AoS2 - Dankhold Troggoth Discussion

[Dankboss]

2 minutes ago, Tali182 said:

Its good to have choices I guess, 

If what I hear is true all current saves that are versions of wards will become the new ward so the hide will be the same as the amulet, but we will see if that is correct

They're both wards, but the Amulet is against both MWs and Wounds while Hide is just MWs. I highly highly doubt they'd faq all wards to be the same, or StoD stonks are going to hit the stratosphere.

[Tali182]

6 minutes ago, Dankboss said:

They're both wards, but the Amulet is against both MWs and Wounds while Hide is just MWs. I highly highly doubt they'd faq all wards to be the same, or StoD stonks are going to hit the stratosphere.

Probably,  but the amulet is just listed as a 5+ ward save, it does not even mention wound or mortal wound, and the ward rule does not mention mortal wounds when describing what it is, but then says ward saves can be used against MWs later on in the text, so there is some uncertainty about it.  so we play the waiting game for the FAQs etc

"14.3 WARDS Some abilities allow you to roll a dice to negate a wound before it is allocated to a model. Abilities of this type are referred to as wards, and the dice roll is referred to as a ward roll. Up to 1 ward roll can be made for each wound or mortal wound before it is allocated to the model in question. If the ward roll is successful, the wound or mortal wound is negated and has no effect on the model."

[Dankboss]

Just now, Tali182 said:

Probably,  but the amulet is just listed as a 5+ ward save, it does not even mention wound or mortal wound, and the ward rule does not mention mortal wounds when describing what it is, but then says ward saves can be used against MWs later on in the text, so there is some uncertainty about it.  so we play the waiting game for the FAQs etc

"14.3 WARDS Some abilities allow you to roll a dice to negate a wound before it is allocated to a model. Abilities of this type are referred to as wards, and the dice roll is referred to as a ward roll. Up to 1 ward roll can be made for each wound or mortal wound before it is allocated to the model in question. If the ward roll is successful, the wound or mortal wound is negated and has no effect on the model."

I think what we'll see is Ward be used for when they want to negate both, and whatever unique rules currently exist for MW only wards. I doubt the latter is going away, or if it is it'll take an extremely long time to phase them out and rebalance.

[Ganigumo]

On 6/14/2021 at 5:34 AM, Dankboss said:

So with the new rules of 3.0, I'm considering if I still want to take Glogg's Megamob; without the battalion what it gives is a forced cp generation command trait, a forced 5+ mortal ward (both of which have better generic counterparts), +1 to regen roles which are mostly meh, and the 4+ spell ward which is the best part of that's left.

Going back to generic allegiance still lets you use the Loonshrine, and gives you access back to command traits and artefacts. I'm tempted to return to Battle Troggboss with the new rules, as this edition you can get more CP which reduces the need for the 4+ generation.

Universal access to +1 to hit makes a massive difference, 6 rockguts hitting on 2s is scary as hell. It'll mostly be used instead of the Boss' reroll 1s unless i have lots of units fighting.

I will likely go +2 wounds and Amulet of Destiny for my Battle Troggboss. Support Troggboss is a bit boring. Finest Moment gives him +1 save and +1 to wound, coupled with +1 to hit will let him return to his old glory. Also, easy access to +1 save is important.

An alternative Battle Troggboss is Reroll damage dice trait and Manticore Venom or whatever it's called for +1 to wound.

I agree Glogg's megamob stonks are definitely down IMO.
BR:Kragnos Spoiler:

Spoiler

Just like Glogg himself in BR Kragnos 😭

the CP generation command trait has always been iffy, Loonskin is often more reliable anyways, and it also buffs your durability.
The mortal wound ward was useful for the Hag since her other artifact options were limited, but the new generic artifact is definitely better. I'll probably end up skipping the subfaction and running a troggboss with loonskin and a hag with the generic ward artifact if nothing else changes.

[Ganigumo]

duplicate post

Edited June 16, 2021 by Ganigumo
Duplicate post

[Tali182]

9 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

I agree Glogg's megamob stonks are definitely down IMO.
BR:Kragnos Spoiler:

  Reveal hidden contents

Just like Glogg himself in BR Kragnos 😭

the CP generation command trait has always been iffy, Loonskin is often more reliable anyways, and it also buffs your durability.
The mortal wound ward was useful for the Hag since her other artifact options were limited, but the new generic artifact is definitely better. I'll probably end up skipping the subfaction and running a troggboss with loonskin and a hag with the generic ward artifact if nothing else changes.

I am running under the assumption no hag in 3.0 either due to legends or points increases meaning I need to cut something

[Malakree]

18 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

the CP generation command trait has always been iffy, Loonskin is often more reliable anyways, and it also buffs your durability.
The mortal wound ward was useful for the Hag since her other artifact options were limited, but the new generic artifact is definitely better. I'll probably end up skipping the subfaction and running a troggboss with loonskin and a hag with the generic ward artifact if nothing else changes.

Imo the troggboss with grip gets a huge boost with the new coherency rules. Even more so when you consider that +1 save is now so much easier to get for a lot of factions.

The new stormcast look very smushable!

[Ganigumo]

8 hours ago, Tali182 said:

I am running under the assumption no hag in 3.0 either due to legends or points increases meaning I need to cut something

Hag probably won't move to legends, FW still sells it, generally it goes out of productions before it goes to legends. But yes points are probably going up as well.

6 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Imo the troggboss with grip gets a huge boost with the new coherency rules. Even more so when you consider that +1 save is now so much easier to get for a lot of factions.

The new stormcast look very smushable!

Yeah all grabbing attacks are great, and dankholds have the "good" version of the effect. 

[ShaneHobbes]

How's everyone feeling about the points that got released specifically for Troggoths? I'm pretty relieved Rockguts and Felwaters only went up 5. I still think Dankholds, Trogboss and regular, are too much even at the old price but it could have been a lot worse. 

[novakai]

biggest shame is no more 3 man Dankhold squads  

but no (few) change is probably good change atm, everything going up across the board probably makes up for the Dankholds being a bit expensive

since there no more battalions and the core battalion are free, it probably balances out in the end

[Tali182]

The GHB normally has FW points right?  Is the lack of FW points a sign all are going to legends?

[Malakree]

12 hours ago, novakai said:

biggest shame is no more 3 man Dankhold squads  

but no (few) change is probably good change atm, everything going up across the board probably makes up for the Dankholds being a bit expensive

since there no more battalions and the core battalion are free, it probably balances out in the end

Troggboss didn't go up at all and rockguts were are only 5 points extra. Relatively they did pretty damn well!

[ShaneHobbes]

Not gonna lie I want to try running a unit of 6 (maybe 9 for lolz) felwaters and move them up toward an enemy, vomit, and then sit there so I can then Unleash Hell on them when they charge me

[VoodooChileIRL]

15 minutes ago, ShaneHobbes said:

Not gonna lie I want to try running a unit of 6 (maybe 9 for lolz) felwaters and move them up toward an enemy, vomit, and then sit there so I can then Unleash Hell on them when they charge me

Oh man I hadn't even thought of Fellwaters and Unleash Hell. I might have to consider getting a few.

[novakai]

Vomit Over-watch sound hilarious but actually makes the Fellwater's short range attack actually more  useable considering that the neg 1 penalty for the attack just pushes to a 3+

[Ganigumo]

On 6/17/2021 at 10:01 PM, Tali182 said:

The GHB normally has FW points right?  Is the lack of FW points a sign all are going to legends?

It used to, but FW would always release their version of updated points after the ghb anyways and they weren't always the same.

On 6/17/2021 at 5:23 PM, novakai said:

biggest shame is no more 3 man Dankhold squads  

but no (few) change is probably good change atm, everything going up across the board probably makes up for the Dankholds being a bit expensive

since there no more battalions and the core battalion are free, it probably balances out in the end

The issue with dankhold's internal balance issues is they they're only about as effective as 3 rockguts/fellwaters but cost a chunk more. Maybe the new coherency helps with it thanks to their grabs but I'm skeptical.

Unleash hell fellwaters is great, and rockguts with all out defense and maybe a webspinner behind to give -1 to hit is going to be a nasty anvil.

[Tali182]

As we wait for FAQs etc I have been thinking about our (limited) options.

What do people think Mollog needs to become useable at the moment (175 points) playing around with my lists he seems to slot in nicely and I love the model (who wouldn't)

When you look at fellwaters who avg about 5 -1 2D wounds for 155 (plus shooting) so maybe 6 dmg on a 4+ save, maybe 2 more swings for Mollog would be enough giving an avg of maybe 6 MWs?

No real proper calculations done, pure wish listing here. Not even really looking at making him an auto pick, just good enough to be not be automatically disregarded.

[Injuryprone]

Thoughts on using shaman on arachnarok, webspinner shaman, or wardokks in our lists?

So far I'm running:

Troggboss

Fungoid

Rockgut x 6

Fellwater x 3

Fellwater x 3

I was thinking of throwing in another fungoid, a shaman on arachnarok, a webspinner shaman, and maybe a wardokk to eat up some points without having to build more identical troggs.  Past that point maybe just spam fellwaters and throw in an endless spell to hit 2k.

[Sinfullyvannila]

On 6/20/2021 at 8:55 AM, Ganigumo said:

It used to, but FW would always release their version of updated points after the ghb anyways and they weren't always the same.

The issue with dankhold's internal balance issues is they they're only about as effective as 3 rockguts/fellwaters but cost a chunk more. Maybe the new coherency helps with it thanks to their grabs but I'm skeptical.

Unleash hell fellwaters is great, and rockguts with all out defense and maybe a webspinner behind to give -1 to hit is going to be a nasty anvil.

There's not really a lot we can do with 40 points anymore since our spells went up, so he should be a fairly safe replacement if we have the extra point. Probably never worth taking a second one though because then youre using up an extra 80 points and then theyre competing with the Madcap shaman who can pump out a rend with his artifact.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Sinfullyvannila

[Dankboss]

My first Gitz list for 3.0. Warscroll builder didn't seem to want to export to pdf so a screenshot will do. I'm feeling pretty hopeful about this one. I'm not taking Glogg's anymore as the main appeal is gone and the Loonshrine buff is separate. I'd rather have a Troggboss that can get stuck in than +1 to regen and a spell save. Heroic Recovery can makeup for the regen loss.

Smash-Boss is back! And actually better since he's not relying on Ghyrstrike to get +1 to hit and wound.

Normally I take Fellwaters in 3s, but a 6 man can utilize Unleash Hell way better and is a pretty big charge deterrent.

One thing I did notice is that Alpha Trogg might be a decent pick as it improves Heroic Recovery while buffing bravery, and with IP being once per turn it's useful.

Initially I was going to shelve my Gitz for the time being as the changes in 3.0 seemed a bit radical for Gitz but on second thoughts I think this list might end up being stronger than before. Troggs hitting on 2s with All out Attack is scary.

[Tali182]

16 hours ago, Dankboss said:

My first Gitz list for 3.0.

Similar idea to the list I will be paying tomorrow.  Though My boss looses some survivability to become a wizard and then take flaming weapon to give him +1 damage

Though I also want to try out endless spells so I am including the moon 

Leaders
Dankhold Troggboss (250) in Battle Regiment
- General
- Command Trait: Mighty Blow
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider (295) in Warlord
- Lore of the Spiderfangs: Sneaky Distraction
Madcap Shaman (80) in Warlord
- Artefact: Moonface Mommet
- Lore of the Moonclans: Itchy Nuisance
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (95)
- Lore of the Moonclans: Itchy Nuisance

Battleline
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (155) in Warlord
6 x Fellwater Troggoths (310) in Battle Regiment
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (290) in Battle Regiment
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (290) in Battle Regiment
- Reinforced x 1
20 x Stabbas (150)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
- 3x Barbed Nets
- 1x Moonclan Flag Bearers
- 1x Badmoon Icon Bearers

Endless Spells & Invocations
Malevolent Moon (80)

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 138
 

[Dankboss]

Just played my first game of 3.0 with my Troggs vs Legion of the First Prince. I played the new Shifting Objectives to start off simple. Game ended 25-24 in my favor; the new Battle Tactics is a great addition and made the game really interesting. Despite smashing a lot of his army, by being able to achieve Battle Tactics his hold and control playstyle was able to keep up despite losses. Battleboss defeated a Bloodthirster in mostly single combat (a lone rockgut contributed nothing); the thirster had reroll saves too.

The ability to react to your enemy on their turn is an amazing addition. Despite being a slow game, since it was our first, I think 3.0 is going to be excellent.

Be'lakor is the biggest ****** to kill and I nearly did, but Heroic Recovery kept him in it.

[Tali182]

6 hours ago, Dankboss said:

 Battleboss defeated a Bloodthirster in mostly single combat (a lone rockgut contributed nothing); the thirster had reroll saves too.

Nice! Mine whiffed completely and did 0 damage to some 'ardboys then died immediately 😅

But despite that I loved my first go at 3.0 the troggs seem to benefit alot from all the new command abilities. I can see some good potential.

Also using the moonshrine to garrison 20 stabbas so they are all on the objective and a bit harder to kill was nice, though you really need to protect it from monsters as a Maw Krusha blew mine up early in the game which cost me.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Tali182
spelling

[Dankboss]

5 hours ago, Tali182 said:

Nice! Mine whiffed completely and did 0 damage to some 'ardboys then died immediately 😅

But despite that I loved my first go at 3.0 the troggs seem to benefit alot from all the new command abilities. I can see some good potential.

Also using the moonshrine to garrison 20 stabbas so they are all on the objective and a bit harder to kill was nice, though you really need to protect it from monsters as a Maw Krusha blew mine up early in the game which cost me.

He whiffed with All out Attack and/ or Finest Hour? Those are what makes him Battleboss again.

Edit: I just read you run a different boss

Edited July 12, 2021 by Dankboss

[Tali182]

17 hours ago, Dankboss said:

He whiffed with All out Attack and/ or Finest Hour? Those are what makes him Battleboss again.

Edit: I just read you run a different boss

haha yep, rolled a 1 for crushing grip, between hits and wound rolls failed 3 swings and then the ironjaws saved on the one that did get through.  Was just a ridiculously bad sequence of rolls, I in no way believe that it was what would normally happen 😅

I  also did end up taking Loonskin on him rather then mighty blow and I found the extra command point each turn very valuable.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Tali182