AoS2 - Dankhold Troggoth Discussion

[5kaven5lave]

7 minutes ago, Rid said:

Maths is hard

1 Dankhold Trogboss 300

1 Trog Hag 380

1 Mollog

6 Fellwater Trogs 320

3 Fellwater Trogs 160

3 Rockgut Trogs 160

1 Dankhold Trog 220

Troggoth Herd 180

 

leaves 110 for two command pts and possibly a triumph 

 

Love this list. Not sure how many games you’ll win with 19 bodies though, which I guess is why people are taking a few Grots as well. 

[Eevika]

2 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Love this list. Not sure how many games you’ll win with 19 bodies though, which I guess is why people are taking a few Grots as well. 

Thats the price you pay to play something fun and thematic

[5kaven5lave]

20 minutes ago, Eevika said:

Thats the price you pay to play something fun and thematic

Absolutely correct, and I reckon that a Trollherd with a few Gobbos running after them and looning about is just as thematic and fun, albeit with a slight concession to competitive play. 

EDIT: Sorry, I have no idea why this is in massive font!!

Edited January 6, 2019 by 5kaven5lave

[Mohojoe]

Glad you have started this, was thinking of something similar myself but I'm lazy. 

 

As for what I'm doing, I'm going full trolls to start with. Get a good feel for the army and then I may add in some more competitive ******   units to up the win rate. 

I'm super excited for the release. Been wanting a good looking elite monstermash army for a while. 

[Rid]

Got Deepkin and Slaanesh for competitive games, this is just rule of cool at its purest hence including every available troll type

[Malakree]

4 hours ago, Eevika said:

I'm interested in whats the benefit of running bosses instead of Regular Dankhold troggoths? Isn't the main advantage of the boss to give troggoth battleline. I mean the regular Dankhold Troggoth is 80 points cheaper for a nerf of 2 wounds

Yep, I'm starting with the premise that you want to be able to secure your CAs. Hence my, can't run both because the points are so fricking tight you end up with no Troggs to buff 😅

Oh and to actually answer the question. The normal Dankhold Troggoth doesn't have the command ability which lets you RR1's with your troggs.

4 hours ago, Walrustaco said:

You know when I think about discussing Troggoth lists I don't think "let me put ONE HUNDRED tiny goblins in my list"

Let's get serious with the Troggoth lists here guys

Yeah, sadly there's a small part of me which just can't help try to be competitive and the pure lack of bodies is something which needs fixing. Also Skragrott for getting that moon in the right place....hag healing 2 x d6 wounds is just 🤤! I'd probably also end up throwing in some grots just for the wizard options.

3 hours ago, Gothmaug said:

To add to the discussion there is one more troggoth unit available. Mollug from shadespire underworlds.

 

Hes got a club that auto inflicts mortal wounds, and some squig pals that may make things interesting. Also he’s a dankhold troll so tilts the battallion

I looked at it, but actually don't know his warscroll. Sadly since the battalion isn't Keyword Bold it has to specifically be the unit "Dankhold Troggoth" and so he can't be in it 😥 it's why the battalion irritates me so much....

3 hours ago, sorokyl said:

small nitpick ( sorry)
is it possible to edit the name of the topic? it's a bit unfortunate, as you are intending to cover all Troggherd units, but Fellwater, Hag, Rockgut, and Gargants aren't Dankhold. 

I actually can't I think, would need to ask @Chris Tomlin I think. I picked it because "Dankhold" is such an awesome name for an army and you have to have the Dankhold Troggboss to run it.

Quote

Fungoid Shaman (90) 
- General
Squig Herd (70)
Squig Herd (70)
Squig Herd (70)

Dankhold Troggboss (300)
Dankhold Troggboss (300)
3 x Dankhold Troggoths (660)
2 x Dankhold Troggoths (440)

2000/2000

For anyone wondering the most Dankhold Troggoths you can get in an army is 7 although there are far more reasonable lists at 6 (with 9 lesser troggs 🤣)

Being more serious about it. The more I look at it the more I think Skragrott is just to restrictive to take as your general, especially given how few CP's we need, for 620 points you can get a Troggboss and 6 Battleline Troggoths (Abriviated to Battletroggs from now) 

[Rid]

2 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Love this list. Not sure how many games you’ll win with 19 bodies though, which I guess is why people are taking a few Grots as well. 

Actually, sod those extra cp’s, put in that spider Cauldron spell and the hag gets access to the Grot spell lore 👌🏻

[Gothmaug]

For those looking for mollug’s warscroll, if you go to the offices GW’s store and look at the gloomspite battletome for sale, one of the example pages shown has Mollugs warscroll ( along with the fellwater and rockgut warscrolls). 

I’d link it but I’n not too formun savy 

[Jupiter]

I wish the old king also had a place. Recently got the model as a start of a themed troll army for casual narrative play. Could he be used as throgg boss? 

[Eevika]

12 minutes ago, Jupiter said:

I wish the old king also had a place. Recently got the model as a start of a themed troll army for casual narrative play. Could he be used as throgg boss? 

Do you mean Throgg? He was always a chaos character not destruction

 

[5kaven5lave]

18 minutes ago, Rid said:

Actually, sod those extra cp’s, put in that spider Cauldron spell and the hag gets access to the Grot spell lore 👌🏻

Yep indeedy. Her unique spell is a beast as it is so more nice spells won’t hurt one bit. I think that Cauldron spell is going to be huge. 

[novakai]

I wonder, any reason to every to take one unit of 3 dankhold troggoth? 

I know it expensive point wise but it sounds fun having three of them attack at once and delete something of the board. 

[Knight Scáthach of Fimm]

2 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Yep indeedy. Her unique spell is a beast as it is so more nice spells won’t hurt one bit. I think that Cauldron spell is going to be huge. 

Also remember that the sacrifice is at the start of the hero phase while her regeneration is during the hero phase, so she can basically get away without issue.

[Knight Scáthach of Fimm]

2 minutes ago, novakai said:

I wonder, any reason to every to take one unit of 3 dankhold troggoth? 

I know it expensive point wise but it sounds fun having three of them attack at once and delete something of the board. 

They would benefit most from the enhanced regeneration which is one advantage, but as it stands a unit of 3 Rockguts should be doing more damage in total than one dankboi due to more attacks and consistent damage. Saying that, 3 fist attacks can split a unit apart. My Troggboss is going to be taking the Blade of Hammerhal Gyra to get +1 attack on his fist; totally for fun, although against Stormcast it's going to be amazing (I'd take the +2 wounds normally unless going up against an Elite army where he'd take the re-roll grip attacks to crush entire Dracoths with reasonable effectiveness). I'm thinking his name will be Hands.

 

[Flogger]

Probably buying this on Saturday:

300 Dankhold Trogboss

170 Mollog

220 Dankhold Troggoth

8x 160 Rockgut (24 of them in units of 3)

thats 1970, I don’t think the battalion is worth paying for when playing rockgut rather than fellwater and if you want the battalion I would probably go all fellwater instead of rockgut, and I think troggoths are always best in units of 3 and no more, especially rockguts since they shoot d3 mortal wounds per unit. 

Edited January 6, 2019 by Flogger

[Eevika]

11 minutes ago, Flogger said:

Probably buying this on Saturday:

300 Dankhold Trogboss

170 Mollog

220 Dankhold Troggoth

8x 160 Rockgut (3 of them)

thats 1970, I don’t think the battalion is worth paying for and I think troggoths are always best in units of 3 and no more, especially rockguts since they shoot d3 mortal wounds per unit. 

Interested in why rockguts when they are pretty clearly worse than fellwater troggoths. 

[Infeston]

1 minute ago, Eevika said:

Interested in why rockguts when they are pretty clearly worse than fellwater troggoths. 

Because they are new and shiny!

[Flogger]

1 minute ago, Eevika said:

Interested in why rockguts when they are pretty clearly worse than fellwater troggoths. 

I don’t agree with them being clearly worse. I think both units are perfectly fine and I could see myself taking both. However, I much prefer the rockgut models as the theme I’m going for doesn’t really suit the fellwater.

[Eevika]

4 minutes ago, Flogger said:

I don’t agree with them being clearly worse. I think both units are perfectly fine and I could see myself taking both. However, I much prefer the rockgut models as the theme I’m going for doesn’t really suit the fellwater.

Yeah I can definitely agree with the theme reason.  I'm running only fellwater for my swamp theme

[Vasshpit]

50 minutes ago, Eevika said:

Interested in why rockguts when they are pretty clearly worse than fellwater troggoths. 

Whys that?  I Haven't seen the new warscrolls yet...

[Knight Scáthach of Fimm]

Fellwaters will mince infantry but up against Sequitors it's the Rockguts that will do work.

[Scythian]

My trollherd

2 Trog Bosses

1 madcap shaman

3 dankhold trogs

3 units of 3 rock guts 

troll herd battalion 

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, Flogger said:

I don’t think the battalion is worth paying for when playing rockgut rather than fellwater and if you want the battalion I would probably go all fellwater instead of rockgut

As a side note, the Battalion only applies to melee attacks so the fellwater puke wouldn't get the buff.

20 minutes ago, Scythian said:

My trollherd

2 Trog Bosses

1 madcap shaman

3 dankhold trogs

3 units of 3 rock guts 

troll herd battalion 

Man I really want to like the Troggherd but it's just mediocre, especially when you start stacking Dankholds in it, they do massive damage with a small number of attacks. On the other hand if you go for mainly Fellwater Troggoths it might actually start to pay it's way just because of the number of attacks you can throw out. Sadly due to Rockguts only having 2 attacks each they get half the effectiveness from the Troggherd while a Dankhold gets 1/3rd the output.

 An expected output of 1.57 damage per unit per attack when averaged overtime.
That's the number of extra damage per 3 Fellwater you can expect to get against a 6+ or no save from the battalion.

 1 damage/unit/attack.
This is the same 3 Fellwater against a 4+ save, if we compare this to the amount of damage that unit will be doing without the battalion buff.

 6.8 damage/unit/attack.

Meaning that at 7 full units of Fellwater Troggoths attacking at the same time the battalion has a higher expected damage output than just 1 extra unit of Fellwater Troggoths. This is ofc ignoring all the extra details such as the 2.7 D/U/A for the pukes or the CP/Artefact.

Conclusion
The Troggherd really requires you to be running around 6/7 units of Fellwater Troggoths in order to be worth it meaning a minimum sized efficient Troggherd comes in at around 1260 points. 1 x (Dankhold Troggboss) and 6 x (3 x Fellwater Troggoths) below that just take an extra unit of BattleTroggs. Each unit of Fellwaters is equivilent to 2xRockgut or 3xDankhold. Meaning that you are going to need At Least 4 units of Fellwater troggoths to make this battalion worth it.

With this in mind I'm think that actually the normal Dankhold Troggoth might actually be a trap for Troggoth lists, it's to expensive, doesn't bring the wounds or attacks and doesn't offer the Command Ability. So it's probably only useful as a +1 in more Moonclan focused lists. That said a unit of 3xDankhold Troggoths has a 43% chance to instikill a 6 wound character or 70% chance vs 5wound character...

For anyone interested in Molog (who is amazing) or the BattleTroggs comparisions.

Final analysis is that a Troggherd list is going to look something like this.

Quote

Leaders
Dankhold Troggboss (300)
- General
Dankhold Troggboss (300)

Battleline
6 x Fellwater Troggoths (320)
6 x Fellwater Troggoths (320)
3 x Rockgut Troggoths (160)
3 x Rockgut Troggoths (160)
20 x Stabbas (130)
20 x Stabbas (130)

Battalions
Troggherd (180)

Total 2000/ 2000

Couple of list building choices here.

1. Double Troggboss is mandatory, especially with the extra artefact.
2. Fellwaters should be in units of 6, they lose nothing and can now provide Lookout Sir! for your Troggbosses
3. 2 units of Rockguts for their huge anti-armour options, this gives you 32 -2 rend attacks across the army and they are ALL multiple damage!
4. 2 units of stabbas because they fit the points nicely, they add bodies/chaff, can be resummoned, give you netters and provide Lookout Sir!
5. Molog/Troggoth Hag are absent because they don't go in the Troggherd
6. No Dankhold Troggoths because they really don't benefit from the Troggherd and are just to expensive to make it efficient with them.

Honestly this seems like a fairly reasonable list, my only complaint is the lack of wizards but I suspect that is inevitable with Troggherds.

[Lord Krungharr]

Which are the Troggoths that puke on people?  That could be a good theme.  

I just got into Bullgor heavy Beasts of Chaos but these Rockgut Troggoths are sounding better in many ways.  And WOW, love these new models!

[Morhgoz]

22 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Which are the Troggoths that puke on people?  That could be a good theme.  

I just got into Bullgor heavy Beasts of Chaos but these Rockgut Troggoths are sounding better in many ways.  And WOW, love these new models!

Fellwater.