Sentiment about the new releases

[NinjaDetective]

21 minutes ago, Throt the Unclean said:

Yeah, I agree they couldn't. If it sounds like that's what I was saying I didn't mean to. What I was saying is I think it would be better financially in the long run and more satisfying for people in general if they did a Gloomspite type of release for an army and then have that army wait however many years for new stuff because I assume it would lead to higher quality products. The two years number was introduced by the other person. 

 

I agree. Art is subjective. I'm not saying people can't like these new endless spells. They certainly can. But what I think isn't subjective is that GW has never released a new line of products that were just mashups of old sculpts. That seems to have some sort of objective level of bad and negative in relation to quality for a company that produces plastic 

Beyond when they just said hey kitbash those vargeist wings onto your crypt horrors = new unit. Also reusing assets is defietly something they have previously done.

 

In regards to a bigger release  but more time to wait, have you ever played an out dated army, maybe you have been playing skaven recently, rather than get a battle tome and some spells/terrain would you rather wait another 2-5 years for gloomspite sized release?

[Throt the Unclean]

9 minutes ago, NinjaDetective said:

Also reusing assets is defietly something they have previously done.

Do you have any examples? I haven't noticed it in AoS. If it has been done I can't imagine it was done to the same degree as with this Skaven/FEC release. I think I read others commenting about the horses and Calvary units being the same for some factions or something like that?

 

9 minutes ago, NinjaDetective said:

rather than get a battle tome and some spells/terrain would rather wait another 2-5 years for gloomspite release?

Totally. But that's partly why this release is such a gut punch. Skaven have already waited. lol We've been waiting since 7th edition Fantasy, over a decade. Skaven has to have some of the oldest models in AoS. And then they give us this terd. 

[Kirjava13]

9 minutes ago, Throt the Unclean said:

I think I read others commenting about the horses and Calvary units being the same for some factions or something like that?

As @JackStreicherhas pointed out, the endless spell with the horses just uses the Nighthaunt Black Coach/Dreadblade Harrow horses.

[JackStreicher]

16 minutes ago, Throt the Unclean said:

Do you have any examples? I haven't noticed it in AoS

Perhaps the ruins (o e being the same but with a floor)... apart from that they reuse their skulls every time but Afaik that‘s it  ^^

[NinjaDetective]

10 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

As @JackStreicherhas pointed out, the endless spell with the horses just uses the Nighthaunt Black Coach/Dreadblade Harrow horses.

Except there not. They look alike and probably share a base design,undead horse, but there are differences between them. I mean how different are undead horses going to look from eachother. 

 

The chalice spiit/blood effect is basically the same as the night haunt one admittedly, but again shareing a thematic style isnt an issue to me

[novakai]

46 minutes ago, XReN said:

Though me, and, I believe, many people in this hobby buy books not because of rules, but because they are pretty. GW can release pretty books separatly from useful rules that should be digital

I know they can but it just their business decision not too.

also constant rule changes in this hobby has drawbacks too 

[Mosquito onthe TenthFloor]

44 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Perhaps the ruins (o e being the same but with a floor)... apart from that they reuse their skulls every time but Afaik that‘s it  ^^

Back in the day, we always used to get the same body with a couple of different weapons to make them slightly different, so it’s the same basic model reused with minor variations.

That count?

[JackStreicher]

5 minutes ago, Mosquito onthe TenthFloor said:

Back in the day, we always used to get the same body with a couple of different weapons to make them slightly different, so it’s the same basic model reused with minor variations.

That count?

mhm... if they used that same body for other models (without really changing it) then yes. though they usually changed it quite a lot. Stormcast are recycled a lot, but that's fine since they just have the same middle-armor and shoulders.

[AaronWilson]

I love seeing recycling of models, both FEC / Skaven have perfectly good sculpts why waste more plastic for the sake of it

[Beliman]

@JackStreicher I know that there are low quality sculpts (endless spells and terrain being the "lazy ones"), but just move on (I mean, everyone in this forum knows what you think).

The new FEC hero, for me, is not one of them btw. Probably they have a base ghoul mesh, completly rigged and use their own library to swap ears, teeth, claws, head, etc... But even knowing this, it's awesome. Even if you have a big prop library to swap armours, pauldrons, chains, etc...if the final sculpt ends like this hero, then I'm pleased. The characteritzation is awesome too, and It was probably done in 10 minuts if they followed some concept, but I'm really happy with the final product.

@AaronWIlson I believe that he is not talking about production (molds, printing, how can be build, etc...). Only about 3D artists.

[Kirjava13]

2 hours ago, NinjaDetective said:

Except there not. They look alike and probably share a base design,undead horse, but there are differences between them. I mean how different are undead horses going to look from eachother. 

Dude the only difference is the lack of the "spirit" swirly stuff around their feet. They are otherwise identical.

[Skreech Verminking]

46 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said:

I love seeing recycling of models, both FEC / Skaven have perfectly good sculpts why waste more plastic for the sake of it

Well you probably haven’t seen the monkey rats from the nightrunners kits.

15 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

Dude the only difference is the lack of the "spirit" swirly stuff around their feet. They are otherwise identical.

I fully agree with you there.

There are a few things I myself find a bit lackluster.

2 hours ago, Throt the Unclean said:

Totally. But that's partly why this release is such a gut punch. Skaven have already waited. lol We've been waiting since 7th edition Fantasy, over a decade. Skaven has to have some of the oldest models in AoS. And then they give us this terd. 

And yes this is definitely what disappointed me most.

byt in the end, we haven’t really seen anything what the book will bring.

Many of these endless spells look fantastic, where other just well seem to be redone or seem to be a bit funny looking.

Still there might be a change where we might see in the near future battletomes and releases for specific skaven clans, where does who play them mixed will also profit.

In the end I’m much more satisfied when all the factions get a book and or update if needed, as soon as possible.

This would not only make it a bit easier to play a certain faction/armie but also give us some sort of an overview, what will be supported in the near future, guaranteeing new players of not loosing there armies to soon.

[Kirjava13]

52 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said:

Skaven have perfectly good sculpts

The Arch Warlock would like to have a word with you.

[michu]

Wait, Arch-warlock is great sculpt, it's only problem is that it's metal.

[Beliman]

16 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

Dude the only difference is the lack of the "spirit" swirly stuff around their feet. They are otherwise identical.

Base mesh is just a horse and an skeleton horse in the same position (probably both rigged). But everything else is new. They probably moved a bit their limbs in both tools (zbrush wording, don't know what software they use) and then they started sculpting (tweaking the "flesh" to gave that spirit form for Black Coach/ harrows horses and sculpting a bit of the mane and deformations on the rotting ones). Still it's not 4 days of work if you are looking for that answer, but if something just use a base mesh doesn't mean that's done with one click. Probably they had armor props for everything (the spikes from the Black coach, reins, etc..) and the skeleton horse (heads, ribs, etc...) is exaclty the same with more or less scratches and/ or teeth (and they probably have some brushes to do that), but it's not the same and the final product looks good (and I'm not defending them, some endless spells, imo, are a bit low on qualitat, but it's not a big deal).

[Kyriakin]

I am surprised we didn't get the following...:

• New Night Runners
• New Gutter Runners
• New Plague Censer Bearers
• New Vargulf
• Specific Courtier models (x3)

I am not aware of anything else that is desperate model-wise, but the Isle of Blood exclusive stuff is obviously a big elephant in the room (a squatting?).

As a BCR player, I had assumed that new plastic Yhetees and Frost Sabres were a given, but this release makes me less sure now. We must be below Skaven on the priority totem pole, and around the same place as FEC.

[stato]

14 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

I am surprised we didn't get the following...:

• New Night Runners
• New Gutter Runners
• New Plague Censer Bearers
• New Vargulf
• Specific Courtier models (x3)

I am not aware of anything else that is desperate model-wise, but the Isle of Blood exclusive stuff is obviously a big elephant in the room (a squatting?).

As a BCR player, I had assumed that new plastic Yhetees and Frost Sabres were a given, but this release makes me less sure now. We must be below Skaven on the priority totem pole, and around the same place as FEC.

I wouldnt be surprised to see a new Skaven faction in the near future (GW near, so like a year or more).  There is clearly potential for going nuts on the skaven asthetic, if you went mad with it though then it would not align with all the current and old stuff people have.  I guess a lot of people assumed one element might be left out of a combined tome to expand, I think maybe they decided it would be better to finalise existing stuff and develop something entirely new.  Who knows for sure though.

[Overread]

Skaven had new orgres, weapon teams, pack masters, engineers and clan rats all in the Island of Blood set. I'm honestly surprised that all those possibly barring the clan rats, were not retooled onto a new mould and released. 

But I'm also surprised that Tyranids dont' have a biovore pyrovore duel kit. 

 

There are gaps in the GW line up where we can see easy ways to fill them; but they are often singular views on armies withotu taking into account the larger view of the whole range across all games. GW is pumping out models and new stuff at a record pace - somewhere there have to be those that come first and other who come second. I'd rather wait longer for models than longer for Battltomes. You can build a good solid core of both armies without any old metal models and withoutany trouble and then when new s tuff comes its ready to slot into your existing army. 

[Skreech Verminking]

1 minute ago, stato said:

I wouldnt be surprised to see a new Skaven faction in the near future (GW near, so like a year or more).  There is clearly potential for going nuts on the skaven asthetic, if you went mad with it though then it would not align with all the current and old stuff people have.  I guess a lot of people assumed one element might be left out of a combined tome to expand, I think maybe they decided it would be better to finalise existing stuff and develop something entirely new.  Who knows for sure though.

I’m guessing something similar like Lon and Nighthaunt 

[AaronWilson]

There's not much point in me debating people liking sculpts / not liking them I'm a fan. Fair enough if people don't like em. 

[RuneBrush]

+++MOD HAT+++

Just a reminder folks, if you wish to rant, please go elsewhere to do it - it's not conducive to a positive environment.

k thx, bye

[EccentricCircle]

I have no strong opinions on the endless spells either way, but it is amusing me that this thread is the most literal example of flogging a dead horse i've ever seen.

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

After some more thought I've come to a conclusion on how i feel about the new releases and the precedent it sets for future releases:

To start i like that every army is getting endless spells and terrain, while the quality of rules and sculpts vary at least it's there, albeit some of the FEC ones look like they could have come from LoN. But this sets an... expensive problem. While endless spells are payed for with points and are entirely optional, the terrain is not optional and you're shooting yourself in the foot for not using it, which means that's one more kit you need to buy in order to play the army properly. To top it off these pieces all have weird base shapes so even if you didn't like the sculpt for the terrain, you would have a hard time making proxies you did like that matched the base size of the original terrain. 

Next I'd like to talk a bit about named characters, personally I like having named characters since I'm a lore nerd and enjoy seeing characters from the tomes and novels represented in the game. I know many people don't enjoy using named characters and like to forge there own narrative, I'm doing the same for a chamon themed slaanesh army right now. But I feel that each army should at least have that option for a named character, some armies not having one almost feels like that army is being left out in the grand scheme of the AoS narrative.

Last point I'd like to touch on is roster sizes. Obviously the poster boy army is going to get the most releases, and rebranded WFB armies already have a head start in unit options, but it feels like some armies are just being left behind. I liked what they did for gloomspite and beasts of chaos to help out two of what i guess i'd call b-list armies, but seeing the previewed changes to FEC it just seems lazy, no new units and instead of adding new options for battleline they make dragons battleline? I could rant for a while about my wishlisting for FEC but all I'll say is that taking an expensive kit that's already overused and making it battleline doesn't solve the problem of having a small roster and limited list building choices.

Just finished scrolling through the more recent messages and saw Rune's mod hat post on ranting, sorry for missing that!

[Sleboda]

3 hours ago, michu said:

Wait, Arch-warlock is great sculpt, it's only problem is that it's metal.

That's a benefit, not a problem.

[Forrix]

By and large I'm just happy to see a new battletome for an AoS original army. Its nice to know that old armies won't just be left in the dust. I will say a lot of the pre-Sylvaneth armies could use a new kit or two to broaden their roster (or get folded into a bigger army like Clan Pestilins has been).

My personal tinfoil hat theory though is that we might start seeing model releases decoupled from battletome releases down the road as battletomes are really about background and allegiance abilities in the age of warscroll cards and the AoS app. So there could very will be a new Flesh Eater model release next year.