Disheartened about the current stance on Elves

[Thiagoma]

To give this a little context:

     I started playing AoS a couple of years back with a Clan Pestilens SC. I didnt know much about the game and i always been more of a painter than a collector. When the hollydays came, my wife gifted me a Spire of Dawn set. By that time i had almost finished payinting my SC (it took a while, i am a really slow painter), and the new rat boys gave me joy, but that was when i realized the Skaven were thorn all over the place and i couldnt really group my guys into an army. That was an ice cold bucket for me, and made me quit for a while.

     Months later, i decided to paint something and got to those High Elf guys, and behold! there was a battlaion that would let me group then up! So i decided to go for a SwiftHawk army, since now i could use the Eldritch council budies and allies! A phoenix, a Dragon! The Sky was the limit! So i did what most players do : Bought a full collection of High Elf units. Really, i got almost 6k points of High Elf....

    Then came the GHB and took my battalion away. The community around me is pretty small, and gather up in events to play, and the rule is simple : It is valid if on the GHB.

   I got Screwed, and kept thinking "Ok, what can i do?" Order Armies need Order Battlelines and none of the current models fit the bill other than Reavers, that i really dislike. Phoenix Temple and Order Draconis are kinda competitive but lack variety (specially with the new ally restriction).

 

    But to get to my point: When i got Spire of Dawn, i was expecting to be able to field my toy soldiers in a reasonable way, and years later those High Elf models havent event got repacked in round bases, are almost never mentioned in the lore (Hell, GW made an article Dragons of the Realm and didnt mention Order DRACONIS) and are still separated in a way that i have no idea of how will gw put then togheter. Absolute silence even in the rumors department.

   But what are you talking about, you might ask! We got DoK and Idoneth! 2 Elvish armies! Well... Idoneth are their own thing. They barely ressemble Elves and got a completly new design. DoK are cool, and i bought then but i am not really passionated about then.

 

   The lore mentions Tyrion and Malerion Elves and they also apears to be their own thing. With some luck High Elves will be added to Tyrion s faction, and Dark Elves to Maleryon s but who knows?

 

    Wanderers are playable but lack big units. Really hope they get some love. A DoK release would make those guys shine!

 

   Well that was it. If you had the time to read, i would love to hear your toughts.

 

 

[Bufkin]

Battleline has always been an issue if you want to use only classic high elfs. We lost spearmen (and unplayable silver helms) when we lost all the non GH units, but that was it.

If you really really really want to use just elfs (and not go draconis or phoenix) then there are only three solutions. Decide that glade guards are atleast elfs and use thoose, play reavers or....

use old HE as other models.  

I, for example, have 20 old metal archers, Ive used these as 2 units of 10 Freeguild Archers.  

As long as there are no risk that they can be mistaken for something else, there should be no problems but if you go to a tournament check with the TO before.  

[Tiger]

1 hour ago, Thiagoma said:

Well that was it. If you had the time to read, i would love to hear your toughts.

There's not much to tell. I'm waiting for Tyrion and Teclis elves, I hope I'll find them interesting. I was excited about the deepkin when they were announced but the miniatures and lore just didn't strike any particular cord, same for Morathi's marauding elves and Sylvaneth's trees.   

If the rumors are true I might get the Skaven for my next project as who knows when the army I'm interested will get a release.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Tiger

[Azamar]

If you use your spearmen and archers as “counts as” dreadspears and glade guard you can still put together a serviceable army. You’ll only have the order allegiance (although the artefacts are decent) and synergy will be a bit all over the place, but with a bit of thought in army selection and deployment it can work. 

I doubt it would hold up in an ultra competitive environment, but if it’s for local club/flgs play you should get by just fine- my mixed aelf army does ok 

[CaptainSoup]

This story sounds like another case of betting on the wrong horse army, a story that's been told since the day AoS started pushing out battletomes. It really sucks to invest so much on an old fantasy army only to never get proper support for them in the new system. If it's any consolation, you are definitely not the only one who has been put in this scenario and your only hope is to either count-as as @Azamar said and stitch together something or hope GW creates a new battletome that sweeps your models up like LoN or the new Grots book. 

I wish you luck, friend. 

[Thiagoma]

First i would like to thank you for taking the time to read.

Also thank you for trying to help me out on forging an army using the minis i got, even tho that wasnt my intention.

I have a lot of glade guard, reavers and even some spearmen but it all still feel wonky and bloated of stuff i wont really use. When battlelines became a "tax".

 

My intention was really just vent and see if others are on the same boat/having the same felings as i am (so i wont suffer alone lol), and how do you think GW is gona handle the factions in the future.

 

My guess:

Wanderers are gona get 2/3 kits and a book. Maybe a brand new hero on foot too.

"Dark" Elves: According to the folks on another thread, the BL book Brazen Claw  talks about Uglu Elves and Mistweavers. I belive Malerion portion of the Elves is gona "adopt" the remaining miniatures.

"High" Elves: Same but with Tyrion Elves. What i wonder is rules about Battlelines. Wonder if we are ever going to have Phoenix Guard, Dragon Blades and Swordmasters as BL on a "Light Elves" army or if they are gona roll a new "battleline" unit for this Aelvish aliance.

 

What still bothers me tho is the huge amount of plastics into all this factions not beeing used on any major army... and the fact that we are still on square bases while wanderers were moved to rounds, just as Dispossesed for example.

 

[Ironbreaker]

7 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

What still bothers me tho is the huge amount of plastics into all this factions not beeing used on any major army... and the fact that we are still on square bases while wanderers were moved to rounds, just as Dispossesed for example.

 

yeah, not being updated to rounds is concerning. Freeguild are not on rounds yet and they are more or less confirmed to be a viable faction for future updates. I'd say that maybe GW is not quite ready for a rebrand. The moonclan grots were reboxed twice. First was for AoS transition and later was with the new Gloomspite release. They could be trying to prevent a double reboxing. 

[CaptainSoup]

4 hours ago, Thiagoma said:

What still bothers me tho is the huge amount of plastics into all this factions not beeing used on any major army... and the fact that we are still on square bases while wanderers were moved to rounds, just as Dispossesed for example.

 

4 hours ago, Ironbreaker said:

yeah, not being updated to rounds is concerning. Freeguild are not on rounds yet and they are more or less confirmed to be a viable faction for future updates. I'd say that maybe GW is not quite ready for a rebrand. The moonclan grots were reboxed twice. First was for AoS transition and later was with the new Gloomspite release. They could be trying to prevent a double reboxing. 

I'm not sure but I would guess its just a matter of re-boxing those said unit boxes. It is somewhat strange that they haven't re-boxed/made more of these models yet to provide them with round bases, but on the other hand they only until last year re-boxed the Gutbusters and there is no updates in sight for them yet so who knows.

[Gotrek]

*gazes longingly at his 2 necrosphinxes, and 90 bretonnian knights scattered amongst the detritus of other models with no rules or points*

No idea what you're talking about. 

 

In all seriousness though it does suck and I would definitely ask your local players about using your models as "counts as", but with slannesh coming out, this is the logical year to see the rest of the aelves show up.

[HollowHills]

This is why I wish GW would just remove some of these old armies and squat them. If they are unlikely to be supported going forward then it's a bit of a trap to sell them as if they were a valid choice for a new player. 

Thing is AoS doesn't want to be generic fantasy. It's willing to have elves and dwarves but only in it's own way. The truth is a lot of those old high elven units have zero future while the best you can hope for with the rest is a soup book. 

Ultimately, high elves as they were don't belong in AoS. If you want to play them then you have to make do with being a second class citizen, the same way dispossessed players will get less love and attention than KO and FS. Right now Idoneth and DoK are the future of aelves in Aos. 

I wouldn't expect Tyrion and Malerion aelves soon and when they do arrive I really doubt they will include years old WHFB kits. They probably won't even look like aelves. 

The best advice to anyone choosing an army in Aos is to pick one with a recent battletome. It's not like we're short on factions these days. 

[InSaint]

GW don't even have elves anymore, it is the Age of Copyright so we have Aelves.  🤣

I do get the frustration, 20 years of rich lore on WHFB just got flushed down the toilet. WHFB is a fairly expensive hobby and having entire armies becoming obsolete overnight is rage inducing.  GW will unlikely ever announce an end-of-life on the old WHFB until they are sure majority of their players have bought into one of the new battletome armies.

This is a standard product exit strategy to manage their customers.

My advise is to pick up one of the newer armies. I am fairly certain the "light aelves" and "dark aelves" will not look remotely near your standard elves which is pretty exciting if you think about it?

[Furuzzolo]

I feel you! I started my journey with SC pestilence, felt the battlefield weakness and transitioned to a "newer army" in Kharadron Overlord....yes, at least i can legally play them but i let you imagine.

Transitioned to Dispossessed after my discovered love for Dwarfs. 

Now i sit on a 6k points of tournament ultracompetitive duardins...and i only like to play, not really into painting (i do it but its only sex, not love).

[Gotrek]

2 hours ago, HollowHills said:

I wouldn't expect Tyrion and Malerion aelves soon and when they do arrive I really doubt they will include years old WHFB kits. They probably won't even look like aelves. 

 

Say what? Daughters, maggotkin, legions of nagash, nighthaunt (hexwraiths and spirit hosts), all use kits that are old. I'll lay $20 down that when we get the light aelves the Phoenixes will be in there. I dont think GW has recouped the cost on the moulds and design for them yet. The Phoenix guard might be replaced (like the dwarf slayers were). Same for the skycutter. They were released in 2013 so they are pretty new.

[michu]

I don't believe that GW will or even should retire WFB elves. They are quite good sculpts and not that old. Gitmob and Greenskinz were much older and let's be honest - Gitmob wolves were terrible sculpts (at least in comparison to almost everything else except zombies which ironically are still here). Most of WFB elven factions needs one or two new miniatures (or consolidation which is easier and maybe better) to be relevant again.

[Bufkin]

Aelves and Slanessh should go hand in hand. Writing a slaneesh book without at the same expanding the lore on the Aelves seems unlikely and then it would also makes sense to have a release.  

I would not be supprised if we actually get new Aelves in 2019. Gooboz+Flesh eaters+Skaven+Slannesh are only four armys (and none, beside gobboz ofc, are actually confirmed)  and I would not be surprised if we get 6-7 armies in total for 2019.  

[Skreech Verminking]

3 hours ago, HollowHills said:

This is why I wish GW would just remove some of these old armies and squat them. If they are unlikely to be supported going forward then it's a bit of a trap to sell them as if they were a valid choice for a new player. 

Well I’m mostly against this, since it would mean that  players who are very faithful to their collectiom, or even beginners who just started with the armie, would literally loose everything and probably never try the game out again.

It would be a gamble for Gw, if they brutally discontinued an army from one day to the other.

edit: also never give up your hopes, my rattail is twitching again, probably an Omen,  something for the Aelves might be coming soon. (Although It may just be a reaction to the possible upcoming skaven release)

Edited January 15, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Skreech Verminking]

12 minutes ago, Bufkin said:

I would not be supprised if we actually get new Aelves in 2019. Gooboz+Flesh eaters+Skaven+Slannesh are only four armys (and none, beside gobboz ofc, are actually confirmed)  and I would not be surprised if we get 6-7 armies in total for 2019.  

Highly possible, if you look at las years aos releases. (Boc, Dok, Fish-things, Stormcast (((((((again))))))), Lon, Nurgle(?), Nighthaunt)

[HollowHills]

1 hour ago, Gotrek said:

Say what? Daughters, maggotkin, legions of nagash, nighthaunt (hexwraiths and spirit hosts), all use kits that are old. I'll lay $20 down that when we get the light aelves the Phoenixes will be in there. I dont think GW has recouped the cost on the moulds and design for them yet. The Phoenix guard might be replaced (like the dwarf slayers were). Same for the skycutter. They were released in 2013 so they are pretty new.

Actually good point about the phoenix. I think that's possible too. Just wouldn't expect to see anything with the actual elf models, so stuff stuff like dragon prince's, white lions, shadow warriors etc. 

If there is one high elf faction that would make a good one to expand in Aos I would personally vote phoenix temple. 

[DantePQ]

We already got two Aelves factions in 2018 is their state really that bad, maybe they will include some newer kits in Malerion's and Teclis/Tyrion's Aelves but I doubt we will see any other Aelf factions - 4 is already a lot, also their possibility that they could bring Araloth somewhere in the future. 

[Duke of Gisoreux]

21 hours ago, Thiagoma said:

Then came the GHB and took my battalion away. The community around me is pretty small, and gather up in events to play, and the rule is simple : It is valid if on the GHB.

The GHB can't take a battalion away. It only updates points. The "Guardians of the Dawnspire" battalion had a pitched battle profile when it was released in the "Spire of Dawn" box and is still valid. Assuming that things that are not listed in the GHB are not valid would mean that all compendium units and all new units in new battletomes would also be invalid until they are listed in the next GHB. That's stupid. Everything that has a pitched battle profile is valid.

[Overread]

The problem Aelves have is that Order has a lot of factions in it which already have a battletome of some form - whilst groups like Destruction were significantly lacking. Aelves are on a lag-time in getting updated and also suffered from a lot of fracturing in general - 3 armies became near 20 which is a huge amount of issues. 

Personally GW also missed some tricks I feel - Scourge Privateers should have combined with Idoneth; Darklings with Daughters of Khaine; etc... I also hope that they might consider blending some Dark and Light and Wanderer groups together. They could form a fantastic bestial army by putting Serpentis, Draconis and Wanderers together. 

 

 

In the end we don't know what GW will do with them ,but with a lot of good plastic kits I don't think we will lose them entirely; but I think we will se combinations and updates. The new Dark and Light Aelf armies iwll also be interesting to see how they blend with the old armies. If they will be like Daughters and bolt onto armies or like Idoneth and their own thing. 

[kenshin620]

I swear I made this topic like a year ago (though it was about HE)! 😋

Well GW does what it wants to do. Assuming GHB isn't a kiss of death (made a topic about that as well!) Wanderers and Darklings are "safe".  And there are bits and pieces of "important" aelf dominant cities like the Phoencium (keep forgetting how to spell that). Plus At least Aelves have battletomes (either directly like DoK and ID or indirectly in the form of sylvaneth). Meanwhile Humans are still kind of stuck with SCE or non-order. Which is a bit weird.

 

And plus hey, Beasts of Chaos somehow came back. Always gotta keep hope! Unless you're classic O&G, they may be out.....

[HollowHills]

1 hour ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:

The GHB can't take a battalion away. It only updates points. The "Guardians of the Dawnspire" battalion had a pitched battle profile when it was released in the "Spire of Dawn" box and is still valid. Assuming that things that are not listed in the GHB are not valid would mean that all compendium units and all new units in new battletomes would also be invalid until they are listed in the next GHB. That's stupid. Everything that has a pitched battle profile is valid.

Wrong. No one allows old battalions that aren't listed in the most recent GHB, for instance some of the old khorne and stormcast battalions from their v1 tomes are no longer allowed despite having previously had matched play points. 

 

1 hour ago, Overread said:

Personally GW also missed some tricks I feel - Scourge Privateers should have combined with Idoneth

Except they look totally different. Just remove these old factions. Take them off the store and leave them with matched play points for another year, then kill points too. 

Part of what killed WHFB was people having attachments to armies and models they bought 20 years ago and wanting them to be balanced. Rather than actually buying new kits and following the development of the game. 

Ofc it sucks to just have an army be dumped, but the warning signs have been there since 2015. Four years later people have had time to get a new army. 

AoS is about deepkin, daughters, stormcast etc not high elves, dark elves and the empire. 

WHFB IS DEAD. 

[Duke of Gisoreux]

2 minutes ago, HollowHills said:

Wrong. No one allows old battalions that aren't listed in the most recent GHB, for instance some of the old khorne and stormcast battalions from their v1 tomes are no longer allowed despite having previously had matched play points. 

Wrong. That's not because they are no longer in the current GHB, but there was a new Battletome released for these factions. Not being listed in the GHB alone doesn't make things invalid.

[Overread]

6 minutes ago, HollowHills said:

 

Part of what killed WHFB was people having attachments to armies and models they bought 20 years ago and wanting them to be balanced. Rather than actually buying new kits and following the development of the game. 

Ofc it sucks to just have an army be dumped, but the warning signs have been there since 2015. Four years later people have had time to get a new army. 

AoS is about deepkin, daughters, stormcast etc not high elves, dark elves and the empire. 

WHFB IS DEAD. 

Except Daughters of Kaine is based on several "old world" kits  

Also I very much doubt your first line. In my experience wargamers readily update their armies with new models and updated sculpts. Many gamers are not running gen1 or 2 Space marines but brand new ones or newish ones. If GW improves a model scupt then people will buy them. Heck how many people are really running first generation things like the super old Dark Elf Cold One Riders? Very few I'd wager. 

 

I do agree that the designs of some older models are more static and less dynamic and showy; however GW can simply replace them. Why remove something like High Elf Archers and Spearmen when they will just replace them with another spear and bow using warriors models in the future. Far better to embrace the old and build forward than to simply dump and abandon - and GW has shown that dump and abandon isnot what they are doing now in general. 

Why throw away old fans, old army concepts and also many fans who were on the fence. Embrace them instead. Furthermore AoS has been around for years - Darkling Covens have too - as have several other forces. So you can't argue that they are old and defunct because they are the refreshed version of old forces - they are current and active and right there for sale now.