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FPC

Variable Attack Characteristic

Question

If a unit has a variable attack characteristic like d3 or d6, do you roll once for the unit each fight phase and multiple by how many are in the unit, or do you roll for each model and total it up?  Thinking of units like Fanatics.  I've seen both ways referenced and/or done in battle reports.

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10 hours ago, Stroke said:

It's in the core rules under warscrolls; characteristics; random values

In fact to say the location in the Corerule PDF, Page 13, Random Values, Paragraph 3

Quote

...

Generate any random values for
a weapon (apart from Damage)
each time it is used by a model.
The result applies to that model’s
weapon for the rest of that phase.
When determining random damage
in step four of the attack sequence,
make a separate roll to generate the
value for each successful attack the
weapon makes.

 

 

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I believe it is roll 1 dice for each model in the unit and total it up. The reason is that in normal play you would typically roll for each individual model in the unit for attacks and each attack separately. Rolling for all d3 at once just makes it for speed play.

and more fair overall for both players since you will get a better average of attacks than a swingy chance of only 1 each or full amount.

 

and as an aside you roll for only each model in range to the attack not the entire unit.

Edited by King Taloren

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28 minutes ago, King Taloren said:

and as an aside you roll for only each model in range to the attack not the entire unit.

Well yea that's what I meant.  Do you have a reference in the rules anywhere to support the other point tho?  That's what I'm looking for.  Like I said I've seen both so clarity in the rules or an FAQ would be nice!

My thinking to the counterpoint is that the UNIT has an attacks characteristic.  More specifically, the WEAPON has an attack characteristic of d6 (for Fanatics) and I don't see anything that clarifies how this works.  But generally similar characteristics don't vary between models in a unit.

The reason I got to this question is that in 40k I believe this is clarified (with a general answer in the rules as well as special cases pertaining to certain units).

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10 minutes ago, FPC said:

Well yea that's what I meant.  Do you have a reference in the rules anywhere to support the other point tho?  That's what I'm looking for.  Like I said I've seen both so clarity in the rules or an FAQ would be nice!

My thinking to the counterpoint is that the UNIT has an attacks characteristic.  More specifically, the WEAPON has an attack characteristic of d6 (for Fanatics) and I don't see anything that clarifies how this works.  But generally similar characteristics don't vary between models in a unit.

The reason I got to this question is that in 40k I believe this is clarified (with a general answer in the rules as well as special cases pertaining to certain units).

It’s in the basic attack rules itself.   In the actual rules you choose a model from a unit and then check it’s range to make sure it can reach to attack that is why all the melee weapons have a range on them if the model cannot reach an enemy model it cannot make its attacks

 

40k has a very different rule for melee combat. All models in b2b plus the models within 1” of them plus within. 1” of those models. Sigmar is much more about actual distance vs ranks 

Edited by King Taloren

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Keep in mind also that in the core rules, each individual attack is handled separately -- it's only for convenience that you can roll all of your unit's swords at the same time, because they have identical to-hit/to-wound statlines. When you consider each attack separately (and, as @King Taloren points out, each individual model separately as well) it becomes more clear that you roll a D3/D6 for each instance rather than once for the unit.

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30 minutes ago, rokapoke said:

Keep in mind also that in the core rules, each individual attack is handled separately -- it's only for convenience that you can roll all of your unit's swords at the same time, because they have identical to-hit/to-wound statlines. When you consider each attack separately (and, as @King Taloren points out, each individual model separately as well) it becomes more clear that you roll a D3/D6 for each instance rather than once for the unit.

Fair enough. Still think it could use specific clarification but I’m convinced. Honestly it’s probably better that way.

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Some of the earlier AoS 1.0 battletomes and books have a 'Hints and Tips' page with a segment on random values (Pg 107 of the Beastclaw Raiders book, for example.)  which says you should 'Roll once and apply the result to all such weapons in the attack'.

However these are older books and I don't think this appears in the rules anywhere for AoS 2.0?   But it may help to explain why some people do it one way and some the other way!

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It's in the core rules under warscrolls; characteristics; random values

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1 hour ago, EMMachine said:

In fact to say the location in the Corerule PDF, Page 13, Random Values, Paragraph 3

 

 

Thanks!

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