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The New Skaven Battletome, Terrain, Model & eSpells!

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3 hours ago, WoollyMammoth said:


I'm blown away by how well they combed through and actually made complete updates to the scrolls and the rule themes. They took out the cheese, which is to say the over-reliance on like 2 good scrolls in a sea of garbage. In exchange we get a massive box of fun toys and units that just work now and can all be fielded together. Honestly its all too much, its such a massive change that I can't process all this info.

Several of the units were so improved I almost couldn't believe it. The Warpseer in particular struck me as crazy good, not that the Corruptor's new plague spell is anything to sneeze at. And the new warpfire throwers... their hero hunting ability is diminished but just running the horde math in my head was dizzying.

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44 minutes ago, Vaeron said:

Several of the units were so improved I almost couldn't believe it. The Warpseer in particular struck me as crazy good, not that the Corruptor's new plague spell is anything to sneeze at. And the new warpfire throwers... their hero hunting ability is diminished but just running the horde math in my head was dizzying.

Yeah, I think the lizard-things especially those god damned rend ignoring saurus guard, will probaly hate the warpfire thrower even more than before🤤🤤😈

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I have to say I'm looking forward to giving my buddy's Daughters of Khaine a good hosing down.

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5 hours ago, Gwendar said:

And unfortunately(fortunately?) I'm having a hell of a time trying to make a singular list I could do well with.

60-120 Clanrat Tax? Check
Stormvermin? Maybe Gutter Runners instead?
1 WLC? Maybe 2? How about 6-12 Jezzails?
6+ Rat Ogors with a Master Moulder\Packmasters? How about an Abomination thrown in as well?
Thanquol + Warpseer + Screaming Bell + Arch-Warlock for a fun time with Magic...

I really can't fit everything I want\need into a 2k list and it's driving me insane... but in a good way.

Hmm I see what you mean...for me it will probably be more like Warpseer/Warbringer/Grey Seer for general maybe? Clawlords cuz they get traits for just standing around. Masters + Rat Ogors for support/distraction/hammer. At least 2x40 Clanrats. 3rd battleline will depend on other book stuff. Need some pew pew too...sacrificial Ratling Guns maybe. Im not sold on Jezzails at all. 1 attack that hits on 4+. Not worth the points considering other options. Now 1 or 2 WLCs might work....****** so many options lol

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I for one don't mind the investment into Ratling Gun Teams. They're going to pretty much delete chaff and hurt elites on an overcharge so why not? Wish they didn't insta-die after they spin up too fast. My only fear is they'll be picked off by ranged, and 3Ws ain't a whole lot.

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58 minutes ago, Zuriaxis said:

I for one don't mind the investment into Ratling Gun Teams. They're going to pretty much delete chaff and hurt elites on an overcharge so why not? Wish they didn't insta-die after they spin up too fast. My only fear is they'll be picked off by ranged, and 3Ws ain't a whole lot.

Thats why you bring like 5 of them or something!

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1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Im not sold on Jezzails at all. 1 attack that hits on 4+. Not worth the points considering other options. Now 1 or 2 WLCs might work....****** so many options lol

See, I swore off using them previously due to not having an unmodified hit of 6 for 2 MW's and I've just been using 2 WLC's (RIP old Arkhspark letting me fire 4 times per phase, although that's now "baked in") to pretty amazing success.

However, when you take the re-rolling failed hits and other Skryre buffs, 9-12 shots at a 30" range can get pretty crazy when targeting things that really need to die. Now of course, 2 Cannons can do this just as well I'm sure, but I think I'll be hopping back over to running jezzails for awhile and compare them. Maybe 6-9 Jezzails and 1 WLC for now with the option of adding another...

.....if I can find the points.

Edited by Gwendar

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For me the problem will be getting my hands on more transuranic arquebuses to convert more Jezzails, I only have three.

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8 hours ago, Zuriaxis said:

I for one don't mind the investment into Ratling Gun Teams. They're going to pretty much delete chaff and hurt elites on an overcharge so why not? Wish they didn't insta-die after they spin up too fast. My only fear is they'll be picked off by ranged, and 3Ws ain't a whole lot.

A fair bit of Skaven stuff is an easy target, the trick is to give your opponent so many targets and to expect losses and have alternative plans so that no matter what they pick off it was the "wrong" thing because the other parts of your army are able to make up the loss. 

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What about maxed clanrats for battleline (What else is there?) supported by cannons and big stuff  like Screaming bell, Thanquol, Doomwheel, Hell pit abomination. Sprinkle with some weapon teams.

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1 hour ago, Kirjava13 said:

For me the problem will be getting my hands on more transuranic arquebuses to convert more Jezzails, I only have three.

I was just reading Gods and Mortals and in one of the early stories whilst the Bear Eater Stormcast hero is battling one on one with a Skaven construct a Warplocke Jezzail makes a miss of a few inches - at a near 6 mile shot. For reference the best human sniper shot is just under 2.2 miles off! Those are some scary accurate guns and rats! 

Edit - the 2.2 is confirmed kill shot - the longest range that I can find is 3 miles. Still scary rats!! 

(though personally I might just put this one down to the Bear Eater overestimating the distance/writer research error)

Edited by Overread

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Ok guys, need some help here. Gonna go Grey Seer general on a balewind that I need keeping alive. So he’ll be +1 to save from the Balewind but I’m thinking about artefacts. Anyone have any mathhammer as to which is best out of a flat -1 to hit (Gryph-Feather Charm) or the new Suspicious Stone which is a 5+ extra save? I could use the trait that means he can pass off wounds on a 4+ as well?

Edited by 5kaven5lave

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Quickly going back to the Jezzails vs WLC, I'm wondering if the best comparison is 9 jezzails + Engineer\Arch-Warlock for the buffs vs 2 WLC's + Engineer\Arch-Warlock. Will be interesting to math out. I feel in the long term the Jezzails could take it, assuming you aren't overcharging 1 of the Cannons every time.

@5kaven5lave I had previously been using Ignax Scales for the longest time for a 4+ MW save, but that of course doesn't save against normal wounds (though, the Arch-Warlock on BW generally saved against normal wound). Is the stone a 5++ Wound\MW save? That setup does sound nice.

Edited by Gwendar

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1 hour ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Ok guys, need some help here. Gonna go Grey Seer general on a balewind that I need keeping alive. So he’ll be +1 to save from the Balewind but I’m thinking about artefacts. Anyone have any mathhammer as to which is best out of a flat -1 to hit (Gryph-Feather Charm) or the new Suspicious Stone which is a 5+ extra save? I could use the trait that means he can pass off wounds on a 4+ as well?

Whats the range for the pass off wounds ability? I havent used the Balewind in sometime but doesnt it have a ability to doesnt allow any units/models within 3" or something?

 

39 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Quickly going back to the Jezzails vs WLC, I'm wondering if the best comparison is 9 jezzails + Engineer\Arch-Warlock for the buffs vs 2 WLC's + Engineer\Arch-Warlock. Will be interesting to math out. I feel in the long term the Jezzails could take it, assuming you aren't overcharging 1 of the Cannons every time.

9 jezzails + engi are a loooot of points. You better protect them well from deepstriking lol

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Having done a bit of dice rolling because I'm a nerd and it's fun, 9 Jezzails that didn't move with a spark on them can quite comfortably knock out a Cauldron of Blood, or at least take it to the brink of death. I'm uncertain of the value of putting More-More Warp Power on them, as if they didn't move you already reroll hits, so suffering the D3 mortal wounds just for wound rerolls seems less enticing and will drastically reduced your output from your expensive fragile unit BUUUUT letting them move gives them a 36" threat range and you can pump out 15-20 damage quite nicely. 

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1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Whats the range for the pass off wounds ability? I havent used the Balewind in sometime but doesnt it have a ability to doesnt allow any units/models within 3" or something?

The Balewind rule is it can’t be set up within 3” of enemy models, otherwise it’s fine as long as you set up within an inch of the caster.  The pass off trait is to a friendly Skaventide unit within 3” I think. 

Edited by 5kaven5lave

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1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Whats the range for the pass off wounds ability? I havent used the Balewind in sometime but doesnt it have a ability to doesnt allow any units/models within 3" or something?

 

9 jezzails + engi are a loooot of points. You better protect them well from deepstriking lol

What @5kaven5lave said. It used to be that nothing could come within 3" before the Malign Sorcery changes. Using this tactic should be relatively simple then.

And yes, it is a lot of points, but the threat of them being able to go through gnawholes to surprise knock something out could be effective. Rough estimate from @Kirjava13 seem pretty promising to that extent. Hell, even if they don't move, contending with a 30" range is still quite nice. Previously I kept them parked on home objectives screened by 20-40 Clanrats... but now it should be even easier for them to earn back their points and they can teleport if needed, which I assume will not count towards normal movement (in the same way that Realm Wanderers doesn't count towards Sisters of the Watch shoot twice ability) and thus they should be able to re-roll upon teleport.

They don't really need an Engineer, but if you have the points I would throw one in just for the sake of another decent wizard. Definitely an eggs-in-one-basket maneuver, but it could pay off well. I think even 6 may be a good number to go hero-hunting with since the unmodified 6's are a thing.. but at that point you really have to start comparing it to 1-2 WLC's.

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Out of interest what are people thinking about Doomflayers at present? 

To my eye its a curious contraption because of its D6 attacks from its main weapon. Even on a charge where its got a 2+ To Hit, its number of attacks is risky at best. Furthermore its overcharge can break on 7 or any double so that's quite risky by skaven standards. It essentially makes it a bit of one-hit-wonder in that it wants to charge and overdrive whatever it hits to actually do something even if it has a high chance of blowing up in the process. 

 

For something that visually looks like it should munch through infantry and low save models; its -1 rend and its potential low number of attacks makes it more of a viable option against fewer, but slightly tougher models; but certainly not something that should be operating alone. 

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8 minutes ago, Overread said:

Out of interest what are people thinking about Doomflayers at present? 

To my eye its a curious contraption because of its D6 attacks from its main weapon. Even on a charge where its got a 2+ To Hit, its number of attacks is risky at best. Furthermore its overcharge can break on 7 or any double so that's quite risky by skaven standards. It essentially makes it a bit of one-hit-wonder in that it wants to charge and overdrive whatever it hits to actually do something even if it has a high chance of blowing up in the process. 

 

For something that visually looks like it should munch through infantry and low save models; its -1 rend and its potential low number of attacks makes it more of a viable option against fewer, but slightly tougher models; but certainly not something that should be operating alone. 

Well, I think he is playable if needed, but that he lost his D3 damage output, just makes him so much worse and keeps you from taking him. The risk of overcharging it is high, and the reward for doing so is very low.

So I guess we won’t be seeing him too much if even at all at the table.

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The Doomflayer wasn't really worth taking before and he's even less worth taking now, which is sad because I have one.

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13 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Ok guys, need some help here. Gonna go Grey Seer general on a balewind that I need keeping alive.

Dont forget the new allegiance ability for look out sir working for melee and shooting. -1 to hit there if rats are around the base of the balewind, gryph feather charm is also good. Frankly the seer is still tough to keep alive. I'd still recommend an archwarlock on the vortex if you want to present hugely survivable hero with all of these same buffs. If he dies, then you can use the grey seer with balewind in following turns. 

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Has anyone seen a video of the new Skaven dice? Are they as bouncy as the Gloomspite ones?

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14 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Previously I kept them parked on home objectives screened by 20-40 Clanrats... but now it should be even easier for them to earn back their points and they can teleport if needed, which I assume will not count towards normal movement

The gnswholes need to be set-up within 8 of s table edge* so being in range of an objective and wholly within 6 of a gnawhole is very dependent on the situation. 

*according to gmg reviews, 

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4 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Dont forget the new allegiance ability for look out sir working for melee and shooting. -1 to hit there if rats are around the base of the balewind, gryph feather charm is also good. Frankly the seer is still tough to keep alive. I'd still recommend an archwarlock on the vortex if you want to present hugely survivable hero with all of these same buffs. If he dies, then you can use the grey seer with balewind in following turns. 

That’s a good shout. I’ll experiment with it for definite, want to run low body count Skryre though so LOS! might not help much. The reason for the Grey Seer is they get a +1 to cast, unbind or dispel once per turn trait and the spell that reduces enemy movement, was hoping to use that and the Vortex to lock down a killing field for my 3 overcharged WLCs early doors. 

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