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Malakree

AoS2 - Dankhold Troggoth Discussion

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32 minutes ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said:

Wow I didn't think Rockguts needed to be cheaper. Goodnight my sweet Fimir. When taken as an army, the Troggboss' cost now evened out considerably.

Rockguts at 140 is really mindboggling 

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Just now, Skoll said:

Rockguts at 140 is really mindboggling 

My Fimir aren't coming out anytime soon as they're the same cost now. Hey, at 140 I'd argue that Rockguts are competitively priced. I have to say this FAQ has been pretty huge, as as I said before, it doesn't matter that the Troggboss didn't come down to 240 or so as we got points reductions where it really matters which is the main fighting force. I can't argue with having 160 points freed up, most armies would give their second in command for such a discount.

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Just now, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said:

My Fimir aren't coming out anytime soon as they're the same cost now. Hey, at 140 I'd argue that Rockguts are competitively priced. I have to say this FAQ has been pretty huge, as as I said before, it doesn't matter that the Troggboss didn't come down to 240 or so as we got points reductions where it really matters which is the main fighting force. I can't argue with having 160 points freed up, most armies would give their second in command for such a discount.

Oh , dont get me wrong. I love it, im just trying to figure out how GW figures bullgors,dragon ogres and skin wolves are priced properly.

If they just brought rockguts and fellwater down in price, and they were already arguably the best monstrous infantry. 

 

 

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Trogherd is still stupid expensive though. Freeing up more points wont make me wanna take it over just bringing another unit of trogs

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Just now, Skoll said:

Oh , dont get me wrong. I love it, im just trying to figure out how GW figures bullgors,dragon ogres and skin wolves are priced properly.

If they just brought rockguts and fellwater down in price, and they were already arguably the best monstrous infantry. 

 

 

I'd argue that comparing units in a vacuum is unfair; they ought to be contrasted in-allegiance, of which those units are in a whole grand alliance apart. I'm fairly certain you can do more with all those units, while Trolls get like 2-3 areas of synergy at best.

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Just now, ShaneHobbes said:

Trogherd is still stupid expensive though. Freeing up more points wont make me wanna take it over just bringing another unit of trogs

I mainly take it for the extra relic as I find Moonface Mommet to be incredibly important to outright prevent most armor saves, since every Rockgut swing is extremely valuable, as your opponent can and will roll those hot 6s. Also, the reduced drop number can be big on its own to dictate the first turn. I forget the +1 damage 98% of the time.

I'm going to invest my extra points in goblins to fix the numbers problem.

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1 minute ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said:

I'd argue that comparing units in a vacuum is unfair; they ought to be contrasted in-allegiance, of which those units are in a whole grand alliance apart. I'm fairly certain you can do more with all those units, while Trolls get like 2-3 areas of synergy at best.

I actually picked those 3 specifically because they are horribly unsupported.

 

Skin wolves has the issue of being a Fw unit and 0 useful keywords,  having lost mortal ages ago. They have no lord to support or buff em either.

 

Minotaurs and bullgors , suffer from not only still being completely overshadowed by tzeentch in their own book. But lack of proper support, hell best way to play minotaurs is to try to play them in a BoK list while being taken as part of the brass slaughterers battalion, but BoK has better baked in options, and wont bother babysitting a couple of units of minotaurs for minor gains.

 

 

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Well I just love these points drops as an owner of like 18 rockguts! However I can’t believe our troggs went down yet the bullgors got totally overlooked? I also play a warherd centric Beastmen army though so I might be bias, but I can’t see a world where bullgors are 20 points more that the rockguts. Guess GW really values that movement 7 haha!

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53 minutes ago, Nubl0 said:

Well I just love these points drops as an owner of like 18 rockguts! However I can’t believe our troggs went down yet the bullgors got totally overlooked? I also play a warherd centric Beastmen army though so I might be bias, but I can’t see a world where bullgors are 20 points more that the rockguts. Guess GW really values that movement 7 haha!

I did say. I honestly didn't expect 20 off rockguts, I guess they really want to sell us that Crack.

Anyone wondering what TroggFilth now looks like, it's this.

Quote

Allegiance: Destruction

Leaders
Dankhold Troggboss (300)

Battleline
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (320)
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (320)
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (320)
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (320)
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (320)
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (320)

Total: 2270 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 156

 

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I reckon we're in a good spot now. I don't think it can be stated enough how much the change to Rockguts means. I don't understand why Fellwaters are more expensive, I find their only upside is the ability to be more independent which means they can cover my flanks better.

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3 minutes ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said:

I reckon we're in a good spot now. I don't think it can be stated enough how much the change to Rockguts means. I don't understand why Fellwaters are more expensive, I find their only upside is the ability to be more independent which means they can cover my flanks better.

TBH I didn't find Rockgut to be worse then Felwater when they where the same price, it felt like while felwater where more reliable in melee, they where very susceptible to range attacks and MW while Rockguts can whiffs in melee sometimes, them hitting harder and being more durable kind of offset it. and while the Felwater vomit attack do more damage, the Rockguts one is longer range and does MW. 

but yeah Rockgut at 140 is pretty bonkers now.

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8 minutes ago, novakai said:

TBH I didn't find Rockgut to be worse then Felwater when they where the same price, it felt like while felwater where more reliable in melee, they where very susceptible to range attacks and MW while Rockguts can whiffs in melee sometimes, them hitting harder and being more durable kind of offset it. and while the Felwater vomit attack do more damage, the Rockguts one is longer range and does MW. 

but yeah Rockgut at 140 is pretty bonkers now.

I always try and have Rockguts with reroll 1s (even easier now that it's also a basic command ability) and Moonface Mommet to guarantee it goes through. I had 4 Rockguts wipe 30 Longbeards in 2 combat phases with that combo.

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Anyone changed their mind about the Batallion as it’s still 180? I’m considering dropping now everything else is cheaper. 

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1 minute ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Anyone changed their mind about the Batallion as it’s still 180? I’m considering dropping now everything else is cheaper. 

I use it, and if you were like me and had 160 points shaved off then even more so.

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47 minutes ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said:

I reckon we're in a good spot now. I don't think it can be stated enough how much the change to Rockguts means. I don't understand why Fellwaters are more expensive, I find their only upside is the ability to be more independent which means they can cover my flanks better.

Mathematically in terms of raw damage output fellwaters are superior against anything which doesn't have a 3+ save or a 4+ with full rerolls. Even then they break even at that point and that's without their shooting attack.

You then have the fact they benefit twice as much as rockguts from the troggherd and don't suck was in 3s.

Basically if you're taking 3 troggs you spend the extra 10 points for fellwaters, 3 rockguts is garbage. If you're going to 6 then you take rockguts.

So your comparision is 150 for 3 fellwaters or 280 for 6 rockguts. It's two different roles.

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1 minute ago, Malakree said:

Mathematically in terms of raw damage output fellwaters are superior against anything which doesn't have a 3+ save or a 4+ with full rerolls. Even then they break even at that point and that's without their shooting attack.

You then have the fact they benefit twice as much as rockguts from the troggherd and don't suck was in 3s.

Basically if you're taking 3 troggs you spend the extra 10 points for fellwaters, 3 rockguts is garbage. If you're going to 6 then you take rockguts.

So your comparision is 150 for 3 fellwaters or 280 for 6 rockguts. It's two different roles.

I value the 5++ more than the -1. The damage isn't necessarily the deciding factor. I appreciate Fellwaters for their ability to be more independent. Also Rockgut shooting, even though it does less, can be guaranteed damage with a 24" max range.

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19 minutes ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said:

I value the 5++ more than the -1. The damage isn't necessarily the deciding factor. I appreciate Fellwaters for their ability to be more independent. Also Rockgut shooting, even though it does less, can be guaranteed damage with a 24" max range.

Point is that at 3s Fellwaters are better than Rockguts. Rockguts are just to unreliable in 3s.

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1 minute ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said:

Good thing I don't run Rockguts in 3s.

Thus proving my point ;) as you should never run fellwaters in 6s haha

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I have been running Rockguts in 3s and I think I prefer it that way. I'd rather have more units and not have to worry about babysitting for battleshock. Yeah I lose the automatic throws but I'm also getting more than double the attempts at a 50%. 

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Just now, ShaneHobbes said:

I have been running Rockguts in 3s and I think I prefer it that way. I'd rather have more units and not have to worry about babysitting for battleshock. Yeah I lose the automatic throws but I'm also getting more than double the attempts at a 50%. 

You're babysitting for reroll 1s and we exhale command points with every breath so there's not really an issue there. Given the new reductions, Rockguts in 6s are pretty much an auto include. And the guaranteed hit means that, in my experience, the two units of 6 I use that usually fight side by side can remove backline heroes instantly with good chances. Sure you get more chances, but it's just that, a chance.

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So far for meeting engagements I have:
Troggboss
Rockgut x 2
Fellwater x1

With the remaining 300 points I was thinking either:
-Dankhold and a fungoid

- 2 units of Fellwater

-another unit of 6 Rockgut

-1 Fellwater and 1 Rockgut

What do yall think?

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As the owner of 15 Fellwaters and 0 Rockguts im slightly sad they arent at the same points level. Thinking I might get 6 Rockguts and try fun lists

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