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Darkoath wishlist


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Seeing how neat the new grots are has me excited. 

 

I think the biggest wishlist I would like to see is a reworking of the slaves allegience abilities. It tends to reward 1 god play, where I feel like one of the coolest ways to move is to reward multi-god play. Additionally, far too many StD buffs are various reroll 1's, which stacks very poorly with itself (Allegience, Shrine, chaos sorcerer spell and ability, warriors size bonus, 2 hand weapons) and doesn't really make for much play. You get the buff and you are done. But it got me thinking. What if the perk of StD was that they could get ALL the bonuses. Would it be overpowered if chaos warriors near 4 different heroes rerolled all the 1s? Given how mediocre chaos warriors are already, I don't think so, and it certainly is a lot of heroes to bunch up to get all the buffs. Also, frees up other designs for the spells and prayers, which is nice. 

Finally, summoning. I think limiting them to basic demons is the way to go. Keeps it different from the god-specific ones. 

 

Allegience  Ability

Units in a Darkoath army have dedicated themselves to the dark gods. Units with this allegience with the mark of chaos undivided may:

Reroll run and charge rolls of 1 if they are within 6 inches of any Slaanesh Mortal Heroes 

Reroll wound rolls of 1 if they are within 7 inches of a Nurgle Mortal Hero

Reroll hit rolls of 1 if they are within 8 inches of a Khorne Mortal Hero

Reroll save rolls of 1 if within if they are within 9 inches of a Tzeentch Mortal Hero

 

Alternatively, units of this army may dedicate themselves to a specific god. If they do so, they can no longer benefit from being near heros with a different mark (they may still benefit from being near lords with the same allegience)

Mark of Slaanesh: This unit may run and still charge

Mark of Nurgle: Whenever a unit with this mark is dealt a wound or mortal wound, roll a dice. On a 6+, that wound is negated

Mark of Khorne: During the turn in which this unit charges, you may add 1 to the attacks characteristics of 1 weapon of each model. 

Mark of Tzeentch: This unit may dispel spells as though it were a sorcerer. If it does so, it gets +1 to the roll for every 10 models in this unit.

 

Additionally, this army earns favor of the dark gods and can use it to summon reinforcements. Keep a tally of the total of how many wounds suffered and dealt during each player turn. For every 10 wounds dealt and/or suffered, gain 1 favor point. These may be spent to summon deamons. 

6/12/18 favor: 5/10/20 deamonettes

7/14/21 favor: 5/10/20 plaguebearers

8/16/24 favor: 5/10/20 bloodletters

9/18/21: 5/10/20 pink horrors

 

So to get the bigger summons you need to do (or take) 180 wounds. Should be possible but not too likely if you imagine 2x blocks of 30 warriors walking up the board and wacking things.

You could keep the deamonic ascention thing. Its fun and thematic, although it doesn't add much and takes up a ton of words. Its pretty seldom that the pretty-mediocre slaves heroes actually kill another hero engage a relevant opponent AND THEN win AND THEN can still actually meaningfully use it. Very very narrow. 

 

Points adjustments for sure, but I want the allegience to mean something! And I want a reason to take undivided folks. this may be a bit too strong, so a few things (like chaos warriors) might need a points increase (100 points like liberators maybe?)

 

Other changes

Chaos Sorcerer on foot/mount: -40 points. Not sure why he is so many points compared to all other 1c/1u casters.

Chaos Knights: give an additional-1 rend on both versions at all times. Charging lances increase rend to -2.

Chariots: May fall back and charge, whenever it charges, deals 1 MW to a single unit within 1'' at the end of its charge for each model in this unit. -1 Wound, -10 points. These are currently terrible and need some help. Now they are good at running down smaller targets quickly

Gorebeast Chariots: +1 Wound,  increase gorebeast attacks by 1, Triggers double attacks on a 6+ instead of an 8+. Still heavy hitters, getting into the thick of it. 

Marauders: Just give a standard +1 to hit if unit size is 20+. No need to be fancy with these guys. Some new models would be nice though. 

Chosen: +1 wound, +1 attack. +20 points. I want these guys to feel like chaos's answer to retibutors/evokators. Lets make them that!

 

Many units I think are already pretty reasonable, they just need some allegience abilities/spells etc. to make them more interesting. Chaos warriors, Marauder horsemen, warshrine for example would benefit a lot from just having an interesting allegience set-up and I don't really think need adjustments in points or stats really. Except that stupid thing where 2 weapons don't help khorne warriors, who would clearly favor more weapons over shields. Thats always bugged me.

 

Note that I'm not really in favor of decreasing the points across the board. I think I'd rather an interesting but more elite army than turning them into a horde. Not sure what I'd go with for spells, but I'll leave you all to think of it. 

 

What do you want to see done on the release?

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I like the amount of lore-thought put into these designs, but I have some notes. 

I don't like the idea of undivided armies being buffed by dedicated heroes, that seems strange. I think the only purpose marks or whatever should serve now is a keyword so the units are accessible to the other 4 God-dedicated armies. And because there are entire armies dedicated to each god, this army should specifically be undivided, not simply a mix of units dedicated to different gods. 

Everything should be generic chaos - chaos undivided. They should have access to all the daemons, but the difference here is that they will be without their god-oriented allegiance rules and will instead function under chaos undivided rules. This means the dedicated daemon units will end up with different roles to play in an undivided vs dedicated chaos army. 

I also would not want summoning to be based on wounds dealt because that's just too much to track. The idea of favor of the gods is perfect, but the mechanic needs to be more user-friendly. I'd honestly make 4 different ways to gain chaos favor, each one would be the way you gain favor from that particular deity. An idea could start from combing the 4 ways to gather points: blood tithe, fate points, contagion points, and depravity points. Add in the ability to gain a favor point by slaying a hero or monster with a chaos hero, synergizing with blood tithe and depravity points. All these points would be clumped together as favor of the gods and then you'd summon units with appropriately increased points values. It'd be more expensive to summon units, but the options to acquire the points and the units to spend those points on are more diverse, as would be typical of an undivided army. 

They should definitely have access to all the chaos daemons that are available, from lesser to greater. Again, the units themselves will be different because they'll be part of a different army and will have new and different uses. 

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Very interested and excited too see where they go with darkoath! I'm actually hoping they don't mix it with slaves to Darkness but could see them being joined ala gloomspite. Full release like idoneth would be great

The chieftain and war queen are just amazing models and the popularity of them is great seeing as they are very classic fantasy barbarians! Sometimes the oldies are the best!

I always had ano idea for a norsca army and then they turned it into a faction on TWW! Perfectly envisioned imo.

I think this could be the time for the return of the war mammoth ( in reality a giant realm beasty with aos flair for copyright reasons!)

units 

Warqueen

Different types of chieftains

Shamans

Broadsword minions

Spear/sling minions

Chaos troggoths/ogors/giant

War howdah beast.

War shrine 

Beast masters 

Mounted unit 

Tbh these are pretty standard ideas and GW has been quality lately with unique ideas.

Playstyle is tricky, how to make them unique? I like the thought of them not following the chaos gods properly but primatevly.  Rather than marks they could be "blessed" mid battle, maybe after wiping a unit out, they could erect a crude monolith to the dark.gods from.the bodies of the slain,led.by a shaman or 'architect' and this could bestow a gift from khorne! Given a buff to darkoath in that area of the table.

I don't know but they've been knocking it out the park with AoS releases recently and can't wait to see what they do with them, do.we.think.they are the next battletome?

 

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I highly doubt that Darkoath will be stand alone.

They would just end up being an army with one aesthetic and very limited choice of models, remember Kharadon? I feel GW will play it save and with Everchosen and Slaves to Darkness they have the perfect setup, fixing 3 armies with one book.

As OP shares this sentiment, I'm not sure if they will change the marks. I kinda want to keep them but in recent time GW made quite the effort to separate allegiances more and more. Either way, I could see the birth of another mark or general passive for this mashup. Mark of the Everchosen, pretty much the passive ability of Varanguard, so the units can decide each turn which god-keyword they have. Will be interesting to see what they'll be doing to the whole marking mechanic. I'd like it to remain the same, with some tweaking but I can see GW go into a totally different direction.

I feel like this army will have some kind of summoning for sure but with more limitations, like not being able to summon greater daemons except for some Archaon shenanigans/battalion.

Endless spells, allegiance tables (like one for less corrupted-> Marauder/Darkoath and one for more corrupted characters) and so on are a given and there are several battalions from Everchosen and StD that might return with a bit of fixing. Add a couple Marauder/Darkoath battalions and there would be a nice pool to choose from.

As a side note, Warqueens have been shown, in the lore (Malign Portens, Warqueen), to be often in command of not only naked-dudes-forces but rather a mix. With occasions of Chaos Warriors and the like pledging fealty.

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56 minutes ago, CDM said:

If you said this to me now then yes I think likely. A few months ago though with DoK and idoneth I would of said standalone

Yeah, I expected a stand-alone book at first as well but to be absolutely honest an integrated book would be for the best. Except DoK, these small-faction books had only questionable success. Look at KO or Idoneth, they came out and went directly away. DoK only holds their own because they had a nicely sized model range to begin with and sadly their sheer powerlevel keeps them around.

Considering actual wishlisting:

  • combine Darkoath, Slaves to Darkness and Everchosen into one book
  • add some additional Darkoath units
    • a light melee unit
    • a short to medium range unit (bows or javelins)
    • maybe as dual kit?
    • at least one additional character, a shaman or priest would be nice
  • retire StD Marauders of any kind to the legacy section
  • retire Chosen models and replace them with either Varanguard on foot or a new heavy infantry that has a similar look
  • make Varanguard matter
  • Chaos Mark system survives and there is fifth option, either generic Mark of Chaos or Mark of the Everchosen
  • Varanguard hero?
  • at least two tables of artifacts, spells etc. "low corruption" and "high corruption"
  • bring back reworked Everchosen battalions
  • add battalions that revolve around Darkoath, so people can focus their army more around them
  • revisit StD battalions (one for mounted army setup, one for infantry setup...)
  • summoning rules, but more limited in comparison to the god-specific armies --> no access to greater daemons
  • Endless spells and own lore, maybe some kind of shrine as terrain feature but the latter doesn't have to be forced own our throats imo
  • Add named characters except Archaon, even generic ones would be fine like they did with Vhordrai
  • rework warscrolls, so units actually have synergies with one another
  • I'd like if the models would keep their flexibility regarding keyword but there should be enough reason to play this allegiance instead of Khorne, Nurgle...
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I agree that it should be a big battletome (ala Legions of Nagash) that pulls Slaves, Everchosen, and Darkoath into a single cohesive faction. 

- Make Chaos Knights and Chaos Warriors formidable. Fluffwise they have always been a powerful unit that is meant to be expensive but a terrifying foe to face. In AoS right now they are mediocre anvils that offer very little offensive power. 

- Marauder models that aren't all "Conan", I'd LOVE to see a more winter themed Darkoath tribe that look more like Game of Thrones Wildlings than He-man.

- Do NOT make the army only undivided. I want it to still be possible to Mark units and for those units to still be field-able in their respective factions.

- Make Varanguard good. 

- Bring back the Hellcannon!

- New Be'lakor model and rules

- More chaotic monsters. Make the Slaughterbrute good.

- Be competitively viable to NOT bring Darkoath. I love the theme of an army of all armor clad chaos warriors. The army shouldn't require a horde of chaff to function.

- Allow them to bring in allies from ANY of the god specific factions

- Chaos Lord on Dragon. Nuff said. 

- Not have the words "wholly within" show up anywhere in the book. I'd rather a shorter range to an aura than having to deal with wholly within annoyance.

- A unit of armored Gorebeasts.

- The return of Chaos Ogres but making them more like giant Chaos Warriors clad in armor than big goofy oafs

- No rotating allegiance ability such as what BCR, Deepkin or Maggotkin have. Never been a fan. 

- Some sort of Chaos Temple terrain piece for the army. 

 

 

 

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So basically chaos warriors from whfb!? No thanks 😃

37 minutes ago, themortalgod said:

I agree that it should be a big battletome (ala Legions of Nagash) that pulls Slaves, Everchosen, and Darkoath into a single cohesive faction. 

- Make Chaos Knights and Chaos Warriors formidable. Fluffwise they have always been a powerful unit that is meant to be expensive but a terrifying foe to face. In AoS right now they are mediocre anvils that offer very little offensive power. 

- Marauder models that aren't all "Conan", I'd LOVE to see a more winter themed Darkoath tribe that look more like Game of Thrones Wildlings than He-man.

- Do NOT make the army only undivided. I want it to still be possible to Mark units and for those units to still be field-able in their respective factions.

- Make Varanguard good. 

- Bring back the Hellcannon!

- New Be'lakor model and rules

- More chaotic monsters. Make the Slaughterbrute good.

- Be competitively viable to NOT bring Darkoath. I love the theme of an army of all armor clad chaos warriors. The army shouldn't require a horde of chaff to function.

- Allow them to bring in allies from ANY of the god specific factions

- Chaos Lord on Dragon. Nuff said. 

- Not have the words "wholly within" show up anywhere in the book. I'd rather a shorter range to an aura than having to deal with wholly within annoyance.

- A unit of armored Gorebeasts.

- The return of Chaos Ogres but making them more like giant Chaos Warriors clad in armor than big goofy oafs

- No rotating allegiance ability such as what BCR, Deepkin or Maggotkin have. Never been a fan. 

- Some sort of Chaos Temple terrain piece for the army. 

 

 

 

I want to see new things in the mortal realms ( although feral gorebeasts is a great idea!)

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I just want new models!!!

I have a 1000 point Slaves to Darkness army, that I originally put together to buff my Khorne army (but I took Khorne up to 2000+ already). So, I would love enough new models to take my Slaves to Darkness to a full 2k with all new units! 

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7 hours ago, Wraith01 said:

I just want new models!!!

I have a 1000 point Slaves to Darkness army, that I originally put together to buff my Khorne army (but I took Khorne up to 2000+ already). So, I would love enough new models to take my Slaves to Darkness to a full 2k with all new units! 

amen to that 😃

I've got over 10k of khorne and I just can't stop adding to it!

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I don't know yet for the darkoath but I'd like that Evechosen and StD synergise more especialy with varanguards and archaon.

I 'd like also that darkoath

- replace all the old marauders (with CC/ranged/mounted options)

- have a nice mid sized mounted monster

- have a big piece of artillery-like unit (whatever it is, it has to shoot and to be ranged).

 

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Not really wishlisting but with the focus on the Darkoath warband, it seems like GW is giving away part of the game mechanics that are part of Darkoath.

Especially that kind of Snowball mechanism. To simplify, the more you kill or do something specific, the best you become. 

You could only do that to a certain extent with the Darkoath Warqueeb and chieftain, but it now seems to be part of their design. 

So I hope that Darkoath will be flexible In terms on how they snowball, to allow various tactical options !

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A fun Allegiance mechanic for dark oath would be picking an oath which gives a minor bonus and then getting an improved bonus when you complete your oath, similar to 40k tactical objectives ( slay a *, control an objective, be in your opponents deploy area etc)..

Possibly oath has a time frame in turns and can be failed and gain a penalty equal to the buff. 

 Minor bonus could be only against the target unit (reroll 1’s to wound etc) and become against all targets on success and become reroll unmodified 6’s to wound on failure

Possibly can make second oath once first is completed? Command traits to take 2 oaths, once per game artefact to change oath/ remove penalty for failing.

 

As far as taking marks work possibly could do similar to Nighthaunt, where specific units can be whitelisted to run under other chaos god allegiances.

 

mostly just hoping for new models, of mortal humans who are not mutated/blessed by the chaos gods.

 

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I'm interested to see if they can become marked like the slaves to darkness, and some slaves buffs. 

 

As @Jaze says I'd think thr dark oath will have a oath mechanic. Either they'll swear an oath you must complete to get a game long buff. Or make it like each turn you swear an oath and get a turn long bonus like reroll or +1 to hut. 

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Well, due there now being videos about pimping your chaos warriors and knights, I guess this might mean we won't get new models for those. :/

So all I really hope for are Chosen/Varanguard on foot. That way I can add a few awesome-looking warriors to my Tzeentch army and I would have every model I ever wanted. They should also make the Varanguard rules different so that god-specific forces can take them. 😇

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I could really see them setting up Darkoath similar to how Norsca is set up in TWW.  Lots of marauder/barbarian models, with various monsters and beasts. And with Everchosen/StD, I just really hope they're just rolled back into old Warriors of Chaos style army and just called Everchosen because that name is way cooler

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On a business point of view, GW need new things and need a big release with darkoath.

On a game point of view, Darkoath (as a kinda marauder replacement) doesn't need a big release. StD and Evechosen are already nice and big (maybe re release some things in pastic).

So, my heart is swinging between those 2 points: I'd love big but I'd love some more love to StD/EC. 

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On 1/24/2019 at 7:35 AM, GeneralZero said:

On a business point of view, GW need new things and need a big release with darkoath.

On a game point of view, Darkoath (as a kinda marauder replacement) doesn't need a big release. StD and Evechosen are already nice and big (maybe re release some things in pastic).

So, my heart is swinging between those 2 points: I'd love big but I'd love some more love to StD/EC. 

Std arent big, they desperately need a release of models. Currently Std has a small range half full of old finecast stuff and most of the rest are really old plastics.

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StD is bigger than several other factions that have already a battletome like the Ironjaws, the sylvaneth, the FEC...

I like several kits that don't need in my opinion refresh (charriot, manticore, shrine, warriors, knights...). If you add everchosen, it is even bigger.

I'm supposing that Marauder will be completely replaced by Darkoath because they are ugly.

I'm not expectig some recast in plastic for resin ones (chosen and heros?), but lets pray the (chaos) lord...

 

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1 hour ago, GeneralZero said:

StD is bigger than several other factions that have already a battletome like the Ironjaws, the sylvaneth, the FEC...

I like several kits that don't need in my opinion refresh (charriot, manticore, shrine, warriors, knights...). If you add everchosen, it is even bigger.

I'm supposing that Marauder will be completely replaced by Darkoath because they are ugly.

I'm not expectig some recast in plastic for resin ones (chosen and heros?), but lets pray the (chaos) lord...

 

All of the factions you list have more modern kits than StD.

Manticore is fine. Knights still look good. Chariots are good. Marauder Horsemen are still good. Shrine too.

Everything else needs to be redone. Warriors look coolish but they are the most static posed models currently in production and are also a very old kit. Imo they are painfully obviously designed to rank up on a 25mm square and are just as in need of a new kit as marauders.

So that puts StD at 5 units that are current(ish). 7 if you include Everchosen.

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I would like more pose-able warriors, otherwise the other plastics are fine. I just don't like the stiff poses the warriors have. We can bet on marauders being phased out by darkoath but we could definitely use more in the ways of spellcasting and heavy infantry, chosen are all we got for heavy infantry and those kits could do with a remake, as for our sorcerer he's good but he's pricier than his monogod cousins and doesn't have a spell list to choose from, same goes for the new shaman lady tho that entire warband seems meh and a bit too geared towards fighting stormcast. I would also like to see some more darkoath specific heroes and characters since right now most of our stuff can be used in mono god lists so it feels like we don't have any real unique hero choices outside of warchief and queen.

Edit: we do have Sayl but he's forgeworld so i hesitate to count him fully

Edited by Lucky Snake Eyes
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