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eekamouse

Warcry is Killteam/Mordheim... ?

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30 minutes ago, CitizenX said:

Honestly it and the Mount rune have not shown up yet (neither of the mounted cards we have seen have had it), so I am assuming those are in for future proofing/planned expanded rosters. 

The Idoneth models will almost certainly have mount runemarks.

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32 minutes ago, ReubenM said:

The Idoneth models will almost certainly have mount runemarks.

Apparently not. Observe the stat card below taken from the GW store. Idoneth.jpg.0be62f67bed797cbb8b4633ced41881f.jpg

Now if you compare it to the runes below you can see it has Fly, Leader, and Berserker Runes but no Mount runes.Runes.jpg.2010f7b73fb0ba17064618395bad1fbd.jpg

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Well, that's super weird - maybe because mounts are limited by movement in ways they don't want the Akhelians to be?

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18 minutes ago, ReubenM said:

Well, that's super weird - maybe because mounts are limited by movement in ways they don't want the Akhelians to be?

it is pretty weird... but that almost makes me think that sometime in the future there will be separate mount profile cards that certain champions can ride?

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That's pretty much what I am assuming as well, basically the Flight Rune's rules supersede the Mount Rune. The fact that it is there, though, does suggest that they do intend non flying mounted models at some point (the squig hoppers also have flight but no mount rune). 

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I have been up and down on this game a lot. I was super hyped about the game before previews appeared, then started to worry about a lack of options when the game previews started, but having watched a couple of games and thought about the rules a bit, I am coming back around. I was confused why they didn’t talk about the scenarios much in the gmg review. (Sorry to harp on about this, but it is the highest profile Warcry video out there right now.) Then I noticed that in the recent gameplay video that they pretty much ignored the objective for most of the game. There didn’t seem to be much consideration about how the mechanics of the game actually worked.

In this game charging into a model that hasn’t been activated yet is probably a bad idea as you can only hit it once and it can immediately reply and hit you twice, so chowing targets carefully is going to be important.  Use the chaotic beasts in scenarios where they appear as a way to overcome a lack of numbers is an interesting but risky option. With only six abilities from your opponents side to remember, they aren’t going to many gotcha moments. At the beginning of each round , you will know if your opponent has the option to use a powerful quad ability and so you will be able to react. 

I’m excited by the idea of more chaotic beasts coming into the game. Imagine a game where both sides are competing to take down a gargant.

Now I just need to have a little conversation with my wife.

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I can absolutely understand, why people lik the game.
Also I can understand, why people don't like it.

But please, for the sake of humanity, several people should learn to accept negative opinions and dissapointment, even they can not confirm that themselves.
A negative opinion will not hit anyone in the face, or injure someone physically. The people don't liking stuff are not biased in any way, nor are they literally Hi*ler.

Please accept the standpoints without stigmatising people!

I would like to tell, why I think Warcry isn't going anywhere, at least at the moment.

1. Randomness due to availability of abilities within hero phase
2. much too restricted options of action, like literally move and hit
3. power peak within the factions, that is most certainly here to stay
4. the need to buy more stuff for fullfilling the hope of having more balanced warbands, and maybe more options

From my understanding, it was never anything like certain games, that where previously released. But GW stated, that it will be a little like KT, Shadespire in a skirmish manner.
So what is actually is, is a totally radnom beer and bretzel game, where the players throw dice all over the place to gain totally random bonuses on 6s, or using abilities to win, whenever someone rolled better in the hero phase.
If people like to have that random experience and can enjoy that, that's totally ok.

Personally, I don't like it.
In Skirmish games I expect factions, that do have like a 50%:50% chance to succeed, or at least something like 40%:60%. That's, as it seems, not given here, since the Golems seem to have significant advantage.
Then I don't like the restriction of actions, that are literally moving and hitting.
One player in each turn can just not interact with the enemy. That's leaves a player very defenseless and passive. So that advantage of certain factions can and will destroy the entire gameplay for one player right from the beginning, by not being able to counter act.

So for me, I can totally understand Owen in what he mentioned. The game is playable, but that's pretty it. But that doesn't qualify a good game for me.
The need to buy more stuff is just due to marketing purpose, and will not balance or change anything, that's what I am sure about.

I am dissapointed in what GW made out of a potentially great Skirmish option for AoS.

If anyone would feel offended by my honest, but not that shiny and positive opinion, then aknowledge, that all of you have the right to think different, and that this difference doesn't make us enemies in any way.

It is just the 2 sides of the same coin.

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I am never offended by a negative opinion.

But I am curious...

Why only center focus on “move and hit”?

Wait option seems very interesting for me. But is never mentioned when the critics of “It is only move and hit” appears.

It opens lot of gates and tactics. Of course you can move and try to hit the enemy as soon as you can take an action. But why not try to score the mission?  Why not take a good position, and wait for your opponent to try to broke it?

About the need of buying more stuff.... I can not take this seriously. It is really something that “surprise anyone”?

We are talking about Games Workshop. Of course you will need more miniatures  in order to make a good warband. You have to do this in all theirs games.  Of course you can make conversions, use proxy models, green stuff... whatever. Even buying a second box.

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22 minutes ago, Yirazk said:

I am never offended by a negative opinion.

But I am curious...

Why only center focus on “move and hit”?

Wait option seems very interesting for me. But is never mentioned when the critics of “It is only move and hit” appears.



I think what exacerbates the move and wait opinion in Warcry's case is the lack of a save roll. I don't think warcry's un-interactive because of this, because a save roll's just math that the system is forcing you to play out, when it could have done it in a less random way somewhere else. Which is what warcry did!

 

1 hour ago, Battlefury said:

But please, for the sake of humanity, several people should learn to accept negative opinions and dissapointment, even they can not confirm that themselves.
A negative opinion will not hit anyone in the face, or injure someone physically. The people don't liking stuff are not biased in any way, nor are they literally Hi*ler.

 

People are just very defensive at the moment because so far the highest profile review for a very hyped up system is sort of a rushed mess. Owen (finally got his name!) who was the main critic of it seemed like he was being unwillingly dragged through the entire process, and it really came off like he was spiting the game because of it. There's also the knowledge that a lot of people will now be heavily influenced by GMG's weighty opinion, potentially shearing off a portion of the playerbase before it even releases.

This kind of backlash is why most pro game reviewers who don't particularly enjoy hyper-competitive mobas or fighting games don't review em! It's particularly rough for Owen's case, but it's clear Warcry is the exact opposite of the kind of game he likes, just there wasn't any way for him to have possibly known beforehand, and now he has to help make an internets about it.

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I will just say that I am waiting for Miniwargaming's review and gameplay of this. They may not be perfect either, but I trust them a little more if that makes sense.

 

That being said, the previews for the extra warbands is getting me excited to try those. I can honestly say I want to try every faction now, both chaos and non chaos, and I'm happy they are there because the pure variety of warbands with these guys right out the gate could make the game more fun. Especially with the "These two starter box warbands are the same!" argument GwG seems to have. 

After thinking about it, the lack of customization really isn't a huge blow to me. not even as a GW fan. I accepted it, and seeing as how my idoneth army is an entire faction of monopose gits I can't be hypocritical of it, really.

 

I do wish there was a few more combat effects though. Some kind of system for throwing the target around, tossing them into walls or obstacles like some sort of Jackie Chan movie, more environmental attacks. maybe something for the future, but it would have been nice to have something like that. but, hey, I guess that's where theater of the mind comes in!

Edited by Acid_Nine
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I think we should probably at least wait for the game to be actually released and on sale before deciding whether it's a dumpster fire that will never be spoken of again and probably sink Games Workshop and in fact the entire hobby industry when millions of unsold copies have to be buried in a landfill in Arizona.

Anyway reasonably interesting Stormcast show this week with the Warcry project manager. More focused on the aesthetics/model design but gives you an idea of what a core project it's been for them in that they started work on it way back in 2016.

Edited by JPjr
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     Before we start passing judgement on the game or on other people’s opinions of it I would just like to remind everyone your local shops may well have a copy of the game to demo this weekend or by the weekend of the release. I know I for one am buying the game, several of the faction cards, cypher lords, and the terrain set. I don’t care if the game itself is the largest dumpster fire since HeroHammer, I’d just use the minis and the terrain in other games.

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40 minutes ago, Lior'Lec said:

     Before we start passing judgement on the game or on other people’s opinions of it I would just like to remind everyone your local shops may well have a copy of the game to demo this weekend or by the weekend of the release. I know I for one am buying the game, several of the faction cards, cypher lords, and the terrain set. I don’t care if the game itself is the largest dumpster fire since HeroHammer, I’d just use the minis and the terrain in other games.

Seeing you talk about the terrain set makes me super bummed that the cards for that won't be available independently. I already have the Sigmarite Mausoleum box, but to use them properly in Warcry I have to basically buy it agian. (Then again I could use more graveyard terrain for D&D.....)

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I am curious which existing miniatures could be included as beasts. Warhounds, Spawns? Maybe also some new miniatures for stuff like chaostrolls?

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There are so many options.  When I do play at a store it's at a place that also sells a ton of Reaper Bones so I'm going to go all out in that regard as well.  I always thought the grave guard looked wrong being a bit smaller than the normal skeletons so I'm using some Reaper crusaders painted up as evil warriors.

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6 hours ago, Nin Win said:

There are so many options.  When I do play at a store it's at a place that also sells a ton of Reaper Bones so I'm going to go all out in that regard as well.  I always thought the grave guard looked wrong being a bit smaller than the normal skeletons so I'm using some Reaper crusaders painted up as evil warriors.

     I haven’t seen any Grave Guard in person that I can recall... could you post a comparison pic of them with a standard skeleton warrior for me? Was just about to order some but if they’re smaller than regular skeletons or the sepulchral guard it’s a big no-no for me.

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They're not necessarily shorter (some are, some aren't depending on the legs and torso of the skeletons compared to certain graveguard ones), but they are more compressed and take up even less of the base than skeletons: 

share1.jpg.3e1a3e34e6537215d6598cd308d08010.jpg

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12 hours ago, obaobaboss said:

I am curious which existing miniatures could be included as beasts. Warhounds, Spawns? Maybe also some new miniatures for stuff like chaostrolls?

I think it will be a mix of new and old. Jabberslythe, warhounds, chimera, spawn etc but also some new beasties.

I would also like to see some mercenaries come into play, chaos trolls, etc.. maybe even a hangers on feature like necromunda could be interesting 

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On 7/22/2019 at 11:06 AM, robinlvalentine said:

I also don't see how Warcry actually curbs the snowballing campaign problem? There are less different ways your warband can get stronger, but ultimately one player can still end up with up to 300 more points than their opponent - that's still a foregone conclusion of a match, especially in a game where simply having bodies on the table seems so important.

 

You don't have to play the same player through the same campaign right? So your up 300 pts to me. I play a couple of other people first until I get closer. 

Don't know how that translates to real life. especially in smaller gaming groups, but that's the impression I got from the interviews/articles. 

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On 7/23/2019 at 3:55 AM, Acid_Nine said:

it is pretty weird... but that almost makes me think that sometime in the future there will be separate mount profile cards that certain champions can ride?

Look at what they have done with Kill Team, we have Heros and Elites, be unsurprising to have Warcry not include similar larger stronger models in the future (hopefully more new sculpts since we are on a chaos focus, and then of course AoS allegiances booster packs to add to the cards everyone can buy now 😉)

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1 hour ago, Kramer said:

You don't have to play the same player through the same campaign right? So your up 300 pts to me. I play a couple of other people first until I get closer. 

Don't know how that translates to real life. especially in smaller gaming groups, but that's the impression I got from the interviews/articles. 

Well sure, but you could say the same about any campaign system. Doesn't mean it's not a problem - there are situations for lots of people where it's not as simple or easy as just finding someone else to play that night. And considering this is supposed to be a system whereby anyone can play a campaign game against anyone at any time, it seems like an issue. 

It's not necessarily an insurmountable or game-killing issue - as I say, it's the same problem almost all campaign games have, and it does seem to have a few smart ideas (veteran warbands 'resetting' at the end of a quest, consumable equipment, and the idea that you can never fall below minimum points). Just not sure GW's bold claims about how much they've solved the problem seem that credible. 

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1 hour ago, robinlvalentine said:

Well sure, but you could say the same about any campaign system. Doesn't mean it's not a problem - there are situations for lots of people where it's not as simple or easy as just finding someone else to play that night. And considering this is supposed to be a system whereby anyone can play a campaign game against anyone at any time, it seems like an issue. 

It's not necessarily an insurmountable or game-killing issue - as I say, it's the same problem almost all campaign games have, and it does seem to have a few smart ideas (veteran warbands 'resetting' at the end of a quest, consumable equipment, and the idea that you can never fall below minimum points). Just not sure GW's bold claims about how much they've solved the problem seem that credible. 

Well, even when you fall behind you could have your own territories, or spend glory to get additional points, you have an ability to negate 17 glory points difference you know. IMO it's as good as it goes to make you able to stick to your own story at your own pace.

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6 hours ago, stato said:

Look at what they have done with Kill Team, we have Heros and Elites, be unsurprising to have Warcry not include similar larger stronger models in the future (hopefully more new sculpts since we are on a chaos focus, and then of course AoS allegiances booster packs to add to the cards everyone can buy now 😉)

I'm just wondering about the small preview of fangmora eels then. In AOS proper they have more attacks than the rider, but in Warcry they don't? Makes me wonder if they have their own separate 'card' to show the attacks and such. Same with Squigs

 

Also, I had an idea for a small "Campaign" for the local Gw, basically making a wall hanging with everyone's campaign card, so those people playing in the campaign group can see who has what for pickup games between the group. For outside the group I imagine just asking 'hey, would you mind if I played a campaign game' to someone would have mixed results if they don't know what you have.

 

also I could imagine having 'NPC' gangs for use for convergence quest enemies, like having some savage Orcs or gloomspite Gits separate from the campaign group and playing those to fight against, say, the Iron Golems during their quest.

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