Black Library Issues

[Austin]

Here is the bottom line- I love reading Aos/40k novels.  I have most of the books available and want to keep enjoying them.  Lately I have been feeling pretty irritated by Black Library's business practices and wanted to see how others dealt with them.

Recently BL increased the price of their eBooks from 15.99 USD to 16.99 USD for new novels. This price increase did not impact you if you buy books in pounds- they are still 9.99 GBP.   So far the price increases only show up ahead of time for a few books, and then when they are released the prices increase.  I emailed BL to ask if they intended to raise prices and they sent back an email saying they didn't know anything about a price increase.

In case you are wondering, 9.99 GBP does not exchange to 16.99 USD.  It is something like 13.20 USD currently.  So that is one question.  Why the difference for a product that requires no shipping or other import taxes?

Now, I fully understand that an increase of one dollar doesn't mean much when you consider that we all buy expensive plastic models (I just spent a loooooot on Gloomspite).  My point is that I feel taken advantage of by Black Library, and by association Games Workshop as a whole.  In comparison to other eBooks, BL prices are high.  I get they want the product to be premium, but this seems to be taking it too far. It is sort of the straw that broke the camel's back at this point.

This has me so annoyed that I don't particularly want to buy their novels any longer, which is a problem given that I have been very much enjoying the AoS and 40k fiction for years.  How do you (of you do) get over feeling like BL and GW are trying to push the envelop as far as possible?  I want to find some sort of middle ground.

[Overread]

GW's general translation of prices into other currencies is, like many companies, a matter of mythical elements to most people. Few companies use a straight conversion on price, which is why when you deal with higher priced goods, like camera lenses, you get grey importers. Perfectly legal, but people who buy in one territory and ship and sell in another.

The reasons for variation in price can be varied and hard to pin down. Sometimes unforseen postage and shipping costs actually inflate prices as might local variations in tax. The company itself might not be seeing any more profit even if the end product appears to be priced higher. In addition not every company has perfect distribution networks so distribution overseas might come through what might be an imperfect system that results in increased prices; however investment in local production or a better system might not be cost effective. 

 

BL does charge a premium I will agree there. Their books are typically more expensive than many regular market options.

 

That said the only real issue I have (and I admit I'm a UK customer) is that the Age of Sigmar books have an odd pattern of putting the same short stories into multiple collected editions. An annoying thing when you've got several stories that might appear in 3 or more collected edition books. 

 

 

[Austin]

7 minutes ago, Overread said:

GW's general translation of prices into other currencies is, like many companies, a matter of mythical elements to most people. Few companies use a straight conversion on price, which is why when you deal with higher priced goods, like camera lenses, you get grey importers. Perfectly legal, but people who buy in one territory and ship and sell in another.

The reasons for variation in price can be varied and hard to pin down. Sometimes unforseen postage and shipping costs actually inflate prices as might local variations in tax. The company itself might not be seeing any more profit even if the end product appears to be priced higher. In addition not every company has perfect distribution networks so distribution overseas might come through what might be an imperfect system that results in increased prices; however investment in local production or a better system might not be cost effective. 

 

BL does charge a premium I will agree there. Their books are typically more expensive than many regular market options.

 

That said the only real issue I have (and I admit I'm a UK customer) is that the Age of Sigmar books have an odd pattern of putting the same short stories into multiple collected editions. An annoying thing when you've got several stories that might appear in 3 or more collected edition books. 

 

 

Yeah all that makes sense to me. Where it bothers me here is that we are talking about digital products. And an increase in price that takes it even further outside what seems reasonable. 

[Overread]

True, however when it comes to ebooks there are varying patterns. Some companies compete by pricing their ebooks lower than physical products; others price them the same. It's also important to note that ebooks are legally a different product type to print books and thus come under different taxation laws in many countries. In the UK, for example, you pay a higher band of tax for each ebook sale than you do for a print book.

Plus many print books already have very low production cost - your trade paperback is very cheap to produce. 

Black Library keeps its books in print and digital the same or similar in price. Likely so that they are not competing with each other and that physical products remain a viable approach for them. The Digital is a convenience product rather than mandatory (excepting when physical books move out of print). The risk for them in pricing digital much lower is that sales shift to digital which makes print a less attractive product for them. 

[Austin]

2 minutes ago, Overread said:

True, however when it comes to ebooks there are varying patterns. Some companies compete by pricing their ebooks lower than physical products; others price them the same. It's also important to note that ebooks are legally a different product type to print books and thus come under different taxation laws in many countries. In the UK, for example, you pay a higher band of tax for each ebook sale than you do for a print book.

Plus many print books already have very low production cost - your trade paperback is very cheap to produce. 

Black Library keeps its books in print and digital the same or similar in price. Likely so that they are not competing with each other and that physical products remain a viable approach for them. The Digital is a convenience product rather than mandatory (excepting when physical books move out of print). The risk for them in pricing digital much lower is that sales shift to digital which makes print a less attractive product for them. 

I did not know that about the tax band. That could be it, though I don’t know why that would mean ebooks are cheaper (exchange rate wise) for people in the UK to buy vs the US  

You know what is funny, you can buy many books by BL cheaper in paperback than the ebook. Significantly so in the case of Horus Heresy novels. 

Those are good thoughts. You are helping me purge some anger- though it still seems like BL is pulling a fast one haha. 

[JPjr]

In regards to price of ebooks vs those on dead trees, one small oddity is that in the UK there is no VAT on printed books but there is on digital equivalents.

that could possibly, somehow, explain some discrepancy between UK &, I’m guessing, US prices too, as I’m guessing all books are subject to sales tax over there.

[Austin]

@JPjr @Overread

So for both of you do you just sort of chalk up the pricing as just something to hold your nose and get over? I used to do that but (as you can tell) it has gotten harder..

[Overread]

The thing is all the prices on the BL website are on the high side if you compare them to big selling franchise books from regular authors. So I accept that I'm paying a premium and go with it. In general I see BL as an extra wing for GW and not their core business. So I can't see much room to push and push for them to lower prices on their product when chances are they'd rather downsize than shift the price brackets. 

 

Also price complaints only work on a mass scale - you've got to convince a large portion of the actual buying market to protest at the same time and then make sure that the protest is sensible (ergo it doesn't end up asking for books to be $1 each); or too hostile (heck last year we had people writing death threats to the authors who were writing the new younger generation novels for BL - even if its only one or two people that's really wrong). 

Basically prices might lower if the market stops buying, but at the same time unless that's clearly communicated to GW then they might think that the market doesn't want it; that the market doesn't warrant it; that the content is wrong; that the marketing is wrong etc... 

[Icegoat]

What I don't bt understand is why they don't just release there books in paperback straight away I've never bought a hardback and I never will. Same exact product twice the price. There ebooks are a large con and I prefer the real books. 

[Overread]

And yet others really like hardbacks and would prefer them for their increased size and durability. At the same time ebooks are fantastic in general - esp for those on limited space or who travel a lot. Reading ebooks on something like a Kindle Ereader (and not a tablet) is pretty much the same as reading on real paper (and the bonus is that it doesn't weigh much - some really thick books can get heavy on the arms and fingers after a while) 

[JPjr]

@CaladancidI’ll be honest it’s a tricky one. As a consumer I sometimes look at BL prices (& indeed GW prices in general) and feel like I’m getting bilked.

But there’s the other part of me that works in vaguely related industries and actually respects BL not engaging in a race to the bottom (price wise) and not discounting the ****** out of everything.

Back in 2003 or thereabouts I was often getting anything from 50p to £1 a word for writing articles, 10 years of free online content later and I was being offered 10p a word for features for a pretty well known magazine, at which point I decided I’d had enough.

Likewise in music, budgets have been decimated the past few years. I was earning a lot more and doing less even 5/6 years ago. Again as a consumer I love things like Spotify but it has hollowed out my industry, I wish we’d had the balls/foresight to not drive ourselves into the ground.

So when I find myself feeling a bit narked at a particular BL price point I stop, think and then if I really want it, just buy it,  hope a decent amount is going to the writers and enjoy it without thinking any more about it.

- - - - -

Actually small thing that just occurred to me, I’ve never looked into it but I wonder how it works with BL’s authors, in terms of rights and all that business. I wonder if they’re on a work for hire gig like, for example, Marvel comics writers or their books all count as essentially creator owned works. Now I think about it it’s probably the former, but I’d be interested to know. 

[Austin]

12 minutes ago, JPjr said:

@CaladancidI’ll be honest it’s a tricky one. As a consumer I sometimes look at BL prices (& indeed GW prices in general) and feel like I’m getting bilked.

But there’s the other part of me that works in vaguely related industries and actually respects BL not engaging in a race to the bottom (price wise) and not discounting the ****** out of everything.

Back in 2003 or thereabouts I was often getting anything from 50p to £1 a word for writing articles, 10 years of free online content later and I was being offered 10p a word for features for a pretty well known magazine, at which point I decided I’d had enough.

Likewise in music, budgets have been decimated the past few years. I was earning a lot more and doing less even 5/6 years ago. Again as a consumer I love things like Spotify but it has hollowed out my industry, I wish we’d had the balls/foresight to not drive ourselves into the ground.

So when I find myself feeling a bit narked at a particular BL price point I stop, think and then if I really want it, just buy it,  hope a decent amount is going to the writers and enjoy it without thinking any more about it.

- - - - -

Actually small thing that just occurred to me, I’ve never looked into it but I wonder how it works with BL’s authors, in terms of rights and all that business. I wonder if they’re on a work for hire gig like, for example, Marvel comics writers or their books all count as essentially creator owned works. Now I think about it it’s probably the former, but I’d be interested to know. 

I wish I had more than one like for this post. Thanks for the thoughts.

I think I read one of the authors saying it was work for hire, but I can't remember where I saw that.

[Overread]

@JPjr you raise a really good point, especially because often as not you see the content creators getting paid less and less as the market demands less and less costs, but the people in the middle still want their cut and often as not still walk away with a lions share. Another aspect is that loads of people hear about how super-rich big companies are, but often have little real understanding that many of those insane "profits" get eaten up in things like distribution costs. 

It's also really hard to gage how big or popular something is. Most companies don't publish their raw sales data, and even when some data is published few find out about it (honestly GW is about the only company I know some finance details of and that's because it gets posted up around the net on teh fan sites - very few other fan sites bother with that and few companies make it as accessible). 

So sometimes people can sit there thinking that something is selling like crazy, when in fact its only just ticking over or might even be a loss-leader product. 

 

 

I must agree that I've seen the same drive for lower and lower prices in computer games; there is a die hard core of people who seem to believe that computer games are profitable at Steam sale prices at rock bottom levels. Granted they are fewer (one has to believe that otherwise big games would be gone); but they are still there and there's certainly a generational aspect going on (esp with digital goods and the perception in value of them being significantly lower than physical). 

 

 

[Kirjava13]

I think if GW books were just... well... better, it would be less of a kick in the teeth for them to charge premium prices. Fine literature they are not. I am increasingly more willing to pay more to ensure the creators get an appropriate wage for their work, but if that work were something I didn't have to make excuses for it would be easier to stomach. Having listened to Dark Imperium on an Audible credit, I would have been cross with myself if I had paid money for it.

[Austin]

Setting aside issues of comparative pricing, I've never had an issue with the overall quality of BL books.  Sure sometimes you find a bad one but most are pretty solid.

[JReynolds]

2 hours ago, JPjr said:

Actually small thing that just occurred to me, I’ve never looked into it but I wonder how it works with BL’s authors, in terms of rights and all that business. I wonder if they’re on a work for hire gig like, for example, Marvel comics writers or their books all count as essentially creator owned works. Now I think about it it’s probably the former, but I’d be interested to know. 

It's work-for-hire, but with a good advance and decent royalties. Better than many work-for-hire gigs, in my experience. 

[AGPO]

5 hours ago, Icegoat said:

What I don't bt understand is why they don't just release there books in paperback straight away I've never bought a hardback and I never will. Same exact product twice the price. There ebooks are a large con and I prefer the real books. 

Because different consumers have different tastes. As a frequent traveller I love ebooks because they mean I can take several books with me at any one time without having to carry them or fit them into my budget flight's luggage allowance. I can also sit and read on my rablet at the back of a really boring lecture without drawing attention.

Likewise there's plenty of people out there who really like nice editions of books, in the same way there are people who will buy forge world upgrade kits or spend hundreds of euros on le creuset cookware when you can get something that'll do the same job at ten percent of the price. If as a company you can get people to shell out a premium for something a little fancier, why wouldn't you?

[Austin]

20 hours ago, Overread said:

@JPjr you raise a really good point, especially because often as not you see the content creators getting paid less and less as the market demands less and less costs, but the people in the middle still want their cut and often as not still walk away with a lions share. Another aspect is that loads of people hear about how super-rich big companies are, but often have little real understanding that many of those insane "profits" get eaten up in things like distribution costs. 

It's also really hard to gage how big or popular something is. Most companies don't publish their raw sales data, and even when some data is published few find out about it (honestly GW is about the only company I know some finance details of and that's because it gets posted up around the net on teh fan sites - very few other fan sites bother with that and few companies make it as accessible). 

So sometimes people can sit there thinking that something is selling like crazy, when in fact its only just ticking over or might even be a loss-leader product. 

 

 

I must agree that I've seen the same drive for lower and lower prices in computer games; there is a die hard core of people who seem to believe that computer games are profitable at Steam sale prices at rock bottom levels. Granted they are fewer (one has to believe that otherwise big games would be gone); but they are still there and there's certainly a generational aspect going on (esp with digital goods and the perception in value of them being significantly lower than physical). 

 

 

I know you didn't say this but just to make clear, I don't think that BL should be required to charge some crazy low price for eBooks- I would just like them to be more reasonable and feel less like they are pushing the envelope as far as possible.