Sentiment about the new releases

[Klamm]

While I think it's understandable to fear that backlash to this release will make GW less likely to release new tomes, I think we're forgetting the difference between community reception and sales. I'd wager that, while a GG Skaven release would usher in even more players to Skaven, an updated book guarantees most Skaven fans buying in. And yes, it's good to be happy and feel grateful that your faction is getting much-needed attention. 

One thing that certainly has its place, though, is a critique of that which IS coming out (at this stage, based on design and aesthetic merit). As someone who would probably buy into FEC if their models actually represented their deluded duality of savage cannibals/noble dukedoms, I think it's worth noting that the FEC endless spells are the least successfully themed ones to date.

I'm not sure where I could test this, but I'm certain you could show someone reasonably acquainted with AoS lore the endless spells for SE, Nighthaunt, BoC, Gitz or even the new Skaven ones and they could guess which faction they belong to. But the FEC stuff? It's just generic 'undead' stuff that could belong to Soulblight, Deadwalkers, Deathmages etc. 

I actually like this new guarantee of battletomes containing AT LEAST new terrain and some endless spells. It's not as sweet as new units, but it gives GW a cheap way of solidifying faction theme and mechanics. However, just because the new kits are cheaper to produce does not mean they should be low effort creatively. I suppose they can't all be hits. 

[JackStreicher]

Overall the FeC things are hastily put together kits, which really weren‘t needed. The whole release has two cool models: The Archregent and the zombie-horse stampede.

the rest really does either not make sense or looks like an intern merged some old sculpts.

they should have stuck with „new BT and the Archregent“. And I would have been a bit dissappointed but pleased.

 

This way I am feeling exploited by bad, unneeded, ugly endless spells and a non-sense throne of bones upon half of a wall with a tiny stairway which appears to be located in a Morrs garden.

If they give us sth. They should do it right and not cheap.

[CaptainSoup]

What you have to always remember is that you can never please everyone. It may sound like everyone complains at a drop of the hat, but in reality its actually different people complaining about a certain thing at a certain time. When something is broken and it affect someone they will complain about it. If the issue gets fixed then someone completely different will complaining about that change and the cycle repeats endlessly. A perfect example is the World of Warcraft forums. In all its years of being online that place never seems to stop complaining about something. This mentality happens in literally all forms of updatable content from tabletop to video games and beyond.

Whether all this complaining will lead to GW pulling the wrong lever and doing something they shouldn't to please the current vocal masses would depend on how much weight GW puts into all the screeching.  I would like to think they have a decent head on their shoulders and would rather look at something more concrete like tournament data and sales of a recent set of releases. If the sales of the new releases are up then its all peachy. If the models sold for the new releases aren't great then maybe they will invest in new models at a later date, or more realistically they already decided it wasn't worth the investment to make new models at this time and just wants to make sure the existing range remains viable enough for more steady sales of current models thanks to the new releases.

Regardless of the reasoning, maybe people probably shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth, at least not right away. At least you got a new horse lol.

[JackStreicher]

I have to point out: No one complained about the BTs but everyone who complained viewed the forced terrain and endless spells as inferior products.

[Kugane]

I am super happy with the Skaven tome. Idk what the endless spells will do but so far most releases seem meh, so I wont put my hopes on them. That rat spell though could be great to cut apart and turn into rat swarms on individual bases!

[Xelotath]

I’m a little disappointed that some of the old skaven kits weren’t refreshed in plastic and I feel that FEC could do with a new unit or two but they might do something creative in the tome.

That being said there are a lot of books that need a refresh and the new armies they release have been amazing bar none. So I’m happy to see old factions get a book and spells if that means the quality of the new factions remains the same

[JackStreicher]

7 minutes ago, xking said:

Maybe we should look at those endless spells rules first before you write them off completely. 

Well they can not explain to me how and why anyone would summon fresh corpses and a broken graveyard fence out of thin air.

I really don‘t care about their rules. I also think that the „Zombiedragon“ Battleline is their way to „fix“ the lack of (battleline) models - and therefor the overall lack of variety. 

But it‘s nice that they make it possible for a centerpiece model to fade into meaninglessness since you can now field 4! As Battleline! Yeah...crazy...oh no: lazy is the right word.

my forehead has the shapes of my hands imprinted by now, from all the facepalming when thinking about this release 🥺🤣

[JPjr]

I think the FEC spells are all nicely thematic, The Sang Graal is right on-brand.

[XReN]

5 minutes ago, xking said:

Maybe we should look at those endless spells rules first before you write them off completely. 

Honestly I absolutely hate the concept of forced terrain that will burden me with carrying it around and even though I like the chalice and horsies, fence looks bland

[HollowHills]

Both factions are getting two new heroes, endless spells and a scenery piece. Plus I think it's highly likely, at least for FEC, they may get new units / renamed options. Either way the existence of a battletome means that these armies will be significantly more effective in matched play than they have been since AoS started. 

Now given that FEC started life as a tiny microfaction with a handleful of vampire counts units I'd say they are doing well. 

GW can't release massive model ranges for every army. It's impossible to want that. 

What they are doing, which they never used to, is offering up to date rules support for as many armies as possible. We should all be grateful for that. 

[JackStreicher]

1 minute ago, XReN said:

Honestly I absolutely hate the concept of forced terrain that will burden me with carrying it around and even though I like the chalice and horsies, fence looks bland

Another issue with the terrain: I liked terrain since not every faction had it. Now you have to have it though the model might be (subjectively) ugly and crude.

[HollowHills]

5 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Well they can not explain to me how and why anyone would summon fresh corpses and a broken graveyard fence out of thin air.

I really don‘t care about their rules. I also think that the „Zombiedragon“ Battleline is their way to „fix“ the lack of (battleline) models - and therefor the overall lack of variety. 

But it‘s nice that they make it possible for a centerpiece model to fade into meaninglessness since you can now field 4! As Battleline! Yeah...crazy...oh no: lazy is the right word.

my forehead has the shapes of my hands imprinted by now, from all the facepalming when thinking about this release 🥺🤣

Just play a different army. If you're thst upset about FEC there are plenty of recently released AoS armies with huge ranges to play. 

[JackStreicher]

5 minutes ago, HollowHills said:

 

What they are doing, which they never used to, is offering up to date rules support for as many armies as possible. We should all be grateful for that. 

That is brilliant for sure. But enforced half-a***d sculpts for Terrain and endless spells is just wrong.

 

@HollowHills

so your argument is: You have a large Collection, since you are un-fanboyed just switch the army because GW is doing so many GREAT things. Criticism is not what you should do! Get rid of your opinion, burn your spent money for GW is the messiah. Be grateful!

[Brad Gamma]

1 minute ago, JackStreicher said:

That is brilliant for sure. But enforced half-a***d sculpts for Terrain and endless spells is just wrong.

You don't like the sculpts. This is a possibility for all releases. You can't extrapolate your opinion of a sculpt to infer the effort made by the team.

We also haven't seen the rules yet to know how powerful the terrain pieces are, but if even they are powerful, they are only enforced in the same way as every powerful unit i.e. you may feel compelled to take them to maximise your list. This is also true of every release.

[JackStreicher]

Just now, Brad Gamma said:

You don't like the sculpts. This is a possibility for all releases. You can't extrapolate your opinion of a sculpt to infer the effort made by the team.

 

I actually explained it as an professional 3D Artist in the Rumour Thread. The sculpts you are seeing are worth 3 hours of effort on average. 

I pretty much explained why they are as a fact „Inferior“ or more accurately cheap and hastily put together.

[rosa]

I think you should stop it here...

I am really happy for the skaven and flesh eater players!

[Karragon]

I'm always reminded of a comment made by a certain community manager for a certain popular MMORPG:

Quote

We could give all the players a block of solid gold with the meaning of life inscribed on it and some people would complain "Gold? Why isn't it platinum?" or "Meaning of life? Spoilers!".

You can't please everyone. Some people are always going to be disappointed for reasonable reasons, some are going to be disappointed for unreasonable reasons but those people you just ignore. The comments I've seen so far have been overwhelmingly positive and I for one am looking forward to starting a FEC army.

@JackStreicher so what if it only took 3 hours? There's no point spending extra time on something if it already looks good after 3 hours. I think the chalice, horse and throne all look excellent (not so fussed about the fence). You may not like them, that's fine, but your definition of "Inferior" is trying to pass off opinion as fact

[Brad Gamma]

18 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

I actually explained it as an professional 3D Artist in the Rumour Thread. The sculpts you are seeing are worth 3 hours of effort on average. 

I pretty much explained why they are as a fact „Inferior“ or more accurately cheap and hastily put together.

I don't read all of the rumour thread, but I had a look at what I assume is the post you are referring to.

You made a case for why they may have been quick to make. That doesn't mean they are objectively inferior or the designers lazy. For a quick release re-using assets might be very sensible since they will have a good idea about how each detail might interact with the printing process. This might have allowed them to fit something into a short time window that would have otherwise meant that nothing was released.

You also said that GW is a £2 billion company, which I'm not sure is correct. It has a market cap of < 1 billion and thats based on a share price that the company admits is inflated. The company still has to balance its resources against everything else.

Nobody is saying that you should never criticise GW and always be grateful, people are just criticising your criticism. 

[MightyMetro]

1 hour ago, Throt the Unclean said:

I've been very negative about the new release because of how extremely lazy it looks. Obviously, doing a dual release with Flesh Eaters Courts was too much for the GW creative team, having just come off of the incredible Gloomspite release. I would honestly have preferred only the book be released. I wish they would have put all their time and energy into that instead of half-assing the spells, terrain, and dice.

Arent we talking about three different teams for a Gloomspite scale release?  My understanding from the Stormcast podcasts was that terrain, spells, and dice are made by a seperate team.  Then there are the rules writers and finally the miniatures team.

Based on the LoN and BoC releases.  It seems GW is trying to increase the frequency of releases when miniatures arent an option.  Books and Terrain teams can obviously produce content more quickly. 

I would agree that the FEC terrain and spells arent quite as cool as those from Gloomspite, but FEC have never really appealed to me.  The Gnawholes and Skaven dice, however, look awesome.

[AaronWilson]

I don't understand some peoples logic, I see some people who were looking for updates to there army quickly move the goalposts to "Oh great now we will only get a update once every 5 years", confusing logic!

[HollowHills]

10 minutes ago, rosa said:

I think you should stop it here...

I am really happy for the skaven and flesh eater players. 

Agree. Will make a few local players happy. 

[JackStreicher]

1 minute ago, Brad Gamma said:

Nobody is saying that you should never criticise GW and always be grateful, people are just criticising your criticism. 

It seems like they are criticising that I am criticising. Wiht arguments like "if you don't like just ignore your collection and play another army". "Recycling is good because I pay the same amount of money for a non-generic design than I would for this generic one"

To me that is like saying:
"I know you love your oldtimer mercedes, but did you hear about the new autobody? It's mandatory now that you use the new unicorn autobody which they make out of their old unicorn toys. It costs just as much as a brand new design and it's objectively ugly. And if you refuse to change your autobody you will not be allowed on highways anymore. Sounds awesome! doesn't it?

 

It's okay to obviously recycle sculpts to a certain extend, but this is outrageous ^^

 

[novakai]

12 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

I actually explained it as an professional 3D Artist in the Rumour Thread. The sculpts you are seeing are worth 3 hours of effort on average. 

I pretty much explained why they are as a fact „Inferior“ or more accurately cheap and hastily put together.

Well to be fair, I feel like many of the faction endless spell are of varying quality to begin with like the nighthaunt and stormcast ones. Usually there only one good one out of the whole bunch. 

The tone rules could be good and all but it probably a miss opportunity to not expand an army that was made mostly of older models to begin with

[JackStreicher]

1 minute ago, novakai said:

Well to be fair, I feel like many of the faction endless spell are of varying quality to begin with like the nighthaunt and stormcast ones. Usually there only one good one out of the whole bunch. 

The tone rules could be good and all but it probably a miss opportunity to not expand an army that was made mostly of older models to begin with

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

[novakai]

7 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said:

I don't understand some peoples logic, I see some people who were looking for updates to there army quickly move the goalposts to "Oh great now we will only get a update once every 5 years", confusing logic!

It not like GW have a great history of being partial and fair so that where it comes from TBH