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Kaleb Daark

The Big Community Survey 2019

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At the LVO the Big community survey 2019 was also announced.

What we like, don't like, want...  No different to us here 24/7!

I got thinking about what I'd put down, depending on how the questions are laid out obviously.

Overall I'm happy with what GW is doing, and the way we're having it fed to us, and I like the fact that they're listening to us as a community - sisters of battle etc.

Sure their prices are quite salty, but as long as people pay them nothing will change there, and I can see that they're trying to expand out collections by making the combined faction vs faction boxes more common.

I'm not a 40k player but I do have 40k models so couldn't really comment on that side of things.

My AoS feedback though would be :

1) NEUTRAL (WISHLIST)  Tie up the loose ends, bring everything into the fold - it would help not just my factions but all factions

I'd  like to see them take disposessed , free people and all the factions which still have a heavy foot in the old world and bring them fully into the Age of Sigmar, over and above feeding the new stuff for a while.  Then we're all on the same playing field. They've binned off what they don't want - brets, Tomb Kings, so just tidy up the rest and close the door on the past.

We've had it with the old Vampire counts armies split into its various undead,  Beasts have got it after decades of patience, Slaves are going to get it soon, but I do feel for all those who  stand in a position where they've not got something to call their own outside a grand alliance book.

It would also give GW the chance to clean up house - remove finecast model lines and ancient sculpts.  Everything released in 8th ed was sculpted with an AoS aesthetic so there is or was something on the cards i'm sure.

2) DISLIKE (NEGATIVE) I'm fed up of paying for everything twice - especially as I go and buy from my local GW store out of choice (for US players its a bit more difficult I know)

So... I buy my GHB, and Blades of Khorne and Stormcast battletomes.  Within Azyr I have no way of unlocking anything to do with any of them unless I buy the digital versions.

So... I buy the digital versions and pay for it all again.  I like my books, and would never by digital over a paper copy out of choice.

I also choose to give GW full RRP rather than go independent and win myself 25 percent off - I use the store, I hang out there, play there - it's my way of paying for all that.

Maybe if you bought in a GW store the till receipt could have a scannable code which unlocked the full digital version in the app - a way of saying thanks for buying full retail.

OR - Could the books not have either a unique scannable code on them (dooable in the same way that limited edition numbers are printed onto the run) that unlocks the essentials within the Azyr App.  Its then forever tied to your google or apple account, and has only one use, so on selling or trading the book on, the next guy doesn't get the benefit.

In either example, a one hit thank you for buying the product new. 

3) LIKE (POSITIVE) The new way of delivering story arcs and narrative content

I thought that Malign Portents really took the AoS story line delivery out of the park.  I loved the way it was done with the vignettes and short stories.  More please.

I think we have one over on the Vigilus campaign as our short stories led up all the way to the release of malign Portents.  I hope that this new story arc coming will be just as good.  

 

over to you guys :)

 

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I think for me it would be:

1) Wishlist

Exactly the same as you. I'd love to see everything in the game covered with a battletome. Additionally, I'd like everything battletome to have a proper Japanese version (I live in Japan). A lot of people at my local store want to play with factions but since they have no Japanese rules give up and just stick with what they already know (reducing army variety). People don't mind working their way slowly through and translating one book but more than one and they don't have the time. The new books have all be in Japanese too so i hope this continues.

2) dislike

The limbo of support many units still exist in. I'm currently thinking of picking up some of the older models for a living city but given that they seemingly have no support and given gitmobz recent removal from the game I'm not sure I want to drop the money on them. A simple announcement of which models they are planning continued support for even if that support doesn't come for another 5 years or so would be great.

Also, a bit related to that the sheer number of models still boxes with square bases. It's been long enough since fantasy battle ended and I honestly think it's incredibly insulting for them to continue selling boxes with the wrong parts that they expect us to pay extra for. Even if it's simply a case of "when you buy a box with square bases you get a bag of the correct number of round bases" I'd be happy.

3) Like

Like you I loved Malign Portents short stories. I was so sad when they ended and would love to get something similar back.

I'm also loving the conversion ideas they have had on Warhammer TV a s white dwarf recently. As someone with little conversion experience they are great for giving me ideas (I'd had never though of using the head of an axe as the crest on a helmet for tzeentchian knights for example)

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As above my main suggestion would be to partition the store into Sigmar and Legends now, with any models not being carried forward ported into legends so people know there is limited time to get them before they are dropped and no longer supported

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Wishlisting

Release 1 or 2 leftfield armies. I think Karadron and Idoneth really showed a unique direction and I would like to see that continue.

A new path to glory book that maybe uses points to try and balance it, with an option to combine warbands into one large army of champions and retinues.

Replace the older metal and resin minis with the lovely  new plastic kits they are capable of now.

Expand lore

An epic level board game eg like battleship gothic

 

Things I like

The models, most of my time is painting and the new models are a joy to build and paint.

The modular rule system allows tweaks to be made to rebalance and improve the experience

The fluid rule set

Open war cards - every battle I have had with them has been unique and good fun

Lore in the Idoneth tome, really like the feel of. More grown up than the Khorne raar axe gore skulls - I am not 13 and appreciate some grown up thought.

Community site is good

Range of games to use the minis in. The move to have the same minis across systems was inspired

 

Things I dislike

Price - although I do shop at my local GW so as to support it as it’s a key hub of the community where I live

 

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Wishlist:

1) Bretonnians to be brought into AOS.

2) Dispossessed - Miners brought back with new models and rune golems.

3) Everything covered with a battletome including a Free Cities battletome.

Negative:

1) Rules for various things spread across too many books.

2) Stormcast getting too much focus.

Positive:

1) Community.

2) The new models on the whole look incredible.

3) Price in the UK is good value for money with the exception of the books.

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From an AoS perspective :

Positive - basic rules and warscrolls for free is briliant. The quality of models and books is also awesome in my opinion, and the engagement with the fanbase over the last couple of years has been first class. Great to see so many bundles offering better value for money.

Negative - i'm really not a fan of all these extra rules like realm rules, scenery rules, rules for less points than your opponent etc..... They seem to be used commonly at the moment, but they over complicate things for me.

I also want to see a free digital copy included with a physical purchase - this shouldnt be a big deal really. 

Not aos specific but I've grown to absolutely hate gw paint pots, and i will drastically reduce my purchasing of flip lids in the future.

Wishlist - Grown up graphic novels, and lots of them. I think these will be coming before too long

Something on the gw website for clubs and players, to create a network might be a good idea 

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POSITIVE:

  • GW has again continued to surpass their sculpting quality. Gloomspite Gitz has some of the most astounding kits in the entire range. Seeing the Troggoths go from embarrassingly out of date to the current level is nothing short of amazing.
  • The Setting is starting to get fleshed out in a more understood and celebrated way. I'm seeing people start to appreciate the setting.
  • The idea of blitzing out new Battletomes to bring up factions to 2.0 quality is great. Helps assure people that their army has a future.
  • Azyr is proving to be a very valuable resource and updates are generally quite good!

NEUTRAL:

  • Stormcast are getting way too much support at the expense of other factions. Although it's the community buying them, so can't really blame GW.
  • Azyr needs a way to filter content better. There's a ton of non-essential stuff in the gallery and it's becoming unwieldy. Compendium should be a toggle filter. Battalions should be toggle filter as well.
  • Azyr needs to update their images to match webstore. Models that no longer exist and/or are on square bases make it look janky.

NEGATIVE:

  • Dislike the over-reliance the game is taking on Terrain and Endless Spells - effort that could update ancient models in the range instead. Skaven not getting any updated sculpts and instead getting spells and terrain - for example.
  • There are still some factions that are horribly messed up - like Aelfs - while other armies are getting 2nd/3rd battletomes.
  • The Big One - Battletomes are so poorly worded and tested that they are no longer accurate as of 2-3 weeks post launch. The big FAQ is not a good thing - it means the designers don't test or quality control their content.  This also feeds into the other big sin that the rules are horrendously fragmented. Core Rules are NOT EVEN (edited)  in the GHB anymore - meaning you need to flip between different books. If we really have to pay for a new GHB every year, it really had better come with an updated set of rules. Before focusing on more specialized rules - give us what we need to actually play the game.
  • Miniatures should be provided with Round Bases in the webstore as standard. Selling me something and saying - "hey, you have to buy bases in order to play legally" is anti-consumer.
Edited by Barbossal
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Positives: 

  • The sculpts over the last two years have been gorgeous, now if only any of the armies I played got any (holding out hope for slaanesh if the new fiends are anything to go by)
  • Retrofitting old armies (while khorne wouldn't have been so early on my list, it gives me hope)
  • Lore galore, gimme more of this good ******!
  • Free rules and warscrolls is a great move and i hope this is something that comes to 40k, throw in apps like battlescribe and then most players with less money to throw around can get in for the price of a few start collecting boxes.

Neutral:

  • Bit of a personal gripe but I feel there is a lack of named characters in the game, many armies don't have any while others lack affordable ones.
  • Stormcast marine mentality, this isn't a negative yet but they are going the way of space marines with oversaturation, many models are falling out of use with SCE players I've spoken to and we'll end up with an army that makes up a massive amount of the player base like space marines do in 40k (if you count "variant" armies like space wolves and blood angels that have separate books)
  • Release scheduling, we've had the darkoath warqueen for what? well over a year almost 2 now? And still no darkoath over the horizon, gloomspite also had a long wait but at least they got there due. I won't complain about cool new stuff but pulling left field releases like a khorne rework while Slaves to darkness players have been waiting for something promised a year ago just kinda stings. On the 40k side I play tau and emps children, and while i understand tau not getting any love, they're fine as is, we've certainly been left waiting on world eaters and emps children considering the precedent set by the thousand sons and deathguard codexes (here's hoping vigilus brings us some love)
  • We could use more of the over the top AoS stuff, we've gotten a lot of cool stuff and I would like to see more things that can thrive in AoS that wouldn't have made it in WFB.

Negatives:

  • Pricing models and sales tactics, this may be the personal gripe of a broke college student but every army getting terrain and endless spells feels like scalping. While endless spells are optional, there is no benefit or alternative to not taking terrain, which means you have to shill out for one more kit if not multiple in the cases of some armies just to play. And these terrain pieces having such specific base shapes means it's a nightmare to proxy them if you want to be cheap or don't like the official sculpt.
  • Low cost effective kits, many kits and box sets don't give you your moneys worth. The KO start collecting is a good example as it includes no battleline and the arkanaut box runs at around $50 CAD so that's a $150 investment just to meet the minimum battleline requirements. This can also be connected to my first point but I feel the cost of models like the Darkoath warqueen to be overpriced for a model with the size and stat profile of most $20 heroes, i can understand god-tier models like nagash and alariel being as pricey as they are but boxes like fulminators cost way too much and don't come bundled in a start collecting. And sigmar help the wallets of DoK and ID players who have no start collecting. Thankfully I play LoN and can get a mortarch, skeles and black knights for the cost of a singular mortarch.
  • A lot of armies are stuck in limbo still and while this year seems to be the year those armies get rescued, while this is contradictory to one of my positive points I feel a little more could have been done to help older WFB armies than give SCE or Khorne even more stuff.
  • Balance issues, while balance might not be GW's first priority, some units like the celestar ballista see a lot of overuse due to incredible cost efficiency and reliability. While every army should have staple units, those units shouldn't be able to reliably hit well above their weight in points...
  • Rules and supplement swamp, we need an app that consistently updates with rules changes, FAQ's and supplements, I know GW wants to profit off of books but having rules spread across so many books, warscrolls and FAQ's is a problem. If an app existed that let you confirm physical purchases so that you could have a digital copy that was up to date with FAQ's as well as a free copy of the core rules and commonly used supplements like realms then things would be easier for everyone. I still don't know most of the realms spells and other stuff because I don't own the books, thankfully I've got friends with copies and my local tournaments provide printouts of every realm and FAQ being used.
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Positive 

  • The Mortal Realms has no lore boundaries - allowing for crazy but cool factions like the Deepkin
  • The quality and design of the models is top tier - just look at Morathi 
  • Factions are being updated and amalgamated 
  • Soul Wars has pushed the narrative forward and allowing more options - keep it up!
  • Battletomes are being updated - can be seen as a negative but at least they are doing it (some 40k codexes are in desperate need of an overhaul)

Negative

  • Box sets having units with numbers that don't match the warscrolls 
  • Still plenty of finecast out there 
  • Confusion over what books are needed to play etc
  • Warscroll cards being available for a limited time 

Wishlist

  • Digital copies of Battletomes/rulebooks to be free with purchase of a physical copy - costs them nothing 
  • Give people the chance for Bretonnians and TK to come back (I suppose this survey is part of that haha)
  • Make warscroll cards available to buy all the time
  • More box sets like Carrion Empire please 

There's probably a lot more but it's late and I'm tired 😂

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8 hours ago, Barbossal said:

We don't need all this narrative/niche garbage clogging up the pages. Give us what we need to actually play the game

Way to dismiss a nice chunk of the player-base there buddy!

Narrative and the like are "actually play (ing) the game" too.

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30 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Way to dismiss a nice chunk of the player-base there buddy!

Narrative and the like are "actually play (ing) the game" too.

Fair - I guess I'm just surprised. I've never once encountered anyone who actually uses it. Not dismissing your joy or excitement - just wanting them to not neglect the core rules before delving deeper into the cooler but less used. :)

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2 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Way to dismiss a nice chunk of the player-base there buddy!

Narrative and the like are "actually play (ing) the game" too.

For once we agree. If anything narrative and open players need more support. All 3 styles of play need to a support format that draw in new players.

@Barbossal I agree with you as well. Rules of Match play needs to be cleaned up. Simple ex. is Duality of Death needs the same FAQ as Arcane power. There are only 18 missions so 1/18 games during play testing didn’t fix fundamental issues with scoring.

Edited by svnvaldez
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5 hours ago, Barbossal said:

Fair - I guess I'm just surprised. I've never once encountered anyone who actually uses it. Not dismissing your joy or excitement - just wanting them to not neglect the core rules before delving deeper into the cooler but less used. :)

Hi there, i do play a lot more narrative than strict matched play. Now you’ve encountered one ;) I do think players with less interest in the list building matched play side of things are less inclined to visit these forums and game stores. At least that’s clearly a defining factor in my area. Curious to see if GW can truly extrapolate how that devide is.

Regarding your comment about neglecting core rules for the lore, I honestly think The lore is absolutely essential to binding players to the game. There are more competitive games out there if you don’t care about background. But the background helps you be invested in the world they’ve build. 

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7 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Curious to see if GW can truly extrapolate how that devide is.

I reckon they look at the average number of hardcore, vocal and visible, players that live in their shops and enter tournaments, figure out their average spend and then times that by the number of shops worldwide. Then they compare that tributary figure to the huge ****** lake of cash they make each year and wisely guess that vast majority of their customers probably play the game at home in a wide variety of styles.

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7 minutes ago, JPjr said:

I reckon they look at the average number of hardcore, vocal and visible, players that live in their shops and enter tournaments, figure out their average spend and then times that by the number of shops worldwide. Then they compare that tributary figure to the huge ****** lake of cash they make each year and wisely guess that vast majority of their customers probably play the game at home in a wide variety of styles.

Keyword there is guess in the final step. But you’re right they’ll get far enough to make that an educated guess

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Quote

If we really have to pay for a new GHB every year, it really had better come with an updated set of rules. We don't need all this narrative/niche garbage clogging up the pages. Give us what we need to actually play the game.

I would prefer the default books not have narrative in them either as no one I know cares about that either, but it jacks up the cost of the book.  I think if anything give the gamer's edition of the book which are just 10 pages or so of rules and make it not a hardback, and then continue with the current format of books for people that care about reading the narrative.

Even better, just bake it into the subscription service for the app and leave the rules there, and then those that want to buy the narrative can buy the books, and the rest of us that dont' care about that can just have updated rules on our phones or whatever and we'll pay a subscription cost for that instead of paying for books that rarely get opened and get outdated right away.

It would also give you a good metric for measuring who really cares about narrative and who doesn't from a sales perspective.

Edited by Dead Scribe
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Well my wishlist is this for armies. 

1. Gholem Dwarf faction mentioned in lore.

2. Completely new army really surprising one. Hoping for non-gork/mork destruction. No Stormcast. I mean really cool like Deepkin and Kharadron or weirder. 

3. If we don’t get stuff this year Kharadron Overlord wave 2. If we do then Fishmen destruction army. 

4. Beastclaw Raiders update + new units. 

 

Things I like:

- Narrative books like malign portents help flesh setting out. I like these lots. 

- lore is fantastic keep it up. I love maps of the realms as there is so much interesting stuff. 

- I like that the factions are getting updates more rapidly if they aren’t on the radar in the near future. 

- models are superb and some of the best in GW history. Congrats guys. Even factions I don’t intend to play I love looking at them lol. 

Dislike: 

- Too much Stormcast just give it a year rest and I’ll be okay for awhile. 

- older model ranges not appealing to new players for fear of being removed

- if you have no intention of supporting a range just rip the band aid off quick

 

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Obviously I'm just scrambling around in the dark same as most people here are but I think, much as I'm sure there's a decent % that would not be unhappy to see the lore divorced from the rules, it's quite possibly the last thing they would ever do and fundamentally goes against how they see the game.

 

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I would love to see a return to the campaign books in the style of the Realm Gate Wars.   

Really disliking the summoning aspect,  lately in my meta its just who can spam the most number of units onto the table.  it's not much fun.

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Summoning is very strong in my meta too but that basically comes down to you know thats the case, so make sure you play an army that can either do it too or one that can counter it somehow. 

There was a guy on dakka very vocal about summoning breaking the game but it seemed that everyone else thinks its just fine.

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Not to turn this into a summoning discussion but this does bring up a good point that some armies have a way easier time summoning than others. Tzeench and khorne and even seraphon in my local meta always seem to out-summon nurgle and slaanesh.

Something to add as a neutral point for me i suppose

Edited by Lucky Snake Eyes

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12 hours ago, Barbossal said:

the cooler but less used. 

So, not "garbage" then, eh? 😉😁

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50 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

So, not "garbage" then, eh? 😉😁

I was speaking hyperbolically for sure. ;) I'll edit for good times.

Edited by Barbossal

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I feel like mine are going to be a little different from what I've been reading on here...

1) NEUTRAL (WISHLIST)  

Model releases separated from battletome releases, i.e. not having to wait for a new battletome to get a new kit or two. I feel like this is already kinda happening but it would allow for more armies to be supported since GW wouldn't have to dump so many resources into a given release. Having battletomes be about allegiance abilities rather than warscrolls and the AoS app really helps with this.

More model support for more factions. Fyreslayers could really use a new unit kit. Flesh Eater courts could really use a separate crypt ghast courtier clampack and the vargulf needs to be redone in plastic or dropped.

Finecast models either purged or rereleased as plastic. I hate finecast so much...

2) DISLIKE (NEGATIVE)

There needs to be a better effort at balancing. Its definitely not bad right now but there's a lot of room for improvement still. Ignoring Legions, Daughters, and Gyrstrike in the recent Big FAQ was a missed opportunity.

Lay off of Stormcast for awhile. Seriously, I feel like GW is trying to turn this into 40k where 50% or more of the playerbase is playing the same army (or some variation). I'm not sure how product development actually works but it feels like my Fyreslayers, Kharadron, and other order factions keep getting neglected because  GW is too busy making even more Stormcast and telling players to fix holes in their army by allying in Stormcast.

Sylvaneth Wildwoods- The ability to coast seemingly the entire board in terrain that blocks LOS and prevents large base non-flying models from moving is just too much. People keep wondering why there isn't more shooting in the meta. Hint: its because there's an army that's pretty much immune to it.

Random turn order/the double turn. While I get there are benefits to it and there can be a big long debate on the subject in short I just don't like the double turn.

3) LIKE (POSITIVE)

Gonna break from others and say I really like the terrain that's getting released with armies. First time in my miniwargaming career I've been seeing players buy and paint terrain in mass. It also provides an easy way of sprucing up a display board. Except for Wildwoods...I hate those things.

Endless Spells- Could use some polish but I really like the concept of having models to represent persistent spell effects. Not sure every army needs 3 of them but cool nonetheless and I'm very happy with the addition of them.

The general trend of the new battletomes. I'm liking the different play styles and how thematic the allegiance abilities feel.

Models are amazing as always. Definitely GW's long time strong point.

Rules support. While far from perfect and because of how disappointed I was in the last Big FAQ I even put it in the negatives but I like the general idea of set rules and points update. GW just needs to actually use this.

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27 minutes ago, Barbossal said:

I was speaking hyperbolically for sure. ;) I'll edit for good times.

Cool.  Nicely done edit.

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