Tomb Kings Discussion

[Snakeb1te]

On 9/3/2019 at 8:39 PM, themortalgod said:

Given that other legends units have been re-written/modified before going into legends I wouldn't be surprised to see the same happen with TKs before being eternally stuck. (for better or worse)

At the very least Id expect to see TKoEC fixed and for Scarab Prince to be smacked with the nerf bat.

LOL and there I thought the Scarab Prince was the worst thing and a joke of a unit. Just realised it can get 5 Attacks at 2+/2+, with D6 MWs on any 4+ to hit.

But with a 9" to charge is it really going to be that reliable to land the charge against the particular hero you wish to snipe?

I do love the idea of the guy actually being scary, considering it is a dirty, traitorous little ****** who vomits scarabs on people. But not sure if it is worth taking away the artifact from Settra to do this.

[themortalgod]

16 minutes ago, Snakeb1te said:

LOL and there I thought the Scarab Prince was the worst thing and a joke of a unit. Just realised it can get 5 Attacks at 2+/2+, with D6 MWs on any 4+ to hit.

But with a 9" to charge is it really going to be that reliable to land the charge against the particular hero you wish to snipe?

I do love the idea of the guy actually being scary, considering it is a dirty, traitorous little ****** who vomits scarabs on people. But not sure if it is worth taking away the artifact from Settra to do this.

Yeah, I felt the same until Malign Sorcery, 80pts of garbage turned into 80pts of god.  

As you suggest though, the 9" charge is problematic and if you fail it leaves him in a super vulnerable position. That is why I almost never deep strike him. I just deploy him with my army as usual. Usually someplace in the middle behind a unit of infantry where he is pretty safe. This allows him to move up into the middle of the board where he has a massive threat range (12" + 2d6" in any direction). Your opponent then has two choices, either completely avoid that area with his monsters and heroes (big win for you) or step into that threat range and risk getting an expensive model deleted. (big win for you)

Personally, I feel that the addition of another mega threat for 80pts is far more valuable than any artifact you can give the TKoEC

 

[Snakeb1te]

1 hour ago, themortalgod said:

Yeah, I felt the same until Malign Sorcery, 80pts of garbage turned into 80pts of god.  

As you suggest though, the 9" charge is problematic and if you fail it leaves him in a super vulnerable position. That is why I almost never deep strike him. I just deploy him with my army as usual. Usually someplace in the middle behind a unit of infantry where he is pretty safe. This allows him to move up into the middle of the board where he has a massive threat range (12" + 2d6" in any direction). Your opponent then has two choices, either completely avoid that area with his monsters and heroes (big win for you) or step into that threat range and risk getting an expensive model deleted. (big win for you)

Personally, I feel that the addition of another mega threat for 80pts is far more valuable than any artifact you can give the TKoEC

 

Isn't Sword of Judgement usually banned? The item feels a little 'cheap', in that it is outrageously powerful with just a couple of modifiers.

[themortalgod]

9 minutes ago, Snakeb1te said:

Isn't Sword of Judgement usually banned? The item feels a little 'cheap', in that it is outrageously powerful with just a couple of modifiers.

I've never heard of it being banned anywhere. It is certainly powerful but in the great big scheme of ridiculously powerful combos in the game I don't feel it is nearly as outrageous as what some armies have access to. Statistically, it is roughly 9 mortal wounds when your prince is buffed by a 460pt hero. That isn't game breaking. 

Even if it was questionable in terms of balance, I wouldn't feel bad about using it in TKs given that the rest of the army is pretty neutered compared to modern armies. (lack of spell lore, allegiance abilities, artifacts, etc. Not to mention almost every unit in the army ranging from somewhat overpriced to obnoxiously overpriced)

Edited September 5, 2019 by themortalgod

[Snakeb1te]

Just now, themortalgod said:

I've never heard of it being banned anywhere. It is certainly powerful but in the great big scheme of ridiculously powerful combos in the game I don't feel it is nearly as outrageous as what some armies have access to.

Even if it was questionable in terms of balance, I wouldn't feel bad about using it in TKs given that the rest of the army is pretty neutered compared to modern armies. (lack of spell lore, allegiance abilities, artifacts, etc. Not to mention almost every unit in the army ranging from somewhat overpriced to obnoxiously overpriced)

I feel you. I'm planning to use the following:

Settra

Liche Priest

Herald

Chariots x3

Chariots x3

Chariots x3

Ushabti x9

Necropolis Knights x6

 

I think I have enough staying power with the herald to keep the Legions units alive. The Ushabti still hit surprisingly hard (around 21 wounds against a 4+ save with Settra buff). 

Oh and one more thing - technically Settra's Command ability nerfs command abilities to only be useable once.... but if he's not in the game and his warscroll isn't being used, I don't think his warscroll should be cancelling anybody else's in case, say, you want to bring along a Tomb King or Tomb Queen and stack it.

 

[themortalgod]

2 minutes ago, Snakeb1te said:

I feel you. I'm planning to use the following:

Settra

Liche Priest

Herald

Chariots x3

Chariots x3

Chariots x3

Ushabti x9

Necropolis Knights x6

 

I think I have enough staying power with the herald to keep the Legions units alive. The Ushabti still hit surprisingly hard (around 21 wounds against a 4+ save with Settra buff). 

Oh and one more thing - technically Settra's Command ability nerfs command abilities to only be useable once.... but if he's not in the game and his warscroll isn't being used, I don't think his warscroll should be cancelling anybody else's in case, say, you want to bring along a Tomb King or Tomb Queen and stack it.

 

Yeah, that is fairly similar to lists I run. Though I tend to either go heavy on Ushabti or Knights, usually not both. I prefer to spend the points on bigger units of chariots because I find 15 wounds is just too easy to obliterate in a single turn and deny me recovering them. The latest build I'm planning to run is:

TKoEC

Tomb Prince

Herald

Herald

Herald

9 Chariots

5 Horsemen

10 Skeletons

6 Knights.

Not sure how the herald spam will play out but I'm curious to see how it will work. Bringing back 4 Knights per turn could be crazy powerful.

The other list I run a lot is

TKoEC

Tomb Prince

Necrotect

6 Chariots

3 Chariots

5 Horsemen

6 Ushabti

6 Ushabti

6 Ushabti

3 Ushabti

That list does quite well. Most armies can't deal with all the Ushabti. I also have experimented with a 27 Ushabti list that doesn't bring a TKoEC. It has done ok as well. 

I never run Liche Priest anymore, they just don't bring much value. Statistically smiting doesn't actually increase output enough to be worth paying 120pts for. Especially when you consider that it likely will only be cast (and not unbound) about half of the time.

And you are correct. Settra only nerfs other command abilities if he is present on the field. Though, I feel that TKs now are too CP starved to really stack many command abilities anyway. 

[Snakeb1te]

2 minutes ago, themortalgod said:

Yeah, that is fairly similar to lists I run. Though I tend to either go heavy on Ushabti or Knights, usually not both. I prefer to spend the points on bigger units of chariots because I find 15 wounds is just too easy to obliterate in a single turn and deny me recovering them. The latest build I'm planning to run is:

TKoEC

Tomb Prince

Herald

Herald

Herald

9 Chariots

5 Horsemen

10 Skeletons

6 Knights.

Not sure how the herald spam will play out but I'm curious to see how it will work. Bringing back 4 Knights per turn could be crazy powerful.

The other list I run a lot is

TKoEC

Tomb Prince

Necrotect

6 Chariots

3 Chariots

5 Horsemen

6 Ushabti

6 Ushabti

6 Ushabti

3 Ushabti

That list does quite well. Most armies can't deal with all the Ushabti. I also have experimented with a 27 Ushabti list that doesn't bring a TKoEC. It has done ok as well. 

I never run Liche Priest anymore, they just don't bring much value. Statistically smiting doesn't actually increase output enough to be worth paying 120pts for. Especially when you consider that it likely will only be cast (and not unbound) about half of the time.

And you are correct. Settra only nerfs other command abilities if he is present on the field. Though, I feel that TKs now are too CP starved to really stack many command abilities anyway. 

I agree on the Ushabti math - I also did the math recently and figured out they're pretty good on their own.

I thought bringing along a Liche Priest would be useful as a form of unbinding, and technically an endless spell thrown in there too. You don't really need him for the Ushabti but if you have 6 Necropolis Knights that is when you get the real value. But are you sure in what you say? Remember that Necrovenom on 5+ is giving you a lot of MWs.

I would've liked to capture the feel of 'legions' and have lots of infantry, but I simple don't have any skeleton foot trips, and the old Tomb King ones looked pretty poor anyway (aside from the shields which are awesome).

Was always curious about a Khalida shooty list, but the buffs don't really seem to make them all that great.

[themortalgod]

16 minutes ago, Snakeb1te said:

I agree on the Ushabti math - I also did the math recently and figured out they're pretty good on their own.

I thought bringing along a Liche Priest would be useful as a form of unbinding, and technically an endless spell thrown in there too. You don't really need him for the Ushabti but if you have 6 Necropolis Knights that is when you get the real value. But are you sure in what you say? Remember that Necrovenom on 5+ is giving you a lot of MWs.

I would've liked to capture the feel of 'legions' and have lots of infantry, but I simple don't have any skeleton foot trips, and the old Tomb King ones looked pretty poor anyway (aside from the shields which are awesome).

Was always curious about a Khalida shooty list, but the buffs don't really seem to make them all that great.

I usually put master of the black arts on my TKoEC so if I need to unbind I have him.  The auto unbind is cool but I still do not find the Liche ever feels like he brings his value. Many armies pay 80pts for a similar level caster making him roughly 50% overpriced. 

6 Knights (480pts) + TKoEC (460pts) + Liche Priest (120pts) is 1,060pts to buff out a single mega unit. Yeah its powerful but it sets up a situation where your opponent just needs to feed your knights chaffe or blow the knights off the table and they are neutering your army. Stacking buffs on Knights makes for an impressive output value but it also makes for a very predictable and one dimensional army. 6 Knights buffed by the TKoEC does about 27 damage to a 5+ save target. If you add in smiting that number goes up to about 34. Most of the time that will just contribute to overkill. A unit of 3 TKoEC buffed Ushabti is always going to bring more additional real world output than smiting will ever provide at the same pts cost. Remember, each time you take a buff hero instead of more fighting units when a TKoEC is present you are lowering the value of his aura (because he is buffing less stuff) in order to bring in some other buff. 

I also would love to make a Khalida list work. It has potential but some matches will just be impossible imo. If she buffed catapults and bowshabti as well it would be more practical. The fact that you need to be "Tomb Kings" allegiance though really hurts the army since you lose deathless minions and command traits. (or you have to pay battleline tax in addition to your archers)
 

Edited September 5, 2019 by themortalgod

[Rahana]

So, since the Warscrolls are still dated do AoS1 and will most likely not get reword (poor Settra and other command abilities), does anyone know whether Screaming Skull Catapult really works as funky as it seems?

Screaming Ammunition wording states that "A unit that is attacked" - does this mean the unit is being declared as target, regardless if the hit lands? Or do I actually need to hit/inflict wounds?

Probably not pushing it into any competetive level of playing, but it might be nice funky surprise mechanic, especially with Necrotect nearby.

[Ankh94]

Hi,

I am new not only to this forum but also to age of sigmar itself. 

5-6 years ago I had my first contact with WFB, I was watching game of Tomb Kings and High Elves. Undead army simply charmed me, I absolutely fell in love with models of giant scorpion,  ushabti, bone giant etc.. Recently I quit playing online games which resulted in a lot of free time and I was hoping that I could get into wargaming. I have visited few forums and games workshop shop just to find out that Tomb Kings are no longer available to buy but they still are playable race. 

I am just looking for a way to create small army 500-750 points but I have no clue where to start. What units to choose, where to get them from and if even to begin collecting in case games workshop will ban this army? 

All help is greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

[Public Universal Duardin]

1 hour ago, Ankh94 said:

Hi,

I am new not only to this forum but also to age of sigmar itself. 

5-6 years ago I had my first contact with WFB, I was watching game of Tomb Kings and High Elves. Undead army simply charmed me, I absolutely fell in love with models of giant scorpion,  ushabti, bone giant etc.. Recently I quit playing online games which resulted in a lot of free time and I was hoping that I could get into wargaming. I have visited few forums and games workshop shop just to find out that Tomb Kings are no longer available to buy but they still are playable race. 

I am just looking for a way to create small army 500-750 points but I have no clue where to start. What units to choose, where to get them from and if even to begin collecting in case games workshop will ban this army? 

All help is greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

I greatly recommend against that, unless you feel like Tomb Kings is the only army you want to play with due to the fact that it's not supported by GW and might one day lose all official points values (which anyway aren't being updated to keep them in balance). Other WHFB armies that didn't make the cut to Age of Sigmar like Bretonnia encountered the same fate.

 

However, if you want to truly collect and paint Tomb Kings and the idea of winning doesn't matter to you, alongside you bring nonchalant to the idea of one day noticing they aren't "tournament legal", eBay is your friend. The warscrolls for Tomb Kings are available for free on GW's webpage here so only thing you need to get going is an army. Looking at the points, a single Tomb King on foot plus a couple horses, chariots and minimum number of skellies is 460 points. Not very competitive, but something you should be able to find on ebay with relative ease, even if I fear it'll cost more than getting into a supported army.

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Public Universal Duardin
Added a link, to help our new friend out

[Ankh94]

Thank you for such a quick response, after what you said I am seriously reconsidering picking up Tomb Kings, at least until they will come back in favour of almighty games workshop. Other army which I also like is ossiarch bonesreapers, is there any way that I could use models from tomb Kings in this army and still be allowed to play (I am thinking about scorpion and ushabti) ? 

[Public Universal Duardin]

45 minutes ago, Ankh94 said:

Thank you for such a quick response, after what you said I am seriously reconsidering picking up Tomb Kings, at least until they will come back in favour of almighty games workshop. Other army which I also like is ossiarch bonesreapers, is there any way that I could use models from tomb Kings in this army and still be allowed to play (I am thinking about scorpion and ushabti) ? 

Old World, the setting of WHFB, was announced by Games Workshop to be brought back in '2-3 years' (if not more!) so maybe Tomb Kings will see a return there? Of course, we don't know how that game will look and what will be included so it's all empty speculation and theory-mongering.

I've never played in any official tournament capacity, only very casually, so I cannot comment on that - but in my experience, in normal gaming etiquette proxies and counts as were ok as long as whoever you play against approve of it. But like I said, I don't know how strict tournaments are. In my logic as long as you have rebased them to be the correct base size of whatever model you pretend it to be, and as long your opponent knows which model represents which I don't see much issue myself but it's something I hope the more veteran players of this forum can weigh on.

[Ankh94]

Return of WFB huh? Definitely something to look forward to :). As for now I will just try to add bits from tomb kings race to bonesreapers.

I was trying to create post on market sub-forum but for some reason it wouldn't allow me to. Any clue why? 

 

[TheEccentric1851]

Of anytime to bring back Tomb Kings, now would be the best time. Think about it.

Let's say Settra somehow wakes up and sees Nagash trying to take control of the Mortal Realms in a similar way he tried to do to Nehekhara in the Old World and decides to grab some of souls and find a desert to base camp in. He summons any spirits he can to his army and then begins a campaign to both defeat and punish Nagash and conquer his own dominion in the realms.

They probably wouldn't be called Tomb Kings (Games Workshop wants that copyright) so maybe something like Hordes of Settra (of course a better title could be found, but I'll use this one here) could be made as a counter to Legions of Nagash, Nighthaunt and Ossiarch Bonereapers.

Hordes of Settra would be a Death army, but one which rivals death. It could be an interesting way to give the Soul Wars the one army that could truly counter Nagash. Settra can rival Nagash for Shyish and control over skeletal armies and manage to push him back enough for (whenever it does arrive and Destruction can have their turn as the big threat) 3rd edition to begin. 

I see Hordes of Settra being able to ally with Soulblight (some vampires may want to rebel against Nagash and gain some reward in the process) and Flesh-Eater Courts (As long as they get their regal banquet, they can side against Nagash). There could even be rules purposefully attacking units under Nagash's control like some attacks have against chaos or Stormcasts. 

I'd also say if Warhammer: The Old World will come out a great opportunity to make kits for Tomb Kings but containing both square and circle bases would be a great way to get an army in both games. Although it could be odd to have a release like that on the surface, having two books releasing covering the same army in two games.

[Kyriakin]

I said it elsewhere  on the forum, but OBR lacks Mummies, a desert theme and chariots - three TK staples.

There is still design space to fit in an army that has the above attributes, without significantly treading on OBR's toes in terms of theme and visuals.

Also, the game could use a desert-themed army, as there currently is none.

That's not to say GW will do this, but they could. If they did, I would assume it would be Khalida-led, rather than Settra.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Kyriakin

[JackStreicher]

It won‘t happen. GW can‘t copyright Egyptian Undead.

OBR is the closest to Tomb Kings we‘ll get in AoS. 

[Kyriakin]

On 5/2/2020 at 10:46 PM, JackStreicher said:

It won‘t happen. GW can‘t copyright Egyptian Undead.

OBR is the closest to Tomb Kings we‘ll get in AoS. 

They can copyright bedsheet ghosts and grim reaper-esque wraiths?

[JackStreicher]

42 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

They can copyright bedsheet ghosts and grim reaper-esque wraiths?

Apparently their models are different enough or good enough that they’re confident no one will copy them.

[Skreech Verminking]

18 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Apparently their models are different enough or good enough that they’re confident no one will copy them.

Considering that even the skaven have been copied in a certain degree by other companies, I actually don’t think there is much of a chance fo gw to consider their models save from being copied.

[JackStreicher]

9 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Considering that even the skaven have been copied in a certain degree by other companies, I actually don’t think there is much of a chance fo gw to consider their models save from being copied.

Imo they might think to be save with the Nighthaunt since no other company has the resources to produce such fragile, dynamic, detailed and yet sturdy Ghost-Like Models as the Nighthaunt.

If other companies tried to copy the NH they‘d definitely not look as good as GW‘s due to most companies using resin (the Model has to be overly thick in order to be somewhat sturdy) or PVA (wobbly and the detail is not as great as GW‘s plastic)

Edited May 4, 2020 by JackStreicher

[erasercrumbs]

On 5/2/2020 at 9:46 AM, JackStreicher said:

It won‘t happen. GW can‘t copyright Egyptian Undead.

OBR is the closest to Tomb Kings we‘ll get in AoS. 

Which is a shame, because OBR doesn't even come close to scratching that itch.

[Kyriakin]

On 5/27/2020 at 5:36 AM, erasercrumbs said:

Which is a shame, because OBR doesn't even come close to scratching that itch.

No Mummies

No Chariots

No Deserts

[Moar Barmu]

Why cannot they copyright Tomb Kings or something similar? They trademarked or copyrights Ogor when it is clearly a lame variant of Ogre. They could use Tomb King if they wanted to. Are they really not going to create official rules for Tomb Kings?

[Sception]

There are official rules for tomb kings, just not a supported model range to go with them.  There was a branding/trademarking push, but imo it's overstated among bitter fans.  GW could, if they wanted, absolutely put out a new and AoSmarized Tomb King army.  They just don't want to.  It isn't something the devs are interested in.

And, honestly, fair enough.  I mean, I'd like to see some version of TK back, but it's not like the undead in AoS have been left to gather dust like we were for most of 1e.  GW's chosen to go in another direction, but it's not like the direction they've chosen is a bad one.  At least we're going somewhere.

 

And there's always hope for the upcoming old world game, which is a better home for TK anyway, as non-Nagashii undead really don't fit in AoS's narrative.  TK probably won't be one of the first factions in that game, or even the first undead faction.  Rumors put the primary setting in the "Three Emperor's" period, which would make vamp counts pretty central as that's basically when the Von Carstein wars were happening iirc.  But GW knows people miss the Tomb Kings, so if the old world game is successful I expect it won't be too long of a wait for some mummy support.