AoS2 - Dankhold Troggoth Discussion

[Skabnoze]

40 minutes ago, Malakree said:

No, the battalion doesn't have keyword bold in it which means it's only units with that exact name. Same as with ardboys and ironskullz.

I expected there was some distinction about this.  Is this explained in the main rulebook or is it in the GHB?

Well, even outside of the battalion I am pretty excited that he can be included without using the ally slot.  That means I can take more than one.

 

EDIT:  So I dug into the core rulebook and found it:  pages 239-240.  This also means that Mollog does not count for the Trogg Herd battalion.

Edited February 2, 2019 by Skabnoze

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Skabnoze said:

I expected there was some distinction about this.  Is this explained in the main rulebook or is it in the GHB?

Well, even outside of the battalion I am pretty excited that he can be included without using the ally slot.  That means I can take more than one.

 

EDIT:  So I dug into the core rulebook and found it:  pages 239-240.  This also means that Mollog does not count for the Trogg Herd battalion.

It's one of the things I explicitly asked for an errata for in the questions email I sent.

Not being able to take a second troggboss in the battalion is a joke. You get an extra artefact for it and you can't even use a second hero in the battalion 😡

[Skabnoze]

3 minutes ago, Malakree said:

It's one of the things I explicitly asked for an errata for in the questions email I sent.

Not being able to take a second troggboss in the battalion is a joke. You get an extra artefact for it and you can't even use a second hero in the battalion 😡

On the flip side - it does seem like a Troll thing to do!

[Fuzzwyr]

13 hours ago, Malakree said:

It's one of the things I explicitly asked for an errata for in the questions email I sent.

Not being able to take a second troggboss in the battalion is a joke. You get an extra artefact for it and you can't even use a second hero in the battalion 😡

...but You can give the second artefact to a character outside the batallion, can't You?

[Batch]

2 hours ago, Fuzzwyr said:

...but You can give the second artefact to a character outside the batallion, can't You?

Of course,  it just doesnt make sense that the battalion gives you another artifact but doesnt allow you to put it on anyone else in the battalion, even considering the sub factions low model count.

[Batch]

So Fellwater Troggoths are apparently back on sale on their website,  but whenever I try to pay via paypal it says the payment had an error and clears my cart....what gives?

 

Tried it on a PC and not my Phone and it went through fine...eh

Edited February 3, 2019 by Batch

[herohammer]

Fell water seem to be going in and out of stock for the US. I think they are selling a lot more of them than expected which imho is predictable given how good their price point is since they didn’t go up at all to match the new guys.

[Scythian]

One Aleguzzler Gargant away from a fully painted Troll Army. 

[kenshin620]

19 hours ago, Batch said:

Of course,  it just doesnt make sense that the battalion gives you another artifact but doesnt allow you to put it on anyone else in the battalion, even considering the sub factions low model count.

 

To be fair many battalions don't even have Leaders.

[GrimTeef]

That is just an awesome sight to behold, @Scythian ! Really inspiring. Working on my 6 Rockgut now, so I appreciate the kick in the pants to get them going!

[Scythian]

13 hours ago, GrimTeef said:

That is just an awesome sight to behold, @Scythian ! Really inspiring. Working on my 6 Rockgut now, so I appreciate the kick in the pants to get them going!

I don’t want to see a paint brush for next month, lol

[Sword&ShieldG1]

Hi guys! 

What do you think about theese lists? Which do you prefer?

troggboss with Ghyrstrike and mighty blow 

fungoid-cave shaman with hand of gork

fungoid- cave shaman with itchy nuisance

6 rockgut troggoths

6 fellwater troggoths

3 rockgut troggoths

3 dankhold troggoths

chronomantic cogs 

2000/2000

or 

Troggboss with ghyrstrike and mighty blow

fungoid with hand of gork

fungoid with itchy nuisance 

Hag trogg

3 rockguts troggoths

3 rockguts troggoths

6 fellwater troggoths

2  dankhold troggoths

chronomantic cogs

2000/2000

 

 

[Scythian]

It just occurred to me that Rockguts can run and throw rocks. The rock toss is not shooting as Rockguts have no shooting profile. This is simply an ability used in the shooting phase. 

[Batch]

46 minutes ago, Scythian said:

It just occurred to me that Rockguts can run and throw rocks. The rock toss is not shooting as Rockguts have no shooting profile. This is simply an ability used in the shooting phase. 

And can also target units even if they are in melee combat.

Not simply putting those rocks on the weapons table made them extremely versatile. 

[Scythian]

5 minutes ago, Batch said:

And can also target units even if they are in melee combat.

Not simply putting those rocks on the weapons table made them extremely versatile. 

Wow, another good point! Excellent, Batch!

[Charly2912]

I am kinda sad that sourbreaths are Not included into gloomspite. 

They dont even have the right keyword to ally them. So you can play sourbreaths only in generic destruction Armies?

Do you guys Think there is a chance that this will get updated? I have One unit of them left and i think they fit well into the Theme. I woud be happy if i may ally them in at least 

[Scythian]

2 hours ago, Charly2912 said:

I am kinda sad that sourbreaths are Not included into gloomspite. 

They dont even have the right keyword to ally them. So you can play sourbreaths only in generic destruction Armies?

Do you guys Think there is a chance that this will get updated? I have One unit of them left and i think they fit well into the Theme. I woud be happy if i may ally them in at least 

Unfortunately, it looks like they’ve been scrapped along with Greenskinz and Gitmob Grots. They are casualties of an ever updating and changing AoS universe. I would dump them fast on eBay before you’re stuck with them. GW has taken most of their old stock offline and has only kept what they felt they could sell.  It was inevitable. 

[Jetengine]

I'd just use them as Rockguts. Their great models.

[Skabnoze]

On 2/3/2019 at 11:46 AM, kenshin620 said:

 

To be fair many battalions don't even have Leaders.

A lot of the moonclan grot ones don't.

[Skabnoze]

13 hours ago, Charly2912 said:

I am kinda sad that sourbreaths are Not included into gloomspite. 

They dont even have the right keyword to ally them. So you can play sourbreaths only in generic destruction Armies?

Do you guys Think there is a chance that this will get updated? I have One unit of them left and i think they fit well into the Theme. I woud be happy if i may ally them in at least 

Just use them as another type of troll.  That is what I plan to do with mine.  Honestly, if you don't want them then send me a PM and I might take them off your hands.

[Malakree]

14 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

A lot of the moonclan grot ones don't.

Aye but Troggoths are also the only subfaction with only 1 battalion. Functionally the Troggherd is our megabattalion but with no real option for a 1 drop. Considering that it's probably one of the weaker battalions AND it's also the most expensive the fact you can't 1 drop it burns pretty bad.

For comparison

• Spiderfang Stalktribe is 330 for a 1 drop with 3 battalions each with some solid buffs.
• Moonclan Skrap is 280 for a 1 drop with 2 battalions better effects.
• Squigalanche is 230 for a 1 drop with 2 battalions and the best battalion buffs in the book.
• Troggherd is 180 points for at best a 2 drop with 1 battalion and a pretty awful bonus.

To put it in perspective, a standard Dankhold Troggoth is probably the most overcosted Troggoth in the book. For 220 points it's expected damage is ~5.4. Now the absolute optimum unit in a Troggherd is a Fellwater Troggoth which gives you the best outcome possible, for every 3 Fellwater Troggoths in a Troggherd we get around ~1.56 damage. 

This means a Troggherd has to have 9 Fellwater Troggoths in it to break even with our worst option, an option which is taken primarily for all it's other utility/buffs which I haven't accounted for. In reality if we compare it to Rockgut Troggoths (Since they average out worse than Fellwaters for basic situations) we're comparing it to ~10.3 damage So a Troggherd has to have at least 6 units of Fellwater Troggoths in it to break even with a unit of Rockguts. That means you're well over 1000 points into your army before a Troggherd even gets close to viability.

The least we could get for that is the ability to 1 drop our Troggoths and Gargants.

[Scythian]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Aye but Troggoths are also the only subfaction with only 1 battalion. Functionally the Troggherd is our megabattalion but with no real option for a 1 drop. Considering that it's probably one of the weaker battalions AND it's also the most expensive the fact you can't 1 drop it burns pretty bad.

For comparison

• Spiderfang Stalktribe is 330 for a 1 drop with 3 battalions each with some solid buffs.
• Moonclan Skrap is 280 for a 1 drop with 2 battalions better effects.
• Squigalanche is 230 for a 1 drop with 2 battalions and the best battalion buffs in the book.
• Troggherd is 180 points for at best a 2 drop with 1 battalion and a pretty awful bonus.

To put it in perspective, a standard Dankhold Troggoth is probably the most overcosted Troggoth in the book. For 220 points it's expected damage is ~5.4. Now the absolute optimum unit in a Troggherd is a Fellwater Troggoth which gives you the best outcome possible, for every 3 Fellwater Troggoths in a Troggherd we get around ~1.56 damage. 

This means a Troggherd has to have 9 Fellwater Troggoths in it to break even with our worst option, an option which is taken primarily for all it's other utility/buffs which I haven't accounted for. In reality if we compare it to Rockgut Troggoths (Since they average out worse than Fellwaters for basic situations) we're comparing it to ~10.3 damage So a Troggherd has to have at least 6 units of Fellwater Troggoths in it to break even with a unit of Rockguts. That means you're well over 1000 points into your army before a Troggherd even gets close to viability.

The least we could get for that is the ability to 1 drop our Troggoths and Gargants.

Sadly, the trog army concept is not competitively very viable. Our gaps are so pronounced and our deficits so severe that playing them seems only appropriate from an artistic or aesthetic point of view.  I’m playing my trog army because the paint job I’ve chosen is artistically appealing to both my opponent and myself. Sometimes, we must chose the armies and models we want to play rather than the crush and kill army we know we should play. At least if we want to compete that is. Case in point...

Here is an honest breakdown of my own troll army. 

Dankhold Trogboss - Some uses, but he is largely the “troll army tax.” However, I love the model which makes me want to use him. 

2 Fungoid Cave Shamans - Command point generators, pure and simple. Warscroll spell stinks, but they are used for endless spell casting. 

1 Madcap Shaman - Shroud of Night warscroll spell. Needed to protect boss or my big trog unit. 

1 Dankhold Troggoth - Aesthetic tax. The model simply MUST be in a troll army because he’s just so cool looking. Gameplay wise, he’s a HUGE point sink that has horrible averages for damage output. 

9 Rockgut Troggoths - The meat and potatoes of the army. Great stat line, good damage output, bad armor, but a nice 5 up “ward save.” Rock toss is nice and doesn’t count as shooting for gameplay purposes, but low mortal damage output to be a seriously threatening attack. 

2 @ 6 Rockgut Troggoths - See above. 

Mork’s Mighty Mushroom 🍄 - Great endless spell and wonderful horde killer. Basically a long range Medusa attack. A must in any Gloomspite Gitz army. 

I chose my army because it will look great on a table. People will and are drawn to it because of the models. Realistically, in a competitive setting playing 5 games, I’ll be lucky to win 2. When you play an army based on aesthetics, you pay the “Aesthetics Tax.” I’ve accepted this fact going into this army. You can’t get depressed or upset with your opponents for outmaneuvering you, shooting you to pieces, or simply turning you into a punching bag for an hour or so. When you play this type of army, you must accept the consequences of vanity. It’s a price I’m gladly willing to pay. I only play once or twice a month anyways, so it’s not like I’m prepping for a run through the tournament circuit.  Play what you love and enjoy! 

Scythian 

 

 

[Malakree]

3 hours ago, Scythian said:

Sadly, the trog army concept is not competitively very viable. Our gaps are so pronounced and our deficits so severe that playing them seems only appropriate from an artistic or aesthetic point of view.  I’m playing my trog army because the paint job I’ve chosen is artistically appealing to both my opponent and myself. Sometimes, we must chose the armies and models we want to play rather than the crush and kill army we know we should play. At least if we want to compete that is. Case in point...

Aye I was expressing my frustration at how close the troggherd came to being good.

Personally I'll be running a mixed army rather than pure because I do want to be competitive. I actually really rate the troggboss, with a trait+artefact combo he becomes an absolute beast.

I also think that fellwater and rockguts troggs are solid for their price point so make up a great elite component alongside the grot hordes.

I will probably still use the troggherd just for the moonface mommet but I'm British and we like to complain! 😁

[Skabnoze]

@Malakree I understand your frustration, but I don't think GW is designing these sub-factions with the precise goal of equality for top-level tournament play.  I expect that they don't feel that they need to put every force, especially sub factions, on the same potential footing for that specific niche of the player-base.  But I get your personal opinion.

[Scythian]

3 hours ago, Malakree said:

Aye I was expressing my frustration at how close the troggherd came to being good.

Personally I'll be running a mixed army rather than pure because I do want to be competitive. I actually really rate the troggboss, with a trait+artefact combo he becomes an absolute beast.

I also think that fellwater and rockguts troggs are solid for their price point so make up a great elite component alongside the grot hordes.

I will probably still use the troggherd just for the moonface mommet but I'm British and we like to complain! 😁

I love my trog army! I knew what I was getting into. 👍