost single handedly killed 600 points of Bloodletters and took a few wounds off Skarbrand) and my WLC dealt 11 wounds over 2 shots (Holy ****** the math for these get so much better with the Battalion).  

Once again though, I was underwhelmed by Stormfiends. They seemed to melt away in combat. The only shining part about them are the 3d6 Ratling Guns. Maybe I'm just bad at rolling for the WindLauncher? I never seem to have good luck with them. The the ceiling of essentially dealing 3d3 MWs to something is sweet, I'm usually lucky to get 1 through. Though for killing things, they're certainly better than 520 points of Clanrats.

[Skreech Verminking]

30 minutes ago, KingOfSuede said:

, they're certainly better than 520 points of Clanrats

Welcome my friend, let me tell you a story about the tournament I attended last saturday, and be astonished of their death-streak. And me winning 2battles against a very heavy monster griselgore, and a endless swarm of summoning endless spell tzeentch list (both very likely copied by some winning tournament list).

If you care to know, How I got this scare.... How I got seventh place, then wait till I have written my very long bat-rep this evening (or maybe early tomorrow).

Edited October 14, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Aelford]

I've been pondering over a new list. Use Dreaded Skitterleap on the Warpseer, cast Purple Sun and give ITB for tunnelling teams. Skitterleap the Deceiver to get in on the action and to create a new Gnawhole for a unit of Plague Monks to appear. The other Plague Monks come via Warp-Grinder. Will cast Chromatic Cogs to increase charge potential. Screaming Bell then just sits back with clanrats on objectives.

Verminlord Warpseer (300)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic
Verminlord Deceiver (300)
- Artefact: Gnawbomb
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (220)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap
20 x Clanrats (120)
20 x Clanrats (120)
20 x Clanrats (120)
40 x Plague Monks (280)
1 x Warp-Grinder (80)
40 x Plague Monks (280)
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Extra Command Point (50)
Purple Sun of Shyish (50)

[Gwendar]

16 hours ago, KingOfSuede said:

Once again though, I was underwhelmed by Stormfiends. They seemed to melt away in combat

If you run Fiends and expect them to do a lot, I recommend putting them 1x6 over 2x3. MMMWP on the one unit will greatly increase their output. Think of them as a shooting unit before you think of them as shooting.

Now of course, I know you have Warpfire in one of groups, so you can proxy it as a windlauncher if you want... otherwise, yeah, you have to run them as 2x3.

[KingOfSuede]

@Gwendar Guessing you meant "as a shooting unit before you think of them as melee?" I can definitely see that running them in 1x6 would be dope and a much better use of MMMWP. This was a matter of I only have 6, had to fill battleline, and didn't want to do 2x5 Acolytes. Though maybe even then, it's fine because 6 fiends sold eliminate anything within their threat range especially with MMMWP.  

Don't worry though, I have another 3 to build and they're all magnetized 🙏

[Gwendar]

@KingOfSuede Well, yeah, I would totally run 2x5 Acolytes... as I've said before they aren't really doing much unless you have 15-30 of them. The tradeoff for having 1x6 Fiends is much better as you said.

Least you magnetized yours... I've cut up my Ratlings to Grinders, then back to Ratlings with the tome release and then cut up the Warpfire for Windlaunchers. With paint it's not really noticeable, but man... I really hope they don't get changed again.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Gwendar

[Obeisance]

So I hear Skaven is good against the meta boogeyman, Slaanesh? Personally I'm newish and not had the pleasure.

Can you tell me why? Apparently you need shooting and single wound dudes.

 

How does one build/play against competitive Slaanesh?

Multi-Keeper, Thermal Rider, etc.

[frostfire]

We've got plenty of options of shooting which can do huge amount of damage. 

We've got 1 wound chaffs whose name is clanrats.

We've got Plague Monks with Death Frenzy so we are still good in combat even against slannesh.

So I think we are just fine against Slaanesh.

[Gwendar]

@Obeisance I have a recent report on my batrep blog against Slaanesh. Not a fully optimized Slaanesh build by any means but still deadly enough. Ran 9 Fiends and 40 Monks.. he conceded t2.

We definitely have the tools to deal with them.. solid enough screens, quality shooting and great CC and Death Frenzy on Monks makes them extra deadly.

[5kaven5lave]

Taking pure Skryre to Blood and Glory next month, thinking:

Arch-Warlock (DI, VI)

Engineer (Brass Orb (because why not?))

Bombardier

6 shootyfiends

3 meleefiends with the Grinderfists for deepstrike 

15 Acolytes

2x5 Acolytes

2 WLC

Batallion for one drop. 
 

Any thoughts? I have no expectation of winning, just want to take my shooty rats. 
EDIT: Naturally all the heroes have MMMWP as their spell. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by 5kaven5lave

[walheim]

Heres some pictures of a training game for a tournament im going to be playing at the end of the month. Got my ass beat by cities of sigmar but had alot of fun!

[Sovereign]

How are people liking jezzails? I've been thinking of running a list with some silly amount of jezzails, like 3 units of 6, and something like 30 acolytes. 

Only downside is I probably won't have much melee but I can shoot the ****** out of everything which is nice?

[Gwendar]

2 hours ago, Sovereign said:

How are people liking jezzails? I've been thinking of running a list with some silly amount of jezzails, like 3 units of 6, and something like 30 acolytes. 

Only downside is I probably won't have much melee but I can shoot the ****** out of everything which is nice?

They're great (just worse Longstrikes, disregarding buffs from Skaventide in my opinion) but currently they're overshadowed by Fiends for the most part.

You could go 3x6, but not really sure why you would unless you're just trying to spread out to keep 1 big unit from getting 1-shot. I would prefer to have at least 1x9, but 1x3 is pretty useless, so. I will say from past experience that my old list of 9 Jezzails + 1x25-30 Acolytes worked incredibly well. I often had the Acolytes getting MMMWP + Vigordust if they needed it, otherwise I have Vigrodust to the Jezzails to negate Look out, sir.

Anyway, Jezzails for deleting support heroes\monster\high saves while Acolytes delete, well, pretty much anything you aim them at. You want to compound your buffs so splitting everything into MSU isn't the way to go with Skaven. If you skip on Mon- I mean melee, then you really need to include a good amount of Clanrats, at least 80. Of course, if you aren't going for a competitive build then it doesn't matter.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Gwendar

[Sovereign]

3 hours ago, Gwendar said:

They're great (just worse Longstrikes, disregarding buffs from Skaventide in my opinion) but currently they're overshadowed by Fiends for the most part.

You could go 3x6, but not really sure why you would unless you're just trying to spread out to keep 1 big unit from getting 1-shot. I would prefer to have at least 1x9, but 1x3 is pretty useless, so. I will say from past experience that my old list of 9 Jezzails + 1x25-30 Acolytes worked incredibly well. I often had the Acolytes getting MMMWP + Vigordust if they needed it, otherwise I have Vigrodust to the Jezzails to negate Look out, sir.

Anyway, Jezzails for deleting support heroes\monster\high saves while Acolytes delete, well, pretty much anything you aim them at. You want to compound your buffs so splitting everything into MSU isn't the way to go with Skaven. If you skip on Mon- I mean melee, then you really need to include a good amount of Clanrats, at least 80. Of course, if you aren't going for a competitive build then it doesn't matter.

Yeah I thought about it after making the post. I'm definitely better off with one big unit of jezzails just because of buffs.

Curious as to what you're referring to when you say "skipping on Mon". I feel like I'm missing something.

[Gwendar]

16 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

Yeah I thought about it after making the post. I'm definitely better off with one big unit of jezzails just because of buffs.

Curious as to what you're referring to when you say "skipping on Mon". I feel like I'm missing something.

Yep.. generally like that with all our stuff. Not a lot of "multiple units wholly within" and more targeted stuff to one particular unit wholly within. 6 Jezzails are what I would use to kill support stuff or whittle at bigger monsters but never get buffs aside from a spark if they're in range. 9 of them are what can get buffed and one shot things, but again big Acolyte or Fiend units are better for this.

I was just making a cheeky reference to Plague Monks. Generally if you want a melee option nowadays you go with 40+ Monks as Stormvermin are overcosted, especially outside of bringing some Verminous units to buff them.