Carnivore Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Hello there! In my local meta, there is one guy...well, to be accurate it is two guys with 80% the same list...that noone knows how to ever win against. The list is as follows: 1 Lord Arcanum on Gryph charger 1 Lord Relictor 1 Lord Ordinator 5 Sequitors 5 Sequitors 5 Sequitors 5 Evocators 2 Celestar Ballista The other players list is: 1 Lord Arcanum 1 Knight Incantor 5 Sequitors 5 Sequitors 5 Sequitors 5 Evocators 5 Evocators 1 Celestar Ballista Balewind Vortex Malevolent Malestrom In our local store we play 1250 point tournaments. Both players use to deep strike the Ballistas and some units. If anyone has suggestions, it would really be appreciated! Cheers/// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vextol Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 What army are you bringing against them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praecautus Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 If you play idoneth deepstrike a unit near them - they have to shoot the nearest unit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vextol Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Nurgle 30x plagues Lord of blights Rottigus Karnak Blight kings Should hold up against the ballistas, mortal wounds to sprinkle, good anti spell and some damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 50 minutes ago, Carnivore said: Hello there! In my local meta, there is one guy...well, to be accurate it is two guys with 80% the same list...that noone knows how to ever win against. The list is as follows: 1 Lord Arcanum on Gryph charger 1 Lord Relictor 1 Lord Ordinator 5 Sequitors 5 Sequitors 5 Sequitors 5 Evocators 2 Celestar Ballista The other players list is: 1 Lord Arcanum 1 Knight Incantor 5 Sequitors 5 Sequitors 5 Sequitors 5 Evocators 5 Evocators 1 Celestar Ballista Balewind Vortex Malevolent Malestrom In our local store we play 1250 point tournaments. Both players use to deep strike the Ballistas and some units. If anyone has suggestions, it would really be appreciated! Cheers/// Challenge accepted. 240clanrats and 1packmaster. have fun killing all my clanrats while they are camping on the objectives edit: fear the Vermintide, Yes-yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nos Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 45 minutes ago, Carnivore said: Hello there! In my local meta, there is one guy...well, to be accurate it is two guys with 80% the same list...that noone knows how to ever win against. The list is as follows: 1 Lord Arcanum on Gryph charger 1 Lord Relictor 1 Lord Ordinator 5 Sequitors 5 Sequitors 5 Sequitors 5 Evocators 2 Celestar Ballista The other players list is: 1 Lord Arcanum 1 Knight Incantor 5 Sequitors 5 Sequitors 5 Sequitors 5 Evocators 5 Evocators 1 Celestar Ballista Balewind Vortex Malevolent Malestrom In our local store we play 1250 point tournaments. Both players use to deep strike the Ballistas and some units. If anyone has suggestions, it would really be appreciated! Cheers/// What battleplans do you use? Can see how it would be strong in certain circumstances but by no means all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Nos said: What battleplans do you use? Can see how it would be strong in certain circumstances but by no means all Unbeatable you say, clearly this foe of yours has never seen a true Vermintide. I think it’s time to go to your place and show him what it means to mess with the skaven race. “Yes-yes kill-slay posterthings, they shall all suffer-Die!!!” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucio Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Anything with a -1 to hit is your friend here. If you can stack -2 even better. It'll weaken their relatively cheap tactic (I'm assuming they deepstrike to use the Rapid Fire) Off the top of my head Gloomspite Gitz and Plaguebearers both can do this, plus a Lord of Blights can boost another unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nos Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Nighthaunt have the disadvantage vs D3 on the Maces but otherwise are quite anti-this list. Ignore rend, move fast, chance to attack twice, good MW output, can set up in reserve. A lot of Chainrasp and Spirit Hosts buffed with Soul of Torment I think would give them a run for their money, really don’t have to kill much to make that army ineffective. I’m assuming Ballista are an issue, but if you have multiple units they can only do so much damage at once. Knight of Shrouds Guardian of Souls 10 Chainrasp Horde 1 Spirit Hosts Geminids Or 9 Chainrasp, 2 Spirit Hosts and Quicksilver Swords Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 The Ballistas are pretty mucht he issue there. The Infantery just shields it so well, due to their rerollable "anything", that it is pretty hard to reach the ballistas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Vextol said: What army are you bringing against them? We had: Ironjawz Nighthaunt Skaven Nurgle Khorne Dispossessed None stood a a chance. In some cases I know why, because like Khorne is just not good at less than 2k points. I played Nighthaunt, but due to matchmaking I didn't face the two SCE players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Using all the rules really helps. Random battleplans, random realm rules, etc. Mr. Double Ballista will sure be hurting if you end up with the 6" range realm rule, for instance. And the Total Commitment battleplan could also help even the tables a bit (I was at an event where they rolled at the time of the round for everything, and ended up with my Ballista Battery and Celestant-Prime starting on the table in the dark - that was an uphill climb let me tell you). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 We actually don't play with the realm ruls. The realm artifacts are used, so as the endless spells. But the realm rules itself are not a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbanks Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 I’ll be honest, I read the title and thought it was a clickbait article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 21 minutes ago, Fairbanks said: I’ll be honest, I read the title and thought it was a clickbait article. Oh ok, but well, it is really, what it is This list is a real problem in our local meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svnvaldez Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 4 hours ago, Carnivore said: We actually don't play with the realm ruls. The realm artifacts are used, so as the endless spells. But the realm rules itself are not a thing. I would also recommend start by using all the rules. Use realm rules and roll of the battleplans. Those players would be in deep trouble if you roll a hero scoring mission and they are playing vs a tough character with -1 hit (there are realm artifacts that give this). SCE are an easy army to build a net list because they are cheap in terms of $$$ and require few models. Probably the best starter army there is. 30x2 grimghasts would steam roll that list and comes in at 720 points. But it costs more $$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Rend is undoubtedly helpful against the Stormcast, but the Sequitors are very difficult to kill. When properly equipped the Sequitors reroll all failed saves, thye have two wounds each, and when within 9” of the Lord Arcanum thye have a 6+ feel no pain save. I played them this weekend and attacked them with a unit of 20 Ardboyz throwing out 6 attacks each after the Waaagh. Took me 2.5 combat phases to wipe them out. Then the entire unit came right back when he rolled a 5 after they were destroyed. The Chamber he took has that ability when Redeemer unit is destroyed it comes back on a 5-6. The Sequitors are very op and need a large points increase. (Evocators too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwabbele Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Ken said: The Sequitors are very op and need a large points increase. (Evocators too Lol , I am a bad player please nerf. sorry but bringing a 0 rend unit to a sequitor party is just stupid. Guess what 4 Morghast insta gibbed 9 of my 20 Seqs and I didn’t say nerf Morghast. Or how do du feel against skeletons which just get revived or the whole unit has an autoressurect for 1cp - also nerf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, schwabbele said: Lol , I am a bad player please nerf. sorry but bringing a 0 rend unit to a sequitor party is just stupid. Guess what 4 Morghast insta gibbed 9 of my 20 Seqs and I didn’t say nerf Morghast. Or how do du feel against skeletons which just get revived or the whole unit has an autoressurect for 1cp - also nerf? What’s stupid about having an armie with zero rend. I mean as long as your armie significantly beats your opponents armie with number you should be fine. So start your skaven armie today and play with 240++ clanrats your foe into the ground😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedraxis Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 10 minutes ago, schwabbele said: Lol , I am a bad player please nerf. sorry but bringing a 0 rend unit to a sequitor party is just stupid. Guess what 4 Morghast insta gibbed 9 of my 20 Seqs and I didn’t say nerf Morghast. Or how do du feel against skeletons which just get revived or the whole unit has an autoressurect for 1cp - also nerf? You are saying that a 440 point unit killing 180 points on the charge is bad even tho the remainder would probably still kill off 220 points of morghast with their attack. All the while sequitors are battleline, get rerolls and bonuses of all sorts and were probably protecting something even more important behind them. Sequitors just punch waaaaay too hard for all the defence they bring at their price point, they're like Grimgast Reapers but with battleline options and they should absolutely get a point raise. Lots of new players have trouble dealing with these solid defence units that reroll saves and hit back like trucks. It makes sense, because they often require mortal wounds or other advanced tactics to deal with them efficiently. Especially hard when many players field sequitors and evocators exclusively Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Bring some rend/mortal wounds/shooting and kill their heroes, use missions and realms that can counter that, bring some Soulsnare Shakles and cheap screens to drag evocators, look for some hit debuffs like Gemenids. Go heavy on monsters, they can easily bully MSU Stormcast around whille surviving ballista shooting them, my Ghoul King on terrorgheist was able to survive 4 ballista onslaught buffed by LOrdinator with only his 5++ prevent spell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwabbele Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 25 minutes ago, Sedraxis said: You are saying that a 440 point unit killing 180 points on the charge is bad even tho the remainder would probably still kill off 220 points of morghast with their attack. All the while sequitors are battleline, get rerolls and bonuses of all sorts and were probably protecting something even more important behind them. Pointwise they are nearly the same, thats whats counting in matched play for me. And I killed 1 before the unit was gone. and believe me moving 20 from them around is not as easy as you might think they have 40mm bases. There are multiple ways to lock them inefficiently in place. But avoid them if you can, at least I field them only to grab/block objective usually never for offensive reasons. nerfing just because i feel like it is no solution. Sce has about 50% win rate in tourneys so they seem rather fine. How about we buff ironjawz?:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 34 minutes ago, Sedraxis said: You are saying that a 440 point unit killing 180 points on the charge is bad even tho the remainder would probably still kill off 220 points of morghast with their attack. All the while sequitors are battleline, get rerolls and bonuses of all sorts and were probably protecting something even more important behind them. Sequitors just punch waaaaay too hard for all the defence they bring at their price point, they're like Grimgast Reapers but with battleline options and they should absolutely get a point raise. Lots of new players have trouble dealing with these solid defence units that reroll saves and hit back like trucks. It makes sense, because they often require mortal wounds or other advanced tactics to deal with them efficiently. Especially hard when many players field sequitors and evocators exclusively There is no way sequitors kill 2 morghast on return unless you're stupid enough to charge them right into heavy weapons, once they loose their shields they are not rerolling their saves and with just 4 wounds in small unit it will happen quite fast, or SC player will have to remove heavy weapons, or take 3 shield models and now sequitors are only slightly better than liberators. Right, as we need another not-worth-to-consider unit in SCE army. Only change they need is removing horde discount. There are 2 healthy ways to approach the desire to be competetive and win - getting whatever is OP in the game and going with meta flow or gettin gud with your army that you love, you can't expect a newbie to win against more seasoned player, there is really nothing to complain about and I tell you, if some of mentioned list show up at a tournament where I live, they will be eaten alive and walk away with one major win at best. Like come on, there are a bunch of stuff in the game that can stomp those lists either by overwhelming numbers or overwhelming force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 16 hours ago, Nos said: Nighthaunt have the disadvantage vs D3 on the Maces but otherwise are quite anti-this list. Ignore rend, move fast, chance to attack twice, good MW output, can set up in reserve. A lot of Chainrasp and Spirit Hosts buffed with Soul of Torment I think would give them a run for their money, really don’t have to kill much to make that army ineffective. I’m assuming Ballista are an issue, but if you have multiple units they can only do so much damage at once. Knight of Shrouds Guardian of Souls 10 Chainrasp Horde 1 Spirit Hosts Geminids Or 9 Chainrasp, 2 Spirit Hosts and Quicksilver Swords Evocators with staff laugh at nighthaunts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 I can't tell you how to win, but I can tell you how to start the process of working out how to win: 1) Watch and play games against the army and see how the stormcast player is moving and positioning and working their army. You seem to already be doing this by identifying that they are relying heavily on the ballista as a weapon platform and defending it whilst it fires. Identify as many patterns of gameplay like this as you can; even down to seeing and noting what units they favour attacking with the ballista. 2) Look up the stats on the army and the common units used through the GW website. Check out the warscrolls and see what they are like. The key here is that you're looking at special abilities and saves and such; but also attacks. You want an idea of what kind of damage they can deal out as well as what kind they can take. 3) Consider that sometimes the way to win isn't in a head long battle. Sometimes you've got to take an advantage. If the enemy is, for example, camping around their ballista they might not be as mobile to secure multiple objectives. You could fragment your army and, whilst no single fragment could stand an assault; you could use that to secure multiple objectives and win the game on points whilst the SC player might be more limited in mobility if they are defending their ballista heavily. 4) Consider your own army and look through at what tricks you've got. Have you got models that can deep strike any point on the table; that could get behind a defensive line and take out the ballista. Even if you lose them it would shut down that avenue of attack for the SC player. 5) If the ballista is only one element can you tangle their troops up? Skaven can do well at throwing blocks of waste rats at the enemy which will entangle them for many turns whilst they have to kill them off; whilst at the same time leaving the player with more units to move around and secure objectives. 6) Look at armour saves and rending and look at your spells and equipment. Maybe you've got to use a specific unit or two and bolster them with spells to get a reliable power block that you can use to take out those high save models. 7) Don't forget Endless Spells. Something like the scythe could be deadly if the enemy is all bunched up or the barrier wall could give you a turn of protection from ranged damage. The first key is reading and comprehending your opponents army and tactics; from there you can start to adapt your own. This is a lot easier if you've players who are relying on a limited run of tactics to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.