AoS2 - Dankhold Troggoth Discussion

[a74xhx]

14 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

I agree.  I will probably add some extra conversion bits to distinguish a boss a bit more - such as a dented metal crown or more overgrown with rocks/mushrooms. But to me the "Troggboss" build for the kit simply looks like an alternate normal Dankhold.

Your model looks great.  Very well painted!  👍

What I find odd with the kit is there is nothing in the lore/rules to explicitly distinguish between the two builds. They both carry boulder clubs; In the past, the "stone attached to a stick" club would be named differently to "pointy stone" club.

I'm wondering if I should try magnetise him for both builds. But what explicitly marks one build from the other? Weapon? Shoulder mushrooms? Necklace? Head?

"Strict GW tournament rules" aren't going to allow you to do a counts-as between the two - but, where is the cut off on a kit bash that's halfway between the two?

Looking at my Treelord/Durthu, I magnetised the weapon and the head. But some of the other bits I stuck with Durthu build. That's because my young Treelord want's to be a Durthu when he grows up. It all made sense where to go with it.

Also, more I think about it, taking a group of three dankholds in a unit is going to look bad because they are all going to be identical. The kit was designed as two single monster builds, not a unit. (Ok, I know that's going to be a very rare list, but still). When building for this, I suspect people are going to start incorporating parts of the boss to add the variety.

 

11 hours ago, Deadkitten said:

NO NO The FW Hag riding the Beetle!

That poor beetle!

[Eevika]

1 hour ago, a74xhx said:

What I find odd with the kit is there is nothing in the lore/rules to explicitly distinguish between the two builds. They both carry boulder clubs; In the past, the "stone attached to a stick" club would be named differently to "pointy stone" club.

 I'm wondering if I should try magnetise him for both builds. But what explicitly marks one build from the other? Weapon? Shoulder mushrooms? Necklace? Head?

"Strict GW tournament rules" aren't going to allow you to do a counts-as between the two - but, where is the cut off on a kit bash that's halfway between the two?

I just slapped the boss head on the dankhold and call it a boss. Its literally WYSIWYG anyways so there should be no issues. 

[Skabnoze]

I don't think GW can enforce people fielding any parts from the kit as either a boss or a normal Dankhold.  They don't have strict counts-as rules that do not allow conversions.  Head swaps, weapon swaps, etc has always been easily allowed for modeling.  Hardly anyone will care as long as your boss stands out as suitably "bossy" in some fashion - whether that is model, paint-job or whatever.  The mangler kit has the same issue.  The only thing that seems to identify the boss is the armor plates on the squigs and the swarm of riders on top are wearing helmets.  I plan to convert my Mangler boss so that the boss rider stands out as a character Loonboss, but I expect that kit will often confuse opponents and people will regularly mix bits from both builds (I know that I will).

The key is to hobby so that your model looks cooler to you - but not to purposefully try to model for advantage or to confuse your opponent.  Also, if there is a possibility for an opponent to be confused simply be upfront about what is what at the start of the game and throughout so that they are not caught by surprise.  Just being a friendly opponent and a good sport goes an awfully long way in general.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Skabnoze

[Chunk]

My troggboss is mainly identified by his battered captain's hat.

 

Sailing ability not included.

[Malakree]

1 minute ago, Chunk said:

My troggboss is mainly identified by his battered captain's hat.

 

Sailing ability not included.

So much better than that stupid skull, god I hate that skullcap face so much...

[Xemenes]

Just throwing in my chaos troggoth conversions, I want to run a full chaos converted troggoth army

[Deadkitten]

So how do Troggs play?  I got crushed at an event recently.  I know there's the Battalion that does extra damage on a 6.  Doesn't seem great outside of needing reduced drops and the extra artifact.  Do they play aggressively?  Somewhat cagey?  Screens of squig hoppers or snotlings seems fun.  Is this an army of hobby love?  

I kind of like the Fellwater model.  Not sure why everyone is so down on it.  

 

[Mayple]

Since we're showing off Troggbosses

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, Deadkitten said:

So how do Troggs play?  I got crushed at an event recently.  I know there's the Battalion that does extra damage on a 6.  Doesn't seem great outside of needing reduced drops and the extra artifact.  Do they play aggressively?  Somewhat cagey?  Screens of squig hoppers or snotlings seems fun.  Is this an army of hobby love?  

I kind of like the Fellwater model.  Not sure why everyone is so down on it.  

The rockgut model is just so nice to put together/paint that the fellwater is bit of a ****** in comparison. Personally I'm going to be running my Troggs with a screen of Grots to abuse their 2" range.

[Skabnoze]

4 hours ago, Mayple said:

Since we're showing off Troggbosses

That is a really excellent conversion.  I love the use of the armored squig from the Hoppers kit for the troll face.  That and the cape really makes him look like a boss much more than the standard model.  I may steal some elements of this.  The paint job is fantastic as well. 👍

[Mayple]

@Skabnoze steal away

[Skabnoze]

22 minutes ago, Mayple said:

@Skabnoze steal away

Thanks - although I have zero issues about stealing good conversion ideas without permission.  😉

I like the base also.  That is a good use for the old scenic 40k plastic dreadnought base.

[Deadkitten]

Allegiance: Destruction
Troggoth Hag (380)
Dankhold Troggboss (300)
Madcap Shaman (80)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (160)
6 x Fellwater Troggoths (320)
6 x Fellwater Troggoths (320)
10 x Squig Hoppers (180)
Skitterstrand Arachnarok (260)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 126
 

Spitballing here.

[kenshin620]

6 hours ago, Malakree said:

The rockgut model is just so nice to put together/paint that the fellwater is bit of a ****** in comparison.

Man I remember when the fellwaters came out and people fell (hah pun) in love with them.

Though manly since they used them for the Throgg chaos monster armies and not actually for O&G, and the old chaos trolls were quite dated.

[Skabnoze]

1 hour ago, kenshin620 said:

Man I remember when the fellwaters came out and people fell (hah pun) in love with them.

Though manly since they used them for the Throgg chaos monster armies and not actually for O&G, and the old chaos trolls were quite dated.

Most everyone I knew that played Orcs & Goblins used them.  Monstrous Infantry was really good in 8th edition and the River Trolls were excellent.

[TeddyMadeMeDoIt]

@Mayple congrats for posting what will be the most copied conversion on here! (I'll be doing it for sure 😀 ) great Trogboss mate, nice work

 

I think I've posted the list I've settled on before,  for a balance of fun/kick ass...

Spoiler

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
LEADERS
Dankhold Troggboss (300) - General
Troggoth Hag (380)
UNITS
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (320)
3 x Rockgut Troggoths (160)
3 x Rockgut Troggoths (160)
BEHEMOTHS
Aleguzzler Gargant (160)
Aleguzzler Gargant (160)
BATTALIONS
Troggherd (180)
ENDLESS SPELLS
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (50)
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)
TOTAL: 1930/2000     EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2     WOUNDS: 100
LEADERS: 2/6    BATTLELINES: 3 (3+)    BEHEMOTHS: 3/4    ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 0/2    ALLIES: 0/400

...but I've been thinking about Rage grip as some in the club have trouble with it, being written as blade but not put on a weapon whwn we put it on his hands. Now I have to say here although that I get where they are coming from I'm not sure I completely agree as it also lists melee weapon in the description (which is clear on the Troggboss warscroll) but that's not why I'm posting this and don't want the conversation to veer too far down this track. The only reason I mention it is so you guys know why I'm looking for alternative to the Rage grip.

So I've been looking for some nice combos away from that with the boss and the hag from the list above and these are the ones I have found, thought I'd ask you guys your input on these and if you've found an good combos yourselves...

Realm - Chamon

• Boss -  Argentines Tooth (Re-Roll hit rolls of 1 for club), Mighty Blow (Re-roll damage for club)
• Hag - Alchemical Chain (1 additional dispel attempt)

Realm - Aqshy

• Boss - Magmaforge Blade (Wound of 6+ 1 mortal damage in addition), Loonskin (Re-Roll 4+ regen/d3 regen until moon goes off board)
• Hag - Smouldering Helm (Save 6+ in combat phase does1 mortal wound)

Realm - Ghryan

• Boss - Ghyrstrike (+1 hit and +1 wound for club), Tough as Rocks (12 wounds to 14 wounds)
• Hag - Jade Diadem (6+ save heals 1 wound)

 

If I went Ragegrip with Ghur I'd also put Shardfist on Hag to give mortal wounds out on 6+ saves in combat.

[Jetengine]

The issue imo with the Fellwaters is the Feet conection and the assembly/gap areas 

[The World Tree]

Quick question that I'm sure has been answered many times, but when throwing boulders with the Rockguts, you have to roll under the number of models in the unit of Troggoths, not the opposing unit, correct?

[novakai]

24 minutes ago, The World Tree said:

Quick question that I'm sure has been answered many times, but when throwing boulders with the Rockguts, you have to roll under the number of models in the unit of Troggoths, not the opposing unit, correct?

yes, you roll for the Rockgut unit. so if you have a unit of 6 you automatically hit with the ability.

[The World Tree]

5 minutes ago, novakai said:

yes, you roll for the Rockgut unit. so if you have a unit of 6 you automatically hit with the ability.

Thanks, thats how I played it

[Snowl]

Has anyone had games with their Troggoth lists? I'd be really interested to hear how they went. 

I know a pure Trogg army is a little fluffy so not expecting any tournament breaking synergies to appear but I haven't had a chance to run my list yet (or even finalise a list!) and I'm finding it hard to visualise how the games would go. 

Do we have enough models to contest objectives well?

• Are we killy enough to fight effectively?
• Are Troggs actually that durable?
• Is the Hag worth the points sink?
• Rockguts vs. Fellwaters, how does each fare?
• How do we utilise the bad moon / loonshrine?
• Is the ragegrip troggboss build as good as it sounds?

So many questions!. 

Also, @Skabnoze That Troggboss is fantastic!

[TMS]

1 hour ago, Snowl said:

Has anyone had games with their Troggoth lists? I'd be really interested to hear how they went. 

I know a pure Trogg army is a little fluffy so not expecting any tournament breaking synergies to appear but I haven't had a chance to run my list yet (or even finalise a list!) and I'm finding it hard to visualise how the games would go. 

Do we have enough models to contest objectives well?

• Are we killy enough to fight effectively?
• Are Troggs actually that durable?
• Is the Hag worth the points sink?
• Rockguts vs. Fellwaters, how does each fare?
• How do we utilise the bad moon / loonshrine?
• Is the ragegrip troggboss build as good as it sounds?

So many questions!.

I don't play Troggoths myself but have played against them a couple of times with my Soulblight (Legions of Nagash with only Blood Knights as battleline, so both armies are quite elite) at 1k and 2k. The trogs hit hard enough to scare me to not engage in more than one location at a time. Even if it would mean landing multiple big charges I would hold off, since I can only strike first in one place. Both Stoneguts and Fellwaters are dangerous in this regard, and the Dankholds and the Hag are as well but less so for their large points cost.

Stoneguts and Fellwaters are both strong in groups of 6. It's a good size to be able to take a hit and still swing back with power. The Stoneguts are tough (6 of them took a charge from 10 Blood Knights and they held up) while I'd say the Fellwaters hit a bit harder, since they've got so many more attacks. The big Trogs are deadly too, but the low number of attacks make them more vulnerable to a few bad dice rolls. Both Dankholds and the Hag are also much less survivable than Stoneguts since they lack the second save, and it is very noticeable. The 4+ extra save Trog artefact is probably the one I fear the most as it turns the bearer into a huge roadblock, capable of stopping pretty much anything in place for atleast a turn.

The biggest challenge I've seen for Troggoths is mobility. They must stay close enough to support each other and not spread out too much. In our games I had a big advantage in speed and could focus down on one part of the field while holding off elsewhere, coming back to strike when I was finished with the first target. I think Trogs should stay closer together so that when something gets stuck on a group of Stoneguts or Fellwaters there'll be reinforcements coming in immediately.

The Hand of Gork spell is a great compliment but I don't know if Troggoths are able to cast that on their own, there's been a mushroom shaman in the Trog list everytime we've played.

 

[Skabnoze]

16 hours ago, Snowl said:

Also, @Skabnoze That Troggboss is fantastic!

Thanks, but that is not mine.  The pic in my post was simply quoted.  Direct your praise to @Mayple and then blatantly steal the idea since that is the best form of hobby flattery.

[Snowl]

17 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

Thanks, but that is not mine.  The pic in my post was simply quoted.  Direct your praise to @Mayple and then blatantly steal the idea since that is the best form of hobby flattery.

Haha, whoops!

I may jot steal it entirely but I'm definitely eyeing up my troggboss for alterations after seeing that.

@TMS Thanks for that! There's a lot to digest from that. I'm sure I'll have more questions at somepoint but my main one for now is about the Hag. You mentioned sheds not as survivable as she seems which actually surprises me. Running her with gryph-feather charm and careful use of her Hag Curse would make her -3 to hit in a lot of cases. In my mind she looked to be one of the more durable units in the roster. 

[TMS]

@Snowl, the Hag didn't have the Gryph-feather Charm, which  I agree would be a great pick. The Dankhold Troggboss instead had the Ghyrstrike for his club, which I don't entirely agree with. The 4+ extra save scares me much more, like I said, and the Charm on the Hag would as well. I think running the Troggherd battalion to get access to a second artefact could be a good idea.

The Hag got on the bad end of my Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon, fully buffed up. The breath attack took away 6 wounds before charging in, and with the Lord's own Dread Knight command ability (re-rolling all misses for himself and the dragon - such a good command trait for the model to have for itself) the remaining wounds went away rather fast. Some lucky rolling was involved, of course, but the lack of an extra save is really noticeable when you compare Stoneguts (or that 4+ artefact) to other Trogs. Two chances to remove incoming wounds really is that good.

As you can see below, it wasn't the nicest of situations for the Hag.

Image of the Hag about to have a bad time.

*Is there anyway to get this site to not shrink images you upload?

Edited March 11, 2019 by TMS