Gutbuster Lore in the Mortal Realms

[Shankelton]

So I find the best hook I have for getting into a faction is writing short stories and reading lore regarding the range in question. Recently been doing some Dispossessed, Soulblight, and Blades of Khorne brainstorming, but between those projects i'll admit I've always loved ogres. Both in models, and their general inspiration derived from the mongols/ huns. 

Problem is, out of all the factions I try to craft stories for, gutbusters seem to always allude me. I can't seem to come up with anything like I can for the more organized, order races. Anyone perhaps approach their army in this narrative manner? Would love to hear stories you might have for your armies. Their motivations, how you view their society.

One particular question I had. How smart is an Ogre? I see many people refer to them as lumbering idiots, but the lore i've read seems to conflict that. Instead, that they're rather intelligent, and often other races underestimate and mistake their bluntness for stupidity.

 

[Walrustaco]

In quite a few stories, ogors are seen or mentioned wandering Azyr. In one book, a bunch of different races are watching Grungni smith and there are ogors among them.

In Call of Archaon some ogors attack the main khorne guy and his fellow khorne people out of a need to avenge their leader. So I guess ogors aren't totally selfish and can develop bonds, if you wanna look at it that way.

[michu]

"Lumbering idiots" is a relic of oldhammer and Blood Bowl I think. In AoS Ogors can be cunning or at least fairly intelligent (unfortunately that's only my opinion, nothing official, but in the Mortal Realms anything can happen). Try to imagine them as close-bonded tribes of all-eating warriors that sometimes work as mercenaries and have spiritualistic beliefs. Less feral than orks and grots, but not as civilized as humans. Something in-between.

[Klamm]

Ogres were always a favourite faction for me in WFB, and the snippets of lore we have in AoS hasn't altered their core identity.

I've always found their trait of unambitious curiosity particularly endearing. They aren't truly stupid, but they are too lazy to put their mental faculties to effective use. Ogres in the Old World had great 'wanderlust' in their bones, and so it was common for adult bulls to simply up sticks and go adventuring (I haven't seen a direct allusion to this in the new lore, but I'd have thought they'd keep it). 

So for me, there's a lot to work with from a narrative POV. Ogres are perhaps the most ideal protagonists for a comedic adventure. What separates them from the battle-mad Orruks is that, while often equally naive and dunder-headed, their motivations are more relatable. Food is obviously a massive part of that, and what gives the faction its 'colour', but Ogres are greedy for wealth, respect, power and all manner of relatably Epicurean things. The saga of Golgfag Maneater is kind of a perfect version of this: he's got the same sort of blundering luck as Thanquol, but Ogres are more readily 'human' than Skaven in their actions.

I think the main issue with Gutbuster lore atm is how these Old World aspects are placeholder awaiting proper integration. Gnoblars, for example, were an integral part of Ogre culture, but this hasn't to my knowledge been properly explored. 

[novakai]

in GA: destruction they had an excerpt about a named character

"Gorblug the Gutlord, known as the Horror of the Realms, is a corpulent prince of the Gutbusters Ogors that leads the Golden Horde. Under his command this horde wanders the Mortal Realms devouring and ransacking anything in their way. When he finds them a fortification the Gutlord offers the besieged a choice, give them their supplies and treasure or become food, and those that do find that it only gives the ogors to recover their strength and ransack their land."

the only other lore bit is that they worship Gorkamorka as the Great Beast that Consumes the World, I am pretty sure that like all the destruction aspect of Gorkamorka is going to be a lot of tall tales that may or may not have happen

 

[Shankelton]

Appreciate all the replies! 

Unfortunately, seems it is simply a case of Ogres not having shown up that much in AoS yet. Glad that someone atleast shares my hope that they have some manner of cunning! Blunt and brutal like Orruks can be fun, but I find it terribly hard to write compelling fiction/ character hooks when things are so simple. The ally chart might be a decent indication. The fact Gutbusters don't ally themselves to Orruks means that their societal goals differ. 

 

[James S]

Great thread! Need more Ogor more!

[Lucio]

On 1/31/2019 at 2:15 AM, Shankelton said:

 Blunt and brutal like Orruks can be fun, but I find it terribly hard to write compelling fiction/ character hooks when things are so simple. The ally chart might be a decent indication. The fact Gutbusters don't ally themselves to Orruks means that their societal goals differ. 

 

Thought to consider, your block on writing blunt and simple might be because you're trying to empathise with your characters, and don't see yourself in them.

 

So, what can you do to stick to blunt and simple without necesscarily being dumb? Start with motivations, strip away society's goals and think what it'd be like to have to survive. How cunning a hunter do you have to be to catch an 8 eyed deer, or find water in a magic infesfed wasteland? What bonds do you form when everyone is a competitor for survival (think prison drama)?

 

You can be blunt and simple, but still have the sly one, the brute, the planner, the nice one, the mean one. What they don't do is philosophise about *why*, they just *do*

 

 

Whilst I'm not much of a writer, consider this character

 

"Zharg watched carefully as Kronk and Beata divided up the meat from the man they'd caught trying to steal their glowy rock. Since they'd found the rock Zharg had felt different, stronger, and better able to prepare traps for their prey. He wondered if he could get another glowy rock to make him even stronger so he could mate with someone as beautiful as Beata"

Make sense? You've got characterisation, mistrust of peers, a goal (become more powerful to gain a mate) and some understanding of the world, without knowing that the glowy rock is mutating warpstone.

[Kramer]

What does happen, Is the ogor bouncer/bodyguard. They are smart enough to hire out their services, the still got the wanderlust and they do interact with the protagonist in a non-violent way. 

Since ogre kingdoms they never seemed dumb to me, but they just didn’t have the same goals and motivations as humans. That’s why stories like greasus the tyrant king, the butcher with stumps and golfag man eater worked. It took an overlapping motivation that made it recognisable. Greed, revenge and wanderlust. I would suggest trying to find something that you can relate to and make that the core of the character. 

[That Guy]

Don’t forget the Beastclaw Raiders battletome, while no gutbusters, they still are Ogres.

[Dr Ben]

I'm sure you can find examples of text written by people with intellectual disability or interviews about their experiences which you could use for ideas if you wanted to pursue the low IQ line. 

Alternatively it could be fun to try to develop an atypical ogor character. I've been thinking about my tyrant as Saill "Big'art" O'mentum. A progressive kind of ogor who has come up with innovations such as: sharing the loot equally (except I get the most cause it was my idea), treating other ogors from all realms equally (they all taste the same anyway) and not eating all the duardin all at once (if we leave some alive there's more beer when we come back). 

[Shankelton]

On 2/19/2019 at 10:26 AM, Dr Ben said:

I'm sure you can find examples of text written by people with intellectual disability or interviews about their experiences which you could use for ideas if you wanted to pursue the low IQ line. 

Alternatively it could be fun to try to develop an atypical ogor character. I've been thinking about my tyrant as Saill "Big'art" O'mentum. A progressive kind of ogor who has come up with innovations such as: sharing the loot equally (except I get the most cause it was my idea), treating other ogors from all realms equally (they all taste the same anyway) and not eating all the duardin all at once (if we leave some alive there's more beer when we come back). 

Truthfully, I tend to view Ogor's as intelligent. Low cunning, often underestimated...  but smart and savvy, just very blunt and simple in what they want.

The low IQ, smash and bash, speaking in incomplete sentences shtick is best left to the orruks and Ironjawz imo! Of course, without much in the way of story or representation, its hard to say what they'll look like in the mortal realms. Its hard for me to get too invested in an army if they can't form complete sentences, or their motivations boil down to just smashing the thing. It's why I fell out of love with the ironjawz and Orruks in general! 
 
They can be bartered with, employed if the pay is good. People throw around the idea for barbarian humans as a destruction faction... to me, that is totally the space ogors, at least gutbusters, occupy. They're not the anathema of Civilization like some of the other destruction forces, but their presence will often, ultimately, destroy their surroundings. Simply given their insatiable, nomadic tendencies. 
 

On 2/19/2019 at 7:30 AM, That Guy said:

Don’t forget the Beastclaw Raiders battletome, while no gutbusters, they still are Ogres.

and thanks! I should give that a good read over to get some inklings on Ogor customs. Obviously BCR are their own niche thing, but like you said they are ogors.