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Malakree

AoS2 - Dankhold Troggoth Discussion

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4 minutes ago, Jupiter said:

After reading the warscrolls more carefully, it's clear that large units of both trolls are not so great. With bravery 5 and I didnt see any way to improve on that combining with the ruling on healing and even more for the ranged attack of the rock trolls that is per unit. It's a bit of a shame that it really doesn't give any true options to make a unit larger then 3.

  

You can get +2 bravery quit easily with Troggboss giving +1 normally and +2 with the correct trait in a 12" bubble around him

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2 minutes ago, Eevika said:

You can get +2 bravery quit easily with Troggboss giving +1 normally and +2 with the correct trait in a 12" bubble around him

Awesome, I misread that. Taught it only worked on the gobbos. Does it stack with multiple bosses? Still with LD 6 and perhaps 7  wholly within 18'' makes large units risky to flee.

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Just now, Jupiter said:

Awesome, I misread that. Taught it only worked on the gobbos. Does it stack with multiple bosses? Still with LD 6 and perhaps 7  wholly within 18'' makes large units risky to flee.

I dont believe it stacks. I'm going to just run a single Boss in my list becouse of that.

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1 minute ago, Jupiter said:

Awesome, I misread that. Taught it only worked on the gobbos. Does it stack with multiple bosses? Still with LD 6 and perhaps 7  wholly within 18'' makes large units risky to flee.

It's a unique ability so it doesn't stack.

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Jupiter said:

Awesome, I misread that. Taught it only worked on the gobbos. Does it stack with multiple bosses? Still with LD 6 and perhaps 7  wholly within 18'' makes large units risky to flee.

I'd say that units of 6 Fellwaters are fine, because the odds of you losing 2 in quick succession is low and the benefits you gain from having >3 are solid. The unit of 12 would be if you are power dropping them into the enemies face turn 1, that might be an occasion when the Troggherd is actually great because you can't increase to 15 and it makes that initial alpahstrike so painful. Especially when you consider that you will be getting the Battalion benefit from turn 1.

Quote

Leaders
Dankhold Troggboss (300)
- General
Skragrott (220)
Fungoid Cave Shaman (90)

Battleline
12 x Fellwater Troggoths (640)
3 x Rockgut Troggoths (160)
3 x Rockgut Troggoths (160)
3 x Rockgut Troggoths (160)

Endless Spells
Stupid Cauldron thingy.

Battalions
Troggherd (180)

Total ~1970/ 2000

Have fun dealing with that in your face....especially with some of the Moonclan Spells 

Edited by Malakree

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51 minutes ago, Malakree said:

I'd say that units of 6 Fellwaters are fine, because the odds of you losing 2 in quick succession is low and the benefits you gain from having >3 are solid. The unit of 12 would be if you are power dropping them into the enemies face turn 1, that might be an occasion when the Troggherd is actually great because you can't increase to 15 and it makes that initial alpahstrike so painful. Especially when you consider that you will be getting the Battalion benefit from turn 1.

Have fun dealing with that in your face....especially with some of the Moonclan Spells 

I was also thinking about Skragrott but is he actually good when you are not using him as a general. Seems like he loses a lot of his usefullness

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1 hour ago, Malakree said:

It's not spells I'm worried about, it's things like the Boingrot Bounders, DoK, Prayers, Evocators. There is a lot of MW which comes from none magic sources, especially in top tier tournament lists.

i dont think a 5+ fnp is gonna save those trolls from the like of witches and fully buffed up stabbas. 30 witches with catechism of murder, witch brew, mind razor and the withering will most likely butchers those poor little trolls regardless of what type. 

If we just go through a few examples of units that we will often see:

  • Witch elves with dual blades, next to a hero, witch brew, catechism of slaughter , mind razor and the withering; 4 attacks each 3s and 3s and rend 1 at damage 2. If 20 are within range to attack that 80 attacks. Thats 39.51 damage so 9 dead Rockguts... 44.44 damage vs fellwater which is 11 dead. So yeah you save 2 more trolls but they are still dead.
  • Gavespawn Bestigors with Wild Rampage and there Command Ability with the Herdstone in affect: 4 Attacks each 4+ 3+ rerollable rend 1. Probably about 15 in range this time. 60 attacks. 17.78 damage, 4 dead and the exact same statistics for fellwater.
  • Horde of Stabbas with Im Da Boss now Stab 'em Good, poison potions, level 2 Back stabbing mob, Puffshroom Frenzy, Sneaky Snuffler buff and under the moon. 3 attacks each at 4s 2s rerolling 1s to hit and wound, 6s do MWs, 20 in range again so 90 attacks. 22.69 damage which is 5 dead  and the same for fellwater.
  • Endless legions of Skeletons with Vanhels Dance Macabre, Blood Feast, next to hero and at full strength with spears. 120 attacks 4s and 4s twice. Im not working out the math for that haha but its likely theyre dead, or undead should i say mwuahahaha (we need undead trolls). There are other spells we can add in here to debuff the trolls further.

There a few more i could do like Grimghasts, Tzaangors, Brutes etc but you get the point. Meta crazy combo units that shred anything they touch but as you can see there your still dead regardless of type of troll you take haha 🤣 Where this gets interesting though is putting your trolls in units of stabbas. For Rockguts you get -1 to hit and only 1 rank being able to hit you at 1" range or -2 to hit for fellwater. And this is where i think troll lists need to head towards, having a buffer of stabbas or shootas to absorb charges. Suddenly those bounders your afraid of only affect the the chaff line infront. Evocators you can shut down with itchy nuisance or mesmorise and Morrsarr guard, well you will just to have to take that on the chin as you cant stop that. But even then 9 of them will do about 6 MWs so you might loose a troll but you can still heal a wounded one.

So for a seriously competitive troggoth army you are going to have to consider taking moonclan support either to help with magic (which is not just MW spells, debuffs to you and buffs to them are still going to ruin your day) or to add some meat (huehue trolls like meat) to your army by giving you numbers that you need to cap points and provide a -1 to hit buffer for combat that stops your (relatively speaking) not as tough trolls resist a horde of attacks stabbing them in the gibblets and killing them before they even get to regen.

Rockguts are better vs Maggotkin, other Destruction armies and some Order lists but i would take Fellwater in my troll lists as they have better synergy with the Troggherd and Moonclan units and i prefer there vomit attack to just d3 MWs vs infantry targets.    

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3 minutes ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

i dont think a 5+ fnp is gonna save those trolls from the like of witches and fully buffed up stabbas. 30 witches with catechism of murder, witch brew, mind razor and the withering will most likely butchers those poor little trolls regardless of what type. 

If we just go through a few examples of units that we will often see:

  • Witch elves with dual blades, next to a hero, witch brew, catechism of slaughter , mind razor and the withering; 4 attacks each 3s and 3s and rend 1 at damage 2. If 20 are within range to attack that 80 attacks. Thats 39.51 damage so 9 dead Rockguts... 44.44 damage vs fellwater which is 11 dead. So yeah you save 2 more trolls but they are still dead.
  • Gavespawn Bestigors with Wild Rampage and there Command Ability with the Herdstone in affect: 4 Attacks each 4+ 3+ rerollable rend 1. Probably about 15 in range this time. 60 attacks. 17.78 damage, 4 dead and the exact same statistics for fellwater.
  • Horde of Stabbas with Im Da Boss now Stab 'em Good, poison potions, level 2 Back stabbing mob, Puffshroom Frenzy, Sneaky Snuffler buff and under the moon. 3 attacks each at 4s 2s rerolling 1s to hit and wound, 6s do MWs, 20 in range again so 90 attacks. 22.69 damage which is 5 dead  and the same for fellwater.
  • Endless legions of Skeletons with Vanhels Dance Macabre, Blood Feast, next to hero and at full strength with spears. 120 attacks 4s and 4s twice. Im not working out the math for that haha but its likely theyre dead, or undead should i say mwuahahaha (we need undead trolls). There are other spells we can add in here to debuff the trolls further.

There a few more i could do like Grimghasts, Tzaangors, Brutes etc but you get the point. Meta crazy combo units that shred anything they touch but as you can see there your still dead regardless of type of troll you take haha 🤣 Where this gets interesting though is putting your trolls in units of stabbas. For Rockguts you get -1 to hit and only 1 rank being able to hit you at 1" range or -2 to hit for fellwater. And this is where i think troll lists need to head towards, having a buffer of stabbas or shootas to absorb charges. Suddenly those bounders your afraid of only affect the the chaff line infront. Evocators you can shut down with itchy nuisance or mesmorise and Morrsarr guard, well you will just to have to take that on the chin as you cant stop that. But even then 9 of them will do about 6 MWs so you might loose a troll but you can still heal a wounded one.

So for a seriously competitive troggoth army you are going to have to consider taking moonclan support either to help with magic (which is not just MW spells, debuffs to you and buffs to them are still going to ruin your day) or to add some meat (huehue trolls like meat) to your army by giving you numbers that you need to cap points and provide a -1 to hit buffer for combat that stops your (relatively speaking) not as tough trolls resist a horde of attacks stabbing them in the gibblets and killing them before they even get to regen.

Rockguts are better vs Maggotkin, other Destruction armies and some Order lists but i would take Fellwater in my troll lists as they have better synergy with the Troggherd and Moonclan units and i prefer there vomit attack to just d3 MWs vs infantry targets.    

I get your points and agree that the netters + fellwater combo is probably the most competitive troggoth army but to be honest I dont think anyone in this thread is actually trying to go for anything insane

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2 hours ago, Eevika said:

You can get +2 bravery quit easily with Troggboss giving +1 normally and +2 with the correct trait in a 12" bubble around him

A unit of 12 would have an additional +1 Bravery (as long as the unit has at least 10 models), but this wouldn't be a point to make a large unit.

After I have a preference to make units with similar size if I have multiple units, I don't know if I would make them larger than 6 models.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Eevika said:

I get your points and agree that the netters + fellwater combo is probably the most competitive troggoth army but to be honest I dont think anyone in this thread is actually trying to go for anything insane

I was replying in regards to a more competitive mindset for troll lists. However i would want people to go crazy with full trolls!! I just cant see Rockguts being better than Fellwater except vs against magic and being shot at. If you have 80pts spare take a madcap shaman not command points that Trolls dont really need.

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Just now, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

I was replying in regards to a more competitive mindset for troll lists. However i would want people to go crazy with full trolls!! I just cant see Rockguts being better than Fellwater except vs against magic and being shot at. If you have 80pts spare take a madcap shaman not command points that Trolls dont really need.

My plan for a slightly more competitive Full troggoth lost is currently looking something like this 

Dankhold Troggboss 300

Troggoth hag 380

Mollog 170

Madcap Shaman 80

-Gorks hand (currently thinking teleporting Hag would be goodnas she gets in to comit range)

6x Fellwater troggoths 320

6x Fellwater Troggoths 320

3x Fellwater troggoths 160

Troggherd 180

I have 90 points left over I'm thinking maybe running Morks Mushrooms for anti horde magic. 

How does this list sound what would you change?

 

 

 

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Personally I don't think Mollog is all that great; I know he essentially has 11 wounds and that his attacks deal mortal wounds, but on average it's something like 2 mortal wounds.

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3 minutes ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said:

Personally I don't think Mollog is all that great; I know he essentially has 11 wounds and that his attacks deal mortal wounds, but on average it's something like 2 mortal wounds.

Im thinking of him as an objective grabber with potential to large upside. He brings multiple bodies and a hero. For some battleplans you really want more than 2 heros

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Eevika said:

My plan for a slightly more competitive Full troggoth lost is currently looking something like this 

Dankhold Troggboss 300

Troggoth hag 380

Mollog 170

Madcap Shaman 80

-Gorks hand (currently thinking teleporting Hag would be goodnas she gets in to comit range)

6x Fellwater troggoths 320

6x Fellwater Troggoths 320

3x Fellwater troggoths 160

Troggherd 180

I have 90 points left over I'm thinking maybe running Morks Mushrooms for anti horde magic. 

How does this list sound what would you change?

 

 

 

I like it! In regards to what Knight just said i actually like Mollog. In those missions where only Heroes can score hes perfect for that and reasonably tough for his cost and size. I would probably take the either the Cauldron or the Moon, the Mushroom is good if abit random in threat range (can just imagine the shaman having a weak throwing arm and just drops it at his feet 6" away and murdering your guys in a massive MUSHROOM cloud) but the cauldron really helps your Hag get her own spell off and gives her some more choice on what to cast (itchy nuisance). 

Fellwater trolls are already quite good at taking out hordes, alot better than Rockguts for that matter. 12 Attacks 3s and 3s -1 damage 2 with reroll 1s to wound and 6s add +1 damage, they will pancake infantry and with itchy nuisance you will get to bully units!

😍😂 *sourbreathes still my favouite....*

total-war-warhammer-troll-vom.gif

Edited by Ekrund Oath Splitters
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Afternoon,

Cool thread (and one I might jump on later this year!!), but just a heads up I won't add it to the Discussion Hub just yet what with it being a subsidiary of the Gloomspite Gitz. We'll see how it goes though and if the overwhelming response is that you guys would all like it in there, that's no problem :) 

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Refined my 65% pure Troggoth list somewhat:

Troggboss

Hag

2x Fungoid Shaman

6x Fellwater

3x Rockgut

3x Rockgut

40x Stabbas

20x Stabbas

110 for Cauldron and Shackles

 

+Plenty o’ Vomit

+Fungoid CP farm

+It’s nice to see Trogg and wife take to the tabletop

+Board coverage with sneaky gitz

-30% Grots

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Hey guys!

With the release of the gloomspite gitz I decided to revamp my fellwater trolls and paint my giants. Heres a WIP shot of the gang, still got the details on the giants and fellwater fellows to go. Troll hag I just did some more plants on her base to make it look more swampy.

49548130_320183851930967_3287230920246951936_n.jpg.b2bf8d0ab4bde551bc3c1547b5212f8a.jpg

As for my list, my local GW does 1500pt tournaments and as soon as they drop the troggboss I'll be taking:

Troggboss - amberglaive, general, tough and leathery
troll hag  - gryph feather charm
3*3 fellwater troggoths 
1 giant 
Troggherd battalion 

Comes to 1500pts and is a 2 drop list.

The idea behind keeping the drops low and the purchase of the battalion is I want to have the choice between first and second. Since the army is relatively slow, I'm hoping to bait the enemy into positive early charges for myself.

The amberglaive gives the troggboss +1 to hit and an extra inch reach so he can potentially strike over the fellwater troggoths with his club. I decided not to give him the grygh feather charm, since he's not a monster and can benefit from lookout sir.

I've been running troggoths for ages with gitmob allies (since aos 1 haha) and always loved them, but been pretty much universally creamed. So looking forward to seeing how they go with the additional +1 to hit on their clubs and vomits. Might just be enough to net me 2 and 1 instead of 1 and 2 at the tournament :P (though not likely since I got rid of the useful bodies and replaced them with awesome sauce!)

 
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12 hours ago, Eevika said:

You can get +2 bravery quit easily with Troggboss giving +1 normally and +2 with the correct trait in a 12" bubble around him

Plus aren't loonshrine free? It gives you 12" Immunity bubble and that models is quite wide, like 8-10" at base I think.

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35 minutes ago, Morhgoz said:

Plus aren't loonshrine free? It gives you 12" Immunity bubble and that models is quite wide, like 8-10" at base I think.

Yeah, do we know how this is placed yet? Is it within your territory or...that makes a huge impact on how good various strats might be

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3 hours ago, Crispen said:

Hey guys!

With the release of the gloomspite gitz I decided to revamp my fellwater trolls and paint my giants. Heres a WIP shot of the gang, still got the details on the giants and fellwater fellows to go. Troll hag I just did some more plants on her base to make it look more swampy.

49548130_320183851930967_3287230920246951936_n.jpg.b2bf8d0ab4bde551bc3c1547b5212f8a.jpg

As for my list, my local GW does 1500pt tournaments and as soon as they drop the troggboss I'll be taking:

Troggboss - amberglaive, general, tough and leathery
troll hag  - gryph feather charm
3*3 fellwater troggoths 
1 giant 
Troggherd battalion 

Comes to 1500pts and is a 2 drop list.

The idea behind keeping the drops low and the purchase of the battalion is I want to have the choice between first and second. Since the army is relatively slow, I'm hoping to bait the enemy into positive early charges for myself.

The amberglaive gives the troggboss +1 to hit and an extra inch reach so he can potentially strike over the fellwater troggoths with his club. I decided not to give him the grygh feather charm, since he's not a monster and can benefit from lookout sir.

I've been running troggoths for ages with gitmob allies (since aos 1 haha) and always loved them, but been pretty much universally creamed. So looking forward to seeing how they go with the additional +1 to hit on their clubs and vomits. Might just be enough to net me 2 and 1 instead of 1 and 2 at the tournament :P (though not likely since I got rid of the useful bodies and replaced them with awesome sauce!)

 
I bow to your Trollness! Lol, great looking army!

 

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11 minutes ago, Scythian said:

 

Thanks man :), will post up finished picks when done and also any info on games I play!

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Speaking of troll armies, has anyone been using lotr trolls in aos? I haven't seen that done much. With troll armies back on the menu, I wonder if a few people will do that.

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I often envision troggoth armies with goblin hangers on, and have played hag, troggoth units, 60 gitmob grot shootas and a gitmob shaman, maybe snotlings.  Could still do that with allies but the moonclan grots with netters are hard to pass up plus the loonshrine and other tome synergies.  I have this in hand: 

Hag 380

Fellwater x 6 (in one or two units) - 320

Rockgut, 2 x 3 - 320

Bonegrinder - 360

And will get: 

Trogboss 300

Mollog 170

Total=1850,

Not enough left for the troggherd battalion but could sneak in a shaman and endless spell(s).  That said, I'd feel so exposed (and hungry) without some lil grot buddies around, I'll likely end up dropping Bonegrinder or Mollog to take a shootas or stabbas - feeling two units to go with each pair of frontline fellwaters and secondline boulder throwing rockguts, so probably drop Boneginder.  

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